2010.06.28 - Kyron's Dad files for divorce and restraining order

[ami]

What? I'm not sure I follow. The drinking is one of the reason's Kaine is using in his depo to say that TH needs a psych eval, before she can receive a supervised visit with her child, is it not?

Two different things. The drinking that he knew about didn't signify to Kaine that she was a potential murderer. That's the Kyron case. He knew about the drinking, but he didn't suspect Terri would harm Kyron, didn't see any warning signs of murder or abduction.

Now there's baby K to consider. The drinking, the sexting, the DUI, the murder for hire and his suspicion that she killed his son in front of the baby are all lines of evidence that Terri should not be allowed visitation of baby K.

 

[Trt]

What? I'm not sure I follow. The drinking is one of the reason's Kaine is using in his depo to say that TH needs a psych eval, before she can receive a supervised visit with her child, is it not?

Using knowledge that he has now to ensure the continued safety of his daughter is not the same as seeing "some emotional distress" as a sign that she would disappear Kyron. The statements posted where in response to whether or not there was any indication that Terri might have done something to Kyron, not whether or not he thought that her behavior was a problem. He clearly states that there WERE some problems(as did Desiree), but nothing to the extent that EITHER of them thought that Kyron (or K or J) would be in any risk for physical harm by Terri. JMO

 

[Jo in Calif]

What I would like to see and I'm sure as would most, is an affidavit from Terri, not a declaration from her divorce attorney.
I want to see Terri come out with guns a blazin.
I want her to to say all these allegations are a load of carp, after all, there is no evidence of anything being true, she hasn't been arrested or been named a POI, how could there be evidence against her, she's totally innocent.
What is she afraid of , she's fighting for her rights as a mother, she wants to have visitation with her child, she's innocent, therefore no evidence to prove otherwise.
Call Kaine on his bluff, Terri, your innocent, you know Kaine has nothing, fight for your baby.

 

[germaine]

Also, this quote doesn't indicate if Kaine meant 'sometimes if I tried to help by putting K to bed at 830pm before she fell asleep on the couch with her drunk Mom, the Mom fought with me about it'

... or if he meant....

'sometimes if I woke up at 1am to find K playing in front of the TV and mom passed out drunk, and tried to put K in her bed, her Mom would wake up and fight with me about it'.

Right, it also isn't clear as to whether sometimes "terri became combative" or whether kaine only sometimes tried to put baby to bed, imo. I think the former is the correct reading. Kaine tried to put baby to bed frequently, and on some of those occasions terri became combative" -- presumably on those occasions when she was conscious :angel:

 

[wvjules]

Using knowledge that he has now to ensure the continued safety of his daughter is not the same as seeing "some emotional distress" as a sign that she would disappear Kyron. The statements posted where in response to whether or not there was any indication that Terri might have done something to Kyron, not whether or not he thought that her behavior was a problem. He clearly states that there WERE some problems(as did Desiree), but nothing to the extent that EITHER of them thought that Kyron (or K or J) would be in any risk for physical harm by Terri. JMO

So he just now knows that he was seeing TH passing out drunk nightly and baby K up at 1am? I'm confused.

 

[cluciano63]

I think it is possible Terri was drunk when she ran into Andrea L. in the store; didn't Andrea say she acted oddly, different from her norm? Maybe she had been drinking. Maybe she had done something with Kyron and now does not remember where he is. Or maybe she was drinking and driving with the baby that day and pulled off someplace to snooze it off during the missing 90 minutes.

Almost all of us know more than we'd probably like about alcoholism; my little sister's death was due in part to alcohol abuse. She drank from a coffee mug all day long, little sips, and was never really sober.

Kaine can't know what Terri did once he left the house for work. No one can, except perhaps Kyron...

 

[Trt]

So he just now knows that he was seeing TH passing out drunk nightly and baby K up at 1am? I'm confused.

As I've posted previously, it is my opinion using this affadavit as well as other statements from Kaine, that he was under the impression that something other than alcohol was causing Terri to be "passed out."

 

[Trt]

I think it is possible Terri was drunk when she ran into Andrea L. in the store; didn't Andrea say she acted oddly, different from her norm? Maybe she had been drinking. Maybe she had done something with Kyron and now does not remember where he is. Or maybe she was drinking and driving with the baby that day and pulled off someplace to snooze it off during the missing 90 minutes.

Almost all of us know more than we'd probably like about alcoholism; my little sister's death was due in part to alcohol abuse. She drank from a coffee mug all day long, little sips, and was never really sober.

Kaine can't know what Terri did once he left the house for work. No one can, except perhaps Kyron...

Andrea said just the opposite...that Terri acted normally, that she did not notice anything outside of the norm, other than the fact that TH chose to show her a picture of Kyron while holding a sick baby in her arms.

 

[krowdkat]

Andrea said just the opposite...that Terri acted normally, that she did not notice anything outside of the norm, other than the fact that TH chose to show her a picture of Kyron while holding a sick baby in her arms.

And that that was the longest convo Andrea had ever had with TH.

 

[redkatrampant]

I am gonna put my 2 cents in again. I speak from some experience as a guardian ad litem. There are so many factors that could be at play here. I of course have made no secret of the fact that I think TH is guilty as sin.
I do have to say though that you cannot make any judgments about this situation unless we know the facts. How often was she really drinking? Was this in fact an every night occurrence? - the stumbling around/having Baby K up-
Was he drinking too? What did he do to stop situation?
I just can't help but feel that there is more to this.


How many of us have had drinks while our kids were asleep? How many of us have taken meds that knock us out?


moooooooooo

 

[eyes4crime]

As I've posted previously, it is my opinion using this affadavit as well as other statements from Kaine, that he was under the impression that something other than alcohol was causing Terri to be "passed out."

Do you mean another addiction of some kind? Many times addictions come in groups - nicotine, caffeine, alcohol, opiates...where there is one, another is likely. moo mho

 

[eyes4crime]

Well, we've read that after drunk driving with her son in the car, she was made to attend victim impact statements (paraphrased). And Kaine has stated he thought things were getting better. That they'd recently talked and he though they were headed down a better path. I don't know if that was in reference to her depression or her addiction or just their marital problems in general.

ami, A DUI with her son in the car was in 2005, and we heard things got better. Victim impact statements do not treat or cure an alcoholic. Since 2005, Kaine has married Terri and a child was born.

Now 5 months after Kyron has gone missing we are privy to following information:

Originally Posted by BeanE View Post
Posting for reference.

6. It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e., slurring speech, staggering gait, etc. several nights a week. Often, Respondent would pass out on the couch around 7:00 or 8:00p.m. after drinking heavily and would wake up on and off for the rest of the night. Sometimes K would be up with Respondent rather than on a schedule. Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with K. Respondent would typically be passed out from heavily drinking. K would be up past midnight playing and/or watching tv until I tried to intervene. Sometimes if I tried to help by putting K to bed, Respondent would become verbally combative and seem offended.

7. It was common to find K up and awake at 1:00 a.m. while Respondent was asleep from alcohol.

Kaine's deposition PDF pages 4 and 5, items 6 and 7:
http://www.kptv.com/download/2010/1026/25509272.pdf

Can't imagine why anyone who cares at all about Terri would allow her despicable behavior to continue, especially since she was caring for and around children. moo mho

Now that Terri is not around her children, sure hope she is using her time wisely and getting the help she needs. Hope she has been through an inpatient detox and secured treatment on an outpatient basis. moo mho

 

[SurfieTX]

ami, A DUI with her son in the car was in 2005, and we heard things got better. Victim impact statements do not treat or cure an alcoholic. Since 2005, Kaine has married Terri and a child was born.

Now 5 months after Kyron has gone missing we are privy to following information:

Originally Posted by BeanE View Post
Posting for reference.

6. It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e., slurring speech, staggering gait, etc. several nights a week. Often, Respondent would pass out on the couch around 7:00 or 8:00p.m. after drinking heavily and would wake up on and off for the rest of the night. Sometimes K would be up with Respondent rather than on a schedule. Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with K. Respondent would typically be passed out from heavily drinking. K would be up past midnight playing and/or watching tv until I tried to intervene. Sometimes if I tried to help by putting K to bed, Respondent would become verbally combative and seem offended.

7. It was common to find K up and awake at 1:00 a.m. while Respondent was asleep from alcohol.

Kaine's deposition PDF pages 4 and 5, items 6 and 7:
http://www.kptv.com/download/2010/1026/25509272.pdf

Can't imagine why anyone who cares at all about Terri would allow her despicable behavior to continue, especially since she was caring for and around children. moo mho

Now that Terri is not around her children, sure hope she is using her time wisely and getting the help she needs. Hope she has been through an inpatient detox and secured treatment on an outpatient basis. moo mho

Maybe he didn't care about her anymore and was planning to divorce her. The fact that she was sleeping on the couch regularly says volumes to me.

 

[eyes4crime]

Maybe he didn't care about her anymore and was planning to divorce her. The fact that she was sleeping on the couch regularly says volumes to me.

Sometimes the secondary gain will trump common sense. Not saying that's true in this case, not bashing, but is a possibility. I don't consider trying to understand a person's behavior as bashing. moo mo

 

[eyes4crime]

How does someone who is drunk every night methodically plot a murder for months on end? In my experience addicts are careless, hardly up to fooling LE, FBI, CARD Teams, etc. Unbelievable!

 

[pufnstuf]

How does someone who is drunk every night methodically plot a murder for months on end? In my experience addicts are careless, hardly up to fooling LE, FBI, CARD Teams, etc. Unbelievable!

Obviously she hasn't fooled them very well, if probable cause exists to arrest her for Kyron's disappearance.

Just because she hasn't been charged yet doesn't mean it's not coming. And it certainly doesn't mean that she's fooled anyone, except for possibly the scant crew of defenders who populate various corners of the internet.

 

[eyes4crime]

Obviously she hasn't fooled them very well, if probable cause exists to arrest her for Kyron's disappearance.

Just because she hasn't been charged yet doesn't mean it's not coming. And it certainly doesn't mean that she's fooled anyone, except for possibly the scant crew of defenders who populate various corners of the internet.

Guess I missed that there was probable cause for an arrest - sorry!

As for her 'crew' of defenders, I don't know anything about them. I do know there are many, myself included, who want and need more evidence before indicting her for 1st degree murder. I, for one, simply don't know for sure that she is a murderous psychopath. Just a little bit more info and at least one fact would be much appreciated. moo mhoo

 

[gitana1]

BBM
What was taking place in this household is extremely sad, dangerous, and ladened with apathy! Terri had three beautiful children in her care, did anyone try to get her help? How about ultimatums forcing her to seek help? Or was her disease overlooked because she was surrounded by enablers, people in denial, fearful, too busy, uncaring or too removed to seek options? moo

I know there are plenty of people who think that addictions are character flaws and see them as weakness, poor character, and intentional. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I happen to agree with medical science/research that it is a disease of the brain and in no way represents a flawed human being. moo mho
For me, and me alone, I see addictions as a disease, a medical disease that, as of yet, has no real treatment (AA is the only tx I know of), much less a cure. Here are a few tidbits of info regarding alcoholism:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/alcoholism.html

For most adults, moderate alcohol use is not harmful. However, nearly 17.6 million adults in the United States are alcoholics or have alcohol problems. Alcoholism is a disease with four main...*snip*

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CXH/is_2_23/ai_59246569/

On any given day, more than 700,000 people in the United States receive alcoholism treatment in either inpatient or outpatient settings. For many of those patients, detoxification--with or without pharmacotherapy--is the first step of treatment. *snip*

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/alcoholic-moms-resource-guide-info/story?id=10501667

From dumping their stash of empty liquor bottles to hiding morning glasses of wine in coffee mugs, four mothers revealed to "20/20" the intimate and destructive details of their addiction to alcohol. *snip*


The above information isn't to excuse Terri in any way, it's to point out how devastating and prevalent the disease of alcoholism is.

So Terri is an alcoholic. She joins another 17 million people in the United States with the same addiction. Millions more if you add in addictions to Vicodin, Oxycontin, and other opiates, all of which are legal and very available to the addict. Addiction to heroin is not much different except it's illegal.

"On any given day over 700,000 people are treated for alcoholism - the first step is usually to detox either as an inpatient or outpatient."

Terri had in her care, 3 beautiful children, so I'm wondering why her disease went unnoticed, unattended, and or undiagnosed? Was everyone in denial? Why no family intervention? Certainly there was insurance for outpatient/inpatient treatment. Did anyone who cared about Terri consult an addiction specialist to seek options for the family? Anyone around to suggest AA meetings? Anyone point out the devastating effects her drinking had on the children/family? Now I'm wondering if Terri turned to sexual exploitation of herself when drunk, such as in the sexting? moo mho

Terri was basically destroying herself before everyone's eyes - where were her parents, friends, her husband? Why did this woman go without help for so long and than conveniently cast to the media as a fistful of garbage who wistfully plodded through life without a care in the world? All just my opinions and that kind of stuff moo mho

I have a very dear friend who happens to live in the house right behind mine. I can walk to his front door in a couple of steps and I see him almost daily. He is a heroin addict. He's also one of the nicest, sweetest and smartest people I know. Watching him battling his addiction over the years has been very painful for all of us who love him. It's heartbreaking. He has gone to a six month rehab, a three month rehab, been on methadone, done a week long detox, gone on Seboxin, and has attended AA or NA meetings. I watch as he slips from sobriety to a beer here and there, to some pot and then pain killers and back to the heroin. Sometimes it takes months and months after that first beer to get to using heroin again, sometimes days. Over the years, he has struggled so hard. He got a BA degree during this struggle and completed all the work for his master's but another spin into drug use derailed his ability to get the actual degree for his masters. I and all of his friends, and he has a lot of very good friends, have done everything we can to try to help him. We talk, we plead, we watch out for him, we reason, we cry, even yell (that last one is me). Last night a friend came over to talk to me and another friend about the situation. Our buddy is back on the "yayo". What can we do now? I asked.
The bottom line is really it's not up to us. Nothing we can do will help. Ultimately, the addict is responsible for their own sobriety or lack thereof.
And you know, these things do not emerge out of nowhere, over night. I have a lot of experience with alcoholism and drug addiction aside from my dear friend, much of it in my own family. I know there are different levels of addiction and it sometimes takes a while for the addict's loved ones to determine that things have spun out of control. Sometimes it takes years to figure out what's happening. Sometimes it takes other people to point it out, or a separation and then in retrospect, the full significance of the addiction becomes apparent.
I am surprised that some feel that those who loved TH should have been taking care of things and dealing with the problem for TH as if she was the poor sick person neglected by them, with no responsibility for her own recovery. Those living with addicts deal with the addict the best they can, sometimes not even knowing what they're dealing with until a long time has passed.
What was KH supposed to do? "Uh oh, TH is passing out on the couch a lot at night and getting drunk. She doesn't seem to have the baby on a schedule. Let me grab the kids out of here and quickly do an intervention!" That may work on t.v. but in the real world, it doesn't. Not in my experience.
I'll add that had he done that, TH could have filed for disso and custody and likely won primary custody. It is very hard to prove someone is an alcoholic and wrest custody from them, even if they have a past DUI, especially when that someone is the mother of an infant. There is no hair follicle test for alcohol. It's he said she said and in my practice, I have known alcoholics and drug users who can hold off long enough to get through any custody evaluation. After all is said and done, they get right back to where they were before once the coast is clear. In such a case, KH would have had to sit there knowing he's not there every night to make sure his baby is okay. No, staying in the house and trying to monitor the situation is often the best course of action when dealing with such people. At least Kaine was there. He could make sure his kids were all right on a daily basis.
And I venture to guess Kaine would have stayed right there, hoping things would change, trying to get her to stop, all the while, possibly due to shame, maintaining the facade that all was okay at home, for years, perhaps, if not for the sudden disappearance of his child. What one does about the problems their spouse may have or how they may think about their spouse, before and after a separation, are usually very different. Add a missing child and the belief that the ex had something to do with that disappearance and the difference in the behaviors they can tolerate becomes all the more greater. IMO.
In the end, there may have been more KH could have done to better handle what he now says was occurring but when you're actually in such a situation, that's easier said than done. It's not always easy to know what to do or to know the extent of the problem and once you do know, there's often nothing you can do unless the addict wants to stop. TH, in the end, was the only person who could have fully recognized her problem and taken the steps to fix it. Assuming, of course, that all of what has been said is true.

 

[gitana1]

What? I'm not sure I follow. The drinking is one of the reason's Kaine is using in his depo to say that TH needs a psych eval, before she can receive a supervised visit with her child, is it not?

I think the harm Trt is speaking about is murder. When Kaine gave the interview being discussed, the question was essentially whether there were any problems that would lead him to believe TH was capable of something like murder or disappearing a child. Answering, "well, I saw her get drunk a lot and she didn't have the baby on a good schedule" would not be a logical answer to that question. It is a logical statement to make though, when talking about one of the reasons visitation by the person KH thinks caused harm to Kyron, would not be wise at this moment.

 

[eyes4crime]

gitana1
You said: I am surprised that some feel that those who loved TH should have been taking care of things and dealing with the problem for TH as if she was the poor sick person neglected by them, with no responsibility for her own recovery. * respectfully snipped for space*

Who is saying everyone should have taken care of her illness? Certainly not me? Nobody can take care of a person's illness except the person. moo

She IS sick! There is absolutely no question in my mind that addiction is a disease! none whatsoever!

It is really terrible to stand by and watch a person destroy themselves, sorry you had to do that with your friend and family. HOWEVER, when there are children involved and it's all under one roof with two grown adults in charge, there is NO justification for not seeking help. As her husband, Kaine could have taken the children out of the home, called LE, reported her to DCFS, or kicked her out. I know spouses that have admitted their loved one to an inpatient treatment center. There is no fooling around with an addict, they must know that you mean what you say and will follow through. You do what it takes to keep your children safe and nothing less. moo mho

The most manipulative people I've ever been around are addicts, they are obsessed with obtaining their next drink or drug for the next rendezvous. Drug seeking behavior is what gets them their next bottle, pill, snort, or injection. They will create illness upon illness to get the drug they want and need. It's a horrible, horrible, life for everyone, especially the loved ones. moo mho

Most hard core alcoholics and addicts don't stop the drug on their own. The pain of withdrawal, the seizures, the fear, is too great. People have a choice, they can let someone hit bottom, whatever that may be for the person, let the person destroy themselves, turn the other way, or expend the energy to provide options. They can leave or stay, they can care or not care. They can live in fear and do nothing or they can seek help. Under no circumstances should a significant other stay and subject young, vulnerable children to the life of an addict who refuses treatment. It can, and usually does, end in disaster. moo mho