2010.06.30 Andrea Lyon is off the Dream Team! She quits!

[Zoe Bogart]

BBM

did he REALLY?? it's "wayside", man, "wayside"!

eta or does he need to tuck his freudian slip back in???

I think that was more of a writer's error than the speaker's error.

 

[RR0004]

While I know everyone would love to see this happen, and RH may want it too, I think it would just make for some rather huge issues for KC to get a new trial if it happened. First, RH is not DP qualified, we already have JB sitting second chair, I think the Judge would prefer this highly publicized capital murder case not have another second chair. Second, RH has publicly outed JB (and CM come to think of it) in rather not so tactful ways. That is an immediate conflict. If counsel cannot get along, a new trial could be an outcome. There is no sharing between these two, no professional relationship that can build or be sustained.

At any rate, I do hope that another DP qualified is appointed. Not sure it will happen, but hope it does. They need some strong characters to get KC into reality.

...especially as their one and only DP attorney (CM) had a hard time believing Casey was innocent.

 

[beach]

JMO. But I don't think CM had anything to do with this. I think he was asked, well in advance to join the team, just so that AL could run free. Again, just my opinion.

I agree. Completely.

I'd like to get both of your takes on this, because I respect both of your opinions greatly.


In my head (which can be a pretty jumbled, scary place :angel, I think back to the hearing where the nearly $375k in defense funds & the ABC deal was exposed during the tight questioning by JA. Leaving everyone (except the defense :innocent more than a tad befuddled. Then comes the motion to declare KC indigent. I am thinking about that time is when AL put JB on notice - sort of a "heh...we might need to have a chat and reconsider a few things regarding these strict JAC regulations you Floridians are restricted by". Shortly after that conversation -- TADA! Enter Cheney Mason.


Anyway, that is sort of what I picture in my imagination.

 

[21merc7]

beach2yall;

I think it began before that, but the no money for me, well I'm not pro bono anymore, was the match that broke the camel's back.

ETA: Sneaking in from work bites. Ok, I think she saw the ship was sunk shortly after she started. Some of it is the case as it is, some of it is her own personal issues/job/book failure (this ship sunk that boat), some of it may be health, but she knew the ship could not sail.

JMO as usual.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Ironically, AL published this today:

Fighting the Death Penalty: Hope for Change

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrea-lyon/fighting-the-death-penalt_b_630975.html

AL makes a lot of good arguments in the above article as to why she's against the death penalty.
She sounds like a very nice person imo.
She has the right to believe what she believes and I respect her for trying to do something about it.

No matter how KC's trial turns out, I would not want to be the one giving her (or anybody) the lethal injection.
So how can I be for the death penalty?

 

[Aedrys]

I think Andrea put the cart before the horse here. Either JB schmoozed her over in the beginning to get her to join, or she really thought that this would be a great add on to her career. And that's what it's about. She may think in her head she's the "Angel of Death Row", but if I were facing the death penalty, she is the last person I would call to help me.

Honestly, I have never liked her. She disrespects everyone around her including the legal system if they don't see things her way or are just dumb jury members, has an "I'm right and everyone else is just WRONG" attitude, and I can see her clashing with JB just because you have two big honking egos there with neither willing to budge an inch for the other.

At least we don't have to hear crazy things come out of her mouth anymore (remember the statement about the sex toys?), or see her do things like handcuff herself or be theatrical in the courtroom. I was NEVER looking forward to that. And the matching mother daughter wardrobes...let's just say it'll be nice to take the focus off of that onto the case at trial.

Andrea was totally using Casey to her own egotistical end, and Casey never saw this, instead, she saw Andrea as another mother figure (highly ironic, if you ask me. She still continues to believe in people that are just using her). And look, another mother figure has abandoned Casey to her own problems. She thought she could escape Cindy for Andrea, but now all she has is Cindy. Makes me wonder if she's crying in her cell right now. Seriously, this is a big loss to her in more ways than one.

I wonder how Baez broke it to her. I wonder if she's mad at him that he couldn't make her stay. I bet she's not calling her defense team "her boys" anymore.

And I wonder about Andrea's book, that specifically mentioned Casey? Is a reprint going to happen now?

 

[JSR]

I'd like to get both of your takes on this, because I respect both of your opinions greatly.


In my head (which can be a pretty jumbled, scary place :angel, I think back to the hearing where the nearly $375k in defense funds & the ABC deal was exposed during the tight questioning by JA. Leaving everyone (except the defense :innocent more than a tad befuddled. Then comes the motion to declare KC indigent. I am thinking about that time is when AL put JB on notice - sort of a "heh...we might need to have a chat and reconsider a few things regarding these strict JAC regulations you Floridians are restricted by". Shortly after that conversation -- TADA! Enter Cheney Mason.


Anyway, that is sort of what I picture in my imagination.

The timeline of events do seem to raise suspicions. Honestly I think there were many factors in her leaving. I just happen to think that she didn't like the direction the case was going and there was nothing more she could do to change the direction JB wanted to go. But I also think the financial restrictions would be a perfect and ethical "out" for AL to take if she wanted to bail. As I know you're aware, bringing new counsel onto an ongoing case takes some time. And I think Mason might have been brought into the loop before that JAC hearing.
It seemed like to me the Judge gave them everything AL would need in regards to the penalty phase. She just couldn't go "first class". And AL doesn't seem like the person who would bail on a case to "save a life" unless she didn't think she could use the "road" she knew that would "save a life".
And for those who think she wanted to go all out and go "first class" then might consider that a law professor does NOT make much in comparison to a private litigator. With her experience as a private litigator she could be bringing in big dough. She obviously doesn't value the big bucks. She's where she is for a reason.
Don't get me wrong I think her practices are abhorrent. I'm not the kind of person who looks kindly upon abhorrent behavior, even if for a "just" cause and believes it's just a means to an end. Regardless of her practices I still think she's a very good attorney. She's good at what she does.
I'm not a DP opponent, I just don't believe it's warranted in all cases.

 

[beach]

The timeline of events do seem to raise suspicions. Honestly I think there were many factors in her leaving. I just happen to think that she didn't like the direction the case was going and there was nothing more she could do to change the direction JB wanted to go. But I also think the financial restrictions would be a perfect and ethical "out" for AL to take if she wanted to bail. As I know you're aware, bringing new counsel onto an ongoing case takes some time. And I think Mason might have been brought into the loop before that JAC hearing.
It seemed like to me the Judge gave them everything AL would need in regards to the penalty phase. She just couldn't go "first class". And AL doesn't seem like the person who would bail on a case to "save a life" unless she didn't think she could use the "road" she knew that would "save a life".
And for those who think she wanted to go all out and go "first class" then might consider that a law professor does NOT make much in comparison to a private litigator. With her experience as a private litigator she could be bringing in big dough. She obviously doesn't value the big bucks. She's where she is for a reason.
Don't get me wrong I think her practices are abhorrent. I'm not the kind of person who looks kindly upon abhorrent behavior, even if for a "just" cause and believes it's just a means to an end. Regardless of her practices I still think she's a very good attorney. She's good at what she does.
I'm not a DP opponent, I just don't believe it's warranted in all cases.

I give it to you - you've totally swayed me. I agree with every word.

I especially :bowdown: in re. your last 2 paragraphs!

I'm not sure we were so far apart anyway. I re-read my post and I really wasn't clear - I DO think AL put JB on notice far in advance of the actual JAC hearing. I was meaning to say when AL came to realize that the defense funds had dried up, she probably started researching what it would mean to them in re. funding. Happened upon the strict JAC regulations and knew it was a lost cause.

(Come to think of it - wasn't it CM questioning her at that prior hearing where she had to testify in re. defense funds? :waitasec: )

 

[TorisMom003]

Amazing to me how A Lyon can toot her own horn in an article she wrote yesterday knowing that she was quiting one of the most difficult to win death penalty cases that I have ever seen. So what in her article is really the truth? Why did she not bring up the fact that was she going to leave someone who is facing the death penalty while she was saying that what she does is not an easy job? To bad that a list of videos of her lectures was not included with that article. I suspect that most people would look at her differently if they knew how A Lyon was when she is not "making nice" to a jury or the public.

 

[Riley1833]

AL makes a lot of good arguments in the above article as to why she's against the death penalty.
She sounds like a very nice person imo.
She has the right to believe what she believes and I respect her for trying to do something about it.

No matter how KC's trial turns out, I would not want to be the one giving her (or anybody) the lethal injection.
So how can I be for the death penalty?

WbG, you have a right to your opinion. However, I will stand up and say I would gladly be the one to give KC that lethal injection. I do believe some people are just EVIL and nothing is going to make them any thing else. I wonder if Caylee had been your child and KC murdered her if would would still not want to be the one to put the needle in her??

 

[beach]

An FYI for those of you on this thread. Hope it is not OT, there is no info yet.


nums just posted in Today's News thread that an Emergency Hearing has been called for Friday afternoon @ 1:30 pm edt



THANK YOU nums!!!! :blowkiss:

 

[JSR]

An FYI for those of you on this thread. Hope it is not OT, there is no info yet.


nums just posted in Today's News thread that an Emergency Hearing has been called for Friday afternoon @ 1:30 pm edt



THANK YOU nums!!!! :blowkiss:

Hold on to your seats folks, we're in for a bumpy ride ...

 

[beach]

Hold on to your seats folks, we're in for a bumpy ride ...

nums just updated...


Motion Defendant's Emergency; to Appoint Special Magistrate During Inspection of Discovery with Expert Witnesses




So, I guess that would be OT now. :blushing:

 

[JSR]

I give it to you - you've totally swayed me. I agree with every word.

I especially :bowdown: in re. your last 2 paragraphs!

I'm not sure we were so far apart anyway. I re-read my post and I really wasn't clear - I DO think AL put JB on notice far in advance of the actual JAC hearing. I was meaning to say when AL came to realize that the defense funds had dried up, she probably started researching what it would mean to them in re. funding. Happened upon the strict JAC regulations and knew it was a lost cause.

(Come to think of it - wasn't it CM questioning her at that prior hearing where she had to testify in re. defense funds? :waitasec: )

Generally speaking Beach you and I rarely differ much in opinions

AL comes across who does her homework. I doubt she was blindsided by what went down in the JAC hearing.

 

[cyberborg]

I think AL performed some basic math.

1. She reviewed the evidence and testimony against KC together with the fact her DP motions were struck down (twice) and HHJP is strict.

2. She reviewed the profile and mitigating circumstances that came in from that on-going work on KC and the A's.

AL performed a risk assessment and ran the numbers and, as she said in one of her seminars ..... sometimes there is no hope and you just need to call a spade a spade and walk away. The odds were not even close!

I agree with those who feel AL used KC's indigency and financial challenges as a graceful exit to save face.

Exit stage left AL.

 

[RR0004]

ZsaZsa...no issue with you, but with that old saying!!


Sorry, but that is so out-of-line as a slap at teachers!!!!!!!!! I am not taking up for AL, but I am in daily contact with some pretty amazing teachers. I would feel cowardly and complicit if I did not point out that some sayings sound good, but are NOT true.

Bless you, Texas. I started out in law and took a right turn and became a teacher. Not that I didn't love law, I did...it's just that my heart belongs to children. Who knows one day I may combine the two. I've seen that statement a couple of times this week on WS. IMO, it's offensive and I really do appreciate you sticking up for (us) teachers.

 

[Snaz]

BBM

did he REALLY?? it's "wayside", man, "wayside"!

eta or does he need to tuck his freudian slip back in???

I don't know, of course, but I think it may be possible that BS did say "wayside," and whoever typed the article wrote "waste side" in error.

 

[Kentjbkent]

link to motion to withdraw

color me confused...:waitasec:

In paragraph 4 of her motion she states that "travel expenses for defense were denied" (in re. Indigency hearing). I could swear that i recalled judge perry approving these expenses ordering that there were to be no luxuries - even specified to fly "coach" and went so far as to suggest a couple of decent hotels e.g., the courtyard by marriott. Did i misunderstand??? :waitasec:


In re. Hornsby's opinion - i totally agree with him, with a couple of qualifiers. i think that al could not stand the ill-prepared and incompetency of jb. He is everyhing she is not. I doubt they could agree on the time of day. Seriously. I truthfully cannot imagine a more mismatched pair of attorneys. Then along comes cheney mason. Oh my. I imagine at first she had hope since he had so many years of experience and was also dp qualified. Lord have mercy. What an awakening she must have had. Lol he seems to have a bit of a chauvinistic air about him that probably bombed faster than a lead balloon with al. :innocent: Then the post 6/21 status hearing presser....'nuff said. I'm thinking if al had hopped a flight to antarctica it still wouldn't have been distant enough for her to dissociate herself from those two.


Now for those 'qualifers' i spoke of earlier -

the fact that the jac rate for the mitigation specialist was dropping to $40 per hour on july 1st and this motion was filed the day before, on june 30th, is more than a mere coincidence. Sorry. Just not buying that it was not a consideration. I don't think it was a huge deal.....just more icing on the cake, iykwim.

Also, i sincerely believe that depaul did play factor in her decision. I can certainly believe that the donations dropped drastically to her fund when it became public knowledge the huge % of dollars donated were going to fund this circus. So, i can buy that she probably was pressured to back away to help restore confidence and insure more money was rolling in.


One more thought - i know baez stated (para) "her work was primarily done". I could not disagree more. I do think she and jeanene have helped tremendously in re. Investigation of mitigating factors, however...andrea lyons' true strength seems to be selling that story in front of a jury during the penalty phase (should it come to a guilty verdict). In my wildest imagination, i cannot begin to see cheney mason having the same effect on a jury as andrea lyons.

exactly!

 

[Kentjbkent]

I'd like to get both of your takes on this, because I respect both of your opinions greatly.


In my head (which can be a pretty jumbled, scary place :angel, I think back to the hearing where the nearly $375k in defense funds & the ABC deal was exposed during the tight questioning by JA. Leaving everyone (except the defense :innocent more than a tad befuddled. Then comes the motion to declare KC indigent. I am thinking about that time is when AL put JB on notice - sort of a "heh...we might need to have a chat and reconsider a few things regarding these strict JAC regulations you Floridians are restricted by". Shortly after that conversation -- TADA! Enter Cheney Mason.


Anyway, that is sort of what I picture in my imagination.

That is a very good point, Beach2yall! I had forgotten about that hearing and how a lot of posters were commenting on that hearing thread that AL did not seem to carry the same air of confidence she normally does and almost appeared to be bumbling...maybe time to take a look back....THAT may have been the beginning to the end...

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I think Andrea put the cart before the horse here. Either JB schmoozed her over in the beginning to get her to join, or she really thought that this would be a great add on to her career. And that's what it's about. She may think in her head she's the "Angel of Death Row", but if I were facing the death penalty, she is the last person I would call to help me.

Honestly, I have never liked her. She disrespects everyone around her including the legal system if they don't see things her way or are just dumb jury members, has an "I'm right and everyone else is just WRONG" attitude, and I can see her clashing with JB just because you have two big honking egos there with neither willing to budge an inch for the other.

At least we don't have to hear crazy things come out of her mouth anymore (remember the statement about the sex toys?), or see her do things like handcuff herself or be theatrical in the courtroom. I was NEVER looking forward to that. And the matching mother daughter wardrobes...let's just say it'll be nice to take the focus off of that onto the case at trial.

Andrea was totally using Casey to her own egotistical end, and Casey never saw this, instead, she saw Andrea as another mother figure (highly ironic, if you ask me. She still continues to believe in people that are just using her). And look, another mother figure has abandoned Casey to her own problems. She thought she could escape Cindy for Andrea, but now all she has is Cindy. Makes me wonder if she's crying in her cell right now. Seriously, this is a big loss to her in more ways than one.

I wonder how Baez broke it to her. I wonder if she's mad at him that he couldn't make her stay. I bet she's not calling her defense team "her boys" anymore.

And I wonder about Andrea's book, that specifically mentioned Casey? Is a reprint going to happen now?

Yes things may go faster now that they don't have to work around her precious teaching schedule and 15 minute esoteric lectures to 'educate' the judge, and dozens of strategic yet worthless 'wear down the enemy' motions being filed. Who knows...maybe there will actually be some legal arguments made at some point!