2010.11.02 Elisa Baker's Letters (Discussion)

[watergirl]

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5974900/zahra_baker_case_i_found_zahra_dead.html

Ok. Latest letter was to a cousin. Thanks rbrnmw.

 

[Etilema]

Don't know where else to put this comment, but I think it could go on this thread, because EB's letters reveal or amplify her personality so much. I am thinking about a comment by the former neighbor, Kayla Rotenberry, that she suspected EB was jealous of Zahra, because of the attention AB gave to Zahra.

I really think EB might have been jealous of Zahra in general, because Zahra was everything EB was not. By her own description, EB was dark, shunned, judged, disliked. While we can all see that Zahra was shining bright, loved, admired, and appreciated. EB was angry, spiteful, violent, bitter. Everything we have seen and heard about Zahra indicates she was happy, loving, gentle, and sweet.

How EB must have resented Zahra!

All MOO.

 

[Etilema]

BBM - So what she is saying is her daughter's call to CPS made Zahra so sick that she found her dead? Cause that makes all the sense in the world! NOT!!

It *could* mean that if they hadn't been worried about CPS's reaction to finding Zahra dead, they wouldn't have tried to cover it up and do whatever they did "after the fact".

Yes, it's stupid, crazy, unbelievable, and out of touch with reality. But it just might be the "logic" she had in mind?

JMO

 

[JoeFromLB]

Number 1 thing I notice: TOTAL ABSENCE OF CONCERN FOR ZAHRA!

Number 2 thing I notice: No explanation for what happened to Zahra, the circumstances surrounding the ransom note, the 911 call or any of the evidence!

Number 3 thing I notice: Absence of the concept of reality

Number 4 thing I notice: Narcissistic personality disorder

Number 5 thing I notice: No remorse, sadness, regret, guilt....most people experience these things during trauma in their family(even when they have done absolutely nothing to cause the trauma). This might indicative of a psychopathic disorder.

Great post!

 

[docwho3]

Something struck me about the first set of letters Elisa sent out.
When I watched a show or two that had a female voice over read of an excerpt
of one letter. It was that part where she said that 'what he did after the fact was kind
of horrifying and that she was kinda afraid of him.'

Keeping in mind her goth leanings and 'dark love' sort of expressions, I think
she might have spoken it with a secretive smile and the tone would have been one
of pleased excitement. Her saying someone scares her is possibly
a high compliment in her mind.

It is just a thought and we may never know for sure one way or the other.
Once the defense atty's get done with her it will all be different.

 

[tsisqua]

Is there anything to prevent these letters from being used as evidence in court?

 

[Kimmer]

I think that EB & AB may have found her dead, but only after they had done God only knows what to her...Makes it kinda hard to call LE and let them know your daughter/stepdaughter was found dead in her room if her poor little body had bruises and who knows what else on her from the horrific abuse that she had received at your hands. This is my opinion as to why the Authorities were not called when she was found dead.

 

[DLT88]

Something struck me about the first set of letters Elisa sent out.
When I watched a show or two that had a female voice over read of an excerpt
of one letter. It was that part where she said that 'what he did after the fact was kind
of horrifying and that she was kinda afraid of him.'

Keeping in mind her goth leanings and 'dark love' sort of expressions, I think
she might have spoken it with a secretive smile and the tone would have been one
of pleased excitement. Her saying someone scares her is possibly
a high compliment in her mind.

It is just a thought and we may never know for sure one way or the other.
Once the defense atty's get done with her it will all be different.

I thought the same thing! She claims to LOVE the dark side and is on the same side as her demons, yet she's horrified by something she is claiming (I think maybe falsely) AB did? She claims to like stuff like that. What a hypocrite.

 

[LCoastMom]

It *could* mean that if they hadn't been worried about CPS's reaction to finding Zahra dead, they wouldn't have tried to cover it up and do whatever they did "after the fact".

Yes, it's stupid, crazy, unbelievable, and out of touch with reality. But it just might be the "logic" she had in mind?

JMO

Illogical logic so to speak - sure why not!

Etilema please don't take my snarkiness personally, it is the idiot Bakers, not you I am responding to - your comment makes as much sense as any in this turned upside down world we are watching.

Because we know it is next to impossible to get CPS to act in a case of blatant abuse - therefore we know if Zahra passed from natural causes they had nothing to fear.

I'm sure this all came about "after the fact" - trouble is I am equally sure they (one or both) are responsible for the "fact" that they felt they needed to cover up. They are despicable.

 

[mmmagique]

I think it means "we couldn't take her to the hospital because of the previous DSS records".

She says the "really" didn't kill her, which to me means didn't mean to kill here.

I think she hurt her much worse than she intended, and they couldn't take her for help because people wouldn't mind their own business and she had a record with DSS so her story at the hospital wouldn't be believed.

Totally warped rationalization of course but I think that is exactly what she means. Not her fault the kid is dead, she had cancer and could have died before, she didn't mean to kill her, if no one had called DSS she could have taken her to the hospital but that is not her fault it is theirs, and what she did wasn't suppose to kill her but what AB did afterwards, THAT was horrific.

She is a sociopath.

Could "we really didn't kill her" mean something different to someone who believes in and wants to be a vampire?

Just a thought I had.

 

[darlin gal]

Could "we really didn't kill her" mean something different to someone who believes in and wants to be a vampire?

Just a thought I had.

The goth and the vampire crap was just a 40 something attempt at trying to appear cool, hip and young.

Just pathetic and sad.

She wasn't a vampire/witch/goth anymore than some 12 year old twilight reader, with visions of Edward Cullen in their head. JMO

 

[Meagain]

Does ANYone know who exactly is in possession of the new letters? NG at least read them. They have them. Who else? And why are they not yet published?

Sooooo want to read them.

 

[Velouria]

Does ANYone know who exactly is in possession of the new letters? NG at least read them. They have them. Who else? And why are they not yet published?

Sooooo want to read them.

Meagain, NG's producer (Natisha Lance?) read the letters, but I don't think they actually have copies. The letters are still in the possession of AB's cousin(s) and have not been turned over to LE as of last night's broadcast.

The cousin's take (rather sympathetic if you ask me) on EB's letters should be available in the show transcript by now.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

LATEST IN SEARCH FOR ZAHRA: Officials talk about bone found in search of Zahra Baker


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Brigida Mack - bio l email

NEWTON, N.C. (WBTV) - WBTV has discovered letters allegedly written by Elisa Baker from her Catawba County jail cell.

In the handwritten letters, Baker discusses everything from Halloween being her favorite holiday to pinning the disappearance of her stepdaughter, Zahra, on her husband, Adam Baker.

Read the letters (note: these are large image files)
Letter 1: Page 1 | Page 2 | Page 3
Letter 2: Page 1 | Page 2

"He knows what happened to Zahra and yet I'm the one in here at least for now," Baker writes in the letters that also have spiders drawn on them and phrases like "Vamps Rule!" and "Be part of the freak show!"

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13433475

Thomas Thornburg says her writing shows the words of a very troubled person.

He said, "She's living in darkness. She calls it a friend, and she can't stay there, she has to surface."

Thomas Grogran runs a Charlotte company called the Forensic Document Laboratory.

According to Grogan, "She's very much into the moment. She's not one to think ahead or regard the consequences of her actions."

It's all amout ME, ME, Me....she is truly narcisistic and only feels sorry for herself. Barely a passing word on Zahra...she now is casting blame on AB, trying to distance herself from any acts against Zahra...Oh where is this precious child???

Where is Zahra??

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Handwriting Experts Analyze Alleged Jailhouse Letters From Elisa Baker
Meghan Packer Created: 11/3/2010 11:16:37 PM Updated: 11/4/2010 11:29:45 AM
Undated -- As investigators wait to see if a recovered bone belongs to 10 year-old Zahra Baker, the missing girl's stepmother remains in jail on an obstruction of justice charge. Elisa Baker admitted to writing a bogus ransom note.

WBTV in Charlotte obtained letters allegedly written by Elisa Baker from behind bars. The owners of a website, SerialKillersInk.net, said they started writing to Elisa Baker and she wrote back.

Handwriting experts analyzed the letters who said the writings give some interesting insight into Elisa Baker's personality.

"First of all we're seeing an individual who is unreliable," said Thomas Thornburg. He has spent decades analyzing handwriting in a number of well documented court cases, and is closely following developments in the search for Zarha. He said the words that are showing up on several websites as Elisa Baker's demonstrates that she has issues understanding reality.

"She is constantly dealing with issues of anger and temper," he said.

Thomas Grogan, who runs a company called the Forensic Document Laboratory, said, "Whatever feels good at the moment is what she does."

more
http://www.digtriad.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=150073&catid=57

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Handwriting Experts Analyze Alleged Jailhouse Letters From Elisa Baker
Meghan Packer Created: 11/3/2010 11:16:37 PM Updated: 11/4/2010 11:29:45 AM
Undated -- As investigators wait to see if a recovered bone belongs to 10 year-old Zahra Baker, the missing girl's stepmother remains in jail on an obstruction of justice charge. Elisa Baker admitted to writing a bogus ransom note.

WBTV in Charlotte obtained letters allegedly written by Elisa Baker from behind bars. The owners of a website, SerialKillersInk.net, said they started writing to Elisa Baker and she wrote back.

Handwriting experts analyzed the letters who said the writings give some interesting insight into Elisa Baker's personality.

"First of all we're seeing an individual who is unreliable," said Thomas Thornburg. He has spent decades analyzing handwriting in a number of well documented court cases, and is closely following developments in the search for Zarha. He said the words that are showing up on several websites as Elisa Baker's demonstrates that she has issues understanding reality.

"She is constantly dealing with issues of anger and temper," he said.

Thomas Grogan, who runs a company called the Forensic Document Laboratory, said, "Whatever feels good at the moment is what she does."

more
http://www.digtriad.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=150073&catid=57

BBM

I have always said this. Not just where EB is concerned, but also AB. They are childlike. And like children, they are ruled by impulse. They don't seem able or willing to think beyond those impulses toward eventual consequences. And I think you can see this clearly in this whole fire/abduction/missing scenario. It's not a well thought out plan. In fact, my personal feeling is that the plan didn't work because it was changed several times. The whole thing screams "panic!" to me. Think of it like 2 kids who have accidently set your house on fire while smoking cigarettes. They don't want Mom to know they were smoking, but now the house is on fire and they HAVE to do something. They create a story, on the fly, and hope it sticks. If some part of the story doesn't stick, they just switch gears. They make things up as they go along, in other words. There is no foresight to the plan, because they aren't concerned with the plan...they just want to make sure Mom doesn't know they were smoking. They never stopped to think that the smoking itself might lead them to where they now find themselve, and now they are frantic to try anything to cover their tracks.

MOO

 

[Herding Cats]

Does anyone else seem to think the name "Gein" is...well...fortuitious isn't quite the word. Whatever the negative connotation of fortuitious would be.

Ed Gein was a very famous serial killer in Wisconsin who died in 1986 (??I think). I don't think that Gein is a popular last name (but I don't know), and for this Gein to run a webbie about murder, and to have the last name seems...well...a bit too coincidental in my world.

I am totally NOT saying Gein has anything to do with Zahra whatsoever. Just thinking that if EB knew about Ed Gein's murderous history, and incredibly gruesome crimes, that this contact may not be such a random outreach as we think; rather, it may be a part of a darker picture of EB's mind, e.g. she now has a connection to a very brutal, infamous serial killer.

(JFYI, part of the character Jame Gumb, the killer in Silence of the Lambs, was taken from Gein's life - Gein tried to make clothes of skin...)

Just thinking aloud here. Ever since I read the name Gein, this connection has been bothering me. Any thoughts? Or am I reading waaaaaaaaaaay too much into this?

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[WhyaDuck?]

Does anyone else seem to think the name "Gein" is...well...fortuitious isn't quite the word. Whatever the negative connotation of fortuitious would be.

Ed Gein was a very famous serial killer in Wisconsin who died in 1986 (??I think). I don't think that Gein is a popular last name (but I don't know), and for this Gein to run a webbie about murder, and to have the last name seems...well...a bit too coincidental in my world.

I am totally NOT saying Gein has anything to do with Zahra whatsoever. Just thinking that if EB knew about Ed Gein's murderous history, and incredibly gruesome crimes, that this contact may not be such a random outreach as we think; rather, it may be a part of a darker picture of EB's mind, e.g. she now has a connection to a very brutal, infamous serial killer.

(JFYI, part of the character Jame Gumb, the killer in Silence of the Lambs, was taken from Gein's life - Gein tried to make clothes of skin...)

Just thinking aloud here. Ever since I read the name Gein, this connection has been bothering me. Any thoughts? Or am I reading waaaaaaaaaaay too much into this?

Best-
Herding Cats

IIRC, the site owners are up-front about it being a pseudonym, chosen for that reason for their business. I will see if I can find the link.

ETA: Here's the post I got that from, with the link they got the info from: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5765741&postcount=92"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2010.11.02 Elisa Baker's Letters (Discussion)[/ame]


ETA2: Makes me wonder how many people out there have changed their names from Gein, only to have these folks change their name to it. It's a strange world.

 

[Etilema]

Handwriting Experts Analyze Alleged Jailhouse Letters From Elisa Baker
Meghan Packer Created: 11/3/2010 11:16:37 PM Updated: 11/4/2010 11:29:45 AM
Undated -- As investigators wait to see if a recovered bone belongs to 10 year-old Zahra Baker, the missing girl's stepmother remains in jail on an obstruction of justice charge. Elisa Baker admitted to writing a bogus ransom note.

WBTV in Charlotte obtained letters allegedly written by Elisa Baker from behind bars. The owners of a website, SerialKillersInk.net, said they started writing to Elisa Baker and she wrote back.

Handwriting experts analyzed the letters who said the writings give some interesting insight into Elisa Baker's personality.

"First of all we're seeing an individual who is unreliable," said Thomas Thornburg. He has spent decades analyzing handwriting in a number of well documented court cases, and is closely following developments in the search for Zarha. He said the words that are showing up on several websites as Elisa Baker's demonstrates that she has issues understanding reality.

"She is constantly dealing with issues of anger and temper," he said.

Thomas Grogan, who runs a company called the Forensic Document Laboratory, said, "Whatever feels good at the moment is what she does."

more
http://www.digtriad.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=150073&catid=57

Of course, we don't need to analyze the handwriting to know these things...the *content* of the letters is enough, even if they had been typed.

JMO

 

[Donjeta]

It's not like we even needed the letters to know that she is unreliable and has issues with anger ... her criminal record was quite enough. She's in jail for unreliable checks, threats and an unreliable ransom note, so, well, duh. And if you were unfamiliar with her criminal record, any article where members of her family said she is a habitual liar and threatens and abuses people would have said the same thing.