2010.11.03 Third party involved?

[impatientredhead]

I would love to think Adam is not involved because I would like to believe Z trusted her father and was not betrayed by him.

But I am sorry I don't believe that. And this theory that AB was totally clueless while EB and unnamed parties dismembered, removed and distributed a body, moved furniture, replaced furniture, in addition to full clean up and painting under the brilliant masterminding of EB....

The same mastermind that came up with the overly detailed kidnapping due to mistaken identity. The mastermind that attempted to alert the police via a fire only to have to call back to make the alert.

Doesn't fit to me. moo

 

[westsidefox64]

Another thought on accomplices: People do not keep secrets. The more accomplices the easier for the truth to surface.

How many times have you told someone something and said, do not tell anyone...then that person tells someone else and says, do not tell anyone, etc. etc. It is common nature to share what you know and I contend people do not keep secrets.

ITA but I also wouldnt put murder and dismemberment of a 10 yr old into the gossipy Ive got a secret file. JMO

 

[ynotdivein]

I keep thinking back to what Mr. Causby said:

"Causby described Baker as a quiet man and self-directed worker who can be funny at times and tells stories about working on a sod farm and a sugar mill in his native Australia.

Causby met Elisa Baker a couple of times when she’d come to pick her husband up after work. He said those brief encounters left him feeling unsettled.

“He (Baker) may not have had good judgment,” Causby said, referring to the woman Baker met on the Internet and moved to America to wed. “I think the elevator doesn’t go all the way to the top. She seemed very controlling.” "

http://www2.morganton.com/news/2010/oct/12/homicide-investigation-focuses-morganton-business-ar-453178/

BBM--the wording is ambiguous as to whose "elevator" Causby meant, AB's or EB's... but this quote has stuck with me & I do think he meant Adam.

Could Adam be simple enough that he wouldn't notice ANY of the unusual things that seem so obvious to us? Or think to question the decisions EB was making, the "home schooling" among other things? She and AY put one over on him for months and months with the clear assistance of her daughters... If she had a couple of "friends" who were all in it about what they did to Zahra, and who all agreed to put yet another one over on him, they certainly had prior evidence to think that they could do it again.

(Am trying really hard to convince myself that he could have been totally in the dark... but am having a really hard time of it.)

 

[Etilema]

Another thought on accomplices: People do not keep secrets. The more accomplices the easier for the truth to surface.

How many times have you told someone something and said, do not tell anyone...then that person tells someone else and says, do not tell anyone, etc. etc. It is common nature to share what you know and I contend people do not keep secrets.

Except when the secret could put you on death row or in prison.

JMO

 

[panthera]

I keep thinking back to what Mr. Causby said:

"Causby described Baker as a quiet man and self-directed worker who can be funny at times and tells stories about working on a sod farm and a sugar mill in his native Australia.

Causby met Elisa Baker a couple of times when she’d come to pick her husband up after work. He said those brief encounters left him feeling unsettled.

“He (Baker) may not have had good judgment,” Causby said, referring to the woman Baker met on the Internet and moved to America to wed. “I think the elevator doesn’t go all the way to the top. She seemed very controlling.” "

http://www2.morganton.com/news/2010/oct/12/homicide-investigation-focuses-morganton-business-ar-453178/

BBM--the wording is ambiguous as to whose "elevator" Causby meant, AB's or EB's... but this quote has stuck with me & I do think he meant Adam.

Could Adam be simple enough that he wouldn't notice ANY of the unusual things that seem so obvious to us? Or think to question the decisions EB was making, the "home schooling" among other things? She and AY put one over on him for months and months with the clear assistance of her daughters... If she had a couple of "friends" who were all in it about what they did to Zahra, and who all agreed to put yet another one over on him, they certainly had prior evidence to think that they could do it again.

(Am trying really hard to convince myself that he could have been totally in the dark... but am having a really hard time of it.)

I believe EB probably could have fooled him into believing she was actually home-schooling Zahra, or possibly that Zahra was going through puberty, but anything beyond that I don't believe he was that unaware. AB was Zahra's father yet he couldn't even give a clear answer when he last saw her alive or outside the bedroom, which gives the impression he either never checked on her, or was covering something up. MOO

 

[agathawannabe]

Another thought on accomplices: People do not keep secrets. The more accomplices the easier for the truth to surface.

How many times have you told someone something and said, do not tell anyone...then that person tells someone else and says, do not tell anyone, etc. etc. It is common nature to share what you know and I contend people do not keep secrets.

I'm not so sure the secrets aren't being revealed.

I think perhaps people are talking, but in a very roundabout (figure out how to read between the lines) sort of way.

For example...

EB didn't waste any time sending out letters from jail. I speculated early on that I felt she was communicating something to someone (not so obvious) in her letters.

If there were accomplices, they certainly wouldn't be showing up at the jail to visit her, IMO. So how could she signal them to let them know something like "I'm going forward with the plan to throw AB under the bus"? By sending out letters throwing AB under the bus.

And she sent them to several family members and a publicity-seeking/generating murderabilia website operator.

But I'd bet her (alleged) accomplices didn't get letters. Directly, that is.

MOO

I could be way off track here. But I have a hunch the story is being revealed - inadvertently - by those involved. I sure hope so. Because if it's happening, LE will figure it out.

ETA: Why would it be important for EB to signal the (alleged) accomplices? So they wouldn't get nervous and roll over on her! MOO

 

[dar107]

At this time, I have seen nothing to convince me that AB did not know that his daughter was dead when he made that 911 call. Just everything from DSS reports to no neighbours ever seeing her in the month she lived there to pulling her out of school etc. etc. leads me to AB knowing what was going on his home and with Zahra. I do not have a strong feeling or theory on exactly what his role was, but I cannot believe he had no knowledge.

If new information came out regarding his work hours, maybe I could start to be more open-minded. If it was said he worked long hours or away from the home overnights, but I have seen nothing to that effect. IMO also if the evidence suggested AB had nothing to with this, I think we would see LE being a bit more supportive of him. There is so much we do not know.

 

[Hickory Born]

ITA but I also wouldnt put murder and dismemberment of a 10 yr old into the gossipy Ive got a secret file. JMO

Westside, I don't think I worded that correctly, sorry. Rather than gossipy, I meant to imply that it would be an admission (cleansing, if you will) on their part, so they shared this with a trusted someone.

Example: X,Y,Z did not murder Zahra, but x, y, & z helped with the cleanup, painting, dismemberment, and removal of body. x, y, & z feel badly about their part and need to confess it to someone. Those particular someones in turn need comfort after they know what happened, and they tell someone else. And the ball keeps rolling.

 

[myzzy]

BBM There was 6 cans of paint seized, as listed in search warrant. Sounds like more then a touch-up paint job to me.

Respectfully,
If i went through my house right now i would find probably 5 or 6 cans of spray paint and i know i have atleast 1o pails of paint laying around even some not open.. I dont believe i read or heard has any offical report stated anything about painting over anything, only speculation ( could be wrong)

The black in the bathroom being peeled back, who is to say it wasnt like that already??? I have never seen before and after photos

I just dont think the finding of paint is a reason to take a jump to it being used as part of a coverup. It could have been but havent seen it stated

In a word, NO. IMO.

He cannot narrow down when he last saw his daughter-HIS child. The one he was responsible for and had custody of.

that speaks to knowledge of the crime to me.

More time then i can count i have confused days when trying to remember something ( say monday when it was wed) even recently when my oldest daughter left home i mixed up days of things that transpired, very innocent and nothing even remotly compared to a missing child ( At the time he lost track of dates) I could only imagine what someones mind could be doing if in reality he is innocent and could easily mistake days because the mind is racing .

I'm thinking that covering up blood splatter and tissues would take more than a touch up. And i'm really not trying to be snarky. That house was a crime scene, and it was cleaned up SO WELL that LE didn't notice it at first. There was blood splatter and tissue STILL on the walls, some of it was apparently just painted over. We are not talking about cutting up a chicken here, we are talking about dismembering a body. I don't think a simple little knife in a sheath would do it, it took power tools and that had to have left on hell of a mess. It took TIME to clean up.

BBM - If ZB was abducted at that time ( No murder ever committed) I would think ANY officer would be looking at the house the child went missing from for a crime scene. Its nothing new for children to be murdered by there parents, and i would think they are trained to some degree to look for those signs let alone RELEASE the house back to the owners

Im sure something happened in that home, but it may not have been anything that was not easily covered up ( Rape, beating, abuse, ect) and the murder dismemberment took place outside of the home ( car, woods, another location ect) and because new information come to light they went back to collect unseen evidence

COuld it be possible they were going after clean up evidence ( bathing blood off, Cleaning wounds from struggle, abuse of dropplet f blood from say being slapped, ect)


Just thinking outloud i guess, The one thing i would give anything to see is the written statements of both AB and EB made to LE, that would be a great source of information vs speculation

 

[dar107]

Respectfully,
If i went through my house right now i would find probably 5 or 6 cans of spray paint and i know i have atleast 1o pails of paint laying around even some not open.. I dont believe i read or heard has any offical report stated anything about painting over anything, only speculation ( could be wrong)

The black in the bathroom being peeled back, who is to say it wasnt like that already??? I have never seen before and after photos

I just dont think the finding of paint is a reason to take a jump to it being used as part of a coverup. It could have been but havent seen it stated




More time then i can count i have confused days when trying to remember something ( say monday when it was wed) even recently when my oldest daughter left home i mixed up days of things that transpired, very innocent and nothing even remotly compared to a missing child ( At the time he lost track of dates) I could only imagine what someones mind could be doing if in reality he is innocent and could easily mistake days because the mind is racing .



BBM - If ZB was abducted at that time ( No murder ever committed) I would think ANY officer would be looking at the house the child went missing from for a crime scene. Its nothing new for children to be murdered by there parents, and i would think they are trained to some degree to look for those signs let alone RELEASE the house back to the owners

Im sure something happened in that home, but it may not have been anything that was not easily covered up ( Rape, beating, abuse, ect) and the murder dismemberment took place outside of the home ( car, woods, another location ect) and because new information come to light they went back to collect unseen evidence

COuld it be possible they were going after clean up evidence ( bathing blood off, Cleaning wounds from struggle, abuse of dropplet f blood from say being slapped, ect)


Just thinking outloud i guess, The one thing i would give anything to see is the written statements of both AB and EB made to LE, that would be a great source of information vs speculation

BBM IDK, anythings possible, but they took 33 blood swabs, tissue scraping from wall, cut out piece of Zahra's bedroom wall and floor. A red towel, drain pipes, a sink, etc. This all strongly leads me to believe dismemberment happened in that house.

Re the paint, yep I probly have a few cans kicking around too, but I'm inclined to believe LE seized these items for a reason.

 

[wenwe4]

Along those same lines I will theorize further:
1) EB was the source of info to AB re: virus, broody, premenstral/menstral, sick, staying to herself unless she needs something. Long enough to buy more time to dispose of Zahra while AB was at work. Potentially, there could be up to 2 days (maybe less) before the smell of decomp from what we know of the Anthony case. Could the body been dismembered and discarded in one day and mattress and painting another?

 

[Peliman]

Evening all, the statement about Zahra, EB & AB going to the Oktoberfest on June 8th has been a personal question of mine because I believe it maybe fabricated. While they say it started and they went on the 8th, links I've looked at say it started on the 9th. This would be the afternoon Zahra was reported missing, if I got my times and days right. Sooo my question is, the statement another fabrication, can it be verified?

Need sleep, be back in a couple hours. My beauty sleep yanno.

Edit - I'm wrong, it started on the 8th.

 

[panthera]

Evening all, the statement about Zahra, EB & AB going to the Oktoberfest on June 8th has been a personal question of mine because I believe it maybe fabricated. While they say it started and they went on the 8th, links I've looked at say it started on the 9th. This would be the afternoon Zahra was reported missing, if I got my times and days right. Sooo my question is, the statement another fabrication, can it be verified?

Need sleep, be back in a couple hours. My beauty sleep yanno.

Here is a link to the website. It ran Friday Oct. 8 through Sunday Oct. 10.

http://www.hickoryoktoberfest.com/

One thing that did stick out, however, was when EB said they went there that AB so quickly said they didn't. :waitasec: MOO

 

[agathawannabe]

Here is a link to the website. It ran Friday Oct. 8 through Sunday Oct. 10.

http://www.hickoryoktoberfest.com/

One thing that did stick out, however, was when EB said they went there that AB so quickly said they didn't. :waitasec: MOO

BBM

Wow, I'm caught totally unaware here then. Do we have a public statement saying EB denied going to Oktoberfest? Sorry, I didn't think we had a public answer on that from him (and I've been watching for it). Respecfully asking, source please?

 

[Peliman]

Here is a link to the website. It ran Friday Oct. 8 through Sunday Oct. 10.

http://www.hickoryoktoberfest.com/

One thing that did stick out, however, was when EB said they went there that AB so quickly said they didn't. :waitasec: MOO

Thanks panthera, not sure what I was thinking. If true, they would have last seen Zahra on Friday night. I think the statement was made by EB. Must be some of that conflicting stories thing. Must think on this some more for awhile.

 

[panthera]

BBM

Wow, I'm caught totally unaware here then. Do we have a public statement saying EB denied going to Oktoberfest? Sorry, I didn't think we had a public answer on that from him (and I've been watching for it). Respecfully asking, source please?

I will go look, otherwise I'll edit my post.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Interesting....holding breath Wish I wasn't at work right now, in the mood to do a side by side chart of all the conflicting stories here by different players....damn RL getting in way of more important matters.

 

[Peliman]

Well we do have AB stating things like I last saw her Thursday at 2:30am<kinda> or Tuesday or was it Wednesday like in the police statement.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Well we do have AB stating things like I last saw her Thursday at 2:30am<kinda> or Tuesday or was it Wednesday like in the police statement.

Or Friday, when he "thinks she was there...it looked like she was there." :furious:

 

[panthera]

These pages are slow - sorry it took so long!

OK, found the link:

"-Elisa Baker said she, Adam and Zahra went to Oktoberfest on Friday, Oct. 8, from 7 to 9 p.m. and then went home and Zahra went to bed.

-When Adam Baker was interviewed by investigators on Saturday, Oct. 9, the day Zahra was first reported missing, Adam said he had not seen Zahra since Wednesday, Oct. 6."

http://www2.wspa.com/news/2010/dec/01/3/warrants-elisa-baker-gave-details-zahras-dismember-ar-1155785/