2011.01.11 Info RE: Caylee's Second Autopsy

[Numbers]

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Q2haAoBXvXEJ:thename.org/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26task%3Dview%26id%3D739%26Itemid%3D29+werner+u.+spitz+m.d.+and+autopsy+review&cd=17&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://thename.org/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_details&gid=18&Itemid=26

NAME Autopsy Standards

snip
View attachment 13223

Checkmate.

 

[sleutherontheside]

http://www.wlwt.com/r/19043779/detail.html

Assistant Warren County Prosecutor Travis Vieux cross-examined Spitz, who admitted he had not spoken to any witnesses or examined any police reports when conducting his own investigation.

Vieux and Spitz sparred over statements taken from various editions of the legendary pathologist's textbook, with the pathologist sometimes claiming he could not remember its contents when the prosecutor presented excerpts that appeared to contradict some of his testimony

Ooops

 

[sleutherontheside]

Spitz won't be paid for testimony.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40897508


http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,839093,00.html

central question was whether an autopsy would be of any medical value three months or more after the body was embalmed and buried. The Kopechnes' lawyers called Dr. Werner Spitz, deputy chief medical examiner for Maryland and an expert on drowning cases, who said that anatomical evidence of drowning would already have disappeared.*


http://www.middletownjournal.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2009/03/31/ws040109widmer.html
Assistant Prosecutor Travis Vieux noted that Spitz didn't put the part about the drowning process diluting the blood and exasperating bruises in the latest edition of his book.

"If you are a scientist, you know how to read it," Spitz countered. "If you are a lawyer you don't know how to read it."
Spitz, who earns $400 an hour for trial work, said it is possible that Sarah Widmer had a seizure or some heart problem on that day that caused her to lose consciousness and drown in the tub. But he also conceded Vieux's point that someone choking her could also have caused her to be knocked out and drown.

 

[sleutherontheside]

So we have Jane Bock who has had significant experience in drowning cases....and we have Werner Spitz who is an expert in drowning cases....

Hmmmmmmmmm

 

[Numbers]

So we have Jane Bock who has had significant experience in drowning cases....and we have Werner Spitz who is an expert in drowning cases....

Hmmmmmmmmm

Hmmmmmmm indeed.

So, Caylee got out the ladder, climbed up and jumped in the pool. Then as she was swimming around, 3 pieces of rogue duct tape floated over and attacked her......

Nah.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Hmmmmmmm indeed.

So, Caylee got out the ladder, climbed up and jumped in the pool. Then as she was swimming around, 3 pieces of rogue duct tape floated over and attacked her......

Nah.

IMO any testimoney errrr testimony will be for the purpose of attempting to create reasonable doubt.

However...that pesky duct tape will create quite an obstacle to that plan.

 

[sleutherontheside]

http://www.macombdaily.com/articles/2010/10/24/news/doc4cc3978f40897389735302.txt


Oakland coroner defends Spitz over autopsy (Werner's son)Published: Sunday, October 24, 2010


The swirling controversy over Macomb County Medical Examiner Dr. Daniel Spitz’s failure to detect a gunshot wound in the autopsy of Mount Clemens banker David Widlak is being “overinflated.”

At least that’s the opinion of the person who did locate the wound — Oakland County Medical Examiner Dr. L.J. Dragovic.

“This whole thing is being tremendously overinflated,” Dragovic said Friday. “It’s totally crazy. Dr. Spitz is the next generation of forensic pathology for this state. He has solid experience and is a knowledgeable professional.”

The Oakland County ME said because the body was in such poor physical condition from being in the water for nearly four weeks, exposed to the elements and aquatic life, finding the wound took great effort.

At the news conference, Spitz said he was unable to find the wound because the Macomb County morgue lacked the expensive X-ray device that Oakland County has, but Dragovic stated the wound was found during manual inspection.

He became the county coroner in September 2004, succeeding his father, Dr. Werner Spitz. The elder Spitz is a nationally renowned forensic pathologist who retired in 2004 as chief medical examiner for Macomb County, a position he previously held in Wayne County.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Prosecutor cuts county medical examiner's pay
Published: Thursday, October 22, 2009



http://www.macombdaily.com/articles/2009/10/22/news/srv0000006668690.txt


Macomb County's highest-paid worker, Medical Examiner Dr. Daniel Spitz, has refused to accept a cut proposed for his annual pay of $220,000.

Spitz, who works part time for the county under contract, is paid a salary of $200,532 plus $250 an hour — about $20,000 a year — for work he does for the Prosecutor's Office as an expert witness at criminal trials.


Spitz became the county medical examiner in September 2004, succeeding his father, Dr. Werner Spitz

Smith said he sees no risk that Spitz may bolt the county due to lesser pay because the doctor is associated with a continuous stream of intriguing Macomb County criminal cases that help him win spots on cable TV shows.


http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/local/macomb-county-panel-to-question-medical-examiner-20101110-mr#

After the banker's decomposed body was found in Lake Saint Clair, Dr. Spitz said the cause of death was undetermined, but an independent autopsy by the Oakland County medical examiner found a bullet wound in the 62-year-old's neck.

 

[denjet]

An interesting "Conference" that where both Werner and Daniel Spitz participated as speakers.

http://www.med.wayne.edu/cme/Medicolegal10.pdf

Additionally, Henry Lee and Michael Baden were also featured.

I find the topics of their lectures rather interesting.

Thanks sleuther!

Very interesting ... quite the "club" ... I noticed in the Faculty listing of each speaker that NO ONE mentioned Phil Spector trial ... although they did mention other high-profile or impressive trials and investigations they were involved in like OJ, JonBennett Ramsey, etc.

Some of these experts even worked on cases together or worked on the same cases ... but Spitz is ready with whatever smoke and mirrors he can come up with to discredit someone of Dr G's caliber and experience ... it boggles my mind why another scientist would do that to a colleague experienced in similar fields of expertise ... I mean it's one thing if you think the other expert's opinion is wrong and to give your opinion and reasons, but to go after someone to try to find something they may or may not have overlooked or find fault, any fault or worse, suggest fault or improper procedures when you really have no proof and your sole purpose is to discredit testimony ... well ...

I suppose in fairness to Dr Spitz, we should wait and see if that was in fact what he told the defense lawyers or their "interpretation" of what he said ...

 

[Numbers]

Prosecutor cuts county medical examiner's pay
Published: Thursday, October 22, 2009



http://www.macombdaily.com/articles/2009/10/22/news/srv0000006668690.txt


Macomb County's highest-paid worker, Medical Examiner Dr. Daniel Spitz, has refused to accept a cut proposed for his annual pay of $220,000.

Spitz, who works part time for the county under contract, is paid a salary of $200,532 plus $250 an hour — about $20,000 a year — for work he does for the Prosecutor's Office as an expert witness at criminal trials.


Spitz became the county medical examiner in September 2004, succeeding his father, Dr. Werner Spitz

Smith said he sees no risk that Spitz may bolt the county due to lesser pay because the doctor is associated with a continuous stream of intriguing Macomb County criminal cases that help him win spots on cable TV shows.


http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/local/macomb-county-panel-to-question-medical-examiner-20101110-mr#

After the banker's decomposed body was found in Lake Saint Clair, Dr. Spitz said the cause of death was undetermined, but an independent autopsy by the Oakland County medical examiner found a bullet wound in the 62-year-old's neck.

And the hits just keep on coming! :floorlaugh:

 

[denjet]

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Q2haAoBXvXEJ:thename.org/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26task%3Dview%26id%3D739%26Itemid%3D29+werner+u.+spitz+m.d.+and+autopsy+review&cd=17&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://thename.org/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_details&gid=18&Itemid=26

NAME Autopsy Standards

snip
View attachment 13223

hmmm ... "the forensic pathologist determines the need for special dissections or additional testing" ....

 

[sleutherontheside]

http://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/Abstract.aspx?id=235660

Distinguishing accidental deaths from deaths secondary to child abuse or intentional acts of violence is critical.

 

[Itsy]

O/T - SOTS, I just love your new "siggy" :floorlaugh:

 

[joypath]

Thanks. So to me this talks to ...



I guess that needs to be accomplished on both sides but there is nothing on how, i.e., whether visual inspection via light/camera is acceptable? Today we have cameras that can go into and examine voids with clarity ... so is this an old versus new school thing?

Hi cyberborg! :seeya: Simple answer could be "new" vs "old" innocentkay, how about "comfortable/familiar":innocent school techniques! AND let's not forget that there's this little ole thing called BUDGET CONSTRAINTS regarding the available instruments/"toys"! :maddening::maddening::maddening:

 

[sleutherontheside]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5129184/39942971


DR. WERNER SPITZ, MACOMB COUNTY MI MED. EXAMINER: Thank you.

ABRAMS: All right. When this story initially broke, when we reported it first about this autopsy, you were on the program with me.

SPITZ: Yes.

ABRAMS: You believed at the time that the way the coroner‘s report described that twine and tape, you believed it would have been very difficult for that to have gotten there accidentally. Now that you‘ve had a chance to research more of the material, now that we‘ve been able to sort of graphically depict exactly how that tape was wrapped around the baby, do you still stand by that position that it‘s very hard to believe that it got there accidentally?

SPITZ: No, I don‘t believe that anymore. I don‘t believe it anymore, after I saw the artist‘s rendition of the way the pathologist who described it, the artist made a drawing of it and...

ABRAMS: Yes.

SPITZ: ... I now realize that that tape is not tight around the neck. That tape is loose. That tape is one and a half times around the neck and arm, left arm. There‘s a knot somewhat removed. The tape is not tight at all. I think this tape is totally consistent with having floated up and the wave action put it where it is on the drawing.

ABRAMS: What about the point Mark Geragos makes, which is that there‘s simply—the opening on the tape simply isn‘t big enough for it to have come over the baby‘s head?

ABRAMS: Maybe. Look, this is why Dr. Spitz is a great shooter. He‘s given us a lot of information, which seems to help the defense, and then he turns around and gives us a lot of information that helps the prosecution. And that‘s why he‘s a good objective expert. You may not hear...

 

[Reagan]

And this helps casey how exactly?

If anything it just shows what a callous monster she is for throwing innocent Caylee in the woods like trash, left for animals and bugs to feed off of her decomposing body and scatter her around (sorry to be graphic, but it's true).

I'm not really sure what point the defense is trying to make.

P.S Thanks for posting that article about Spitz flipping out during the Spector trial.

 

[nums24]

"The additional information offered up today includes a statement that defense expert Dr. Werner Spitz would testify that an examination of the remains by Orange-Osceola Chief Medical Examiner Jan Garavaglia "was less than the appropriate standard for such a medical examiner's protocol."

Spitz would testify that the discovered skull should have been opened by Garavaglia, something Spitz did in his "second autopsy," according to the motion. Spitz, according to the document, discovered a dirt or mud deposit inside the cranium, on the left side – something Garavaglia did not discover.

Spitz, the motion states, "would testify that that is material because it indicates that the remains had been laid on the left side … and, therefore, the body had not been left in an upright or straightforward position as has been claimed by investigators, as well as the experts for the prosecution."

Here's the full article: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-jose-baez-sanction-appeal-20110111,0,4602564.story

FWIW, I found the UN Protocol for Skeletal Remains Autopsies:

Model Protocol For Disinterment & Analysis Of Skeletal Remains
Written by DI Advisory committee
Tuesday, 01 January 2008
The UN MODEL PROTOCOL FOR DISINTERMENT AND ANALYSIS OF SKELETAL REMAINS

http://www.defendinternational.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=152&Itemid=127

 

[Horace Finklestein]

And this helps casey how exactly?

If anything it just shows what a callous monster she is for throwing innocent Caylee in the woods like trash, left for animals and bugs to feed off of her decomposing body and scatter her around (sorry to be graphic, but it's true).

I'm not really sure what point the defense is trying to make.

P.S Thanks for posting that article about Spitz flipping out during the Spector trial.

That's what I can't figure out. Baez always seems to go in a direction with something but never makes a convincing case for people to reach the conclusion he wants (someone else placed the body = Casey is innocent). This seems like one of those half baked ideas. What conclusion does he think should be made about the body sitting up or not sitting up?

Looks like Spitz lectured on strangulation and blocked airways or something. Sheesh what a sick joke this is turning out to be.

 

[BonKai]

Respectfully snipped for space.

I suppose in fairness to Dr Spitz, we should wait and see if that was in fact what he told the defense lawyers or their "interpretation" of what he said ...

This was actually my first thought. Did JB spin this as well?

 

[zoey]

http://detnews.com/article/20070314/METRO/703140423/Macomb-s-next-generation-of-crime-fighters

Spitz's father, Werner Spitz, is a nationally respected pathologist who served as Macomb's medical examiner from 1988 until his retirement in 2004. He was involved in evaluating autopsies for President Kennedy, Martin Luther King Jr. and JonBonet Ramsey.

"He never really gave me any advice on how to deal with the national media," Daniel Spitz said. "But I picked up things along the way by watching him. You might do a few extra things in an autopsy because of the scrutiny, not that it's going to make a big difference in the actual autopsy, but you just want to make sure every base is covered."


There we have it. Dr. G. was not lax in her protocol.....Spitz just likes to cater to the media.

ITA...IIRC, Baez argued about Dr. G doing the initial autopsy due to her TV program--more or less implied that she was in it for fame/fortune---(yet another one "inserting" themselves into this case :sick::loser---Can't remember when or where---perhaps that hearing when he was whining about not having access to the crime scene with his "experts".....