2011.02.19 - Desiree puts on the pressure in Roseburg

[gwenabob]

LOL I thought it was a bit of tongue and cheek re 18 yr old's and the word stabilizing, like yea, OK. :innocent:

Except he didn't use the word "stabilizing" when he was 18. He is in his 40s now and I imagine it is not too big a word for a 40-something to use. I don't understand what Kappy was trying to say. It made no sense in the context of this thread.

 

[scandi]

Maybe because they believe in LE and were more worried about Kyron than a campaign against TH? Time has gone by. The case has moved slowly, probably differently than they thought it would move. I don't think DY ever imagined that at this point down the road, TH would still be in comfortable in her parent's home with no arrest and no progress in the case. The reason she is doing it now is because now is when the case needs a shakeup, now when no progress is happening, now when time has passed. Now is the time for indignation and rage, not back then when it seemed LE was going to close the case a lot faster. DY cannot afford for Kyron to be forgotten, which is exactly what TH wants. Now TH knows that this isn't going away anytime soon. I hope she's nervous and panicky in her home. She deserves to be so instead of going out and having fun, a totally despicable thing for her to when an innocent child is missing.

I don't know Aedrys, I read here that this week the MCSD won't ask for any more funding for Kyron's case. Could they already have discovered vital info? It could be that LE wants to shake the proverbial tree before that meeting and the timing of the Commisioner's meeting and Desiree's calling Terri out are time-related.

Just a thought, and if you are reading this TH, read and weep. The truth will out you. It is Kyron who has the beautiful Karma. xox

 

[scandi]

Except he didn't use the word "stabilizing" when he was 18. He is in his 40s now and I imagine it is not too big a word for a 40-something to use. I don't understand what Kappy was trying to say. It made no sense in the context of this thread.

I really didn't understand it either so thought it must have been something tongue and cheek. Hard to explain here cause I didn't get it. :truce:

Off to bed and watch a bit of Frasier. Thanks to everyone who posted on Kyron's forum today. Hopefully we will learn more this week. Hey, maybe someone will fess up to LE this week and Kyron, we will find you and bring you back home. !!!


xox


PS: Hi Harleysnana ~ Long time no see ;}

 

[gwenabob]

I highly doubt people in TMH's neighborhood aren't aware of who she is, but I wouldn't doubt at all if the average person in Roseburg isn't aware of the case. If they knew, I imagine she'd be shunned pretty much everywhere she went.

I think that might be part of Desiree's goal. Isolate her with social awareness and pressure.

 

[Susan10]

But you're clearly claiming the "facts" driving the theory in part are actually ones which you don't even know exist. You "believe" they exist but you don't even know what they are. How can you say you're building a theory on unknown facts which may not even exist?

Again, looking at Terri's "behavior" could easily make you think she is guilty without there being one shred of actual evidence. I could pick someone at random from the board, decide they were involved, and build a case against them. Then whenever there were gaps, contradictions or unknowns in my theory, I could say "well, I believe there's a lot more out there, and I think LE agrees with me" and then redirect to one of my previously established arguments as if it can be used twice.

Imagine two friends named Sam and Max discuss the case, because I like using invented names instead of letters.

Sam: "She sent sexy texts immediately after her husband left. No one normal would do that. It shows she is either indifferent to Kyron, or highly immoral in general."

Max: "You don't know if it is normal, because you don't know how many people involved in missing child cases do this. You only know that this time you found out about it. And even if it is inappropriate or unusual, an equally valid interpretation of this behavior would be that she is someone who turns to sex for comfort. Because we can easily find this other explanation, we know this claim is subjective."

Sam: "But if you add it to the fact that she once had a DUI doesn't that make her seem immoral in general?"

Max: "Zero plus one equals one. We already zeroed out the first argument because either of our interpretations might be valid so we cannot assume either of them are. You cannot now re-add it to the equation."

Sam: "Well, I think there's a lot of stuff, so much that some of it must add up."

Max: "Without examining each piece of it individually and specifically, you can't know whether any of it even exists."

.
I do appreciate the striving to create some kind of defense for TH's defense. IMO she's going to need some creative distractions contrived by her lawyer(s) after she is eventually arrested. I don't believe OR has the death penalty. That's one thing in her favor already, although I believe a sentence of Life Without Parole is more horrible than death. That consoles me.

 

[Amster]

Desiree is a MaMa Grizzly.....:woohoo:

 

[Amster]

Terri is now up against a Mama Grizzly.....all niceties, all "leave me alone", all hiding out with mommy and daddy, all "I want my privacy"....gone!! Only a very determined mama with a mission. The answer to the question!!

Terri Horman. Where is Kyron??

 

[MsFacetious]

"This may not be a wise move in the long run because if she's not careful, she may not really care, but I would not be surprised at all if Desiree is banging on Terri Horman's door, for example, that she may find herself the subject of a restraining order," he said. "And that's not gonna turn out well for anybody."

http://northwestportland.katu.com/n...-goes-national-tv-message-terri-horman/438616


:floorlaugh: The pure absurdity of the idea that Terri would try to get a restraining order against Desiree??? :floorlaugh:


In my perfect world this is how this would go....


Lawyer - "Yes, judge, my client would like a restraining order against this woman."

Judge - "Okay can your client speak for herself?"

Lawyer - "No she cannot for fear of incriminating herself."

Judge - "Has she been charged with a crime?"

Lawyer - "No, but she might be one day. They have obviously focused on her in the investigation. She was forced to give up custody of her daughter because she couldn't testify in that case."

Judge - "Which investigation and why does your client want a restraining order against this woman?"

Lawyer - "The investigation into the disappearance of her stepson. My client wants the restraining order because she has been posting fliers in her area and has knocked on her door."

Judge - "What kind of fliers and how many times has she knocked on her door?"

Laywer - "Fliers of her missing child with my clients picture also on it because she was the last person to see the child.... and she knocked on my clients door on one occasion."

Judge - "So your client won't talk because she fears incriminating herself. Even though it means losing her own child. She wants a restraining order against the mother of the missing child, who's disappearance she won't talk about. Because the mother has broken no laws by putting up fliers and knocking one time on her door.

On what grounds does she want this restraining order? What does she fear is going to happen?"

Lawyer - "That she will come back to her house again."

Judge - "And do what? The child has been missing for almost 9 months. If the mother hasn't done anything drastic, I see no reason why knocking on the door one time with her detective husband, indicates she would do so now. Maybe she wanted to hand your client a flier?" :innocent:


Seriously.

Terri gave up her child to avoid testifying.

Her attorney would be insane to go after Desiree in any way over this. The public already dislikes Terri enough, if she goes after Desiree she is going to be public enemy #1. Put up a no trespassing sign on your property and leave it at that. Or, talk to Desiree... talk to law enforcement... do what needs to be done.

Or even just imagine for a minute, what it would be like if YOUR child was gone. Not being taken care of by her loving father... but GONE. Possibly being tortured, possibly being taken care of, possibly dead out there in the woods or the water... but you don't know.

Think about what that would be like to wonder about, when you believe someone knows where your child is for 261 DAYS (and counting).

Then you might realize that being a bit uncomfortable because people are bugging you... isn't that big of a deal.

 

[gardeness]

I just don't know....I read about Desiree's statement of overwhelming evidence, and I'd like to know more, then I am reminded that her judgment is not rational at this time, example being that Terri took out a "contract" on Kaine--we all know that didn't happen... Still waiting for LE to release some actual evidence...




]

When Kaine and Desiree appeared on Good Morning America in July they intimated TH had help in Kyron's disappearance:

PUBLIC CONDEMNATION'
http://newsblaze.com/story/20100710110812kays.nb/topstory.html

" . . . A turning point of epiphany in the Thursday 'skull session' was when D and K expressed their belief that Terri had help in the kidnapping of their seven-year-old son, Kyron. A reporter asked them "Do you think she did it alone?" Desiree's response was:

"I don't think so, because honestly she didn't take out a contract on her husband alone, so I think she would probably need help." Right when Desiree says this, the dynamic, the furtive glance, between the misbegotten parents is nothing short of a revelation. It's as if the two have thought through this theory of Terri conspiring with another party in Kyron's disappearance."

LE has also stated their belief there was an accomplice in the crime.

Terri's attny has kept her quiet and I don't think he would allow her to 'answer Desiree's call for an answer to 'Where is Kyron'.

I guess I'm wondering why D & K don't try another tacktic and put some focus on the possible accomplice angle. Try and make them nervous so they make a mistake - maybe try to contact Terri.

Just sayin'.

 

[stmarysmead]

I see no evidence that Desiree's judgement is not rational. Not one statement of hers has EVER been challenged or rebutted by Terri or her high priced lawyer.

NOT ONE.

Once again, I recall 19 year old kids, standing in front of a hostile media, facing a trial that would cost them 30-40 years of the rest of their lives:

"You have been told some fantastic lies." said Dave Evans of the Duke LACROSSE team. Did those kids have less to lose? Even the local paper was so convinced of their guilt that they called the accuser.."the victim"... over and over. Threy allowed their attorneys to put rebuttal evidence into motions to become part of the public record.

Terri hides.

She slinks out to bar-hop.

Terri would not even answer a question if the price was NOT EVEN SEEING her baby.

She surrenderd her baby rather than submit to questioning and standard fitness tests.

IMO, unless I see proof otherwise, Desiree's words and actions are reasonable and credible. And Terri's silence underscores their truthfulness.

As for this statement:

"I just don't know....I read about Desiree's statement of overwhelming evidence, and I'd like to know more, then I am reminded that her judgment is not rational at this time, example being that Terri took out a "contract" on Kaine--we all know that didn't happen... Still waiting for LE to release some actual evidence..."

No, we ALL don't know that did not happen. LE told Kaine they believed it happened. A judge took Baby K away from her Mother's custody in part...because he believed it happened. Kaine filed for divorce, in part, because he believes it happened. Desiree and her LE husband who are privy to a great deal more evidence than we...think it happened.

I have seen no statement that now discredits what ALL those people found believable.

The fact that there is not enough to charge Terri for it...is not proof that "we all know that didn't happen."

Is that the standard in every case...if there is not enough to take a murderer to trial? That we then assume that anyone who has looked at the evidence...is "not rational?"

All we know is that LE, a judge, her husband and the Mother and stepfather of a missing child BELIEVE it happened. And neither Terri or her high priced lawyer has ever challenged them and said otherwise.

If Terri has nothing to fear, and is more sinned against than sinning...and there can not POSSIBLY be evidence against her..because she is as pure as snow...why keep silence AT THE COST of her Baby? Is that "rational?" Why would a great attorney with an innocent client..require that? The cost of my representing you...is YOUR CHILD?

Why isn't she taking measures against Desiree? Why isn't she or her lawyers facing down Desiree..."You have been told some fantastic lies."

Terri has lost her Baby, and her Meal-Ticket. She has been publicly revealed to be a person of the lowest morals. There are pictures of her "private parts" showing just how traumatized she was over the disappearance of a little boy who loved her.

She has no reputation, marriage or child left to lose. And, if innocent, she knows, there is nothing out there against her.

If Desiree is simply "not rational"...why the BIG SILENCE?

To say Desiree is "not rational"...means LE is not rational, the judge who granted the restraining order is not rational, and requires us to accept that the MFH has been absolutely discredited. When did THAT happen? Where is that stated? The use of the term "not rational" implies that the inability to charge means it didn't happen. Therefore, it is "not rational" to think that Haleigh C. was murdered? It's delusional to think in all these cases we read about that a crime took place because no one was charged?

Let's not discuss them then..because it would be "not rational" to... say...suspect the Ramseys...or Drew Petersen in those earlier murders?

They weren't charged...were they? Let's shut down all "non-rational" threads if no charges are brought.

None of us have any idea what real evidence the parents are privy to. Certainly, much more than we! Therefore, calling Desiree "not rational" is a premature, and unwarranted judgement call that we have no proof to sustain.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Opinions? Comments? What does this say about Terri's guilt or innocence? Is your opinon swayed or not by this disturbing news?

This, to me, is more of the same about this case. Not actual evidence, nothing that actually connects TMH with Kyron's disappearance. I have no doubt that DY believes it is conclusive but I have no idea of what the evidence actually is. And clearly prosecutors don't feel it's conclusive or they would have TMH arrested.

Cynthia Sommer is the poster girl for how most people think a woman newly widowed should not act. Charged with murder in her Marine husband's death. Many people thought she was guilty because she was going to bars, taking part in thong contests, had breast implants and had sex with a lot of men, starting very shortly after her husband's sudden death.

Convicted and spent almost two years in prison. Won a new trial and then prosecutors dropped the charges because they discovered that new toxicology tests and toxicology experts did not support the charges.

In other words, sometimes post-incident behaviour is an indicator of guilt but sometimes it's just an indicator that the person doesn't have the socially approved emotional responses that most people have.

My opinion that the latest information is not significant as an indicator of TMH's guilt or innocence doesn't blind me to DY's pain.

I just keep hoping that there is more than one or two people there for her, that she has a whole network of loved ones who are supporting her at this time.

 

[Lucid]

I am so glad that DY has gone out there to raise awareness. I had always thought that if Terri ever stepped foot outside of that house, she would be mobbed by the angry public. It really bothers me, not only that she has been going about trying to give herself a good life, but that the public has been allowing her to do so, apparently without confronting her. I would have thought the public would want to make her life miserable, instead of bringing their children up to her doorstep for candy, and serving her alcohol in a bar.

I'm really pleased with Denise's actions, and I hope the people in that town can understand her rage, and will turn their backs on Terri.

 

[Melanie]

Terri met her match. Desiree is a pit bull and will not stop. I applaud her tenacity for justice for Kyron.

She is one heck of a mamma bear and I love her for that. I wish I could say the same for ICA or BJD. They could learn a lesson or two from this wonderful mother.

Keep up the good fight D!

:rocker:

Mel

 

[GrainneDhu]

This is what bothers me, Jo, who the heck is WE? It's not LE obviously, if anything they have taken a step back from the avenue that Desiree and Tony Young seem to be venturing down. Kaine Horman has seemed to also taken a back seat to this "Terri Did It Campaign". So who is WE? Where is the "overwhelming evidence"? I am not saying it's not there, but dang it anyway, I cannot believe something I do not see just because someone says it's there. It further occurs to me that if Kaine was given this same "overwhelming evidence" he'd be right beside Desiree still, encouraging the same public outcry for Terri to "fess-up" that Desiree is, but.......he is not. Something is really, really weird about this whole thing. IDK, but instead of asking "Terri; where is Kyron", I'm still asking "Kyron, where are you?"

This whole case is weird. Really weird.

For instance, why was Bruce McCain on TV saying something to the effect that it was a shame a biological mother had to take matters into her own hands. I mean, in one sense it doesn't surprise me because he gives me the impression of being a publicity hound. But last I heard, he was DDS's attorney. Wazzup with that?

Somehow, something about DY's wording makes me wonder if they have decided to hire a PI to try to get more information about TMH. I know I've seen suggestions several times on WS that they should , I know that many families with missing loved ones do so (if they can afford it), so I wouldn't be surprised if DY hasn't hired a PI to try to move things forward.

 

[Melanie]

I am so glad that DY has gone out there to raise awareness. I had always thought that if Terri ever stepped foot outside of that house, she would be mobbed by the angry public. It really bothers me, not only that she has been going about trying to give herself a good life, but that the public has been allowing her to do so, apparently without confronting her. I would have thought the public would want to make her life miserable, instead of bringing their children up to her doorstep for candy, and serving her alcohol in a bar.

I'm really pleased with Denise's actions, and I hope the people in that town can understand her rage, and will turn their backs on Terri.

I think it shows the narcissist TH is (inordinate fascination with oneself; excessive self-love; vanity).

She's willing to give up her own baby, not to mention Kyron, to have self-satisfaction.

She has shown no fight to even see her baby daughter (thank goodness). Instead she'd rather go to bars, celebrate the holidays, and probably drink to her hearts content (MOO).

She doesn't care - it's all about her, and what satisfies her. Personally, she makes me ill.

MOO

Mel

 

[Melanie]

This, to me, is more of the same about this case. Not actual evidence, nothing that actually connects TMH with Kyron's disappearance. I have no doubt that DY believes it is conclusive but I have no idea of what the evidence actually is. And clearly prosecutors don't feel it's conclusive or they would have TMH arrested.

Cynthia Sommer is the poster girl for how most people think a woman newly widowed should not act. Charged with murder in her Marine husband's death. Many people thought she was guilty because she was going to bars, taking part in thong contests, had breast implants and had sex with a lot of men, starting very shortly after her husband's sudden death.

Convicted and spent almost two years in prison. Won a new trial and then prosecutors dropped the charges because they discovered that new toxicology tests and toxicology experts did not support the charges.

In other words, sometimes post-incident behaviour is an indicator of guilt but sometimes it's just an indicator that the person doesn't have the socially approved emotional responses that most people have.

My opinion that the latest information is not significant as an indicator of TMH's guilt or innocence doesn't blind me to DY's pain.

I just keep hoping that there is more than one or two people there for her, that she has a whole network of loved ones who are supporting her at this time.

While I agree with the Cynthia Sommer case (and her being released), Cynthia did not have a daughter she was willing to throw away. I think that's my nail in the coffin, so to speak. I'm not so much concerned about the sex-text, but that TH can't be bothered to put up the good fight to even see her daughter.

Cynthia did put up the good fight -- something I'm not seeing here at all. If TH is so innocent, why isn't she stepping up to the plate to even attempt to find Kyron? Oh, that's right, she's hiding behind her attorney.

MOO

Mel

 

[Melanie]

Jo..please excuse me, I am sorry I upset you, I just never saw confirmation to such. If there is a link to confirmation of such, and you don't mind sharing it, I would appreciate it.

Hi Kappy,

I think we're all rolling off the interview on GMA. LE informed D of this information over the holidays. No specific information was given to the public other than what D told GMA. Dang, I hope that made sense

IMHO - I believe her!

Mel

 

[K.Scarpetta]

I would do the exact same thing DY is doing, in fact I would likely be a little more reckless - a lot more reckless.
I could not sit or stand by and watch this woman live her life.
8 months is a long time.
All TH has to do is open her mouth and tell the truth.
If she is not guilty/involved in some way, what has she got to lose?
The fact that TH does not think enough of Kyron to even deny the horrible allegations against her infuriates me (a lowly spectator) I can not imagine what it does to DY.
I can not help but feel, that TH has ALL the power right now and she is loving it. All she has to do is keep her mouth shut, and sit back and watch the show. At this time she has duped LE and numerous other agencies, but also caused the worst pain to the Horman Family. My, her hatred must really run deep.
Maybe TH decided that a MFH was too kind of a thing to do to Kaine, also may not have had as great of an impact on DY either. Disappear a child and you now have the power to destroy numerous lives.
I see TH waking up in the mornings the running to a computer or newspaper just to see if there is anything in the news about Ky. I think she pops a big bowl of popcorn and sits down and watches all the interviews with DY KH LE even pausing and rewinding. I think she is thoughly enjoying every second of this, it is almost as good as the act itself. But the best part is that she has all the power.
I hope this all changes very soon.

 

[gardeness]

I can confidently state that a contract never happened because taking a contract out on someone, in definition, specifically is defined by an exchange of money. LE stated that the alleged murder for hire did not go beyond talk. We might not like it, but it's a fact.

I see no evidence that Desiree's judgement is not rational. Not one statement of hers has EVER been challenged or rebutted by Terri or her high priced lawyer.

NOT ONE.

Once again, I recall 19 year old kids, standing in front of a hostile media, facing a trial that would cost them 30-40 years of the rest of their lives:

"You have been told some fantastic lies." said Dave Evans of the Duke LACROSSE team. Did those kids have less to lose? Even the local paper was so convinced of their guilt that they called the accuser.."the victim"... over and over. Threy allowed their attorneys to put rebuttal evidence into motions to become part of the public record.

Terri hides.

She slinks out to bar-hop.

Terri would not even answer a question if the price was NOT EVEN SEEING her baby.

She surrenderd her baby rather than submit to questioning and standard fitness tests.

IMO, unless I see proof otherwise, Desiree's words and actions are reasonable and credible. And Terri's silence underscores their truthfulness.

As for this statement:

"I just don't know....I read about Desiree's statement of overwhelming evidence, and I'd like to know more, then I am reminded that her judgment is not rational at this time, example being that Terri took out a "contract" on Kaine--we all know that didn't happen... Still waiting for LE to release some actual evidence..."

No, we ALL don't know that did not happen. LE told Kaine they believed it happened. A judge took Baby K away from her Mother's custody in part...because he believed it happened. Kaine filed for divorce, in part, because he believes it happened. Desiree and her LE husband who are privy to a great deal more evidence than we...think it happened.

I have seen no statement that now discredits what ALL those people found believable.

The fact that there is not enough to charge Terri for it...is not proof that "we all know that didn't happen."

Is that the standard in every case...if there is not enough to take a murderer to trial? That we then assume that anyone who has looked at the evidence...is "not rational?"

All we know is that LE, a judge, her husband and the Mother and stepfather of a missing child BELIEVE it happened. And neither Terri or her high priced lawyer has ever challenged them and said otherwise.

If Terri has nothing to fear, and is more sinned against than sinning...and there can not POSSIBLY be evidence against her..because she is as pure as snow...why keep silence AT THE COST of her Baby? Is that "rational?" Why would a great attorney with an innocent client..require that? The cost of my representing you...is YOUR CHILD?

Why isn't she taking measures against Desiree? Why isn't she or her lawyers facing down Desiree..."You have been told some fantastic lies."

Terri has lost her Baby, and her Meal-Ticket. She has been publicly revealed to be a person of the lowest morals. There are pictures of her "private parts" showing just how traumatized she was over the disappearance of a little boy who loved her.

She has no reputation, marriage or child left to lose. And, if innocent, she knows, there is nothing out there against her.

If Desiree is simply "not rational"...why the BIG SILENCE?

To say Desiree is "not rational"...means LE is not rational, the judge who granted the restraining order is not rational, and requires us to accept that the MFH has been absolutely discredited. When did THAT happen? Where is that stated? The use of the term "not rational" implies that the inability to charge means it didn't happen. Therefore, it is "not rational" to think that Haleigh C. was murdered? It's delusional to think in all these cases we read about that a crime took place because no one was charged?

Let's not discuss them then..because it would be "not rational" to... say...suspect the Ramseys...or Drew Petersen in those earlier murders?

They weren't charged...were they? Let's shut down all "non-rational" threads if no charges are brought.

None of us have any idea what real evidence the parents are privy to. Certainly, much more than we! Therefore, calling Desiree "not rational" is a premature, and unwarranted judgement call that we have no proof to sustain.

 

[stmarysmead]

"I can confidently state that a contract never happened because taking a contract out on someone, in definition, specifically is defined by an exchange of money. LE stated that the alleged murder for hire did not go beyond talk. We might not like it, but it's a fact."



The sense of what Desiree said was that Terri tried to induce another person to commit murder. The method of inducement was perhaps sex rather than money. But she was offereing SOMETHING in return for a service she wished.

Was there a "contract" written in a lawyer's office and notarized that Terri would perform a certain number of sexual acts in return for her husband's death? No one ever believed that type of "contract" existed.

Was Terri successful? Obviously not. But the "intent" has not been discounted or proven not to be the case.

Desiree is describing a woman of so odious a character that she possess THAT intent... that she tried to implement that "contract."

It did not happen. But the sense of what this grieving Mother is saying is clear...and true.

That does not make what Desiree has said "not rational."

And as for saying "we all know'....I do not understand who "we all" might be?

I certainly understand very well what Desiree meant...and believe a "contract" of exchange of services did exist. LE also believed Terri was arranging a murderous exchange of services; so did Kaine; so did the judge that issued the restraining order and giving Kaine custody.

If Terri's attorneys do not believe it...I wonder why they did not let her fight for custody of her child. Of course, I am assuming that she wants the child.

One can ONLY state "confidently" that the MFH was not successful and , to date, there has been no charge. We know a child has been forfeited though.

Does that mean anything? It does if we assume that Terri cares for the child.

Time will tell about the rest. We do not know what LE and Desiree know.

If one must disbelieve that there was a MFH plot...because Terri has not been charged...then one must disbelieve that Haliegh Cummings was murdered...no one was charged, right?

In every case, where there is not enough evidence for trial, every WS poster who argues that a crime has been committed is "not rational" to expand that argument.