Timeline Discussion

[loves2bmom]

This is super hard to follow on my phone.. I'm on vaca. But I also wouldn't use the route Dateline had for FM2 to Sauvie. The bookstore (Borders) is very close to FM2. Maybe a 5-6 min drive.

 

[SurfieTX]

THIS TIMELINE IS FROM FM TO SHELTERED NOOK RD!! =)


I had changed a portion of someone else's post for a travel route =)

When I took Kimster I'm thinking that since we did not do a direct route from FM to Sauvie's (did a few detours) that going from the school to Sauvie's seemed shorter..??

Sorry I was not paying more attention to the dateline program and the posting.
I see that the Dateline 26 minutes as far as I can tell is going Hwy 26, east to Portland, then exit to Hwy 30 and go west on Hwy 30 to Sauvie's.

LOCALS please pitch in here, but from living on this side (the south) side of the West Hills, and anyone who lives near FM on Walker or even up by the school, IMO, would NOT go down Hwy 26 to Hwy 30 then to Sauvie's.

I think as I posted way back (above post) I was surprised at the drive time.

Once you get on Hwy 26 closer to Portland, you start getting into freeway traffic and I just don't think that would be a preferred route, so many accidents on Hwy 26...

Locals??? Help??? =)

**update**

I cannot find 26 minutes now, I've messed w/the map too much.

Anyone have that route? Maybe it isn't the one I thought (The Dateline one)

UPDATE
Found it, it is the one I think is a way a local would not go..???

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...,-122.748184&spn=0.119524,0.292511&z=12&via=1

LE places her here: 10:15 to 11:30am on or near Skyline Blvd between approx Springville Rd and Newberry Rd, including on or around Germantown Rd and/or Old Germantown Rd.

So, which ever way is the best route from any one of these roads would be my best guess as to which one she chose.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5654987&postcount=1"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5654987&postcount=1[/ame]

 

[SondraK]

Has LE ever said that there for sure IS a receipt from the first store, or was it just a TH statement that has never been confirmed???

 

[pufnstuf]

Has LE ever said that there for sure IS a receipt from the first store, or was it just a TH statement that has never been confirmed???

Not confirmed. And just because she has a receipt doesn't mean she was there.

The only source for that receipt is Terri.

 

[BeanE]

THIS TIMELINE IS FROM FM TO SHELTERED NOOK RD!! =)


I had changed a portion of someone else's post for a travel route =)

When I took Kimster I'm thinking that since we did not do a direct route from FM to Sauvie's (did a few detours) that going from the school to Sauvie's seemed shorter..??

Sorry I was not paying more attention to the dateline program and the posting.
I see that the Dateline 26 minutes as far as I can tell is going Hwy 26, east to Portland, then exit to Hwy 30 and go west on Hwy 30 to Sauvie's.

LOCALS please pitch in here, but from living on this side (the south) side of the West Hills, and anyone who lives near FM on Walker or even up by the school, IMO, would NOT go down Hwy 26 to Hwy 30 then to Sauvie's.

I think as I posted way back (above post) I was surprised at the drive time.

Once you get on Hwy 26 closer to Portland, you start getting into freeway traffic and I just don't think that would be a preferred route, so many accidents on Hwy 26...

Locals??? Help??? =)

**update**

I cannot find 26 minutes now, I've messed w/the map too much.

Anyone have that route? Maybe it isn't the one I thought (The Dateline one)

UPDATE
Found it, it is the one I think is a way a local would not go..???

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...,-122.748184&spn=0.119524,0.292511&z=12&via=1

Thanks, free! Then it looks like the Dateline time is the one we should be using for now(?), because it's actually the minimum time time we have right now, and we've always gone with minimum times.

The Dateline time is 26 minutes, and I was using 27 minutes, which was the minimum time from Google maps.

Help? lol.


- Per Google Maps, the drive time from the 2nd Fred Meyer on Walker Rd to the intersection of NW Sauvie Island Rd and NW Gillihan Rd, just on the other (island) side of the bridge to Sauvie Island, is 27 to 28 minutes (12.1 to 20.1 miles).

- Assuming, therefore, the minimum drive times from Google Maps, with arrival on the bridge to Sauvie Island at (10:00am plus 27 minutes = ) 10:27am

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5654987&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Sauvie Island Timeline Info[/ame]


ETA:

This is super hard to follow on my phone.. I'm on vaca. But I also wouldn't use the route Dateline had for FM2 to Sauvie. The bookstore (Borders) is very close to FM2. Maybe a 5-6 min drive.

Thanks so much, loves2b!

 

[stmarysmead]

But let's omit from the timeline the first store because there has never been independent proof of that...just Terri's word.

 

[SurfieTX]

"PORTLAND, Ore. -- More than four dozen searchers were involved in diving into bodies of water on Sauvie Island on Saturday and divers returned again on Sunday. It's the first time searchers have been back on the island in about a month.

snip

Officials told KGW that the operation had been planned for several weeks but that they had had to wait for resources to become available from other agencies.
Searchers used sophisticated sonar mapping equpment over the weekend. Why sonar?
Multnomah County Sheriff's Office spokesman Lt. Mary Lindstrand chose words carefully.
"They're looking for items, I can't give the specifics and have to be careful in what I say here," she said. "They are using the sonar to see if there's something they need to check."

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/newkyronsearch-107821564.html

This article doesn't say where this was. Does a local know? Can we add this as a potential location on Sauvie for the timeline?

ETA: "Scouring the murky bottom of the Multnomah Channel is a tedious and time consuming task, but high-tech equipment is making the job easier for searchers in the Kyron Horman investigation. Investigators from several agencies were out on the water this weekend. They tell FOX 12 visibility is poor to bad for divers." http://www.kptv.com/news/25790396/detail.html

This link includes a video of the area.

Here's a general area map: http://itouchmap.com/?d=1135943&s=OR&f=channel

 

[ami]

BBM...Thank you...This is absolutely key. IMO the timeline should only consist of what we can verify other ways...not Terri.

I also remember that at one point Desiree mentioned quite a longer period of time that Terri could not account for. Might be a slip of words or might be Desiree knows that some of these things we are using for timeline markers..LE was able later to discount.

I do think Desiree often gives us new clues in her despair.

Just speculating of course.

I agree. It was in another thread that I started thinking that Terri says she has receipts with such and such a time stamp on them - but in the same email she says Kyron was seen with a male chaperone, and in her text with MC she says Houze cost 350K, and to DDS she says she went for a drive out of angst for babyK rather than to MC's house... etc etc etc. In other words, she's not a reliable reporter of fact. Maybe she does have a receipt with a time stamp, and maybe that receipt was her own... and maybe not.

This doesn't sit well with me either. When she left the house with Baby K, she would only have expected to run to the school, take a few pictures and maybe run an errand.

When did they leave home...before 8AM?...so with an "unexpected " decision to drive around...she has that Baby out for almost 5 hours. That's a long time.

So...she had food, diapers, bottle..., the child's lunch and snack...all conveniently ready for an EXTENDED trip? Why if she hadn't planned it?

I'm not bothered by the packing part - when my daughter was that age she was at the tail end of being breast fed but also eating finger food, and I probably had enough supplies to last a full day and then some in my average diaper bag. Lunch could be cheerios and apple juice at that age - it's not overly tricky if your child "grazes" most of the day to be okay with whatever's in the diaper bag plus a quick grab of something at the store on an accidentally extended day out.

What does bother me was what someone pointed out earlier: when did baby K sleep, and why did Terri lead foot it home after being out 5+ hours with baby K only to jump on the computer and upload pictures? What was babyK doing? After a day on the go, in the car, in the daycare, fussy and achy and (according to Terri) nap-less, I would think a warm bath, at least a face and hand wash, a diaper change, a bit of motrin, a little warm food, some rocking chair time, etc., for an ear-achy un-napped baby. I'm bothered by the speed at which Terri was uploading pics on facebook after that day out with baby K. Nothing else we've heard suggests she would ignore baby K so she could upload pictures of Kyron out of sheer pride - a child she was struggling over, having problems with, complaining about to friends, perhaps no longer wanting to care for - that same child's picture was important enough to upload as a first priority upon returning home? Just fishy.

 

[grandmaj]

Here is my suggestion. There is absolutely nothing wrong with deciding that you want to rule out Terri's statements and try to come up with a timeline without her input.

We can have more than one potential timeline. We don't have to all agree on one.

In making your determinations however, try to remember there have been certain clues that have been given. One is the flier. And the positioning of the truck if you ran your mouse over the picture in the original download? Remember the notations of LE where they think the truck was positioned? Does this flier change your mind that Terri was in fact at both locations because of these notations by LE?

I think if you all work together you can come close. And if you discount one timeline because it has Terri's information in it, you can try it without.

We can only do the best without real facts. Sadly we are trying to put together a timeline from lots of different sources and any source could be off by 5 or 10 minutes.

 

[BeanE]

Here is MCSO's flier from the Aug 11 press conference. MCSO seems to believe that Terri was at two FMs. If you hover your mouse over the pics for each FM, and look at MCSO's notations, LE seems to have even identified where Terri parked at each:

http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom/081110_PressConferenceFlier.pdf


I am certainly not saying that multiple timelines with varying views and considerations should not be developed. Not at all. I am simply offering this info for reference and consideration.

ETA: lol. Posted at the same time, gram.

 

[freefallzzzz]

"PORTLAND, Ore. -- More than four dozen searchers were involved in diving into bodies of water on Sauvie Island on Saturday and divers returned again on Sunday. It's the first time searchers have been back on the island in about a month.

snip

Officials told KGW that the operation had been planned for several weeks but that they had had to wait for resources to become available from other agencies.
Searchers used sophisticated sonar mapping equpment over the weekend. Why sonar?
Multnomah County Sheriff's Office spokesman Lt. Mary Lindstrand chose words carefully.
"They're looking for items, I can't give the specifics and have to be careful in what I say here," she said. "They are using the sonar to see if there's something they need to check."

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/newkyronsearch-107821564.html

This article doesn't say where this was. Does a local know? Can we add this as a potential location on Sauvie for the timeline?

Divers were in several different locations that weekend.


Just on "Sunday" we personally saw..

-Sheriff boat seen docked in water at end of NW Ferry Rd
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...ry+Rd,+Portland,+Multnomah,+Oregon+97231&z=16

-Divers seen diving off the dock at Gilbert River Boat Ramp
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=45.78...790465,-122.794018&spn=0.007436,0.018282&z=16

-Same dive team seen heading down onto graveled portion of NW Oak Island Rd (I do not know how far back in they went, but local hunters told us they had seen them diving back in that area Saturday also)

-map is approx where it turns to gravel- Dive teams went further down this road
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=45.70...691972,-122.814703&spn=0.029797,0.073128&z=14

Local news also has video of them diving, I believe it was somewhere along
NW Reeder Rd.

Photos of this day (divers and locations) here
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t166/ubrmel/11 14 2010 search sauvie/

 

[grandmaj]

Here is my suggestion. There is absolutely nothing wrong with deciding that you want to rule out Terri's statements and try to come up with a timeline without her input.

We can have more than one potential timeline. We don't have to all agree on one.

In making your determinations however, try to remember there have been certain clues that have been given. One is the flier. And the positioning of the truck if you ran your mouse over the picture in the original download? Remember the notations of LE where they think the truck was positioned? Does this flier change your mind that Terri was in fact at both locations because of these notations by LE?

I think if you all work together you can come close. And if you discount one timeline because it has Terri's information in it, you can try it without.

We can only do the best without real facts. Sadly we are trying to put together a timeline from lots of different sources and any source could be off by 5 or 10 minutes.

Again, work with two or three models...... We all base our reasoning on different things.

 

[SurfieTX]

For a local, is it possible to be driving on a main road or freeway and throw something out a vehicle's window and into the Multnomah Channel - perhaps a bat phone?

 

[ami]

Here is my suggestion. There is absolutely nothing wrong with deciding that you want to rule out Terri's statements and try to come up with a timeline without her input.

We can have more than one potential timeline. We don't have to all agree on one.

In making your determinations however, try to remember there have been certain clues that have been given. One is the flier. And the positioning of the truck if you ran your mouse over the picture in the original download? Remember the notations of LE where they think the truck was positioned? Does this flier change your mind that Terri was in fact at both locations because of these notations by LE?

I think if you all work together you can come close. And if you discount one timeline because it has Terri's information in it, you can try it without.

We can only do the best without real facts. Sadly we are trying to put together a timeline from lots of different sources and any source could be off by 5 or 10 minutes.

In revisiting the flier, I still don't know if Terri had a receipt and if the receipt had the time stamp she said it did. LE could very well be looking for verification that she was indeed at the first FM as she said she was. If Terri said, "I was at FM at 9am, parked at the back of the lot in the 3rd row, and left at about 915" - LE could very well have used the flier to see if anyone could verify that she was there, not necessarily because they believed her.

 

[Donjeta]

What does bother me was what someone pointed out earlier: when did baby K sleep, and why did Terri lead foot it home after being out 5+ hours with baby K only to jump on the computer and upload pictures? What was babyK doing?

IIRC Kaine said when he got home the baby was playing in her room.

 

[grandmaj]

In revisiting the flier, I still don't know if Terri had a receipt and if the receipt had the time stamp she said it did. LE could very well be looking for verification that she was indeed at the first FM as she said she was. If Terri said, "I was at FM at 9am, parked at the back of the lot in the 3rd row, and left at about 915" - LE could very well have used the flier to see if anyone could verify that she was there, not necessarily because they believed her.

Gotcha I myself am leary of her facts. So go with a couple of models. One without her information and one with it or even one half and half if you believe some of what she says. Problem is we just don't know. :waitasec:

 

[freefallzzzz]

For a local, is it possible to be driving on a main road or freeway and throw something out a vehicle's window and into the Multnomah Channel - perhaps a bat phone?

If you stopped on the bridge, perhaps.. google street view shows some images of the old bridge and the construction.
I found one picture here, as you can see there are bike/walking lanes on each side and pulling over would be very unusual, and throwing something.. you'd have to huck it I'd think a ways..
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4759062634_2bc7812891.jpg

And Hwy 30 does not go right next to the Mult Channel (not in the Sauvie's area), nor do the roads on the island, there are a few spots on Sauvie Island Road where there is not a berm/dike along side the road, but there is really no room to pull over, and there is a bit of distance between the road, then the slope down to the channel, to the water.

You could throw something I suppose though...just have to cover a bit of distance... ????

JMO, other locals???

 

[ami]

Gotcha I myself am leary of her facts. So go with a couple of models. One without her information and one with it or even one half and half if you believe some of what she says. Problem is we just don't know. :waitasec:

Yup. It's hard for me to keep straight sometimes (until a good detailed thread like this or the other timeline one comes along) which info is solid and which seems solid but might not be. It's interesting to play with ideas. Dateline has nothin' on WS... that's for sure.

 

[ami]

IIRC Kaine said when he got home the baby was playing in her room.

Yep exactly... and she was 18 months old at the time. That really bothers me.

 

[miabellamoure]

But let's omit from the timeline the first store because there has never been independent proof of that...just Terri's word.

Exactly, and especially if she only went into the store just looking for OTC medicine for baby K**** and didn't find them...obviously there would be NO receipt.

However, there could possibly be video survelliance of her entering or exiting the store...?

I agree tho' without proof that TH was there...it's not reliable timeline information.