Timeline Discussion

[Shadowboy]

From Kimster

"On the Dateline thread (which is now closed since the show is over) I mentioned to Freefallzzzz that it didn't seem to take that long when she and I drove from the school to Sauvie Island. She said that is correct because the Dateline route was a long route to use. It is much faster to go via Corn Pass, which is the way Freefallzzzz took me. I don't know why they didn't mention that there is a quicker route on the show. That really bugs me that they did that."


Thanks for this clarification. I thought the DL transit time was off, given WS info. TY TY TY Locals!!!

Something else I noticed in the Dateline program: Andrea Leckey, who provided local media details of her GJ testimony, was not mentioned by name, nor was she interviewed.

That's a big "hummmm" for me. Here's a woman who testified in front of two (2) Grand Juries within 6 months. In the first case, she went to the media *first*... was on camera within an hour of the incident … did not contact LE (in spite of news reports "if you were there/saw this/call this #”). LE contacted *her* to testify before a GJ in an officer-related shooting. I’ve read through many articles and the GJ testimony (yes, it’s public). Her testimony is, IMO, off. Here are a couple references. I have more.

http://southwestportland.katu.com/content/officer-involved-shooting-reported-hoyt-arboretum

http://www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopul...er-encounter-with/ZRn4GrYpt0a0BAxulU8rEA.cspx

In the KY case, she was one of the very few (maybe the ONLY) GJ witness to "blah blah" to media about her testimony. She saw TH at FM; knew baby K had an earache due to conversations with TH June 3rd; saw a pix of Ky. Wow. She's key.

But, in the Dateline story ... no interview with AL; no mention of her by name; no pix of her. Dateline simply references an "acquaintance." (Okay. She probably *is* an “acquaintance.” But why so media-shy now?)

Just throwin' this out there ... What if AL is nothing more than a media hound? What if, in the light of truth, AL – and the GJ -- realized her “testimony” could not hold up?

FYI: I don’t know AL; I don’t know shizz. But I’ve had my doubts about AL’s testimony from the beginning. How many of *you* have appeared before a Grand Jury twice in less than 6 months time? KWIM?

 

[mmmagique]

From Kimster

"On the Dateline thread (which is now closed since the show is over) I mentioned to Freefallzzzz that it didn't seem to take that long when she and I drove from the school to Sauvie Island. She said that is correct because the Dateline route was a long route to use. It is much faster to go via Corn Pass, which is the way Freefallzzzz took me. I don't know why they didn't mention that there is a quicker route on the show. That really bugs me that they did that."


Thanks for this clarification. I thought the DL transit time was off, given WS info. TY TY TY Locals!!!

Something else I noticed in the Dateline program: Andrea Leckey, who provided local media details of her GJ testimony, was not mentioned by name, nor was she interviewed.

That's a big "hummmm" for me. Here's a woman who testified in front of two (2) Grand Juries within 6 months. In the first case, she went to the media *first*... was on camera within an hour of the incident … did not contact LE (in spite of news reports "if you were there/saw this/call this #”). LE contacted *her* to testify before a GJ in an officer-related shooting. I’ve read through many articles and the GJ testimony (yes, it’s public). Her testimony is, IMO, off. Here are a couple references. I have more.

http://southwestportland.katu.com/content/officer-involved-shooting-reported-hoyt-arboretum

http://www.koinlocal6.com/mostpopul...er-encounter-with/ZRn4GrYpt0a0BAxulU8rEA.cspx

In the KY case, she was one of the very few (maybe the ONLY) GJ witness to "blah blah" to media about her testimony. She saw TH at FM; knew baby K had an earache due to conversations with TH June 3rd; saw a pix of Ky. Wow. She's key.

But, in the Dateline story ... no interview with AL; no mention of her by name; no pix of her. Dateline simply references an "acquaintance." (Okay. She probably *is* an “acquaintance.” But why so media-shy now?)

Just throwin' this out there ... What if AL is nothing more than a media hound? What if, in the light of truth, AL – and the GJ -- realized her “testimony” could not hold up?

FYI: I don’t know AL; I don’t know shizz. But I’ve had my doubts about AL’s testimony from the beginning. How many of *you* have appeared before a Grand Jury twice in less than 6 months time? KWIM?

I don't know what you're trying to infer (sorry) but perhaps LE came to her and asked her to cool it for the sake of the case. Or maybe she's just sick of the limelight. Idk.

 

[Kimster]

 

[Shadowboy]

Oops. OT. Now taking the fastest choo-choo outta Dodge!

 

[Shadowboy]

However ... my comments on AL *did* have to do with TH's timeline ... tangentially, but the timeline was the intended target.

 

[Tink56]

bumping for reference: SI timeline, please go here, and add anything you have to help.


Sauvie Island Timeline Info - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

You may have missed the comment I made about considering Andrea's statement about seeing TH at FM early enough to complete her (Andrea's) shopping, drive to another store, and arrive before opening at 10:00 A.M.

I, therefore, consider the departure time of 10:00 A.M. as too late for TH from the second store.

Perhaps this should be incorporated in some way. Thanx...

BTW...a great deal of the timeline is premised on TH's email. I am not sure that this is a reliable source.

Maybe it would be interesting to construct two timelines, the one that allows the shortest time between FM #2 and the gym and the one that allows the greatest time between the two. MOO, IMO, etc.

 

[BeanE]

On the Dateline thread (which is now closed since the show is over) I mentioned to Freefallzzzz that it didn't seem to take that long when she and I drove from the school to Sauvie Island. She said that is correct because the Dateline route was a long route to use. It is much faster to go via Corn Pass, which is the way Freefallzzzz took me. I don't know why they didn't mention that there is a quicker route on the show. That really bugs me that they did that.

You may have missed the comment I made about considering Andrea's statement about seeing TH at FM early enough to complete her (Andrea's) shopping, drive to another store, and arrive before opening at 10:00 A.M.

I, therefore, consider the departure time of 10:00 A.M. as too late for TH from the second store.

Perhaps this should be incorporated in some way. Thanx...

BTW...a great deal of the timeline is premised on TH's email. I am not sure that this is a reliable source.

Maybe it would be interesting to construct two timelines, the one that allows the shortest time between FM #2 and the gym and the one that allows the greatest time between the two. MOO, IMO, etc.

We were trying to use the shortest possible times. This looks like the most recent shot at it:

Okay, new try. TH leaves FM #2 @ 9:50, she travels 52 minutes to be at the Island Cove Market & Cafe on Sauvie Island. She arrives there at 10:42 or thereabouts. She hands off Kyron to someone there. She goes back to the gym which is also 52 minutes, so it's now 11:34. This is the shortest time period I could find getting as far as the Cafe area. Of course, we know Terri has a lead foot, so you can probably take off another 10 minutes off of this time. This seems to work close enough to the 90 minute unaccounted for time, and it gets her back to the gym before 11:39. It has her leaving the FM store a bit earlier then 10:00, but you could make it 9:55 and it will still work. The only thing is, she sure didn't have much time to do anything if she went as far up as the cafe, and that's not all the way to Rentenaar Rd., though that's not far up from there.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...651488,-122.729645&spn=0.183831,0.441513&z=11

P.S. please check my math.

Tink, if see a way to shorten it more, please jump in. Do you mean using 9:45 instead of 9:50?

Billylee, the Dateline route was 26 minutes IIRC. In the Sauvie timeline thread, there's a post by freefallzzz on it being shorter to use Corn Pass, with a time of 24 minutes. Is that incorporated?

Freefall and Kimster, is it shorter than 24 minutes do you think? If so, how much shorter?

I just woke up, and I could be reading this whole thing wrong. Need coffee. Badly.

 

[stmarysmead]

On the Dateline thread (which is now closed since the show is over) I mentioned to Freefallzzzz that it didn't seem to take that long when she and I drove from the school to Sauvie Island. She said that is correct because the Dateline route was a long route to use. It is much faster to go via Corn Pass, which is the way Freefallzzzz took me. I don't know why they didn't mention that there is a quicker route on the show. That really bugs me that they did that.

Looking at BeanE's post and Kimster's post...I don't understand. "Much faster" would not indicate two minutes to me. I'm think this is a key point...so is the Corn Pass route a great deal faster, or just a matter of minutes...as BeanE's post says?

I hope our locals weigh in so we can all be on the same page. Two minutes is essentially the same time...with a little less pressure on the gas pedal.LOL!

 

[stmarysmead]

Is this the post in question? Perpaps Freefallz was quoting the Google times and subsequent to this post...has made the drive herself and found it "much faster" than the time stated. That makes sense.




"Good work on the timeline =)

From being a local, one thing stood out, which I bolded above..

I know locals can pitch in, but when I go up over Corn Pass and I'm closer to 185th than Corn Pass I go up 185th as the traffic is not that bad.

I think going 26 to 405 to 30 then to Corn Pass is not a usual way to go. (I was surprised on the drive time though!)

Plus, if anyone is exploring the DS theory, if you go to the link below-the one for Walker Rd FM to Sheltered Nook, and just move the little blue line around, google switches the drive path for you..
(Yeah, just found this out)
And going up 185th, normally you turn left on Germantown then right onto Corn Pass but you could easily go right to Germantown/Old Germantown.

There are so many possibilities but after seeing searchers clear out on the graveled part of Reeder Rd, that's a long drive.. I'm with the belief if anyone is doing a timeline, go with the furthest distance as LE was out there searching..?? JMO

Link to map of Sauvie Island Bridge to where I saw searchers on Reeder Rd
right before you turn left to go to Gilbert River Access / Boat Ramp
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sour...,0.146255&z=13

Link to picture of searchers on Reeder Rd - look at map link above, this is where they were at..
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t...&current=a.jpg


Here is the map between Walker Rd FM and Sheltered Nook
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sour...1&ie=UTF8&z=12

NW Cornelius Pass Rd
10.7 mi 24mins

15995 SW Walker Rd
Beaverton, OR 97006
1. Head southeast on SW Walker Rd toward NW 158th Ave
0.1 mi
2. Take the 1st left onto NW 158th Ave
0.9 mi
3. Turn left at NW Cornell Rd
0.1 mi
4. Take the 1st right onto NW Bethany Blvd
0.2 mi
5. Turn left to merge onto US-26 W toward Ocean Beaches
1.1 mi
6. Take exit 64 for 185th Ave toward P.C.C- Rock Cr
0.3 mi
7. Turn right at NW 185th Ave
2.6 mi
8. Turn left at NW Germantown Rd
0.3 mi
9. Take the 1st right onto NW Old Cornelius Pass Rd
486 ft
10. Slight right at NW Cornelius Pass Rd
4.4 mi
11. Turn left at NW Sheltered Nook Rd
0.2 mi
12. Slight right to stay on NW Sheltered Nook Rd
0.3 mi

NW Sheltered Nook Rd
Portland, OR 97231

 

[BeanE]

Yep, that's the post, stmarymead. As soon as we get clarification, we can incorporate any changes needed.

Remember, everybody, we're looking for the shortest times possible, and even if it's just 2 minutes we can shave off, we'll take it!

ETA: Here's the Sauvie Island timeline thread link again - all input into is very much appreciated for anyone who has the time:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116238"]Sauvie Island Timeline Info - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


ETA again lol: Looking at the Sauvie thread, tink had suggested using 9:45 instead of 10, and it looks like Billylee shaved it to 9:50. Can we get further clarification on 9:45/9:50 and see if we should take a few more minutes off here? TIA!

 

[stmarysmead]

You may have missed the comment I made about considering Andrea's statement about seeing TH at FM early enough to complete her (Andrea's) shopping, drive to another store, and arrive before opening at 10:00 A.M.

I, therefore, consider the departure time of 10:00 A.M. as too late for TH from the second store.

Perhaps this should be incorporated in some way. Thanx...

BTW...a great deal of the timeline is premised on TH's email. I am not sure that this is a reliable source.

Maybe it would be interesting to construct two timelines, the one that allows the shortest time between FM #2 and the gym and the one that allows the greatest time between the two. MOO, IMO, etc.

BBM...Thank you...This is absolutely key. IMO the timeline should only consist of what we can verify other ways...not Terri.

I also remember that at one point Desiree mentioned quite a longer period of time that Terri could not account for. Might be a slip of words or might be Desiree knows that some of these things we are using for timeline markers..LE was able later to discount.

I do think Desiree often gives us new clues in her despair.

Just speculating of course.

 

[Tink56]

We were trying to use the shortest possible times. This looks like the most recent shot at it:




Tink, if see a way to shorten it more, please jump in. Do you mean using 9:45 instead of 9:50?

Billylee, the Dateline route was 26 minutes IIRC. In the Sauvie timeline thread, there's a post by freefallzzz on it being shorter to use Corn Pass, with a time of 24 minutes. Is that incorporated?

Freefall and Kimster, is it shorter than 24 minutes do you think? If so, how much shorter?

I just woke up, and I could be reading this whole thing wrong. Need coffee. Badly.

Not being local, I'm not sure whether it should be 9:50 or 9:30...maybe someone who knows the bookstore to which Andrea refers would be a better guide, but I was thinking more along the lines of 9:45 or earlier.

Thanks for the hard work!

 

[Tink56]

BBM...Thank you...This is absolutely key. IMO the timeline should only consist of what we can verify other ways...not Terri.

I also remember that at one point Desiree mentioned quite a longer period of time that Terri could not account for. Might be a slip of words or might be Desiree knows that some of these things we are using for timeline markers..LE was able later to discount.

I do think Desiree often gives us new clues in her despair.

Just speculating of course.

UGH! I remember Desiree saying this also, but I don't have time to dig through the video tapes right now. I do think LE has a much different timeline than the general public...if I haven't lost my ability to read between the lines...

 

[BeanE]

BBM...Thank you...This is absolutely key. IMO the timeline should only consist of what we can verify other ways...not Terri.

I also remember that at one point Desiree mentioned quite a longer period of time that Terri could not account for. Might be a slip of words or might be Desiree knows that some of these things we are using for timeline markers..LE was able later to discount.

I do think Desiree often gives us new clues in her despair.

Just speculating of course.

By all means, SMM, jump into the thread and post any alternate timelines. That's the idea - look at it every way we can, in order to surface ideas. Nothing is written in cement.

I don't think we have "the" timeline for any of this. Just a bunch of "a" timelines.


Tink, thanks so much. Maybe freefall or loves2bmom could give us some ideas for refinement on the bookstore info.

 

[BeanE]

On Desiree, it's the 25 minute audio w/Oregonian where she says she thought two hours were unaccounted for, but that she hadn't known about some things did, like the grocery stores. I could swear I transcribed that part, but I just searched, and can't find it.

Link in the reference forum in the all parents interviews thread.


There's one other interview I recall where Desiree said something like she could remember what she ate that morning, but Terri didn't remember what she did. I don't think she gave a specific timeframe in that one.

 

[BeanE]

For reference, the interview with Andrea:

http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/loca...er-encounter-with/ZRn4GrYpt0a0BAxulU8rEA.cspx

ETA:


Andrea: It was definitely somewhere between like 9:30 and 10 o'clock, because I, I know that I was going to Borders right after, and I was on the way to Borders before 10 o'clock.

 

[Jo in Calif]

Fact: Terri Horman drove from Skyline Elem. School to Sauvie Island and then to Beaverton, Oregon.

If I am understanding this quote, it is saying that Terri left the school, either 8:45 or 9:00, and went straight to SI, then back to Beaverton.
If Andrea saw her in the 2nd FM. it would put Terri in Beaverton at that time, between 9:30 and 10:00.
Has any one mapped that trip out, starting at the school, SI, back to the 2nd FM?
This theory, IMO would leave Terri going back to the 1st FM, to either find a receipt, or there was someone at that store at 9:12 to get the receipt for her.

I don't see how this could be done, unless Andrea was way off on the time.

 

[Melanie]

Between 10:10 in the morning and 11:39, Terri claimed she drove her daughter Kiara around on rural roads in the family’s white truck because Kiara had an earache. She claimed she was trying to soothe the toddler with the motion of the vehicle.

But what bothers me is if she couldn't soothe baby K - why go to the gym? Wouldn't a mothers instinct be to take the baby home and comfort them - not plop them down in a gym day care?

At 11:39 a.m., Terri checked in at a 24-hour Fitness in Beaverton on Waterhouse Avenue and worked out for about an hour until 12:40 p.m.

Then,

By 1:21, Terri claimed she'd traveled home - a distance of nearly 11 miles - and was posting photos on Facebook she'd taken that morning of Kyron standing with his science project and of his friend, Kurtis, standing with his.

Did she stop for even a second to change baby K's diaper, give her some juice, put her down for a nap. After all, it had been a long morning for a sick toddler.

I've always said this story didn't sit well with me then, and it doesn't sit well with me today.

MOO

Mel

ETA link: http://www.katu.com/news/99151549.html

 

[freefallzzzz]

Is this the post in question? Perpaps Freefallz was quoting the Google times and subsequent to this post...has made the drive herself and found it "much faster" than the time stated. That makes sense.




"Good work on the timeline =)

From being a local, one thing stood out, which I bolded above..

I know locals can pitch in, but when I go up over Corn Pass and I'm closer to 185th than Corn Pass I go up 185th as the traffic is not that bad.

I think going 26 to 405 to 30 then to Corn Pass is not a usual way to go. (I was surprised on the drive time though!)

Plus, if anyone is exploring the DS theory, if you go to the link below-the one for Walker Rd FM to Sheltered Nook, and just move the little blue line around, google switches the drive path for you..
(Yeah, just found this out)
And going up 185th, normally you turn left on Germantown then right onto Corn Pass but you could easily go right to Germantown/Old Germantown.

There are so many possibilities but after seeing searchers clear out on the graveled part of Reeder Rd, that's a long drive.. I'm with the belief if anyone is doing a timeline, go with the furthest distance as LE was out there searching..?? JMO

Link to map of Sauvie Island Bridge to where I saw searchers on Reeder Rd
right before you turn left to go to Gilbert River Access / Boat Ramp
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sour...,0.146255&z=13

Link to picture of searchers on Reeder Rd - look at map link above, this is where they were at..
http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t...&current=a.jpg


Here is the map between Walker Rd FM and Sheltered Nook
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sour...1&ie=UTF8&z=12

NW Cornelius Pass Rd
10.7 mi 24mins

15995 SW Walker Rd
Beaverton, OR 97006
1. Head southeast on SW Walker Rd toward NW 158th Ave
0.1 mi
2. Take the 1st left onto NW 158th Ave
0.9 mi
3. Turn left at NW Cornell Rd
0.1 mi
4. Take the 1st right onto NW Bethany Blvd
0.2 mi
5. Turn left to merge onto US-26 W toward Ocean Beaches
1.1 mi
6. Take exit 64 for 185th Ave toward P.C.C- Rock Cr
0.3 mi
7. Turn right at NW 185th Ave
2.6 mi
8. Turn left at NW Germantown Rd
0.3 mi
9. Take the 1st right onto NW Old Cornelius Pass Rd
486 ft
10. Slight right at NW Cornelius Pass Rd
4.4 mi
11. Turn left at NW Sheltered Nook Rd
0.2 mi
12. Slight right to stay on NW Sheltered Nook Rd
0.3 mi

NW Sheltered Nook Rd
Portland, OR 97231

THIS TIMELINE IS FROM FM TO SHELTERED NOOK RD!! =)


I had changed a portion of someone else's post for a travel route =)

When I took Kimster I'm thinking that since we did not do a direct route from FM to Sauvie's (did a few detours) that going from the school to Sauvie's seemed shorter..??

Sorry I was not paying more attention to the dateline program and the posting.
I see that the Dateline 26 minutes as far as I can tell is going Hwy 26, east to Portland, then exit to Hwy 30 and go west on Hwy 30 to Sauvie's.

LOCALS please pitch in here, but from living on this side (the south) side of the West Hills, and anyone who lives near FM on Walker or even up by the school, IMO, would NOT go down Hwy 26 to Hwy 30 then to Sauvie's.

I think as I posted way back (above post) I was surprised at the drive time.

Once you get on Hwy 26 closer to Portland, you start getting into freeway traffic and I just don't think that would be a preferred route, so many accidents on Hwy 26...

Locals??? Help??? =)

**update**

I cannot find 26 minutes now, I've messed w/the map too much.

Anyone have that route? Maybe it isn't the one I thought (The Dateline one)

UPDATE
Found it, it is the one I think is a way a local would not go..???

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sou...,-122.748184&spn=0.119524,0.292511&z=12&via=1

 

[stmarysmead]

Between 10:10 in the morning and 11:39, Terri claimed she drove her daughter Kiara around on rural roads in the family’s white truck because Kiara had an earache. She claimed she was trying to soothe the toddler with the motion of the vehicle.

But what bothers me is if she couldn't soothe baby K - why go to the gym? Wouldn't a mothers instinct be to take the baby home and comfort them - not plop them down in a gym day care?

At 11:39 a.m., Terri checked in at a 24-hour Fitness in Beaverton on Waterhouse Avenue and worked out for about an hour until 12:40 p.m.

Then,

By 1:21, Terri claimed she'd traveled home - a distance of nearly 11 miles - and was posting photos on Facebook she'd taken that morning of Kyron standing with his science project and of his friend, Kurtis, standing with his.

Did she stop for even a second to change baby K's diaper, give her some juice, put her down for a nap. After all, it had been a long morning for a sick toddler.

I've always said this story didn't sit well with me then, and it doesn't sit well with me today.

MOO

Mel

ETA link: http://www.katu.com/news/99151549.html

This doesn't sit well with me either. When she left the house with Baby K, she would only have expected to run to the school, take a few pictures and maybe run an errand.

When did they leave home...before 8AM?...so with an "unexpected " decision to drive around...she has that Baby out for almost 5 hours. That's a long time.

So...she had food, diapers, bottle..., the child's lunch and snack...all conveniently ready for an EXTENDED trip? Why if she hadn't planned it?