2011.02.19 - Desiree puts on the pressure in Roseburg

[gwenabob]

I went onto Roseburg's local newspaper's website and a search came up with only 16 articles about Kyron since he went missing in June. I found that kind of strange since a major player from the case is living there. There wasn't one article published from July to February about the case. Is there a reason why the local paper is barely mentioning this case? (Hopefully this post isn't considered to be OT).

I have been wondering this myself. No wonder people have no idea Terri is living there or who Desiree is. I don't get it!

 

[gwenabob]

Its also a good way to humiliate and put pressure on a kid who doesn't deserve to have his classmates gossiping about his family when he doesn't have any part in the situation. That said, maybe he doesn't even go to school there like someone else said. If so, then it isn't such a big deal. Well, no more of a big deal than having to see a close relative's photo plastered all over town essentially accusing her of a horrific crime which NOBODY has any evidence she is guilty of.

bbm

According to Desiree, LE has shown her plenty of evidence. Perhaps the DA wants a body before an arrest is made. But I think your assertion that there is no evidence is false.

And if J**** is being bothered by the publicity, perhaps now would be a good time for him to leave Roseburg and all the mess his mother created and live with his adoptive father who has been dutifully paying child support all these years. Might be best for everyone involved.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Articles could have been deleted for space, I've seen that happen on other news sites.

You would think that they would delete articles that are much older if that were the case. They have articles as far back as 1997 on Roseburg's website.

I also did a search on Medford's local newspaper's website and I could only find 16 articles, again, for Kyron. Perhaps it's a "That's Portland news" attitude?

 

[4BB]

Desiree, Tony, and Kaine all seem to put the interests of children first. They would meet up to do a swap off for visitation so I'm sure Desiree has a place in her heart for J (Terri's son) I doubt she would willingly cause him any emotional pain. He probably doesn't even go to that school.

 

[Jack]

bbm

According to Desiree, LE has shown her plenty of evidence. Perhaps the DA wants a body before an arrest is made. But I think your assertion that there is no evidence is false.

And if J**** is being bothered by the publicity, perhaps now would be a good time for him to leave Roseburg and all the mess his mother created and live with his adoptive father who has been dutifully paying child support all these years. Might be best for everyone involved.

I think you all are reading way too much into what 'evidence' DY has seen. She hasn't seen anything thats strong enough for an arrest, or there would be one. And if there was overwhelming evidence as DY said then they certainly wouldn't be waiting to find a body. If there is enough evidence to prove TH harmed Kyron then the lack of a body would not be any reason to hold off from an arrest. I think DY is exaggerating. She's in much pain so who can blame her, but it still isn't helping.

I also don't think an innocent party should have to be uprooted for something they have no control over. Why would that be better than just letting the innocent people live in peace?

 

[gitana1]

What is it that the police from all these different agencies have said they have that you think they have right? To my knowledge they have not named a suspect, they haven't arrested anyone. That tells me they have a lot less than people want to believe they have. This case has had so many people make statements as though they are fact when the reality is that its speculation.

I agree with Billylee, DY isn't doing herself any favors right now, and regardless of who may or may not be involved in Kyron's disappearance NOBODY should be asking anyone to target a kid for any reason. I'm really shocked that so many people seem to think thats okay. It isn't.

The police have said very little but it is eminently clear by their tactics (flyers, searches, witnesses questioned, GJ proceedings and GJ witnesses) and by the statements of the parents in this case, who have stated some of what LE has told them, what LE believe. So, while we basically have zero confirmed information from LE, many of the "facts" as we assume them to be have been essentially confirmed by the legal pleadings of KH and the searches (which happen to be in the same place we heard TH's cell phone pinged). The reaction of TH to those "facts", namely, giving up her daughter, confirms for many what we have reason to believe.

Does LE have enough for an arrest? I have said repeatedly, that I think they do. Do they have enough to sustain a conviction? I don't think the DA is ready to take that chance. That does not, though, belie what it is apparent LE believes, in the least and it sure does not mean TH should not be held accountable. There was not enough evidence to convict Van Der Sloot for Natalie Holloway's murder. There still likely is not. That did not deter Natalie's mom from going down to Aruba, knocking on Van Der Sloot's door, holding press conferences to the chagrin of LE and making sure no one forgot about her daughter and the obvious suspect in the case, and in her dignity and determination, becoming a hero to many of us around the world.

Also, how is what DY doing detrimental to her? She is well within her legal rights to do what she is doing and she was canny enough to reignite interest in a case that has been rapidly disappearing from the collective conscious. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. She's bringing attention to her son's case so he can be found and justice can be served. Far from being adverse to her interests, she is doing herself a huge favor in this regard. Squeak on, Desiree!

 

[cluciano63]

I don't mind Desiree doing whatever she needs to do. I just don't think it will help to:
a: find Kyron
b: make Terri speak
c: push LE to make an arrest sooner than they are ready.

But maybe it makes her feel better, that's Ok with me.

 

[Jack]

The police have said very little but it is eminently clear by their tactics (flyers, searches, witnesses questioned, GJ proceedings and GJ witnesses) and by the statements of the parents in this case, who have stated some of what LE has told them, what LE believe. So, while we basically have zero confirmed information from LE, many of the "facts" as we assume them to be have been essentially confirmed by the legal pleadings of KH and the searches (which happen to be in the same place we heard TH's cell phone pinged). The reaction of TH to those "facts", namely, giving up her daughter, confirms for many what we have reason to believe.

Does LE have enough for an arrest? I have said repeatedly, that I think they do. Do they have enough to sustain a conviction? I don't think the DA is ready to take that chance. That does not, though, belie what it is apparent LE believes, in the least and it sure does not mean TH should not be held accountable. There was not enough evidence to convict Van Der Sloot for Natalie Holloway's murder. There still likely is not. That did not deter Natalie's mom from going down to Aruba, knocking on Van Der Sloot's door, holding press conferences to the chagrin of LE and making sure no one forgot about her daughter and the obvious suspect in the case, and in her dignity and determination, becoming a hero to many of us around the world.

Also, how is what DY doing detrimental to her? She is well within her legal rights to do what she is doing and she was canny enough to reignite interest in a case that has been rapidly disappearing from the collective conscious. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. She's bringing attention to her son's case so he can be found and justice can be served. Far from being adverse to her interests, she is doing herself a huge favor in this regard. Squeak on, Desiree!

Of course people are going to see what they want to see, from day 1 there have been people bashing TH. Those people wont even consider another possibility. They take every little snipppit of information and twist it just enough to fit their thoery and then speak as though it is fact. No use arguing with them, you could have proof someone else took Kyron and they'd still be convinced she was involved. I don't know if she was or not, but I'll see some real evidence before I accuse her.

I'll disagree with there being enough for an arrest. But first let me say I do understand they could arrest her for suspicion, so when I say not enough evidence for an arrest I mean no evidence that will stand up in court. So IMO, they don't have any evidence to prove TH did anything to Kyron. If they did they would arrest her and let that evidence stand up to scrutiny.

I agree DY is effectively keeping her son in the spotlight. That probably is the only goal she has right now so probably that outweighs any negatives for her. She probably isn't doing anything illegal, didn't indicate she was but I don't think DY is helping her case for several reasons. First and foremost because her actions are indicating she doesn't have confidence in the case against TH(if indeed there is a case against TH). If she did she would let LE do what needs to be done confident that they are on the right track and going at the right pace. Secondly, if by chance it is found that someone else is responsible for Kyron's abduction then that person's defense is going to use every accusation DY made against TH as a case for reasonable doubt. Lastly, and I've said this before, people stop listening when they feel there is a 'spurned woman' behind the accusations. There is a bit of history between TH and DY and marriage to KH.

 

[gitana1]

I don't mind Desiree doing whatever she needs to do. I just don't think it will help to:
a: find Kyron
b: make Terri speak
c: push LE to make an arrest sooner than they are ready.

But maybe it makes her feel better, that's Ok with me.

But you are aware that LE and profilers use pressure tactics all the time to try to get suspects to make a mistake? I do think that it's a long shot with TH but what if it works? What if she can't stand it, gets drunk and lets something slip, even something small, that leads to something bigger? Unless they find Kyron, pressure may be their best shot.

 

[Knox]

Of course people are going to see what they want to see, from day 1 there have been people bashing TH. Those people wont even consider another possibility. They take every little snipppit of information and twist it just enough to fit their thoery and then speak as though it is fact. No use arguing with them, you could have proof someone else took Kyron and they'd still be convinced she was involved. I don't know if she was or not, but I'll see some real evidence before I accuse her.

I'll disagree with there being enough for an arrest. But first let me say I do understand they could arrest her for suspicion, so when I say not enough evidence for an arrest I mean no evidence that will stand up in court. So IMO, they don't have any evidence to prove TH did anything to Kyron. If they did they would arrest her and let that evidence stand up to scrutiny.

I agree DY is effectively keeping her son in the spotlight. That probably is the only goal she has right now so probably that outweighs any negatives for her. She probably isn't doing anything illegal, didn't indicate she was but I don't think DY is helping her case for several reasons. First and foremost because her actions are indicating she doesn't have confidence in the case against TH(if indeed there is a case against TH). If she did she would let LE do what needs to be done confident that they are on the right track and going at the right pace. Secondly, if by chance it is found that someone else is responsible for Kyron's abduction then that person's defense is going to use every accusation DY made against TH as a case for reasonable doubt. Lastly, and I've said this before, people stop listening when they feel there is a 'spurned woman' behind the accusations. There is a bit of history between TH and DY and marriage to KH.

Really? You're entitled to your opinion and I respect everyone's right to feel differently than I. But IMO your last sentence is ...
Are you suggesting Desiree's actions in Roseberg are simply those of a spurned woman?

 

[Jack]

[/B]

Really?

Wow, so are you suggesting Desiree's actions in Roseberg are simply those of a spurned woman?

LOL, if thats what you got out of that then anything I say wont matter. Think what you wish.

 

[Knox]

Thank you Jack.

 

[gitana1]

Of course people are going to see what they want to see, from day 1 there have been people bashing TH. Those people wont even consider another possibility. They take every little snipppit of information and twist it just enough to fit their thoery and then speak as though it is fact. No use arguing with them, you could have proof someone else took Kyron and they'd still be convinced she was involved. I don't know if she was or not, but I'll see some real evidence before I accuse her.

I was on the fence in the beginning and I never bashed. I don't care if she was divorced a bunch of times, had a DUI, was arrested for child endangerment, drove a red sport's car, drank heavily, took steroids, was Kaine's mistress, etc. (LOL!) None of it affected my feelings about this case and I really believe that most people on these boards, although they discuss these things as if they matter, realize they don't and did not let those things affect what they believe about TH's guilt or innocence. I have been on this site for several years and what I see here is a cross-section of people from various professions, usually very logical and intelligent. They are not simply seeing what they want to see. I know I'm not. All of the superfluous info was nonsense to me. What threw me off the fence was one thing: TH was accused by KH of trying to have him killed and of being involved in the disappearance of his son. Rather than answer those allegations, TH gave up her child. For someone who works in family law, this was enough for me.

By the way, 99% of those of us who are convinced of TH's guilt would change our minds in a second if presented with solid evidence that another was guilty. We are not screaming idiots here at all.
I'll disagree with there being enough for an arrest. But first let me say I do understand they could arrest her for suspicion, so when I say not enough evidence for an arrest I mean no evidence that will stand up in court. So IMO, they don't have any evidence to prove TH did anything to Kyron. If they did they would arrest her and let that evidence stand up to scrutiny.

The lack of an arrest does not prove there is NO evidence that TH did anything to Kyron. It just proves there may not be enough of that evidence to satisfy the DA that this case is ready for trial. There is a big difference and I see that mistake in logic (with respect!) often. Cases that take awhile to result in charges often have tons of evidence, just not that one last thing that tips a whole load of evidence into something that makes the DA think the odds are in their favor.

I agree DY is effectively keeping her son in the spotlight. That probably is the only goal she has right now so probably that outweighs any negatives for her. She probably isn't doing anything illegal, didn't indicate she was but I don't think DY is helping her case for several reasons. First and foremost because her actions are indicating she doesn't have confidence in the case against TH(if indeed there is a case against TH). If she did she would let LE do what needs to be done confident that they are on the right track and going at the right pace.

I disagree. We all know that LE has requested funds on several occasions and that they don't have the unlimited resources to do what they would like. Many victim's families campaign hard during an investigation to make sure their family member's case gets the public attention it deserves. I don't see that as an indication that they lack confidence in LE, but rather, that they need to be doing something and that they want to help as much as they can. I don't think that worries the public in general.

Secondly, if by chance it is found that someone else is responsible for Kyron's abduction then that person's defense is going to use every accusation DY made against TH as a case for reasonable doubt.

This does not make sense, with respect. First, if there is a strong case against such a person, it shouldn't matter and second IMO, it is very unlikely that such a person exists. But most important, what DY is doing with her valiant flyer campaign is not what such a person would need to use to create reasonable doubt. She says TH knows where her son is. What KH has alleged in his legal pleadings is far more detailed and specific.That's what such a person would use.

Lastly, and I've said this before, people stop listening when they feel there is a 'spurned woman' behind the accusations. There is a bit of history between TH and DY and marriage to KH.

I think what affects most listeners is not the quiet dignity and determination of a grieving mom you deem "spurned", but rather, the silence of the last adult known to have seen her son alive.

(My responses are in blue).

 

[Amster]

LOL....Terri is to be left alone, to live in peace because of her son??

That is just so wrong....:innocent:

 

[Kimster]

Of course people are going to see what they want to see, from day 1 there have been people bashing TH. Those people wont even consider another possibility. They take every little snipppit of information and twist it just enough to fit their thoery and then speak as though it is fact. No use arguing with them, you could have proof someone else took Kyron and they'd still be convinced she was involved. I don't know if she was or not, but I'll see some real evidence before I accuse her.
.

Tell you what, since day 1 I've seen members complaining about each other on both sides. Some want to see hard evidence and others feel the evidence is clear.

If it doesn't stop immediately, there will be zero tolerance from the mods and time outs will start up again. State your opinion if you'd like, but complaining about opposing opinions ends here and now.

And this isn't just about this post. It's about this one and all others like it. It's getting really old, folks.

 

[Billylee]

I still have only one question for those who think the "evidence is clear". What evidence are you referring to? What evidence is Desiree referring to?

I guess, because this is an ongoing investigation we are not allowed to see the evidence everyone is referring to, but I for one cannot form an opinion about a case without it. Oh yes, my mind runs and has run for 8 months now, up and down the scale, because of some suspicous activities, but WHAT evidence are we talking about here? I have heard there is none, although according to Desiree & Tony Young there is "overwhelming" evidence. It can't be both. There either IS evidence or there is not. If there is, and it is "overwhelming" there is no doubt in my mind that Terri would be in jail. So I assume there is not "overwhelming" evidence. Does that mean there is none? No, but it does mean whatever they (LE) have isn't enough to put Terri away. So, IDK, seems like the same arguments are going on and on and on here. And IMO, there's a reason for that.....a total lack of knowledge....knowledge of the case and what's really going on. We have none. Therefore, speculation runs on and on and on.

(Sorry if this post comes out weird, I've got a new laptop and am not used to it yet and spell check doesn't seem to work either )

 

[gitana1]

I still have only one question for those who think the "evidence is clear". What evidence are you referring to? What evidence is Desiree referring to?

I guess, because this is an ongoing investigation we are not allowed to see the evidence everyone is referring to, but I for one cannot form an opinion about a case without it. Oh yes, my mind runs and has run for 8 months now, up and down the scale, because of some suspicous activities, but WHAT evidence are we talking about here? I have heard there is none, although according to Desiree & Tony Young there is "overwhelming" evidence. It can't be both. There either IS evidence or there is not. If there is, and it is "overwhelming" there is no doubt in my mind that Terri would be in jail. So I assume there is not "overwhelming" evidence. Does that mean there is none? No, but it does mean whatever they (LE) have isn't enough to put Terri away. So, IDK, seems like the same arguments are going on and on and on here. And IMO, there's a reason for that.....a total lack of knowledge....knowledge of the case and what's really going on. We have none. Therefore, speculation runs on and on and on.

(Sorry if this post comes out weird, I've got a new laptop and am not used to it yet and spell check doesn't seem to work either )

Good questions. Speaking for myself, I have no certainty what evidence LE actually has but Kaine's statements in his pleadings infer a great deal as does TH's reaction to his suit. I would venture to guess that to DY, KH and LE, the evidence that LE has is overwhelming, but that it may not be overwhelming enough to bring to a jury right now, in the DA's opinion.

For example, I am convinced that based on TH's actions in regard to her daughter, she is guilty. But without more, I would not be able to vote guilty beyond a reasonable doubt if I were a juror on the case because the legal standard differs from instinct combined with experience, and facts that are inadmissible as "evidence", etc. I would sit on that jury and believe TH was guilty but probably not be able to vote yes without more than just that. And for those intimately involved in this case, who know much more about nuances, many of which may be inadmissible, whatever evidence there is becomes that much more significant, even if not enough to bring to trial.

Do I think they have more? I sure do. But I also know that the DA is a political machine and they do not like to take unnecessary chances. There is no statute of limitations here. They can wait if need be.

I guess this may be a question of semantics. If you knew a person and knew their character and knew when they were lying and was told they were the last person to see your missing kid, and that said person admitted to driving around inexplicably on back country roads for hours with a sick baby at the time your kid went missing, and that she failed lie detector tests, gave up custody of her baby to avoid answering questions related to your child, may have attempted to kill her husband, purchased several disposable phones for herself and friends after the investigation began, may have created purposeful confusion about whether your son would be in school on th4e day he disappeared, engaged in a lurid internet/phone sexual relationship with a new guy only weeks after your child, the boy she helped raised, disappeared, and sent e-mails describing her dislike of your son and belief that he was ruining her marriage, etc., well, coupled with her mannerisms that indicate to you she is lying and firsthand knowledge that something was making your child not want to go back to her care, all of that "evidence" would seem overwhelming to you.

Hopefully, we will see one day what they have. In the meantime, I understand that good LE, who get to witness firsthand, the reactions, attitudes, speech patterns and demeanor of various witnesses and possible suspects, as well as the overall smell of the case, realize a lot more than we do about why a particular person needs to be looked at. These things help drive a case forward. If it wasn't for the gut instincts of investigators, and the things that make no sense in context, that they observe, no case would be solved because there would be no reason to delve deeper. Evidence would go undiscovered because there would be no direction.

 

[scandi]

I still have only one question for those who think the "evidence is clear". What evidence are you referring to? What evidence is Desiree referring to?

I guess, because this is an ongoing investigation we are not allowed to see the evidence everyone is referring to, but I for one cannot form an opinion about a case without it. Oh yes, my mind runs and has run for 8 months now, up and down the scale, because of some suspicous activities, but WHAT evidence are we talking about here? I have heard there is none, although according to Desiree & Tony Young there is "overwhelming" evidence. It can't be both. There either IS evidence or there is not. If there is, and it is "overwhelming" there is no doubt in my mind that Terri would be in jail. So I assume there is not "overwhelming" evidence. Does that mean there is none? No, but it does mean whatever they (LE) have isn't enough to put Terri away. So, IDK, seems like the same arguments are going on and on and on here. And IMO, there's a reason for that.....a total lack of knowledge....knowledge of the case and what's really going on. We have none. Therefore, speculation runs on and on and on.

(Sorry if this post comes out weird, I've got a new laptop and am not used to it yet and spell check doesn't seem to work either )

Hi Billylee, I think LE working with the prosecutor are going to do what best advances the case to being solved. LE has said they believe there is another person involved. Could it be the powers involved don't want anything to jeopardize nailing this other person? They know where TH is and she must not be a flight risk. Maybe LE knows who this other person is and are simply watching them and waiting for a slip up. Then it will be Wham Bam, Thank you M'am and we will see an arrest/s. Either that or they are waiting for Kyron to be found IMO.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Yes, I agree McCain is a media hound, but I don't think he's DS's attorney. I was wondering the same thing Grainne, could it be that Desiree & Tony have hired a PI, because they are dissatisfied with LE's handling of things? It would be interesting to know, but I'm with you, I don't think this maneuver by Desiree is going to help find Kyron.

And I want to say this again; of course, people in Roseburg (and the surrounding communities) most certainly know of Kyron's case, I know this for a fact. One needs to remember that not only did Terri grow up there, but her parents are highly respected people in the area. It's not like they live out on some rural piece of property and never got in to town. They were teachers for cryin' out loud. If Desiree or anyone else, doesn't think that Roseburg knows of Kyron's case, then it isn't the people of Roseburg that are living under a rock.

I also think this action by Desiree does not bode well for J****, Terri's teenage son. I can just imagine what teenagers might do when basically they are being asked to harass someone. I think the whole thing is scary. JMO

I agree with your opinion.

It takes me a while to think through stuff. Having had a while to think about this latest development, I started wondering if I were a detective working on Kyron's disappearance, convinced that TMH is guilty, how would I be feeling about TMH doing stuff like going out to bars in Roseburg?

Well, I'd be jumping up and down, stuffing my fingers in my mouth and giggling! I'd be hoping that since direct pressure hadn't loosened her tongue, maybe good company and a little alcohol for lubrication would do the trick. Easy enough to have one or more undercover officers hanging out in the bar(s) she is seen at.

And I think I'd hope that DY's actions had not closed down that potential source of information.

 

[Billylee]

Gitana, I agree with you, gut feelings of investigators may well be what solve crimes, but like you said, it takes evidence to prove guilt. I have prayed since the beginning, that LE is following the right path. If they are not, Kyron's disappearance becomes all the more tragic....broken families, suffering children, and the possibility of the persecution of an innocent person. We all know that LE has to start somehwere, and starting with the last person to see that missing or deceased person alive is where one starts. That would be Terri (although, I guess we still don't know if the original reports from the children contradict this or not). I pray that they have much, much more than that, but I've not seen it. I've not heard it. The facts that I've actually seen come from LE mouths is: Terri was the last one to see Kyron. She is not a suspect. She is cooperating. (Which was changed to cooperating at times and at other times not.) Something about cell phone pings, except I can't really remember LE ever coming out and saying that either, seems like it was from a source of a source or something.

Everything else in this case seems to have come from someone other than LE, that's what puzzles me. I hope the GJ has been given some credible evidence to work with, that is all I can hope. I put my faith in LE to solve this case and bring Kyron home and justice to those that betrayed him. That is my prayer.