2011.06.04 TRIAL Day Ten (Morning Session ONLY)

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
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JB w/Lowe

@ end of day science will say consistent w/decomp but not sure ever get to the day that they will say this hair came from a dead body....

if a hair been associated......similar to a hair in hairbrush belonging to Caylee but couldn't exclude all others.....told belonging to Caylee...don't know if kc and caylee used the same brush? identified as Caylee brush....

given any info about CA giving a brush (object- sustained)

idenfication of the hair who belong to would have been critical to the case.....common enviornment...how other hairs may have been there....
can do nuclear dna test if tissue present.....
missing child with hair w/banding @ root.....
not sent to (object-sustained)

never sent hair for nuclear dna - no tissue present.....not a dna analyst (object-sustaiend) you are not the one makes that call....actually part of Ms. Lowe job....if she is unsure of a hair with very small amt of tissue she will ask conference w/dna anaylst....if dna could have been obtained from that area.....

best we have it could have belonged to kc, Caylee, CA or even SP (CA's mom)

hair in common enviornment.....hairs in trunk is not uncommon ... avg person looses over 100 hairs per day....shed one hair to another called transfer.....

if one transfer hair to someone and then onto another person - secondary transfer....
I don't know if hairs are primary or secondary transfer.

if there are more hairs ....large number of hairs in an area suggest primary but cannot say secondary transfer

primary or 2ndary transfer with only 1 hair.....can't say how hair got there.....consistent with contact or transfer but don't know.....


Redirect-

JA=long standing FBI policy ....statement in reports as far back as 70's hairs are not positive identifcation....as soon as Mito-dna started use that to confirm.....Lowe's report came out a year before FBI had that language.....

this hair may have not been forcibly removed....this is not a naturally shed hair....still in growth stage part of kerotin is soft.....found one hair with post-mortem hair band....mito dna is method ....child, child mother, anyone maternal..grandmother .....maternal uncle....eliminates other maternal relatives under microscopic exam.....in this case did you eliminate kc? that hair is microscopically dissimilar to kc......could be another relative with 9" long light brown hair.....potentially not a blond hair member of maternal family....that hair (Q-12) was not treated.....hair from hair brush......naturally shed hair? look at notes.....did that hair have root band found in Q-12- did not......whatever happend.....assuming Q-12 is Caylee hair and hairbrush hair of Caylee .....whatever happened to her hair was not natural to the hair ....

JB- cross:

a pulled hair ......object sustained
don't know how long that hair had been in that condition.....don't know history of kc hair treatments....don't know....all can base it on ....only known sample.....

characteristics but that is all I can say w/certainty

witness excuse:








 
JA: longstanding FBI policy?

yes, as far back as the 70s...(he, he...I am old...as far back as the seventies... :)

JA: so this is something you all have been doing for years.

correct

JA: the hair with the decomp, did you say that was an andogyn hair?

it is not a telogyn hair

JA: naturally shed...this one was not naturally shed?

correct

JA: you looked at a lot of hairs and you found one to sum this up.

correct

JA: everybody has the same mitochrondrial hair?

anyone who is maternally related

JA: the combo of the micro scopic and mitochondrial both help to identify

yes

JA: was the hair treated in any way

no

JA: the hair from the brush, Caylee's was that a naturally shed hair?

I have to look at my notes, it is not listed in my notes.

JA: did it have the root banding?

it did not

JA: assuming that is her hair

? she agreed but said...?

JA: the hair in the Q12 hair is Caylees and the hair brush what happened to Caylee's hair is not natural?

correct

JB: a pulled hair is more likely to have tissue

potentially

JB: you said this is pulled hair so it is more likely it had tissue.

objection
sustained

Here we go, if this thing happens then it must have happened here, right?


and you can't say, and you don't know and at the end of the day you can't say it came from a dead body...

HHJP: may the witness be excused.

IMHO: HHJP does NOT like how the defense USED the law this morning.
 
I would think it would have been helpful if a percentage could have been given....in other words, if she can't say 100% that the banded hair came from a dead body, what is the percentage that it did?
 
The car still smelled of decomp. I'm not too worried about one hair potentially not coming from a dead body.
 
This is too convoluted. They need to keep it simple. What is the point of this? A couple of the jurors are not going to be able to come close to following this imo.

Especially for a Saturday. The discussion actually had me wondering if the death banding may have to do something with the phase of growth it's in when death occurs. That's way too deep for me. :great:
 
"The Q-12 hair, assuming the one in the brush and the Q-12 hair were Caylee's, whatever happened in the root banding hair was not natural to her hair."

That didn't make sense to me. I guess he's trying to say the band is not "natural" it's due to decomp. But it was confusing.
 
CFNews13Casey

Tall male juror just checked watch. Yawn.
less than 10 seconds ago via Twitter for iPad
 
Mike Vincent with OCSO crime scene unit takes the stand.

by cfnews13casey via twitter at 8:52 AM
 
This is too convoluted. They need to keep it simple. What is the point of this? A couple of the jurors are not going to be able to come close to following this imo.

i totally agree - and that's JB's point. It doesn't matter so much what he actually says - its how much confusion he is able to dump in the pot.
 
Mike Vincent with OSCO giving his background

attended over 30 crime scene related schools
 
Why the heck is JB doing this cross? Why have DS there? Is JB's ego so big and his disdain for JA so broad that he feels HE has to be the one to get this new type of evidence, the PMDB, discounted by the jury? Well, it ain't working, JB......this witness is connecting with the jury......flubbing a test TEN years ago does not make her incompetent, JB! JMO

Great point! That makes sense. He wants the credit for discounting the evidence, can't let Sims get the credit, now can we?
 
Even Judge Perry mentioned the other day that ICA has FIVE lawyers sitting on her DT. So phhhhfffttt goes the ineffective counsel appeal. ICA is mentally competent to stand trial therefore she can choose her lawyer and her defense.

With a recommendation from another inmate, no less.
 
I hate to say it but he's made a good case by pointing out that only one hair out of all that she tested showed the banding. Making me, looking at it as a juror, think it might just be a mistake. JMO

I completely understand.

But if it fits into a logical scenario presented by the state, would you give it some weight?

I personally would.
 
the thing that i would be thinking is "one hair with characteristics of human decomposition is one too many." it shouldn't be there. caylee's hair shouldn't show signs of decomposition at all... Unless of course, she was deceased and in that trunk.

bbm - bingo!
 
This witness is experienced and intelligent! :)
(sorry, I didn't hear his name)

ETA~ He is Mike Vincent with OSCO
 
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