2011.06.06 TRIAL Day Eleven (Morning Session)

[sophie01]

Jb already stating concerns about Dr. Vass...

I'll bet he is !!!

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Barmometric pressure affects odor? Who knew!

This stuff is beyond fascinating, and this witness is just freakin' incredible!

 

[LyndyLoo]

I think his invention is going to come up! I am so glad! JA will get the truth on the record

This new invention became a method of doing just what Cadaveor Dogs did. Interesting indeed, that the seed for this invention came from their (dogs) unique ability...Go Dr. Vass!!

I think JB doesnt want this "historical groundbreaking invention" to be properly brought into courtrooms....I recall all the controversary when DNA was first brought into courts too..

BTW..I think (IMO) that LKB is on the other end of JB's blackberry..giving him points to object, and likely what questions he should be asking...JB really does need assistance with this..He has no clue on how to counteract this powerful testimony!!!

 

[tehcloser]

JB has no emotion in his voice when he objects today, it's flat. ICA looks flat. I think they both know it's over.

 

[twall]

Where are you seeing this? WESH is just showing ICA statue.

This camera zooms out at times and shows the defense table.

http://media2.myfoxorlando.com/live/casey_cam_shell.html

 

[truthsleuth]

Odor of human decomp distinguishable from animal decomp?

Yes.

Baez says it is speculation. ??

 

[angeleleven]

Hearing on saturday was cancelled.

I thought they had a hearing until 1:00 on Saturday.

 

[adb263]

BAez smackdown coming!!

 

[nursebeeme]

baez objected and hhjp has had enough... "approach the bench"

 

[SleuthinginSeattle]

Barometric pressure and its effect on chemicals coming from bodies. It made Baez pretty nervous.

 

[strawberry]

Shouldn't JB stand up to object?

 

[wenwe4]

JB up whining about Dr. Arpad Vass's database is not available for him to look @.....

Dr. A. Vass is 1st witness up for the State....

Sr. Research Scicentist for Oakridge Lab, almost 20 yrs, research scientist anthropolgy, chemistry, microbiology, ......

Bach., Masters in Forensics Science, PhD in Anthropolgy from U. of Tennessee.....working as a med tech while working on his Masters...offered position in Knoxville, learned about Dr. Wm. Bass (?), decomp. process in outdoor setting - The Body Farm, 1988 - 89 timeframe when started.....PhD on Decomp....Dr. Vass likes challenges....determine how long someone has been dead.....biochemical perimeters of human decomp....up to that point in late 80's biochemistry was fairly new....

Anthropoligcal research only facilty in world where to study a whole body decomp events.. outdoor facility a little more than 1 1/2 acres - est. in 1972......1100 test subjects donated to research....human bodies left out (object-overrule) various conditions, there is a vehicle, some studies in trunk and inside veh.....in early 80's post mortem interval....time since death....initial research chemical breakdown....4 components, fluids leak out.....analyzed fluid reproducable to

4 stages ; fresh, bloat, active decay, dry - mummified or skeletonized

Fresh stage decomp - 2 process in early stage ....self digestion process....100 trillion cells in human body.....someone dies suddenly - cells don't know death yet...cell metabolism (object - narritive not a biologist)......carbon dioxide usually removed by respriation builds up inside cells ......carbon dioxide (object- witness not a chemist 0verrulled!) cells made up complex structures ....organelles ....... nucleus, other structures inside a lysizone surrounded by membranes and contain enzymes used to digest food ...enzymes are proteins and digest......

lysizone is single membrane ...cell now become acidic from Co2 as membrane ruptures ...releases ....cells eating themselves....cells liquify interior blisters on the skin...start to see skin slippage ......skin sloughs off the body..

nutrient rich fluids give body moist appearance.....2nd process of decomp begins....putrifaction = bio.....feed on the nutrient rich fluids come from inside the body and on the body......liquify body.......breaking down cell structure

bloat stage?
when microorganisms of intestinal tract of humans....metabolize.....by product of metabolism is production of gas.......(slows him down for court reporter - and me!!!)

metabolism as bacteria use new nutrients now available.....rectal region and esophogus become blocked.....gas has no place to escape....builds up in abdominal region...a bloated abdomen.....eventually finds it way out...


Active decay 40 - 80% of decomp process ....major aspect of liquify occurs.....all organs decay.....leads to skeleton stage.....non-nutritive value ....insects won't eat it (bone)

most important enviornmental factors

4 processes
1) temperature - most import
2) presence of water - from enviornment,body,humiditiy
3) Ph - Acidic or Basic - above 7 alkaline below is acid - (burials aneorbic are acidic )
4) presence of oxygen -

high air temp accelorate decomp.....

During study of post mortem interval....what were you looking @? Liquification - anything in that liquid to determine TOD....didn't know what to look for = screen for compounds. fat & muscle breaks down to volitale fatty acids.....only a few buteryic acid, .....

publish findings once? volitale fatty acids .....analysis of inorganic components ...calcium...variety of inorganic components - normally fatty acids .....as soft tissue goes away....inorganic are there ----sodium........., Journal of Forensic Science.... this was one paper.......developed other methods to determine Time since death......homicides never occur the same way twice ....need toolbox to determine....

research facilty.....during volitle fatty acids - PhD in 1991....worked for Oakridge in 1992....Oakridge Nat. Lab...dept of Enegy runs Nat. Lab's in ....largest research .....4-5K employees, key areas of research large complicated projects require multi-disciplinary teams to investigate.....climate change -biofuels, neutrons, material sciences, super computers....homeland security.....

the Lab has a broad range of disciplines....beyond Energy related items.....multi-discipline .....research scientist have to know multiple fields.....looking @ new types food plants that make ethenol or fuel products.....my expertise in micro-biology.......

did there come time when you felt all you could do on post mortem.....yes after the 3rd model....how tissue breaks ....protein to amino acid breakdown......cutting edge......after that point bio-chemically reached limit of knowledge .....early 2000 or 2001 and began another project

he likes challenges .....up til that point thought time since death was most difficult question....he liked that challenge ---he was wrong (object)
why move into another area?

detection of clandestine graves...always problematic....looking @ ways to improve that technology....use of cadavar dogs, ground penetrating radar.....probes to put in the ground.... none of them very effective........

what method ....we look @ odor composition......@ body farm....graves special....put in a piping system ....under the bodies, above the bodies......monitor which chemicals produce during .......@ the body under the body, above the body, and which compounds made it all the way from under..to escape to surface of the ground......
instrumentation


odors? in initial 10 yrs or more ....decomposing human remains in various stages.....over the years 20 yrs .....followed approx 50 individuals from start to finish....fresh when came in .....start to finish......looked @ 100's at various stages.......

odor of human decomp unique odor just to smell.....literature publications describe what

number of researchers done human bodies, pigs,

Dr. Vass has done research .... usually pigs ......deer, pigs, dogs, cats.......

odor of human from nose perspective distinguishable ....he thinks yes (object- overrule) animals have a more mustier, domesticated animals have a sweeter scent...

collected data 2002 - 2007 publish initial paper - Journal of Forensic Science - peer review.....continued research after 2004 paper....establish graves.....begin ....enviornmental perimeters - temp,rainfall,barimetic pressure - if high pressure moves in can't detect chemicals @ the surface....hi pressue pushes down into ground.....low pressure - chemicals come out of ground......some water soluable....float above water when rains sometimes.. .very complicated .......in 2nd paper had been looking @ bodies for 4 years by that time skeletonized (object- narrative = Approach!)

 

[Nali87]

Let him have it judge!

 

[pjmale]

HHJP going to school JB again.

 

[jamiect]

#CaseyAnthony Ashton struggling with a cough. Audience member left coughing loudly. Loud sniffles from George A as well.
by bobkealing via twitter at 9:43 AM

 

[mombomb]

Direct examination of Dr. Arpod Voss by JA. (continued)

There came a time, after the third model which was based on how tissue breaks down in very early decomp, when they felt they had gone as far as they could. Bio-chemically he felt he had reached the limit of his knowledge. This would have been early 2000 or 2001. Up to then he felt time since death was the most difficult challenge.

Next area - locating clandestine graves - complicated process. Up to that point the primary method of finding was geo-physical in nature - none very effective. He was looking for a more universal way. Mot successful way at that time was cadaver dogs, they then looked at odors by burying a number of individuals with a piping system so that they could monitor the chemicals being produced around the body, in the soil and at the surface which would be the odor the dogs could smell. This lead to the development of instrumentation.

Odor of decomp - over the 20 years there, they have followed 50 individuals from fresh dead to skelatinization. They also looked at 100's of bodies at individual time points. He has found the odor to be unique. There is literature that describe the chemical components liberated in decomp. He has also worked with the odor of animal decomp, including pigs. They also use road kill - deer, dogs, cats.

He has found the odor of human decomp to be distinguishable from animal decomp. Animals have a more musky scent. Domesticated animals have a sweeter scent.

Initial paper on the odor of decomp was published in 2004. This paper related to the establishment of the graves, an assimilation of the chemicals and an evaluation of the environmental parameters - temp, rain fall, pressure. A high pressure will push chemicals down into the ground.

Objection by JB - overruled.

Rainfall - some chemicals in decomp are water solluable and some aren't.

The second paper - had been looking at bodies that had been in the ground for 4 years and were skelatonized.

Objection by JB - SIDEBAR (#1)

(News Commentator saying this is breaking history - first time this testimony has been admitted in Court - air sample testimony)

 

[ahoyhoy]

Casey is very telling! If you were innocent or it was a accident, wouldnt you be beside yourself thinking about your babies body decomposing? I had to identify a hanging victim and it has never left my mind in all these years. I know the jurors have to see this side of her. moo

NO KIDDING! Same stone face. I have no kids, and listening to the stages of decomp and relating it to little Caylee broke my heart.
Has Casey ever met Caylee? I'm starting to not be able to tell.

 

[fifteen89]

Casey is very telling! If you were innocent or it was a accident, wouldnt you be beside yourself thinking about your babies body decomposing? I had to identify a hanging victim and it has never left my mind in all these years. I know the jurors have to see this side of her. moo

IF she's connecting the dots, she's only remembering how SHE was a victim because SHE had to drive that car around for days with that horrible smell. Poor poor Casey.

 

[heartfortruth]

I'm sure on cross, JB will pounce on Dr. Vass. Unfortunately, that will be a terrible mistake. If JB was smart, he would treat Dr. Vass with total respect...in the eyes of the Jury, he will become more likeable if he does.

Yes, but don't give JB any "clues"......LOL

 

[Soulmagent]

Aww he was excited to share all that with us. He likes to talk about his job, so does Dr. Bass.