2011.06.13 Sidebar (Trial Day Seventeen)

[gngr~snap]

I'm so glad the mods left the door unlocked overnight, because I've tossed and turned all night. Finally just gave up and made coffee.

I hope these jurors are managing to sleep better than alot of us WSers are.

srsly! I do too!
I've had many sleepless anxious nights.
.probably more than ICA!
It's calming to come here and find someone else awake with Caylee in their heart and on their mind.
Thx for all your posts! really! Caylee has touched you too after all this time... and it makes me smile to know.that baby has affected so many people.

 

[ecs5298]

I'm so glad the mods left the door unlocked overnight, because I've tossed and turned all night. Finally just gave up and made coffee.

I hope these jurors are managing to sleep better than alot of us WSers are.

srsly! I do too!
I've had many sleepless anxious nights.
.probably more than ICA!
It's calming to come here and find someone else awake with Caylee in their heart and on their mind.
Thx for all your posts! really! Caylee has touched you too after all this time... and it makes me smile to know.that baby has affected so many people.

I guess that makes 3 of us. Woke up at 03:00. Can't sleep. Made coffee. Now catching up on the threads since I didn't have a chance much yesterday.

I will be very happy when this trial is over and she is convicted and sentenced. I think we'll all sleep a little better when justice gets served!

 

[Whisperer]

What sort of pets was ICA burying on Suburban Dr? How old was ICA when she was doing this and did her family know what happened to these pets?

 

[katydid23]

I'm so glad the mods left the door unlocked overnight, because I've tossed and turned all night. Finally just gave up and made coffee.

I hope these jurors are managing to sleep better than alot of us WSers are.

I am up late too. I will sleep in since the trial starts later tomorrow.

I am glad to hear your Jezebel is still going strong. Our sweet Burmese, 'Burma' lived until 22 yrs of age, and she was the sweetest cat we ever had. It was hard to say goodbye, but she went in her sleep, peacefully. We were blessed by that. RIP Burma. I hope she is purring away on Caylee's lap while we all wait for the JUSTICE that is coming.

 

[katydid23]

What sort of pets was ICA burying on Suburban Dr? How old was ICA when she was doing this and did her family know what happened to these pets?

I wondered the exact same thing. lol

I know that Caylee was NOT in the exact same area as the pet cemetery, but being wrapped in garbage bags, with stickers, and dumped in the general vicinity is still creepy and eerie. imoo

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I guess that makes 3 of us. Woke up at 03:00. Can't sleep. Made coffee. Now catching up on the threads since I didn't have a chance much yesterday.

I will be very happy when this trial is over and she is convicted and sentenced. I think we'll all sleep a little better when justice gets served!

The thing that seems to be keeping me awake at night, apart from just the heartbreaking aspects of this case, is trying to think like a juror. There are some things, some evidence, presented in this trial that I just can't seem to make fit, no matter how hard I try. For instance, my gut feeling (along with some testimony) tells me ICA didn't intend for Caylee to die. But then, I can't reconcile that to her behavior after Caylee was deceased. The girl was just flat out happy. So I ask myself, if ICA chloroformed Caylee and bound her with duct tape just to get her out of her hair for a few hours (shudder), and Caylee died as a result of that, wouldn't ICA still be upset over that turn of events? Even if she didn't give a rat's you know what about this child (and I sure don't think she did), wouldn't ICA still have been upset to have the dead body of her child to deal with? And yet, I see evidence that clearly tells me she wasn't bothered at all.

Then I have to ask myself, DID she INTEND to kill this child? If so, what solid evidence do I have of that? Duct tape that covered the mouth, but may or may not have covered the nose...chloroform found in the trunk of the car that I can't state with any certainty was ever even used on Caylee...nefarious computer searches that could simply be searches to bolster any number of her many lies...ARG!

But when you put all these things together...it paints a picture. Is it the RIGHT picture, though? That's the question.

And so my thoughts go round and round and round. :banghead:

 

[Donjeta]

I've been wondering the same thing, Mountain Kat.

Even if she didn't give a darn about Caylee, I'd expect her to be upset if she accidentally killed her without meaning to. Upset for herself if nothing else. ("Oh cripes, now the snothead is dead and I have to deal with the aftermath and how am I ever gonna explain it and dang, now my car smells and I can't use it, where can I get a new one, and what if I get in trouble with the police, it's all so unfair, everything is mom and dad's fault.." etc.

 

[Whisperer]

IIRC, the phone calls ICA made to Cindy were many in the first week. To my kge, Cindy did not pick up. If she did not answer, I suspect there was a huge fight or sorts to stop Cindy from wanting to talk to her daughter.

If accurate, this would substantiate the rumor that Cindy and ICA got into it "big time" on the night of the 15th.

 

[Whisperer]

Mountain Kat...just play back Dr. G's testimony when you feel down. Her words will stick with the jury. ICA is going down.

 

[lookieloo]

I have only read she buried a pet hamster there. Maybe her friends buried some small pets too. I want to know who the state's last witness will be today. Anyone know??

 

[bayouland]

The thing that seems to be keeping me awake at night, apart from just the heartbreaking aspects of this case, is trying to think like a juror. There are some things, some evidence, presented in this trial that I just can't seem to make fit, no matter how hard I try. For instance, my gut feeling (along with some testimony) tells me ICA didn't intend for Caylee to die.

And so my thoughts go round and round and round. :banghead:

As normal, decent human beings, I'm sure many of us hope that it was an accident that "snowballed". I think the picture painted tells a different story. Look how calm and collected she was when first interviewed by LE. She had her story planned in advance. At first I thought it was an accident, now I think it was premeditated murder.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I've been wondering the same thing, Mountain Kat.

Even if she didn't give a darn about Caylee, I'd expect her to be upset if she accidentally killed her without meaning to. Upset for herself if nothing else. ("Oh cripes, now the snothead is dead and I have to deal with the aftermath and how am I ever gonna explain it and dang, now my car smells and I can't use it, where can I get a new one, and what if I get in trouble with the police, it's all so unfair, everything is mom and dad's fault.." etc.

There is something really truly disturbing about this girl, Donjeta. Something not right upstairs. She thinks like a child would think, imo. Not innocent like a child, but the same grasp of "real life" that a child has. Like no matter what the consequence of following her every impulse, she can simply make those consequences go away by 1. not acknowledging them, or 2. making up elaborate lies to avoid paying the price for them.

Childish, but a very sinister childishness.

 

[katydid23]

The thing that seems to be keeping me awake at night, apart from just the heartbreaking aspects of this case, is trying to think like a juror. There are some things, some evidence, presented in this trial that I just can't seem to make fit, no matter how hard I try. For instance, my gut feeling (along with some testimony) tells me ICA didn't intend for Caylee to die. But then, I can't reconcile that to her behavior after Caylee was deceased. The girl was just flat out happy. So I ask myself, if ICA chloroformed Caylee and bound her with duct tape just to get her out of her hair for a few hours (shudder), and Caylee died as a result of that, wouldn't ICA still be upset over that turn of events? Even if she didn't give a rat's you know what about this child (and I sure don't think she did), wouldn't ICA still have been upset to have the dead body of her child to deal with? And yet, I see evidence that clearly tells me she wasn't bothered at all.

Then I have to ask myself, DID she INTEND to kill this child? If so, what solid evidence do I have of that? Duct tape that covered the mouth, but may or may not have covered the nose...chloroform found in the trunk of the car that I can't state with any certainty was ever even used on Caylee...nefarious computer searches that could simply be searches to bolster any number of her many lies...ARG!

But when you put all these things together...it paints a picture. Is it the RIGHT picture, though? That's the question.

And so my thoughts go round and round and round. :banghead:

That is exactly where I was stuck for awhile. But then I went to the timelines, like ACandyRose for example, and I read her texts and messages and calls and computer usage for every hour on the 16th and 17th. Go do that, and you will have your answer, imo.

ETA; not wanting to be obtuse, I will say what I learned from that. It showed me that whether it was accidental or not, she never took a break from talking about date night plans, fake conversations with Amy, uploading pictures from Fusion, sending out invites to Fusion....ALL of this within hours of the tragic death of Caylee. That says it all to me.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Mountain Kat...just play back Dr. G's testimony when you feel down. Her words will stick with the jury. ICA is going down.

I already had all those thoughts in my head before Dr. G's testimony. I think many jurors did also. I don't know many thinking adults who would learn that there was duct tape around a deceased child's skull and think, "Oh. Drowning victim."

But her testimony was certainly reinforcement.

 

[Donjeta]

There is something really truly disturbing about this girl, Donjeta. Something not right upstairs. She thinks like a child would think, imo. Not innocent like a child, but the same grasp of "real life" that a child has. Like no matter what the consequence of following her every impulse, she can simply make those consequences go away by 1. not acknowledging them, or 2. making up elaborate lies to avoid paying the price for them.

Childish, but a very sinister childishness.

Yeah... I can't get past the sheer stupidity of some of the lies. If she'd made up a carjacking by strangers at a lonely spot or a creepy man following her and Caylee in the park or if Caylee just vanished from their walk when she was momentarily distracted looking for her cell phone in her purse or something it would have been more complicated to prove as false. But who tells the police that the kidnapper lives in such and such address knowing that the police will go there and find out she doesn't? It's not like she didn't have a month to come up with a better story. Or taking police officers to your office in a building you don't work at. Or leaving a child's body to rot in a trunk in the Florida heat. Everybody knows that it'll start to stink and you need to get rid of it right away. Making up non-existent people when the police are asking you for people to confirm your story, knowing that they can't help if they don't exist.

It's like the next minute doesn't exist. No thinking ahead at all.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

That is exactly where I was stuck for awhile. But then I went to the timelines, like ACandyRose for example, and I read her texts and messages and calls and computer usage for every hour on the 16th and 17th. Go do that, and you will have your answer, imo.

I can't. I'm forcing myself to go only on the evidence presented in trial.

I will say this, though...I don't think I would have to determine whether this was a premeditated murder in order to find her guilty of First Degree Murder. From what I've read of Florida law, I'm reasonably sure I would only have to determine that Caylee died as a result of a crime commited against her.

 

[Kentjbkent]

You know what would be interesting....

So much is being discussed about the manner in which KC has expressed emotion...or more specifically LACK of emotion over the death of Caylee...

I would LOVE to hear some testimony of her reactions over learning of the death of someone else who held a special place in her life...like a relative, close friend, etc...

Did she express a lack of emotion during one of those incidents???

 

[Donjeta]

Well, supposedly she cried and was upset when Caylee's father died in a car accident? Does it count if it's an imaginary person?

 

[lorann]

I think ICA was a snotty overindulged spoiled brat. I think she and her mom had a terrible fight and the threat of her mom to take custody put her in such a rage. Having everyone know her child was taken away would ruin her image (of herself). In my mind, I am not 100% sure if she used the chlor to sedate her and the tape to keep her quiet or if she meant to kill her. Either way, it is murder to me. :maddening:


ETA I have been waiting since early April for a new roof - not many days where we haven't had rain or threat of rain - then a horrible storm that affected whole neighborhoods that required my roofers. I got 10 min. notice that today is my day - so the crew is up there pounding away. I hope everybody does their usual good job of reporting in case I can't hear when court starts. TIA

 

[Tuffy]

What sort of pets was ICA burying on Suburban Dr? How old was ICA when she was doing this and did her family know what happened to these pets?

I don't think there is any evidence to suggest that Casey buried any pets, anywhere. That interview was with Kiomarie, who IMO, lies just as much as Casey. She inserted herself into the case. She sought out the investigators to tell them that she and Casey used to hang out in the woods behind the school, and that they might find Caylee there.

IMO, I don't believe her.