2011.06.17 Sidebar Thread (Trial Day Twenty-One)

[jojomonkey]

Here's a picture that JWG put together for anyone wanting to take a look at the stain.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14310

Well I stand corrected - I've never seen that pic before! I only saw the picture of the trunk liner and the stain. It does look very clear in that one.

 

[LyndyLoo]

ITA. I think it is a farce for this witness to testify about these things which are clearly outside his area of expertise. I mean, he has to be an excellent entomologist, based on his credentials, but that in no way qualifies him to judge whether a decomp stain can be removed, whether the particular type of situation we are describing (a double-bagged toddler in the early stages of decomp) would lead to a waxy permanent leak with tons of flies, etc.

It seems to me that decomp wasnt totally cleaned up..otherwise why the terrible decomp odour so many smelled...Including Gerus and Bones...Also that stuff on the paper towel was identified as Grave Wax that had a whole load of dead coffin fly's//There was NO other items in that trash that would attract those critters..thus trapped in with grave wax on that paper towel..

Vaccuming would only be helpful to clean up the various maggots and pupae left behind...As for Caylee, triple bagged (2 garbage bags and canvas bag),,no doubt those coffin flys got trapped inside those bags..and then transferred to the "Dump Site" ....So have no idea just what Dr. H. is trying to suggest?? That there was no body in that trunk?..Hummmm maybe JA should have Dr. H take a whiff of the carpet??...He is also saying well trained cadaveur dogs dont know what they smelled, Dr. Vass 20 years of dealing with decomp, GA, CA and others who KNOW the difference between trash and human decomp???? I am not so sure this is going to fly with the jury and have no doubt JA will show all these inconsistencies...Yikes Dr. H. never even saw nor smelled the Sunfire...How can he even testify in his expert opinion that NO HUMAN CORPSE was in that trunk?????..


BTW even his experiment didnt include the same elements. Pig instead of human remains, temperatures not even close to circumstances in Florida, and the "Biggy"..No wrapping or packaging of his decomposing specimen...

Apple Oranges..LOL..Was his study or experiment ever "Peer Reviewed"?? Hummmmmm Baez is so sneaky......JMOO and hope he gets an attitude adjustment during cross..:twocents:

 

[dax]

I don't believe any fluids leaked out of that bag till the very last when Casey was taking her out to dump her. I think a body part poked through the bag.

I have been thinking that the bag tore or caught on something in the trunk. Or perhaps some item in the trunk caught on the bag and caused the tear?

 

[USARDOG]

If chloroform levels were so high AND the body was bagged how likely is it that insects would survive - in a closed environment? really? I would like a scientist/chemist someone to answer that question....

Hi compared to what is the question. I'm not a bug guy, and this is just my op, but if there were a nuclear war, it is said one of the few things to survive would be cockroaches, flies etc. So, while the Ch level may have been WAY high compared to another dead body, one who died say from a gun shot, it was likely not high enough to kill every fly in the area. Remember, it would have been inhaled by Caylee and gone through her system, it's not like it was an open can of Ch in the trunk. That is the way I see it anyway.

 

[krisskross]

wow this is a tough one:

a dead pig in a trunk in Nebraska, laying on the carpet for days


or

a tripple bagged 2 year old in a trunk in florida for an undetermined period of time



and this expert is making a comparison for the jury


and the IS th's don't get the HUGE DIFFERENCE


casey Jordan FINALLY makes the point

good gawd.......

:floorlaugh: Not to mention this pig wasn't wearing a layer of clothing or wrapped in a blanket.

And IIRC Dr Huntington's deposition, he never opened the pig trunk until day 11. :waitasec:

 

[Whimsigal]

Also, in regard to Dr. H's pig/trunk experiment. THe average temps in Nebraska in Sept at 77 for the high and 54 for the low. The average temps in Orlando in July are 92 for the high and 73 for the low. MUCH MUCH different and I know JA is going to bring this up on cross. My apologies if anyone else has posted this info already.

 

[Chiquita71]

Cement, you may not care for the way she says it, but I usually love what she says. Casey Jordan and Beth Karas are the only reasons I still tune it to TTV.

Thank you Velouria :tyou:
BBM

I am only responding to Casey Jordan and Betth Karas portion of your post the part in bold. ITA. They are wonderful. They should have their own shows IMHO. Not NG, and RG and JVM.

:yes: they are great.

 

[darnudes]

We'll never know what she did. But it could have been the next day when she backed her car into the garage. Even so, when do decomp fluids start to leak? If she had her body in the car unbagged for one day I don't think she would have started decomposing to that extent to leave that kind of a stain. In the end, I don't think anyone will question that the stain was her even if you can't see a body outline.

That's what I said, I don't think she bagged Caylee until the next day. That's cool, I'm happy to be wrong and stand beside all the FBI agents that saw the body of a child in that stain.

 

[MomCat]

Yep, it would not surprise me at all to see JB doing a headstand, or riding out on a unicycle.

But didn't HHJP say he had the Court's permission to stand on his head?

"Lookit me! I'm standing on one leg!" - JB

(cue circus music)

 

[Themis]

I hate to say it, but you may be right. I just don't have a good feeling about any of it...there is too much the State left out. I wish the jury knew all of the evidence, because I'm certain they would convict her in a New York minute.

I haven't seen a case yet where all of the known evidence was presented to or admitted in evidence to go to the jury or finder of fact judge. Cases are decided on partial evidence.

 

[The Farm]

I love your positive attitude. I really needed that.

Me toooooo.

 

[Chiquita71]

I'm afraid of that too. I sit here thinking, if a person like ICA can get off of murder 1 for this, who couldn't? I mean, we have video of her lying. Video of her horrible lack of compasssion from the first jail call. Things that tie the body to her home. Duct tape fgs over her baby's mouth and nose. She had control of the death car.

What does one need to prove murder 1? A video of it happening? Is that the only thing that works? As long as you have lawyers who can insert doubt and blame other innocent people you will be fine?

:takeabow: tragco

:goodpost: :thumb: :yes: Exactly. Thank you for posting your feelings on this, ITA.

:twocents:
:twocents:

 

[JusticeSeeker1960]

Here's a picture that JWG put together for anyone wanting to take a look at the stain.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14310

Thanks for sharing that. One thing I saw when I enlarged it was what appeared to be her little hand. If you look to the left of where they show the knee, you'll see what I think looks like a hand/fingers. :sick:

 

[USARDOG]

I once bagged a dead opossum that I picked up from the road in front of my house, and left it outside on the concrete until trash day, (about 2 days later) because it smelled! It stained the concrete through the bag! I had to wash/bleach the stain like crazy to get rid of it, even though the bag never leaked. That plastics has a tight enough matrix to prevent liquid from escaping, but it doesn't seem like the molecules are close enough to prevent certain gasses from passing through.

 

[sophie01]

Simon Birch testified that when they opened the trunk in tow yard, hundreds of flies flew out!!!

Yes he did, and that was mentioned on IS.

 

[Purple Iris]

Sorry, I'm not a chemist so I can't have a professional opinion on anything. :floorlaugh:

Hold up....how about if we gave you a fancy white mouth/nose mask and some light blue disposable gloves, could you render an opinion then???
Oh, and those little paper footies!!!

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I don't think she went into the trunk in a bag. I think she tossed her in the trunk and ended up bagging her the day she got & returned the shovel. Remember her clothes ( the ones Cindy washed) were REEKing

I think she was bagged from the start in one bag. She went to move her and the bag tore and fluids leaked out flowing into the depression she made on the carpet from laying there for days. Casey then slipped another plastic bag over her and put her inside the cavas bag to haul her out into the woods. By the time she lugged the bag out there she decided it was to much to try and bury her. One drop of that fluid on her pants would be enough to make them stink.

After all that she was constantly cleaning the trunk to get rid of the smell.

 

[littlemisslegal]

the rules to get ticket for trial changed after a brawl this morning. guy in head lock and woman beating on him with water bottle. so now- you must line up no earlier than 4pm day prior and next day if you get ticket you must show id. no camping out anymore. imagine this will cut down on line a bit if some wil not want to drive for hours to get ticket and come back next day. monday tickets need to be from sat .line at 4. just nuts!!

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/na...y-line-fight-courthous20110617,0,108135.story

 

[SATA]

Yep, it would not surprise me at all to see JB doing a headstand, or riding out on a unicycle.

He´d fall on his azz. :great:

 

[JusticeSeeker1960]

Themis, if this particular juror stated during deliberations,expressing to the other jurors , that she cannot judge ,what then ?

MissJames, I keep hoping our "ace in the hole" is the juror who is a nurse & has history of human decompossition. Let's just pray that she works the room during deliberation.