2011.06.27 Sidebar Thread (Trial Day Twenty-nine)

[Hot Dogs]

Eww. Was the area visibly numbered 8905, like on the curb? Was there any way for ICA to have known that address? I'm thinking of her insisting to her family she will be home by her birthday! A clue for LA? Yikes!

I'm confused here. What is the 8905 thing about?

Caylee was found behind 4701 Suburban Drive.

 

[Hey boss!]

The cops actually asked him why he didn't persist... why he blew it off after being 99% sure he had seen the skull in August. He told them that he had some stressful things come up in his life.

Yeah, he might of gotten cold feet due to his history. Maybe thought he shouldn't push it too hard.

 

[Shelby1]

The cops actually asked him why he didn't persist... why he blew it off after being 99% sure he had seen the skull in August. He told them that he had some stressful things come up in his life.

Thank you for the information.


My response to what Kronk said:

????????????????? Whaaaaat???? What is so overly stressful that you can't take a day to make LE come and see the decomposing, tiny human remains you're so sure that you've found?

 

[Chilly Willy]

So that tells me right there that noooooooooooo way RK would have met with LP if LP was asking for him to "come clean" to get a reward....especially after he had repeated the story multiple times about RK's girlfriend which apparently had no basis, IMO.

Right. And, just to clear this up, it is not true that RK was not allowed to accept a reward. MJ checked into it before offering RK the $5,000. LP used that as his first excuse for not paying the reward. It was after that lie was shot down that LP came up with the "come clean" business.

 

[Hot Dogs]

According to online records, there was someone with the first name
"Zenaida" living at 4709, and someone with the last name
"Gonzalez" living at 4701.

Casey Anthony told law enforcement and family members that she dropped Caylee off to "Zenaida Gonzalez" "between 9 and 1."

Caylee's remains were found in the woods off Suburban Drive behind the two homes.

Another thing about this theory. If the name "Zenaida Gonzalez" was derived from her body location behind these homes, then the Zenaida Gonzalez at Sawgrass Apartments was a huge red herring coincidence.

Both can't be correct. One of these two has to be a simple coincidence. Take your pick.

 

[Harmony 2]

I haven't been able to figure out how they arrived at that abandoned house on Brackenwood. Did the psychic give them an address or what?

If I recall correctly, there was someone with the last name Gonzalez that lived there. I think AzLawyer did some research on him.

I agree with you if the defense can make Kronk's actions appear strange or nonsensical. That's to be seen.

I cringe at the thought of Kronk on direct examination.. IMO Kronk is the weakest link and can cause some big problems for the state.

I'm wondering if anyone remembers where this information was discussed in the forum. If I'm remembering correctly, it turned out that something wasn't right about it - I'm thinking it was that people with those names owned those homes way in the past, long before the A's moved to Florida.

FWIW, I recall problems with the information too. That was why I asked for a link on the trial thread...

 

[Hot Dogs]

What is so overly stressful that you can't take a day to make LE come and see the decomposing, tiny human remains you're so sure that you've found?

He told LE that the stresses were:

1. He was renewing his relationship with his estranged son.
2. His car broke down and needed expensive repairs.

 

[Leila]

I'm not buying it. If the story is true about George having Casey up against the wall choking her and demanding she tell him what she did to Caylee, there's no way that Casey would have believed her family would re-hide the body for her. I mean there are some things that a family simply will not do. Plus Casey knew that the family was under constant scrutiny by the media and the public.

Caylee's body had already been were it was dumped for weeks and no one had found it. I believe Casey thought it was safer to leave it where it was than to attempt to move it.

By the time all this was happening, George and Cindy had made the local law enforcement adversaries. They didn't want any searches for Caylee's remains, and Cindy was routinely reporting live sightings of Caylee. Cindy treated Tim Miller badly because of his search efforts. I don't think George knew what happened or where Caylee's remains were, but I think it's possible that Cindy had an idea of the general location, either through Casey or Lee. If DC had found a bag containing Caylee's remains, I have doubts that it would have been reported to law enforcement.

 

[Unsolved]

Well, when she said "look in familiar places close to home", in retrospect, it seems she was giving him a huge hint.......

I know it's probably way off, but after reading the "Close to Home....Holt?" thread a while ago, I too think that she was telling Lee close to Holt, which is right around the corner from the Ninth Grade Center in Winter Park that they attended for 9th grade (528 Huntington Avenue, Winter Park, FL). Listen at mark 6:16:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF-Ge5hCn9Y&feature=youtu.be

Plus Casey saying "Check places locally Lee, in all honesty, places that are familiar to us, to our family" and Holt is just so very close to the 9th Grade Center they attended. Maybe they had a hiding place there that they smoked in, etc.?:

Also this is also only 12 mins from Tony L's Sutton Place apartment (3843 Sutton Place Boulevard, Winter Park, FL, close to Rollins College) per google maps.

Well, conspiricy theories aside, I would have been poking around that area, it's close to her house and the only logical place to hide a body that close. I'm naturally nosey, so you can bet your boots I'd act the same way he did. The cop who responded just shot a glance out there and didn't really "look", I would have checked again once it dried out KWIM?

Me too I listen to all his calls and I think he sounded frustrated and the operators sounded uninterested. After the third call an officer came out and met with him at he area but when he went to show him were he thought he had seen the water levels had changed and the office gave him a hard time about wasting their time, so he dropped it but I think it was eating away at him so when he was back in the Area in December he went looking for it again and because it had dried up he found it.

That cop was seriously lazy, read this:

Meter reader Roy Kronk wasn't the only person ignored by Deputy Richard Cain, WKMG-Channel 6 is reporting.

In an "Only on 6" report this weekend, the CBS affiliate says a volunteer who searched for Caylee Anthony in August also received "the cold shoulder" from Cain.

Volunteer Keith Williams told WKMG that he searched the woods in August and found a bag of undamaged stuffed animals. "Williams immediately alerted the Orange County Sheriff's Office and soon found himself meeting with Deputy Richard Cain," WKMG's Mike DeForest reported.

Cain looked at the bag of stuff animals and threw it back in the woods, Williams said.

The Williams-Cain meeting happened five days after Kronk was "blown off" by the deputy, DeForest reported. Caylee's remains were found in December after another tip from Kronk.

DeForest explained that Williams could become a crucial witness for Casey Anthony. Because Williams said he searched the woods several times and didn't find Caylee's remains, her defense team might argue that the child's remains weren't in the woods in August when Casey was jailed. Anthony is charged with the first-degree murder of her child.

The Orange County Sheriff's Office fired Cain on Friday for lying about his actions in the Caylee search.

Ok, not that I'm "the mock juror here", but here are my final questions as of tonight. In NO way do I think that Casey did not kill that precious baby. But, these are my last remaining questions as of now.

1. I would like to clear up the question that I have about "Teddy". Are there two bears or is the "Teddy" that was sent in the mail the same "Teddy" that Cindy said was missing.

I have a stupid theory about that missing teddy also that I posted over on the trial thread earlier. In the Dominic C emails that were released he mentions:

I am happy to hear that Ginette received the Bear, the shirt on the Bear is one of Caylee Marie's which Casey recently dressed the Bear in.

Could the Caylee shirt Casey used on the bear be the one last seen on Caylee by GA? Hide in plain sight? Then when LE gets too hot, hide the bear?

Lee's a strange one. I was surprised when he told how baby plans went on b/t CA & ICA around him, decorating the room, shower plans, and he was completely excluded. No doubt he's got plenty of emotional baggage too, from that alone, but he was well-trained not to ask about the preg. a second time.

My stupid theory number 3 (I have millions LOL)

Remember Tara, Lee's girlfriend who had the abortion? Ex of Mark H? IF Casey who was dating Jesse G. got pregnant by Mark H, who was then dating Tara who was dating LA and Tara got pregnant and aborted LA's baby, then ICA turned up PG by MH, and Lee was so depressed (in one deposition Cindy said she probably should have got him help for depression at one time, and everyone thought it might have because of his acne - uh, maybe way bigger problem) and no one wanted to tell him that Caylee was MH's baby?
(Whew, I got tired typing that, let alone live it like they did).

Could it be when George "doesn't want to lose another one" he's referring to Lee's baby?

From LA's myspace blog:

Imagine, having a husband...seperating from him...finding a boyfriend that cares for you endlessly...leave the boyfriend to go back to the husband as you come to find out you're carrying the boyfriend's child...lie to the husband that the child is his and proceed to get a divorce and cut all ties...neglect the relationship with the boyfriend because you "didn't know what to say to" him, and further sabotage it because you will only speak to him "now or never." Neglect the relationship to the point of having an abortion without the boyfriend knowing any of this was even going on...then, travel to michigan to find the next husband to be...because, remember, anyone that will love you, must be worth it.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/11356027/Lees-MySpace-Blog

 

[GetSmart]

I'm confused here. What is the 8905 thing about?

Caylee was found behind 4701 Suburban Drive.

It is suppose to be the addy for the vacant lot on Suburban.. I went orange county property app site but the loading timed out on me

 

[Hey boss!]

Another thing about this theory. If the name "Zenaida Gonzalez" was derived from her body location behind these homes, then the Zenaida Gonzalez at Sawgrass Apartments was a huge red herring coincidence.

Both can't be correct. One of these two has to be a simple coincidence. Take your pick.

Yeah, that whole Sawgrass Zanaida thing still REALLY bothers me. No matter how hard I try to come up with an explanation, I just can't.

 

[Jstc4caylee]

Another thing about this theory. If the name "Zenaida Gonzalez" was derived from her body location behind these homes, then the Zenaida Gonzalez at Sawgrass Apartments was a huge red herring coincidence.

Both can't be correct. One of these two has to be a simple coincidence. Take your pick.

A really crazy coincidence though, isn't it. I am still trying to find something to back this up, or correct me. But I recall that ICA gave LE the names of ZFG...when they found the ZFG that had filled out the card at the Saltgrass apartment, where ICA did frequent, she said that card had her kids names on it and she believes that is how ICA got all their names.
Now, if that proves to not be true.. Then my guess is she got it from the houses HOWEVER..remember, she had been using that name since Caylee was about 6 months old.!!

 

[deelytful1]

I don't for a minute believe Kronk hid the remains and placed them in the woods... BUT LP is on Dr. Drew (with Vinnie P hosting) and it seems all 3 (Hoover, DC and RK) were all looking in the same exact place until eventually (after Hurrican Faye) Kronk finally found precious Caylee west of where they were looking. Coincidence? Possibly..
Just odd but I guess since these woods were so familiar to ICA it would be the perfect hiding spot for her,,, BUT since it ws so very close to her house and she was claiming a kidnapper.. WHY place precious Caylee so close to her own home???
:waitasec:
Will we ever know??

 

[GetSmart]

I'm confused here. What is the 8905 thing about?

Caylee was found behind 4701 Suburban Drive.

I thought 4701 was on at the end of Hopespring

 

[akashana]

No, I don't. If that were the case, they would have eventually found the remains. They didn't. The "psychic' didn't actually know where the body was. Everything she told Dominic came directly from the media, possibly even from WS. There was much discussion about the A's putting pavers in their backyard in July. It turned out that was bad information anyway, there were no pavers found near Caylee. It's not the least bit odd that DC would focus on plastic trash bags. The Equusearch people did the same thing.

Right.

Who only spends 10-15 minutes searching????

This part of the whole case is what I can't get.

IIRC, DC wasn't being paid at that time by the Anthonys. So he was out there, hot and sweaty even in November, risking snakebite and other encounter with vermin, wearing a pr of slacks and a dress shirt, poking half-heartedly at debris in the underbrush, all while on the phone with a "psychic" several states away.

Yeah, I wouldn't be searching too hard either . . .

 

[kelian36]

Serious!! You shoulda just heard Lenny who said Hoover shouldn't sell the vid to FOX... nooo... he should sell it to Jim Lichtenstein for 4x the amount. LOLLLLOOLL


Where am I? :ufo:

:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: Today was nuts wasn't it? I gotta watch the reply of Dr. D. lol

 

[Hot Dogs]

I thought 4701 was on at the end of Hopespring

You are correct. I meant to write 4701 Hopespring Drive. Sorry.

 

[Azcrabcakes]

What is the opinion about the neighbors at the end of Hope Spring by the site they found Caylee..

It is just to freaky ..
I would not even know how to think like that and with all the "Anthony" code speak ..It just weird. She is more and more like Bundy than we think ..




According to online records, there was someone with the first name
"Zenaida" living at 4709, and someone with the last name
"Gonzalez" living at 4701.

Casey Anthony told law enforcement and family members that she dropped Caylee off to "Zenaida Gonzalez" "between 9 and 1."

Caylee's remains were found in the woods off Suburban Drive behind the two homes.

OMG! I was having a hard enough time getting things straight before I read your post, GetSmart!!

ICA had PERFECT coordinates: Between 4701 and 4709 on Hopespring, and 8905 Surburban! 8/9/05 being Caylee's birthday! (I did not verify her birthday, but took it from another WSer).

Ole ICA is FAR craftier than I ever thought! AMAZING, GetSmart. I almost fell off my chair!

That link someone, maybe GetSmart posted http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=17243&d=1309232719 and this one that I Googled:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=8905+Suburban+Dr+Orlando+Fl&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x88e764065236c88f:0xd702a10b0c10e2a3,8905+Suburban+Dr,+Orlando,+FL+32829&gl=us&ei=CFsJTt2ZOYecgQf5of2BAg&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBYQ8gEwAA

shows the location. I am FREAKED out! Then, the bat phones... and the Anthony's probably hired the PIs to locate Caylee's remains from ICA's "coded" coordinates! BOMBSHELL to me, GetSmart! WAY to GO! Snowjob extraordinaire!

 

[Hot Dogs]

It is suppose to be the addy for the vacant lot on Suburban.. I went orange county property app site but the loading timed out on me

So the reason why Casey dumped Caylee into that particular swamp was because the address was the same as Caylee's birthday? Whaaa?

 

[deelytful1]

Unsolved!! TY so much for that post!! I didn't know HALF that stuff! wow!