2012.05.17 Doc Dump Thread

[Dr.Fessel]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...rosecutor-angela-corey-new-evidence-documents

Sanford Officer Michael Wagner pulled out his personal iPhone, he wrote in his report, and shot a photo of Zimmerman's bloody nose. It appeared to him, Wagner wrote in his report, that Zimmerman's nose was broken.

"I also saw that the back of Zimmerman's head was also bloodied," Wagner wrote.

Wagner downloaded the photo to his computer but never forwarded it to anyone else, he wrote, not until March 18, when he got word that the agency could find no photos of Zimmerman taken at the scene.

That is funny because on page 65 here it says it was 3 days later on the 21st at 4:30 in the morning that the pictures were sent to Serino and he told Wagner to write it up.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor

 

[Harmony 2]

Thread for discussion about the crime scene photos >>>> [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7932981#post7932981"]The Crime Scene - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I'm thinking they are the same shirt...but just called a sweatshirt by some because it had long sleeves. Could that be it?

It probably just caught my eye because recently it dawned on me why tshirts are are called tshirts or i think it is because they are shaped like a t when laid out. Wonder why they did not chose undershirt?

 

[Reader]

BBM.

I disagree. The people who want to see GZ drawn and quartered will never be able to accept that the man was attacked and beaten, even when confronted with the photographic evidence.

Everyone was asking to see the pictures. Now we have pictures and a medical report and everyone's saying they don't matter, or that GZ was beaten badly enough.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

For me, it's that GZ unnecessarily, except in his own mind for his own reasons, profiled Trayvon and followed him and started the confrontation. Even though he did have some injuries they are not severe enough to me to cause a grown man to be in fear of his life or great bodily harm. He had the greater weight and could have even rolled over and gotten TM off. He had been a bouncer and must have had some experience in fighting as old as he was. He had physical encounters before with an officer, his fiancee and at least one other women as reported previously. Instead for some unknown reason he decided to pull his gun and shoot an unarmed teenager. He well knew by the time that happened that TM was a teenager and was unarmed. Since he knew that why didn't he just fight back physically or roll over to push Trayvon off. It still, even with the injuries, does not justify his pulling out his gun and killing Trayvon, to me. IMO

 

[New1]

People who are wondering if GZ caused his own injuries after the fact is about as ridiculous as wondering if TM grabbed GZ's gun and shot himself in the chest. JMO

 

[Steely Dan]

That is funny because on page 65 here it says it was 3 days later on the 21st at 4:30 in the morning that the pictures were sent to Serino and he told Wagner to write it up.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor

This is all I see on page 65;

 

[gxm]

What I mean is that Angela Corey had evidence of these injuries (I assume, anyway). She still chose to bring charges. That tells me the totality of the situation outweighs Zimmerman's relatively minor injuries. IMO

Given this newly revealed evidence, I find the 2nd degree charge even more outrageous today than I previously did. The evidence shows that GZ was beaten, and that TM was not. And that GZ was identified as the person screaming for help. IMO, the fact that GZ has been tried and convicted in the media, seems enough for the SA. I don't think the evidence has anything to do with the charges she brought. What a mess!

JMO, OMO, and MOO.

 

[gxm]

For me, it's that GZ unnecessarily, except in his own mind for his own reasons, profiled Trayvon and followed him and started the confrontation. Even though he did have some injuries they are not severe enough to me to cause a grown man to be in fear of his life or great bodily harm. He had the greater weight and could have even rolled over and gotten TM off. He had been a bouncer and must have had some experience in fighting as old as he was. He had physical encounters before with an officer, his fiancee and at least one other women as reported previously. Instead for some unknown reason he decided to pull his gun and shoot an unarmed teenager. He well knew by the time that happened that TM was a teenager and was unarmed. Since he knew that why didn't he just fight back physically or roll over to push Trayvon off. It still, even with the injuries, does not justify his pulling out his gun and killing Trayvon, to me. IMO

I don't think GZ was justified in shooting TM. But I'm not going by what I think, I'm going by the law. And it was clear that GZ was attacked and beaten, and that he was not the aggressor. IANAL, but I think that's a pretty good case for self defense.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

BBM.

I disagree. The people who want to see GZ drawn and quartered will never be able to accept that the man was attacked and beaten, even when confronted with the photographic evidence.

Everyone was asking to see the pictures. Now we have pictures and a medical report and everyone's saying they don't matter, or that GZ was beaten badly enough.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

IMO the problem is that even the pictures that have been released do not prove who attacked whom.

Therefore, the pictures and everything else remain subject to debate.

Those on one side interpret them as proof of GZ's account; those on the other side say they don't prove anything.

And the question of who attacked whom is the real heart of the matter.

JMO as always.

 

[Reader]

MSMBC now has a link to the documents and it is easier to read and can also be copied:

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/sections/news/Zimmerman_Discovery.pdf

 

[Reader]

I don't think GZ was justified in shooting TM. But I'm not going by what I think, I'm going by the law. And it was clear that GZ was attacked and beaten, and that he was not the aggressor. IANAL, but I think that's a pretty good case for self defense.

Yes, but his self defense did not have to be lethal...even the SYG law says it is to be a reasonable response. There are several links in the SYG thread on this.

And I'm adding that according to Serino and the ME's report GZ began the confrontation.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

This is all I see on page 65;

I am sorry, go up one page 64

 

[New1]

Given this newly revealed evidence, I find the 2nd degree charge even more outrageous today than I previously did. The evidence shows that GZ was beaten, and that TM was not. And that GZ was identified as the person screaming for help. IMO, the fact that GZ has been tried and convicted in the media, seems enough for the SA. I don't think the evidence has anything to do with the charges she brought. What a mess!

JMO, OMO, and MOO.

I totally agree!

 

[gxm]

IMO the problem is that even the pictures that have been released do not prove who attacked whom.

Therefore, the pictures and everything else remain subject to debate.

Those on one side interpret them as proof of GZ's account; those on the other side say they don't prove anything.

And the question of who attacked whom is the real heart of the matter.

JMO as always.

TM's body did not show signs of a beating, as per the autopsy. GZ's injuries show that he was attacked and beaten, and witnesses back this up. IMO, it is clear that TM attacked GZ and that GZ did not land one blow on TM until he shot him.

 

[gxm]

Yes, but his self defense did not have to be lethal...even the SYG law says it is to be a reasonable response. There are several links in the SYG thread on this.

I agree that the response did not have to be lethal. But I also think that GZ has a very good self defense case. GZ felt in fear of his life. This has been his and his family's story since day one. IANAL, but it is my understanding that this (level of fear) is very important in determining a "reasonable response."

It's way past my bedtime. Goodnight all.

 

[Reader]

That is funny because on page 65 here it says it was 3 days later on the 21st at 4:30 in the morning that the pictures were sent to Serino and he told Wagner to write it up.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/93951121/State-v-Zimmerman-Evidence-released-by-prosecutor

It says that Serino got an email on 3/21/12 from the officer who took the 2 photos, one of GZ and one of TM, and he asked him to send them to him, and he received them on 3/22. That's almost a month later.

 

[New1]

For GZ to have been on top of TM when he was shot, TM would have had to flip over after the gunshot (with GZ's body weight on top of him) and land face down as has been reported was the position of TM's body. There is no way this could have happened. TM was on TOP beating the daylights out of GZ unless GZ jumped off of him and rolled him over onto his stomach after the shot was fired. IMO

 

[katydid23]

What I mean is that Angela Corey had evidence of these injuries (I assume, anyway). She still chose to bring charges. That tells me the totality of the situation outweighs Zimmerman's relatively minor injuries. IMO

I don't know if you can rely upon this prosecutors judgment to come to that conclusion, that she must have plenty of other evidence. From what I have read about her, she is known for being a very aggressive 'charger' and has a reputation for going above what some others might have done. The governor chose her specifically for this case, and there are some that say he did so because she would not be afraid to go for it, in spite of the paltry evidence. JMO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

For GZ to have been on top of TM when he was shot, TM would have had to flip over after the gunshot (with GZ's body weight on top of him) and land face down as has been reported was the position of TM's body. There is no way this could have happened. TM was on TOP beating the daylights out of GZ unless GZ jumped off of him and rolled him over onto his stomach after the shot was fired. IMO

So do you think after getting his heart blown out, with zero blood pressure Martin said you got me, stood up and turned around and fell flat on his face?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

It says that Serino got an email on 3/21/12 from the officer who took the 2 photos, one of GZ and one of TM, and he asked him to send them to him, and he received them on 3/22. That's almost a month later.

Yeah, I think he just liked taking pictures of peoples faces at crime scenes.