2012.05.17 Doc Dump Thread

[cityslick]

I think when the bits that MOM blacked out come to light... it's going to be more than obivious why there is 2nd degree murder charges. He blacked out wayyyyyyy more than witness info and there is only one reason for that...it looks bad for GZ. IMOOOOOO.

I don't think MOM blacked out anything, all those documents came from the prosecutors office.

 

[tehcloser]

I don't think MOM blacked out anything, all those documents came from the prosecutors office.

After they were filtered with MOM's input........that's why we had to wait on them.

 

[stmarysmead]

Many but not all of the witnesses heard LOUD arguing voices outside but no one heard what the actual words were. Guess it is possible but I think it is odd no one heard what all was said. I agree GZ should have stayed in his car and I feel Trayvon was scared of this strange guy who was following him and reacted out of that fear which in today's world all kids have been taught 'stranger danger' awareness. GZ did not identify himself. That is major to me.

I think Trayvon was frightened and tried to save himself from this stranger. GZ should have said who he was and why he was questioning why Trayvon was walking through the neighborhood - even during the physical altercation. But he shot him instead. With a hollow point bullet. At least, at this point, I have never heard that GZ identified himself to Trayvon. He should have stayed in his car and since he didn't, he should have identified himself. jmo

There was no law that GZ HAD to stay in his car. He was watching a strange kid in the neighborhood till the police arrived. If TM was darting between buildings you CANNOT keep track of him in a car. This point is so over emphasized IMO. Again, GZ had the security of his neighborhood in mind.

Was TM scared? Then why not run home? That is a natural first reaction. Why not call his brother!/friend waiting in the condo? Why confront someone you fear in a street?

We can choose to guess what TM felt...but we cannot know. GZ's wounds tell me TM felt angry and annoyed. His words to GZ sound confrontational not fearful. But we do not know.

Maybe TM should have identified himself too. Or run home from the "stranger danger."

IMO if we cannot know state of mind...it is all supposition fed by a lying media. Therefore there is NO CASE. Just a rush to judgement.

And the whipping up of hatred.

 

[cityslick]

After they were filtered with MOM's input........that's why we had to wait on them.

Are you sure about that? Do you have a specific document in mind that you think is hiding a key piece of evidence? Most of the stuff looks like names and addresses.

 

[Sun48shine]

If the majority of crimes in my condo area where committed by individuals of my age and general description, I would be upset with THOSE CRIMINALS...bevause it is the statistics that are causing me to be watched.

There are hard working people of all races in that complex. THEY have a right to live in peace and keep the things they worked for. If that means that those who fit the description of the majority of criminals get "looked at"....that is the fault of the criminals.

This idea that we want less crime but we cannot hurt anyone's feeliings in trying to be safe...takes sensitivity too far. The right of all those people of all races to live there in safety trumps the "feelings" of a teenager being watched for 15 minutes and not liking it. This is not about race or ethnicity..but statistics.

What's the alternative? look away and watch a 90 year old Asian woman instead of a teenager who fits the description of those harrassing neighbors of all races? Or just don't watch at all...and let the Criminals run rampant?

We had an incident that happened almost 2 years ago in Baltimore, Maryland where two neighborhood watchmen followed a 15 year old boy who left school for a doctor's appointment. One of the neighborhood watchmen knocked the teen down, hit him in the head with a walkie talkie, and broke the boy's wrist.

"Eliyahu Werdesheim, one of two brothers accused of assaulting a teenager in Northwest Baltimore, was convicted Thursday of false imprisonment and second-degree assault, in a case that has sparked neighborhood tensions and raised questions about a community patrol group. The second brother, Avi Werdesheim, was cleared of all charges."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/breaking/bs-md-werdesheim-verdict-20120503,0,2736517.story

 

[TiaMarie]

After having called LE, I don't understand why GZ involved himself further.

This is the kicker and I agree. If not for GZ's actions of running after and confronting TM, none of this would have ever happened. Believe me when I say that this will be an integral part of the Prosecution's case. The confrontation was avoidable had GZ just listened to the dispatcher's instruction.
There is no way GZ can utilize SYG or self defense in this instance. Actually, they have every right to utilize them, but they will not be successful.

 

[marlame]

The facts may be...that tragically, TM is dead within an hour because he decided to use his fists to deal with a problem rather than his intelligence. The "cowboy" had no ESP to discern what TM's intentions were....

...Imagine if TM had been taught to walk up to an adult and say "hi...I'm visiting with *advertiser censored* in Condo C. I thought you might wonder who I am...and I want to know that I'll be here for over a week." Kids used to be taught respect,humility, and how to approach a situation.....instead of rudeness, sense of entitlement, and finally, physical confrontation.

So we all lose.

~Snipped by me

The facts may be...that tragically, TM is dead within an hour because GZ decided to use his GUN to deal with a problem rather than his intelligence. Trayvon had no ESP to discern what GZ's intentions were...

I don't know many people who teach their kids to walk up to STRANGERS and say "HI, here is where i'm staying..." As parent's we teach our kids starting as early as Pre-school about "stranger-danger"! We drill it into their heads DO NOT talk to strangers! We tell them run-scream-fight back - do what you have to do to get away or be heard!

What is SAD is children having to grow up in a society fearing being abducted and/or abused. But that is reality...

Why is it Trayvon at 17 years-old should be held to a higher standard than an adult- GZ? IMAGINE... if GZ had been taught how to appropriately approach a situation...instead of rudeness, sense of entitlement?
Oh wait...he was taught in the Neighborhood Watch training class.

~JMHO

 

[suzihawk]

IIRC, by the 7-11 video, the can of "tea" was put in a bag. What happened to the 7-11 bag?

[[/quote]


Could it be something as simple as he threw the bag into a trash can outside the 7-11 or some other can along the way? Maybe it was more convenient to carry his purchases in the pockets of his hoodie.

 

[cityslick]

This is the kicker and I agree. If not for GZ's actions of running after and confronting TM, none of this would have ever happened. Believe me when I say that this will be an integral part of the Prosecution's case. The confrontation was avoidable had GZ just listened to the dispatcher's instruction.
There is no way GZ can utilize SYG or self defense in this instance. Actually, they have every right to utilize them, but they will not be successful.

BBM

Where is the proof of this?

 

[cityslick]

Could it be something as simple as he threw the bag into a trash can outside the 7-11 or some other can along the way? Maybe it was more convenient to carry his purchases in the pockets of his hoodie.

Was it a plastic bag? One of the evidence photos was one of a plastic bag like you get in a store.

 

[tehcloser]

Are you sure about that? Do you have a specific document in mind that you think is hiding a key piece of evidence? Most of the stuff looks like names and addresses.

Yes I'm sure, he has been saying all week he had to go through them first. And when whole sections of LE reports are blacked out, it's more than names and addresses. There were several spots that big chunks were blacked out.

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/zimmerman-serino-report.pdf

pg.39
pg.40
pg.38
etc................

 

[2goldfish]

I do not believe he was destined for a life of crime. NOT AT ALL>

My only point was in response to someone else, and I replied that smoking pot is a crime in Florida.

I'm not directing this at you precisely, only that yours was the first post I saw regarding the MJ = crime story after a little google to back up what I am about to say...

I'm not trying to ruin any gardener's lives here so I'll just say to click here if you dont have poppies in your garden or want to think a little about arbitrary drug laws specifically in the united states.


if my garden was transported along with my dear little self to any US state, I would be committing felonies left right and center simply because of my knowledge of horticulture and my desire to have huge, glorious black flowers in some of my planters.

 

[tehcloser]

Could it be something as simple as he threw the bag into a trash can outside the 7-11 or some other can along the way? Maybe it was more convenient to carry his purchases in the pockets of his hoodie.

Cheese and rice......I hope he threw it in a proper waste bin, less he was littering too. :floorlaugh:

 

[Elley Mae]

Was it a plastic bag? One of the evidence photos was one of a plastic bag like you get in a store.

http://www.wftv.com/gallery/news/lo...how-bloodied-zimmerman-gun-more/ggFb/#1538946

7th photo from left

 

[cityslick]

Yes I'm sure, he has been saying all week he had to go through them first. And when whole sections of LE reports are blacked out, it's more than names and addresses. There were several spots that big chunks were blacked out.

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/zimmerman-serino-report.pdf

pg.39
pg.40
pg.38
etc................

I don't think only MOM was doing the redacting. From this article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47476961/ns/us_news-christian_science_monitor/#.T7aGrsWujTo

Both prosecutors and defense attorneys pleaded with Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester to allow redaction of witness names in the discovery file, because some of them have feared for their safety.

The redactions are unusual under Florida’s progressive “sunshine” law that constitutionally guarantees the public’s right to inspect prosecutorial evidence against citizens.

 

[stmarysmead]

~Snipped by me

The facts may be...that tragically, TM is dead within an hour because GZ decided to use his GUN to deal with a problem rather than his intelligence. Trayvon had no ESP to discern what GZ's intentions were...

I don't know many people who teach their kids to walk up to STRANGERS and say "HI, here is where i'm staying..." As parent's we teach our kids starting as early as Pre-school about "stranger-danger"! We drill it into their heads DO NOT talk to strangers! We tell them run-scream-fight back - do what you have to do to get away or be heard!

What is SAD is children having to grow up in a society fearing being abducted and/or abused. But that is reality...


A man being savagely beaten does not have the option to intellectualize...it is self preservation. TM had the option to stop. A man being beaten whose cries for help go unanswered will do whatever he must to save his life.
w

Why is it Trayvon at 17 years-old should be held to a higher standard than an adult- GZ? IMAGINE... if GZ had been taught how to appropriately approach a situation...instead of rudeness, sense of entitlement?
Oh wait...he was taught in the Neighborhood Watch training class.

~JMHO

Aman being savagely beaten will act in self preservation. At 17 this was no child. this was a young adult. Until the beating, no one abused him. He was in no fear of a man he was beating into the cement.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Just curious, as I do not live in a community like that one, but are the sidewalks not considered public property? And the streets, as well?

GZ's awareness of TM began when he was near the clubhouse. While that is not property that I would presume is open to the public at large, it is surely property of the neighborhood association, to which GZ belongs.

And must one be granted 'authority' by an outside agency to follow another person? Or to walk along a sidewalk behind another person? Or to watch another person who is in public?

If GZ was on 'private property' that he did not own... so was TM.

I guess I do not understand the point you are trying to make.

BBM

GZ is not a property owner, he just rents.

 

[TiaMarie]

BBM

Where is the proof of this?

In the charging Affidavit and documents released from yesterday.

 

[cityslick]

BBM

GZ is not a property owner, he just rents.

That doesn't mean he didn't have a right to walk outside.

 

[cityslick]

In the charging Affidavit and documents released from yesterday.

The documents nor the charging affidavit prove that GZ confronted TM or that GZ initiated the physical confrontation.

Further, Gilbreath on the stand during the bond hearing testified they had no evidence on how it started or who started the fight.