2012.05.17 Doc Dump Thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
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Just a respectful suggestion...

maybe someone could make a politcal thread where these types of things could be discussed so as to not derail the Doc Dump Thread.

:)

I think there is one. The Sound Off Thread. But you are right. One person starts and "Away we go." lol
 
I think when the bits that MOM blacked out come to light... it's going to be more than obivious why there is 2nd degree murder charges. He blacked out wayyyyyyy more than witness info and there is only one reason for that...it looks bad for GZ. IMOOOOOO.
 
The common areas are either owned by HOA or the developer who has to carry insurance. The HOA flyer that is in evidence makes it very clear that GZ understood what he was supposed to do in the event he saw someone suspicious. He was to call it in only.

But they are *common* areas. I would assume that the developer created them specifically so the *public* can use them to move about, which is what they were both doing - appropriate use of common space.

I have not seen the HOA publication you are speaking of, so I cannot comment on whether it indicated that someone watching had to cease all 'watch' activity once a call to LE was placed.

GZ CAN watch whoever he likes but getting out of the car was against the agreement he had with LE and the HOA.

Again, I have not seen a document explaining any agreement between Zimmerman and LE, but I would be surprised if his car was mentioned. My understanding - which admittedly comes solely from what I have read in the MSM - is that GZ typically performed his 'watch duties' while on foot and *not* in a vehicle. That he normally did his 'watching' while walking his dog.

Does the 'agreement' (that I have not seen) indicate that any watcher must remain where they were in relation to a vehicle (in or out of it) from the time they call LE until LE arrives?

What if GZ had been pulling into his driveway when he spotted TM? Would he have been, per this agreement, from exiting his vehicle until LE arrived?

He took the law into his own hands, never told LE he had a gun (which would have made a world of difference in what the dispatcher told him about staying with his car), he pursued TM when he knew he shouldn't, agreed not to by saying okay but went ahead and did it anyway.

I need to see sources for:
1) something that outlines to neighborhood watch volunteers that while off duty, if they spot something suspicious and report it, that they have first-order-of-business duty to report concealed firearms to non-emergency dispatchers.
2) where the dispatcher discussed TM's vehicle and whether he was in or out of it,
and
3) proof of whether he did or did not continue to attempt to maintain visual awareness of TM's whereabouts
 
You said it Sister No had the guts to help him when he needed it.

IMO She should have been run down charging that abused child who hurt his sibling who might be alive today if his own dirt bag of a mother took him to the hospital instead of letting him sit and die.The mother should spend her life in jail not a child that was insanity IIRC he is 10 yrs old and abused all his life.He hurt his sibling because violence was what he was taught from dear old mom.Seeking justice is one thing but she IMO is insane and I have no idea why the people in FL would want even vote for her after that.Oh wait she was voted in after appeasing the mob,IMO that is why she overcharged a man who should never have been in charge to begin with.Well those who love her won't when and if she does it to a loved one of theirs.Wonder how the voters will react if the right thing is done and the Judge follows the law and dismisses charges and OMG the money FL will owe GZ will be a very mighty sum IMO. I only hope he can legally sue Mr.Crump for his lies to the media.

I don't see how this could possibly go to trial. I believe Mark O'Mara will file for dismissal and it will be dismissed.

BEM: And he will get back only money, his life is ruined. Our justice system is scary.
 
I'm sure the makers of the iced tea are glad for the mistake, they've made a ton of money. I didn't see the receipt in the documents, did you? I could have sworn someone said there was a receipt at some point. I'm curious as to whether the 7-11 lighter was on it.

Raises hand... that was me.

I recall reading the 7-11 turned over a surviellance tape and electronic records of the receipts for the day. I don't recall a lighter being on the list of Trayvon's purchases. I'm at work so I can't search for a link at the moment, therefore JMO, IMO and :moo:
 
They are called common areas and the property is owned by the developer or the HOA. It is not public property. It is property within the gated community and is maintained as private property. GZ had a right to walk within the common areas as did TM. TM was walking home, GZ was not. GZ was following TM when the newletter in evidence clearly states that neighbors are to report behavior to LE but not to get involved. He clearly knew better but did it anyway. Essentially he was breaking HOA rules by following TM when he had no authority to do so.

I can also see, because of insurance reasons, there being rules about carrying guns in the common areas of these communities by the HOA. You can carry from your home to your car and off the property but no more strapping your gun on when you are walking around the common areas. It's private property they can do this claiming for the protection of all residents you can't bringing them within the common areas. jmo

TM was not on a deed or a lease neither was his dad they both were a guest.As a guest he should have not assaulted anyone who was on a lease as a resident IMO he had a duty to answer the question of what is he doing there and as a lease holder IMO GZ had a right to an answer.If he had not attacked GZ and gotten himself shot,the dad's girlfriend could have gotten in trouble since he was a guest of hers if his actions where reported to the HOA.
 
Raises hand... that was me.

I recall reading the 7-11 turned over a surviellance tape and electronic records of the receipts for the day. I don't recall a lighter being on the list of Trayvon's purchases. I'm at work so I can't search for a link at the moment, therefore JMO, IMO and :moo:

I watched the tape last night I did not see a receipt given,I have never been handed a receipt at any 711 if I did not ask for one.
 
TM was not on a deed or a lease neither was his dad they both were a guest.As a guest he should have not assaulted anyone who was on a lease as a resident IMO he had a duty to answer the question of what is he doing there and as a lease holder IMO GZ had a right to an answer.If he had not attacked GZ and gotten himself shot,the dad's girlfriend could have gotten in trouble since he was a guest of hers if his actions where reported to the HOA.

??? What? The gf would have gotten in trouble for what? Just because GZ was a "lease holder" that does not give him "rights" to an answer, especially since he did not id himself. As a guest TM had the right to be there.
 
GREAT question. I am convinced TM ran home and took something into the house. Of course he could have thrown the bag away, but why get one in the first place? He put his tea in the front of his sweatshirt and the skittles in his pocket. Maybe it's as simple as he needed his hands free to text.

Sadly, we will never know if he took something into the house....unless Tracy ticks BG off by not sharing the( potential), wealth at some point (civil suit). JMO

BBM~ What do you think Trayvon took into the house? Wasn't Trayvon's future step-brother was at home...I would think he would have said something to the effect that Trayvon made it home and left again. Also, Trayvon's girlfriend never mentioned Trayvon making it home and then leaving again.
 
Somebody obviously put that can there, which seems strange that someone would move a piece of evidence.

Could they have put it on the tarp because it was dented somewhere and to show liquid was coming out?It kinda looks like some spots but not like rain they look sticky to me.
 
BBM~ What do you think Trayvon took into the house? Wasn't Trayvon's future step-brother was at home...I would think he would have said something to the effect that Trayvon made it home and left again. Also, Trayvon's girlfriend never mentioned Trayvon making it home and then leaving again.

Did I miss this? TM went home and left again??????? I really need to catch up somewhere but lordy only knows where,lol.TIA
 
BBM~ What do you think Trayvon took into the house? Wasn't Trayvon's future step-brother was at home...I would think he would have said something to the effect that Trayvon made it home and left again. Also, Trayvon's girlfriend never mentioned Trayvon making it home and then leaving again.

Maybe his weed? He might have had it in the bag.Supposedly he was but who knows.Also brandy did say he was on the porch and then he got shot maybe it was the truth and not just her being in shock,maybe he made it to the porch opened the door and got rid of his weed.So her words now make sense I believe it was her and the dads first tv clip.Do you really think anyone in that one condo would say TM dumped his weed then went back out nope I do not think anyone would say it but yep brandy did I guess she slipped due to being in shock.Would a gf rat out her now dead bf never in a million years IMO.
 
I don't see how this could possibly go to trial. I believe Mark O'Mara will file for dismissal and it will be dismissed.

BEM: And he will get back only money, his life is ruined. Our justice system is scary.

Very scary IMO.I wonder when this is dismissed if the state of Florida can sue Mr.Crump and others to get back every cent this has cost them so far and will cost once GZ sues?IMO MR Crump should be able to be sued by GZ and his family and the state and if they can not sue him and other attn then that law needs to change so people like them will think twice before smearing someone and ruining their life with lies.
 
TM was not on a deed or a lease neither was his dad they both were a guest.As a guest he should have not assaulted anyone who was on a lease as a resident IMO he had a duty to answer the question of what is he doing there and as a lease holder IMO GZ had a right to an answer.If he had not attacked GZ and gotten himself shot,the dad's girlfriend could have gotten in trouble since he was a guest of hers if his actions where reported to the HOA.

BBM~ In theory, I don't disagree with the above bolded by me...

But GZ did not IDENTIFY himself. So, how was Trayvon know that GZ was a resident/lease holder?

The appropriate thing for GZ to do FIRST was to identify himself. By not doing so, can reasonably be perceived as confrontational. At any point while Trayvon was in proximity, GZ could have spoken to Trayvon or yelled out to him, "Excuse me...My name is GZ and I am the neighborhood watch captain. I live in this complex and You don't look familiar. Do you live here?"
Seriously, GZ could have yelled this out to Trayvon from the safety of his truck.

But GZ didn't? WHY? I just can't understand why GZ didn't identify himself?
 
??? What? The gf would have gotten in trouble for what? Just because GZ was a "lease holder" that does not give him "rights" to an answer, especially since he did not id himself. As a guest TM had the right to be there.


I don't think the girlfriend would have gotten into trouble either. Anyway, how was it to be determined by the two principles at the time of the incident who was a lessee and who was a guest? IMO GZ had no rights at all
vis 'a vis TM other than to call LE and report him as a "Suspicious" character. IMO I read somewhere that GZ didn't even have a lease to the townhouse where he was living. If that is true, does it make him the intruder since TM was an invited guest? This is really getting out of hand.
 
BBM~ In theory, I don't disagree with the above bolded by me...

But GZ did not IDENTIFY himself. So, how was Trayvon know that GZ was a resident/lease holder?

The appropriate thing for GZ to do FIRST was to identify himself. By not doing so, can reasonably be perceived as confrontational. At any point while Trayvon was in proximity, GZ could have spoken to Trayvon or yelled out to him, "Excuse me...My name is GZ and I am the neighborhood watch captain. I live in this complex and You don't look familiar. Do you live here?"
Seriously, GZ could have yelled this out to Trayvon from the safety of his truck.

But GZ didn't? WHY? I just can't understand why GZ didn't identify himself?

After having called LE, I don't understand why GZ involved himself further.
 
The facts may be...that tragically, TM is dead within an hour because he decided to use his fists to deal with a problem rather than his intelligence. The "cowboy" had no ESP to discern what TM's intentions were.

It's also a tragedy that residents of all races live in such fear that they need Watch Captains for extra protection, but that is a sorry fact. All of our children have to understand that it is those who harrass these neighborhoods that bring about a need for watchfulness or profiling. If old blonde women are causing the majority of crime in my neighborhood, then it is THEIR actions that cause me to be watched more closely. It is statistics that caused GZ to watch TM. Statistics are not racism, hatred or bias...they are just FACT not emotion. Working with fact is the only common sense way to protect your neighborhood.

IMO it is also tragic that so many good kids now wish to dress and style themselves and TALK as if they were "gangstas." Of course, they have the right...but do parents talk about the possible consequences? Or do we now feel so entitled that it is demanded that others discern the real thugs from the "pretenders?"

Imagine if TM had been taught to walk up to an adult and say "hi...I'm visiting with *advertiser censored* in Condo C. I thought you might wonder who I am...and I want to know that I'll be here for over a week." Kids used to be taught respect,humility, and how to approach a situation.....instead of rudeness, sense of entitlement, and finally, physical confrontation.

The media once again...was not content with truth or facts. TM was made five years younger and angelic. Anything negative about himwas met with emotional hysteria...as if TM's perfection was NOT to be questioned. Meantime, they scoured the gutter for anybody to say anything bad about GZ...could any of us stand against an army of paid character assassins reporting any unsubstaniated dirt? Everything was EMOTION. They did not even get GZ's race correctly reported...because the story was juicer if GZ was "white." Members of Congress referred to TM being "shot like a dog in the street."...as if there was no confrontation. TM's parents became media stars...and supposedly both quit their jobs. This became a one sided emotional Lynch Mob...demanding outcomes on falsely reported media "facts." Now the fairy tale is falling apart as FACTS come out. The media will slink away. They will report the stuff they don't like in a paragraph buried somewhere in the back where most will never see it. They have destroyed a man without a trial...to the point where our President (a lawyer) and our AG COMMENT on a case not yet gone to trial. Who is not going to convict GZ...he killed "the President's "son!!!!"

You may like this...but it is NOT justice. The whole matter is now disintegrating...fracturing into piles of little separate EXPOSED LIES. Just as Nancy grace took the night off when the Duke lacrosse Hoax was exposed...the media will slink away from the hysteria and lies they promoted. Think it's okay? Well, it could happen to you and yours.

Real subjects for scrutiny..like SYG laws will fade to the back again...just as the false duke Hoax set back REAL rape victims. In time, less and less people will give any credence to the important tangential issues because they feel duped by the fairy tale the media encapsulated those issues in.

So we all lose.


I agree with you about the media. Each one reports on the same case but in different ways. ABC News changes up like night and day. Who knows what to believe from them. Are they doing this just to see which one of them get the best ratings?
 
Look I agree that the guy should of stayed in the car but at the same token I don't think the law allows TM to physically attack the guy because he didn't like that he was checking him out.

If that's how it went down.


Look I agree that the guy should of stayed in the car but at the same token I don't think the law allows TM to physically attack the guy because he didn't like that he was checking him out.

If that's how it went down.

Many but not all of the witnesses heard LOUD arguing voices outside but no one heard what the actual words were. Guess it is possible but I think it is odd no one heard what all was said. I agree GZ should have stayed in his car and I feel Trayvon was scared of this strange guy who was following him and reacted out of that fear which in today's world all kids have been taught 'stranger danger' awareness. GZ did not identify himself. That is major to me.

I think Trayvon was frightened and tried to save himself from this stranger. GZ should have said who he was and why he was questioning why Trayvon was walking through the neighborhood - even during the physical altercation. But he shot him instead. With a hollow point bullet. At least, at this point, I have never heard that GZ identified himself to Trayvon. He should have stayed in his car and since he didn't, he should have identified himself. jmo
 
There is no evidence whatsoever that TM started the fight with the person who was harrassing him and following him on a dark, rainy night. No witness claims to have seen the start of the fight, nor is there a witness who claims to have seen the end of it, which cost TM his life. We have only Zimmerman's word for it, which IMO, can't be relied on because it is self-serving.

The video which you embedded illustrates perfectly what can happen to a bully when he tries to intimidate a man who appears to be standing on his porch minding his own business. He could just have easily been walking down a sidewalk in the dark when confronted by this bully. And if it were in FL the bully could claim he feared for his life, pull out a gun and shoot.

The information about rustling in the bushes might be the missing piece. It's possible TM hid in the bushes and it could be determined to be "lying in wait."

The bushes information might not help the TM case at all.
 
The information about rustling in the bushes might be the missing piece. It's possible TM hid in the bushes and it could be determined to be "lying in wait."

The bushes information might not help the TM case at all.

Hmmm, hadn't thought about that.

Interesting.
 
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