2012.05.17 Doc Dump Thread

[Maxim]

When did he put the skittles and drink in his pocket?

(speculation) Just after he hit GZ with it. Put the skittles and drink in his pocket, dropped the bag, and proceeded to jump on GZ and pummel him--because he needed both hands.

 

[tehcloser]

How thick are those cans? If it was used as a weapon wouldn't it have busted or dented or something? (wondering who I know that would let me whack them over the head with an Arizona can...)

 

[Yoda]

Don't you think evidence in a murder case should be treated in a technical way?

Don't you find it odd that evidence is set on a body and then mislabeled and photographed?

Why was it put on the body?

Was this some kind of joke?

Didn't one of the officer statement say that during the resuscitation the tea was moved and he moved it to the tarp when they covered the body? I don't know if that is procedure or not when evidence gets moved during rescue attempts but it seems odd. Jmo

 

[cityslick]

Didn't one of the officer statement say that during the resuscitation the tea was moved and he moved it to the tarp when they covered the body? I don't know if that is procedure or not when evidence gets moved during rescue attempts but it seems odd. Jmo

That whole scene was odd.

Remember the article where it said they did not initially cover the body right away, thus certain evidence may have been washed away.

 

[LambChop]

Don't you think evidence in a murder case should be treated in a technical way?

Don't you find it odd that evidence is set on a body and then mislabeled and photographed?

Why was it put on the body?

Was this some kind of joke?

OMG. No wonder SPD has a reputation. That is awful. Why put the can down on the tarp and then take a picture. It should have been bagged and labeled. Shows LE thought he was just a common . jmo

 

[LoveLegalCases]

That's odd, why did he need an empty bag?

One of the EMS reports aid the EMT asked for a plastic bag and some vaseline to cover the wound. This could be that bag. The evidence lis included a bag with blood evidence on it.

 

[Lovelymountains]

The information about rustling in the bushes might be the missing piece. It's possible TM hid in the bushes and it could be determined to be "lying in wait."

The bushes information might not help the TM case at all.

From the appearance of GZ's minor injuries, I'd say if anyone hid in the bushes it was he. All of those minor injuries look like scratches to me. Sort of like when I've been pruning roses.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I see zero evidence in those pictures that Zimmerman was ever laying on his back in the wet grass.

 

[Maxim]

How thick are those cans? If it was used as a weapon wouldn't it have busted or dented or something? (wondering who I know that would let me whack them over the head with an Arizona can...)

Well, not if the Skittles made contact first, with the weight of the can behind them.

Haha, nobody would be willing. If this is a viable scenario, GZ didn't expect it 'cause it was a sucker punch.

 

[gator]

Has anyone postulated that GZ could have hit his head on the dog waste trash can at the T of the cut-through sidewalk? It looks like it has sharp corners and could possibly produce the straight horizontal lacerations and puncture wounds in the photo of the back of GZ's head. Just a thought.

http://www.wesh.com/r-slideshow/31079394/detail.html
picture 45 shows it

JMO.

 

[TiaMarie]

I disagree.

If the dispatcher wanted him *not* to follow, he needed to say that with clarity and not ambiguity.

Also... the statement about not needing him to do it was made *after* GZ was out of his vehicle.

You characterize what he was doing as a desperate attempt to act like LE. From my POV, he was attempting to stop crime in his neighborhood.

Your emphasis is on who he wanted to *be*....

Mine is on what I think he wanted to *do*....

I happen to have experience in dispatching and those are the exact type phrases they are taught to say. It is a polite way of saying, "DO NOT FOLLOW HIM"

Also, the dispatcher not saying anything until after GZ already left his truck is because the dispatcher most likely heard the wind and the running noises. As soon as the dispatcher determined that GZ was running after TM, he certainly gave him instructions not to do that.

Further, if he didn't care that GZ was following TM, he would have said nothing.

I respect your POV saying that GZ was trying to stop crime in his neighborhood, by profiling a young black male.

 

[Lovelymountains]

Following and confronting are two separate things. GZ was not breaking the law when he got out of his car.

Quite true. And TM was not breaking the law when he was walking down the sidewalk.

 

[LambChop]

I disagree.

If the dispatcher wanted him *not* to follow, he needed to say that with clarity and not ambiguity.

Also... the statement about not needing him to do it was made *after* GZ was out of his vehicle.

You characterize what he was doing as a desperate attempt to act like LE. From my POV, he was attempting to stop crime in his neighborhood.

Your emphasis is on who he wanted to *be*....

Mine is on what I think he wanted to *do*....

BBM: And I guess he failed miserably did he not? His gun could have gone off during his "struggle" and killed the boy walking his dog. Bet he never gave that a thought. Even LE can't arrest someone, stop and detain someone because they "think" they may create a crime. You have to actually start the process. I don't think there is a state statute for arresting someone because in your mind they "look guilty".

It seems people want to blame everyone but GZ. Now it's the dispatcher's fault because he wasn't clear enough. GZ said okay. GZ has trouble with authority and seems to do whatever he wants and never thinks about the consequences. Maybe he feels he doesn't need to be accountable because by some miracle he'll get away with it. He certainly has in the past. jmo

 

[Maxim]

From the appearance of GZ's minor injuries, I'd say if anyone hid in the bushes it was he. All of those minor injuries look like scratches to me. Sort of like when I've been pruning roses.

I haven't heard of any rose vs pruner fights where the rose broke the pruner's nose.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I would sure like to walk around that area looking for something shaped like that mark on Zimmerman's head.

 

[Lovelymountains]

This conversation is an excellent example of Newton's Third Law. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. We're not going to solve anything. The court will. I have faith in our system of justice.

 

[TorisMom003]

I happen to have experience in dispatching and those are the exact type phrases they are taught to say. It is a polite way of saying, "DO NOT FOLLOW HIM"

Also, the dispatcher not saying anything until after GZ already left his truck is because the dispatcher most likely heard the wind and the running noises. As soon as the dispatcher determined that GZ was running after TM, he certainly gave him instructions not to do that.

Further, if he didn't care that GZ was following TM, he would have said nothing.

I respect your POV saying that GZ was trying to stop crime in his neighborhood, by profiling a young black male.

I'm going to add to this great post by saying that those same wind sounds/running noises that led the dispatcher to ask "are you following him?" are still heard for several more seconds after Zimmerman responds "ok" to the "we don't need you to do that" statement. Add to that the fact that Zimmerman was no where near his truck when Trayvon was shot and I say there is the proof that Zimmerman continued to follow/look for Trayvon.

MOO

 

[Lovelymountains]

I haven't heard of any rose vs pruner fights where the rose broke the pruner's nose.

No, but all we know is "Maybe" it was broken. Doesn't look broken to me. Hardly scratched.

 

[LambChop]

I happen to have experience in dispatching and those are the exact type phrases they are taught to say. It is a polite way of saying, "DO NOT FOLLOW HIM"

Also, the dispatcher not saying anything until after GZ already left his truck is because the dispatcher most likely heard the wind and the running noises. As soon as the dispatcher determined that GZ was running after TM, he certainly gave him instructions not to do that.

Further, if he didn't care that GZ was following TM, he would have said nothing.

I respect your POV saying that GZ was trying to stop crime in his neighborhood, by profiling a young black male.

With your experience please tell us how important it is that the dispatcher relays correct information to the police officer in order to keep EVERYONE from getting hurt. I don't think some of us in the public understand what police officers have to deal with because people do these stupid things.

How is it possible to keep people safe when citizens do not listen to what they are being told. Not only is an innocent person dead but this has affected two families and all their friends, neighbors, etc. Just because you can't follow a simple instruction. jmo

 

[Lovelymountains]

I'm going to add to this great post by saying that those same wind sounds/running noises that led the dispatcher to ask "are you following him?" are still heard for several more seconds after Zimmerman responds "ok" to the "we don't need you to do that" statement. Add to that the fact that Zimmerman was no where near his truck when Trayvon was shot and I say there is the proof that Zimmerman continued to follow/look for Trayvon.

MOO

Yes. It sounds to me like heavy breathing as if someone is walking briskly or running. And it did continue for several seconds after GZ was instructed not to follow TM. And IMO "We don't need you to do that," is a non-confrontational way of instructing someone to cease and desist. What else could it possibly mean?