2015.06.28 Timestamp Indicated per Probable Cause Doc

[Satchie]

That's the day the obituary stated as the day of death.

Excellent point about the obituary! I remember some comments about that because I got mixed up about the date and the consensus on here was, LE had told the family that she had died after midnight.

I would think LE would be accurate when they supply death date to the family, since the information will be on the gravestone and all the official records. They wouldn't fudge it for the sake of the investigation.

So to me that indicates 11:19 pm was not the TOD...

 

[Eileen730]

On second thought, wouldn't the TOD be from the time she was discovered deceased?
Monday morning (6-29-15) between 9:30-9:45?
That's the day the obituary stated as the day of death.

One would think But it seems LE has evidence otherwise.

 

[Eileen730]

The medical examiner would determine the TOD.

Unless lets say CWW took a pic!
they seems pretty Precise on that time.

 

[Eileen730]

Excellent point about the obituary! I remember some comments about that because I got mixed up about the date and the consensus on here was, LE had told the family that she had died after midnight.

I would think LE would be accurate when they supply death date to the family, since the information will be on the gravestone and all the official records. They wouldn't fudge it for the sake of the investigation.

So to me that indicates 11:19 pm was not the TOD...

they wont give up info that might harm them catching these guys.
what if they found this information back In Missouri after the obit came out

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Excellent point about the obituary! I remember some comments about that because I got mixed up about the date and the consensus on here was, LE had told the family that she had died after midnight.

I would think LE would be accurate when they supply death date to the family, since the information will be on the gravestone and all the official records. They wouldn't fudge it for the sake of the investigation.

So to me that indicates 11:19 pm was not the TOD...

No, it is standard practice in these cases for official documents, gravestones, etc., to list the date the body or remains were found as the date of death, even if the person died weeks, months, or years earlier. I've seen this on many, many cases and it always causes confusion.

This does not mean they don't have an idea of when the death actually occurred, and the ME will still testify as to the actual time of death at trial.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[flgrl017]

Time will tell what happened at 11:19, but if it is when the alarm system logged the perps first movement in the house, they had some very good info about when her flight was landing.

 

[Eileen730]

The medical examiner would determine the TOD.

What if they have this crime on video?
LE seems to have this down to the Minute.
And like I said the info could have been found back in Missouri with CWW and JR

 

[creepingskills]

On second thought, wouldn't the TOD be from the time she was discovered deceased?
Monday morning (6-29-15) between 9:30-9:45?
That's the day the obituary stated as the day of death.

Excellent point about the obituary! I remember some comments about that because I got mixed up about the date and the consensus on here was, LE had told the family that she had died after midnight.

I would think LE would be accurate when they supply death date to the family, since the information will be on the gravestone and all the official records. They wouldn't fudge it for the sake of the investigation.

So to me that indicates 11:19 pm was not the TOD...

Not uncommon for the date of death (on the death certificate) to list the date that the victim was discovered. I'm guessing that based on the degree of rigor mortis, an ME could estimate the time of death, but not exactly.

I've been reading this site dedicated to parents of murdered children, where a pathologist answers (heartbreaking) questions from the families of murder victims. http://www.pomc.org/bonnell.html very interesting but so, so sad. Here is one Q&A relevant to this discussion:

Can an autopsy tell what time a person was murdered? Can it tell how much pain the person suffered or if the person struggled?

An autopsy, by itself, cannot determine time of death. There are many bits of information used to determine time of death. The most accurate is a reliable witness. After that, we use rigidity/stiffness, lividity or pooling of blood due to gravity, body core temperature, last time the newspaper or mail was picked up, insect activity, message machines, computer logs, etc. By analyzing injuries as to how much damage was done and where they are, we can estimate a survival time(e.go. bullet wound of heart dies faster than bullet wound of stomach) and certain types of wounds are called "defense wounds", i.e. inflicted as the victim tried to defend him/herself.

-Dr. Harry Bonnell

 

[creepingskills]

What if they have this crime on video?
LE seems to have this down to the Minute.
And like I said the info could have been found back in Missouri with CWW and JR

If the murder was on video, IMO, it would've taken a GJ two minutes to indict for first degree.

 

[Eileen730]

If the murder was on video, IMO, it would've taken a GJ two minutes to indict for first degree.

True that but how about a photo on the phone showing her deceased.

 

[IM4TRUTH]

True that but how about a photo on the phone showing her deceased.

They surely wouldn't be that stupid!

 

[creepingskills]

True that but how about a photo on the phone showing her deceased.

May be possible. I know that hit men sometimes take a pic of the victim as proof of death (usually to ensure payment) but in this case, I'm not sure that picture proof would be required since TS's body would surely be discovered deceased the next day. JMO.

 

[Dmacky]

The 11:19 pm could be something as simple as TS calling Mark, to say she just landed in Florida. I found some Nancy Grace transcripts that talks about the airport. It seems short term parking is definitely on camera. As for long term where TS was parked, her producer said it wasn't manned and he didn't actually see a camera...< I think? :gaah:
let me go back and find it.

 

[IM4TRUTH]

The 11:19 pm could be something as simple as TS calling Mark, to say she just landed in Florida. I found some Nancy Grace transcripts that talks about the airport. It seems short term parking is definitely on camera. As for long term where TS was parked, her producer said it wasn't manned and he didn't actually see a camera...< I think? :gaah:
let me go back and find it.

Yes, I think I read that last night from the NG show.

 

[Dmacky]

Here it is
GRACE:We also traveled to the airport it is believed that she entered into. And what did we learn about the airport, Matt Zarrell?

ZARRELL: ... she had used short-term parking. She would have had to go through a toll booth that had a person in there, who would have seen her, and possibly a surveillance camera that also would have seen her. And if someone was in the car with her, maybe they spotted that person as well.

GRACE: You know, I took a long, hard look at what we learned about the airport. If she had parked in short-term, there would have been a camera at the toll for her to exit. In long-term parking, however, are there videocameras, Matt?

ZARRELL: There may be at the booth, but it doesn`t seem to be a manned booth. You would insert a card, and then the gate would open up. There might be a camera there, but from what we can tell, we can`t be sure.

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1507/09/ng.01.html

 

[IM4TRUTH]

Here it is
GRACE:We also traveled to the airport it is believed that she entered into. And what did we learn about the airport, Matt Zarrell?

ZARRELL: ... she had used short-term parking. She would have had to go through a toll booth that had a person in there, who would have seen her, and possibly a surveillance camera that also would have seen her. And if someone was in the car with her, maybe they spotted that person as well.

GRACE: You know, I took a long, hard look at what we learned about the airport. If she had parked in short-term, there would have been a camera at the toll for her to exit. In long-term parking, however, are there videocameras, Matt?

ZARRELL: There may be at the booth, but it doesn`t seem to be a manned booth. You would insert a card, and then the gate would open up. There might be a camera there, but from what we can tell, we can`t be sure.

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1507/09/ng.01.html

There could be a timestamp! Maybe she left the receipt in the van!

 

[Dmacky]

There could be a timestamp! Maybe she left the receipt in the van!

Good find!
That went right over my head even after reading it. TWICE :smile:

 

[IM4TRUTH]

Good find!
That went right over my head even after reading it. TWICE :smile:

Or maybe she paid with a credit card?

 

[creepingskills]

The 11:19 pm could be something as simple as TS calling Mark, to say she just landed in Florida. I found some Nancy Grace transcripts that talks about the airport. It seems short term parking is definitely on camera. As for long term where TS was parked, her producer said it wasn't manned and he didn't actually see a camera...< I think? :gaah:
let me go back and find it.

BBM. Or even a credit card receipt showing TS paid for parking at 11:19PM while exiting the lot.

On the other hand, my better judgment tells me the 11:19PM timestamp is more likely the time shown on evidence connected to CWW. Only because the time was related to probable cause underlying the charge that CWW murdered TS. I can't wrap my head around timestamped evidence coming from TS (receipts, her phone records) that LE would rely on or otherwise base probable cause to arrest CWW for her murder, unless there was a call between TS and CWW or the two were in the same frame of surveillance video at 11:19PM.

I'm HOPING the timestamped evidence is derived from very solid data tying CWW to the murder. Like traffic cameras, or a signal showing CWW or JR's cellphone or rental vehicle within walking distance to Jarvis at 11:19PM.

JMO, if the plane landed at 11:00 and TS was expected home at the earliest by 11:30, 11:19PM just looks like a good time, from a killer's perspective, to already be in the house or just arriving. And this just occurred to me, MS wouldn't even need to tell CWW that TS landed at 11- CWW could simply keep track of arrivals from CT/NY. Maybe CWW checked the arrivals, saw TS's plane landed right before 11PM and it took them exactly 19 minutes to get from point A (where they were staying) to point B (Jarvis).

 

[Dmacky]

I personally doubt she brought home any luggage, except maybe a carry on with her own personal "get ready for work things" necessities e.g. makeup, hair products etc.
The reason being is she had such a long day in Connecticut, a late flight home and an early morning work schedule. I would think MS would have dealt with all of that beings he wasn't on a tight schedule.

** Also, there is no doubt in my mind that mr. computer genius CWW knew exactly was on the Sievers itinerary for that trip. He KNEW TS would be traveling home alone and what time as well. With or without MS giving him information.