30th Anniversary of the "Revolutionary Suicide" at Jonestown

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FWIW I can think of a couple of legitimate reasons there could be veteran's gravemarkers found. These gravemarkers are supplied free of charge by the Veteran's Bureau. 1) If an error is made in the engraving - name, date, etc - they will send out a replacement gravemarker 2) If the family changes their mind and decides to install a fancier, privately supplied marker either at the time of the burial or even years later, the government supplied marker would be removed at that time.

Perhaps the funeral director just never got around to disposing of such markers.
 
I've often pored through Jonestown records looking for missing runaways from that era. I hope these people find a place to rest. While horrific that they've been in a funeral home all this time, at least they were saved and not just tossed away.

Oh, and forgive me for being pedantic, but it was grape flavored Flavor-aid, not Kool-Aid. The Kool-Aid man gets a bad and undeserved rap in this situation.
 
One of the big mysteries of Jonestown was always the layout of the bodies. A thousand people in a rushed suicide/homicide scene that all died of cyanide yet the bodies appear laid out neatly in rows, many in a relaxed position face down.

Aerial photos show the bodies cover a huge area, it seems hard to believe the victims decided to walk out and die in neat rows. Plus cyanide poisoning causes convulsions which makes it even less likely people would die face down in a neat and orderly manner.

I am not into conspiracy theories but that always seemed very very strange.
 
http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfranci...ins-found-in-funeral-home/Content?oid=2899567

State officials have released the names of more than two dozen people, including some victims of the Jonestown, Guyana mass suicide-murder, whose cremated remains were recently discovered inside an abandoned funeral home in Dover after unsuccessful efforts to locate surviving relatives...

Authorities were able to contact the families of five of the deceased, including four Jonestown victims, shortly after they were discovered.

But officials said Monday that further efforts to contact family members of the deceased have been unsuccessful. The names released Monday included those of five other Jonestown victims.
 
One of the big mysteries of Jonestown was always the layout of the bodies. A thousand people in a rushed suicide/homicide scene that all died of cyanide yet the bodies appear laid out neatly in rows, many in a relaxed position face down.

Aerial photos show the bodies cover a huge area, it seems hard to believe the victims decided to walk out and die in neat rows. Plus cyanide poisoning causes convulsions which makes it even less likely people would die face down in a neat and orderly manner.

I am not into conspiracy theories but that always seemed very very strange.

I have heard about this cult but never looked into it. From first impression, I thought the lay out of the bodies was strange.
 
I'm writing another book on Jonestown. It's still 10 months to a year from press but I can post some of the things we have worked up if anyone is interested. The last 20,000 or so documents that were released in the last year or so and the rebirth of the Church has upped some interest.
My part of the work is an examination of the Agriculture Project itself and why it was such a colossal failure in less than 10 months. The FBI has made a torrent download of some of their files it's 1.1 gigabyte or about 20,000 or so documents. Some are interesting-the overwhelming majority are not.
This is a very complex case because it involves so many people and a great deal of it is still unknown and some of the Church's millions still have not been found.The people handling the financial end of this are in the forum ever will be if there is a God in heaven that is.
Rebecca Moore has established a site for alternative opinions of the Church-this work is not connection with that in anyway.

If there are some interested people here I can post some of the 1st and second drafts.
 
These are rumbling ratings, or refresher notes that will be used when the actual project is started-still months away. These are never edited and the staff can change them as they see a need.

Jonestown is a model socialist community deep inside the Guyana rain forest, a dangerous and isolated jungle, that has been transformed into a booming agricultural paradise.

1. Jonestown was not in a rain forest and never has been. If you have ever been to a rain forest it is something you will never forget. Three separate ecosystems that depend on each other however neither is aware of the other. The top level consists of a never ending rainstorm in a humid conditions that is found no where else in the world. The middle level is a mass of vines going out in all directions and loaded with hundreds of animals many have never been cataloged The noise level is beyond anything humans can endure as they never shut up with screams you will never hear anywhere else. The bottom part is a celebration of rot, in which there is no soil, just the smell of swamp gas, as this is where everything ends up-natures landfill

The jungle that surrounded Jonestown is not considered dangerous because, what few animals that survive there, have very little contact with humans.
In the Amazon villages up stream a small city of natives that are the happiest people I have ever met. Ever afternoon around 3 or so everyone heads home to an event that goes back thousands of years. Using boards, tarpaulins discarded metal and what ever else they can find begin to border up there homes before it gets dark. Why? Because when it gets dark here they come-jaguars-and you can't even sit on your stoop because of them. They kill thousands each year, the biggest lot of them are never found.

That is a dangerous Jungle

They used to let tourist into the plains in the Congo. Not anymore because humans can not survive one afternoon much less the entire night.
What got me was out of nowhere hyenas of all shapes, sizes and color begin to circle around you. Then huge ram looking musk ox creatures, that are crazy and unpredictable, and will attack anything-like the side of our truck.Then a huge flock of Vultures lit in the trees inspecting there next meal-me. All that took place in 45 minutes.

That too is a dangerous jungle. The Jonestown settlement and the surrounding jungle was no more dangerous than your basic forest

Sharon Amos never stopped writing for more than 5 years and most of it is in her crappy handwriting that can take all day just to decrypt one sentence-much less a whole paragraph. There are more than 700 pages of this stuff no one has ever tortured themselves with it's decryption.

The complete failure of the Agricultural 'experiment 'is still difficult to fathom. There were three main reasons.

1. The total lack of formal training, or any kind of experience training in Biology, Botany, Chemistry ,Physics ,Anatomy, horticulture, fluid dynamics, management, business, thermal dynamics, husbandry, flock and crop management and so many more skills that were required for such a large endeavor.


Before leaving for Jonestown members filled out sheets of experience sheets and gave themselves professional skills ,they did not possess, as a way to get out of work. This had a huge effect early on.
2. A worthless and useless labor source, when at times,only one in 10 did actual work. A bloated businesses bureaucracy that strangled every function with endless meetings and conflicting ideas.
3. Jones control mechanism that every person should be poor , hungry, confused , tired and frightened to no end. He was a master at this.

Was Jim Jones a genus? In his own was-yes. He had the ability to almost instantly diagnose acute personally disorders-especially in young women. Self loathing being his main target-the only thing they hated more than there lives was themselves. Almost all of his harem had this disorder and many more-the more the better. An exception would be Paula Adams. While she was his number 1 *advertiser censored* and her coming into the temple is somewhat shaky she was not a self loathed miscount at all. Paula was a player, a con artist and a fraud and she was damn proud of it. She was certainly not going to drink poison. In some of the early 'healings 'she was a natural. Her acting and intensity was at the level of an academy award winner. Secretly handing 'father' some store bought chicken liver she fawned at his ability as he pulled the slimy sicknesses from the guts of the people desperate enough to believe in him. You really have to see it to believe it.

if a family sits down for supper with the news on in another room if the newscaster says 'Tom got the flu' no one would pay attention to it.HOWEVER if the news caster say's 'Tom got the 'swine flu' everyone would run to the television room to hear it. Never mind the fact that there never has, or will ever be a 'swine flu' it's just something the media made up. Journalists by nature say this is just another tool in their main mission which is to sell advertisements-informing the public is way on down in importance-near the bottom. They see it as harmless. I don't know about that since I have never worked in that capacity however I could never see it as harmless misinformation called a buzzword.
There is plenty of that thinking in this case. If you recall combine the media made up a term 'Trench coat mafia' which,of course, was silly. However the bureau still had to interview every single kid about it-who promptly laughed at it's stupidity. Months were wasted in doing this.
With this case-that was more than 20years before that case the term 'Angles' somehow came into play. Although the term was meaningless months of time got wasted here as well. There are about 800 affidavits in which they were ask this question-only to be told they never heard of it.
This mess was dumped into the lap of the FBI who had no idea who Jim Jones was and never heard the term 'peoples temple' The graphic photos beamed around the world had people wanting answers now -right now which was impossible.
These are just rambling rustling or 'research tiles' that will be used in the actually writing of the project-still several months away. They are never edited and the staff can change them when they see a need to.

This time emphasis will be placed on section 110-139 in the FBI vault, and decipher the horrible handwriting that no one has ever done.
 
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There are 401 of these in this batch. Some worse than this. They all must be converted.
 
The common misconception that the visit of congressman Ryan was the reason for the last white night is updated by recent documents. Everyone-from lamina(phonic) gardens to San Francisco to the rank and file workers and then all the way to Jim Jones knew it was over. The Peoples Temple had always had a place to run to however now they could run on further.
Everyone knew that Jonestown was dyeing and dragging everyone down with it. At the last white night Jones gave up because:

1. The courts in California had had it with Jim Jones and ordered 86 of the minor dependents to the court for a follow-up. Of course Jones could never allow that-they would simply run off. More damning was the fact that the children got the worst of the torture and finally the first batch of 18 had Maria Katsaris as their guardianship-one look at her and she most likely would be involuntary committed to the nearest Psychotic hospital.


2. With the farm a total disaster Jones sent his people to beg in Georgetown and to beg at local farms the stuff they were throwing away. Never mind the fact that he had about 3 million in cash in a safe under his bed

3. His people were now hated in Georgetown and had to take taxis because their tires on the van kept getting cut.

4. Teri Buford's defection just took the life and soul out of Jones and the project and there was little hope that it could be turned around

There was an election-rigged as usual-and they wanted the project to disperse.

The rank and file workers were getting hard to discipline and moral was as far down as it go.

Even if the Concerned Relatives and and the Congressman could have been dealt with all the other issues were dragging the Peoples Temple to absurdity.
 
What money Jones had rat holed was not going to last very long taking care of more than 900 people. His finances wizards had socked away 14 million in foreign accounts however to draw out American money they must show origin and no doubt the IRS would be part of the process. It took the FBI 11 months to get at it

The Russian movement.

It is hard to understand how the rank and file would have entertained the silly notion that Russia would take on 900 low life Americans when there was a famine in the Ukraine and 2 wars going on and another big was just getting started. From the letters deciphered they believed it because it was all they had. The current thinking that Jones was just stringing the people along till it was time to die is just as hard to understand. Perhaps Jones grandiosity actually had convinced him it was possible-I seriously doubt that.
Sandy Bradshaw
Debbie Blakey
Sharon Amos
Paula Adams
Teri Buford
Maria Katsaris
Touchette Debbie
Karen Layton

These are the main girls in Jones's Harem. He used sex to divide and conquer and they followed suit by hating each other with a passion reserved for jilted women. To the very end they were still trying to usurp each other for Jones favor. With only hours left to the temple Maria Katsaris took the time to backstabbing Adams for not being there in that final moment-writing to Jones that she needed to be punished.
Blakely's book 'Seductive Poison' was ignored as all 'tell all'books are. She made herself out to be the brave escaped hero however she left out everything else.Of all the monsters Jones made-she was one of the worse- not even one sentence about all the horrible things she did for 'father'

In her defense publishers sell books-the truth is always optional-and they may have figured it was the only way to sell the book-or get back what they had invested. Not to say her work was not interesting-parts of it were-however her biggest handicap was the fact that she has some writing talent-and publishers hate that so much. They prefer their minimum wage hacks they can bully and pay them peanuts. Her description of the final night in San Francisco was very enlightening-the first I have heard of it. Jones's final comment that 'I guess we didn't scare them enough a good way to see Jones temperate-and his opinion that someone else was always at fault.
An apology in the work would have been nice but I have been out the publishing business to long to see one was not coming.President Clinton got much more than he bargained for when after the fall of the Soviet Union they released all their files on Lee Harvey Oswald and the Kennedy assassination. To his dread the files confirmed the much hidden fact that Jack Kennedy was a perverted man in the extreme. Kitty Kelly's book that spilled it all is often cited in cases which the 'tell all' book really told it all. The Kitty Kelly approach was probability the best way to sell Blakey's book-who knows why that didn't happen.
torture
The children got the worst of it. An 11year old who slapped another child was lowered down into the well by a rope tied to her feet. At the water line her head was dunked under repeatedly through the day. She was made to scream 'help me Dad' between dunking loud enough for everyone to hear.

The involuntary drugging was just as bad.Shanda James,
, who refused Jones's advances was ordered drugged and Jones came in the infirmary and violently raped her in front of 8 shocked witnesses who said nothing or tried to stop it. Just another day in Jonestown.

The buried box became infamous after Blakey defected and told of it's use. Persons who were late for a meeting, or some other minor infraction, were buried in what punishment called 'Sensory depletion' When Jones found out that in the box they got away from having to listen to his bizarre reports of the news that went on for six hours or so. He ordered it to be modified.
 
5. If that was not enough the arrest file and interviews from Jones's arrest in 73 for raping a 9 boy-which are public documents was going to be released. Jones was able to get the charge lowered to lewdness in public and got the charges dropped. Like so much of his past this one was coming back to haunt him.

6. Guyanese official Dr Reid, a typical bribery-was booted out. He had been on the PT payroll since early 77. All of the contraband allowed with Reid's help was coming down as well. Enormous amounts of illegal drugs and guns were now being investigated by the State Department and the CIA.

7. Jones was right-The American government, tired of his stalling, was out to get him.

8. The Amateur Radio Association had also had enough of his people breaking the rules-over 300 violations in 78 alone. Bribes and payoffs no longer worked
The HAM radio their only contact with the outside world would be severed in 12 days.. The backup plan-moving the radio receiver to Mexico-like so many of their plans this one was done in desperation and stupidity.

9. The Mexican government wanted nothing to do with now tarnished People's Temple. This more than anything else set Jones into his back up plan-the death of the PT, including himself, in some far fetched notion of Revolutionary Suicide.

10. In late May 78 a female American journalist had tried to get in to Jonestown-the Temple, as always, over reacting had several members arrested for starting fires in the Pegasus hotel where she was staying. She had a flight leaving in 10 hours but for some reason they went ahead with Jones's plan.

11. The sexual favors of Paula Adams had run their course as well. Her lies had caught up with her as Commissioner Roberts was sick of her. He complain that "her excuse about having to sell diamonds just to come down and yet she wears American clothing no on in Guyana could afford"

12. Her job of balling Ambassador Mann had now gone to hell. He knew she had to stay with him and beat her regularity during sex and nagged her constantly-about practically everything.
Her comment that she "wasn't a girlfriend but a second wife" got her a beating" although Jones beat the hell his sex partners like clockwork you would have thought she would be used to it by now.

13. Jones and his desperation was at an all time high. Playing Poker for money was legal in Guyana so jones sent his 'card sharks' to win some money. Against professional card players they were decimated as anyone with a brain would know.

14. The custody case of John Stoen was now reaching it's ending as well. Jones sent his top *advertiser censored* to Georgetown to '**** whoever needs ****ing' this time there were no takers. They had had enough as well.
 
Jones had the children die first and they were taken outside the pavilion and laid down. The parents returned to that spot. It took about 5 minuets for the poison to take effect on adults. The senors and kids it was more like 1/2 a minuet. Jones's bodyguards were the last to die and we know that because they all shot their guns as a salute. They may or may not have something to do with the body placement-it's always a mute point.There are no points of referents in the photos from the air it is a much smaller crime scene than it appears.

The Peoples Temple was not a cult.
 
Hi spooky!

I'm about to go out for dinner tonight but am interested in responding to your posts and in Jonestown in general. I will write tomorrow or the next day. In the meantime I have a question for you: Did you mean to say the Peoples Temple was not a cult? If so, why?
 
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Even the FBI was impressed by Codes. They are impressive!!. Difficult or quite impossible without the Code book.

The Temple had a very solid and rigid Socialist government. There were 19 different departments and 5 levels of government. That, in its self, disqualifies them for being a Cult.
 

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Even the FBI was impressed by Codes. They are impressive!!. Difficult or quite impossible without the Code book.

The Temple had a very solid and rigid Socialist government. There were 19 different departments and 5 levels of government. That, in its self, disqualifies them for being a Cult.

Uh. How you figure exactly? Like, what definition of "cult" are you using for your definition? Definitive statements usually have something supporting them.

If you said, "the definition of a cult, (link included), states an organization must have no more than 18 departments and 4 levels of government to be considered by the FBI and Interpol to fit the criterion for a cult," then sure, fine, but there's no weight like that here?

Perhaps depends somewhat on one's definition of, and the people's temple's definition of "government."

For some reason this is making me think of Scientology...an even more massive, multi-layered cult.
 
The FBI said that were not a cult. After they finished a 2 year criminal investigation. Cults don't have a bureaucracy especially one like Temple-they moved mountains of paper around-it really is incredible. I think I'm the only fool that has gone through it all.

It's hard not to feel sorry for them-they tried so very hard.
 
"California Congressman Leo Ryan was concerned. He’d been hearing that there was trouble in “Jonestown,” the makeshift settlement carved out of the jungle of Guyana by the charismatic Jim Jones and his cult-like following called the Peoples Temple."

And

"They opened fire on one plane, while a cultist named Larry Layton on board the other pulled out a gun and began shooting."

From

https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/jonestown

You could be right, but the article above at FBI.gov says cult-like, which granted isn't technically "cult, " but then they refer to a member as a "cultist."

Tomato tomato
 
On November 18, 1978, while investigating human rights abuses by a large cult led by James Warren “Jim” Jones (1931-1978), Congressman Leo Ryan (1925-1978) and several companions were murdered by Jones’ followers. Ryan had traveled to “Jonestown,” the cult’s compound in the South American country of Guyana, at the behest of his constituents, some of whom had family members in the cult.

https://vault.fbi.gov/jonestown/

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
Following this thread with some interest as I've personally found it difficult to believe that so many chose death. There were reports way back when (if someone wants I can try to find links) that many bodies had bullet holes -- indicating events didn't go as planned ?
Idk.

There's similarities in the 'adoration' of Jone's followers and another person who started a cult-like Baptist college in the south. People who weren't allowed to speak any evil of this person despite strong evidence of wrongdoing.
:moo:

Thanks spooky for all of the new info.
 

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