4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #77

[BeginnerSleuther]

So what if we look at this from a different angle while we wait for each breadcrumb to fall between now and June- for you long term super-sleuthers especially, can you think of a more recent case similar to this where

• a suspect is zeroed in on by LE (moo my own characterization),
• arrested in extremely high profile and costly way,
• scrutinized intensely by public/media/social media

but the investigation ended up going in a completely different direction and another person being arrested/convicted?

I think you could leave off that last sentence and have practically the same answer. There's a reason the plane ride to ID was labeled the "air Bronco" by some. MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I certainly might have been bloody but he must have been able to clean it enough that he didn't mind letting his Dad in the car. They are not a family of means, and a car is a big asset. I think his father would have been shocked by the condition of the car if it was obviously and badly stained. I mean a spot or two you can chalk up to a drive through accident. More than that, I don't know. MOOooo

ETA my MOOooo

Oh I expect he would have cleaned it, no doubt. But LE will still know if there was blood. MOO

 

[Red Clover]

All IMO-MOO
The live stream video from the grub truck-- BK could have known that KG/MM might go there after the bar and have been watching for them and seen them on the live feed. From what I saw they both looked a little tipsy (not a judgement)

If he had been stalking one or both of them, he would know they'd be on their way home and to bed soon.

BK heads out from Pullman, turns off his phone, arrives at the house, circling until the house is quiet, parking out of sight.

Is it possible XK got regular late night deliveries and BK had a Door Dash driver account just so he could track orders that came in late night?

I think he saw the DD delivery guy at 4:00 am and came in through the slider as the driver made his delivery, maybe he was already parked and out of sight when the delivery driver arrived.

I've also wondered if he did come back in around 9:00 am; to either try to find the sheath, to collect souvenirs or even to admire his handiwork.

IF he was used to hot prowling and he believed he'd killed everyone in the house he may have wandered around abit and even possibly left through the front door leaving it open in hopes someone would notice something was amiss.

Here's something I've contemplated; Is it possible there's two different TOD's?
4:00-4:20 am for KG/MM and later, if he returned, around 9:00 am for XK/E?

It may not be the case and may have not been possible but 4 murders in 15 minutes in and out seems like such a tight timeline.

I can imagine him being able to dump clothes etc is in a semi public dumpster, in a park or a business or apartment complex on his way home. I can't imagine him dumping it in a field or creek along the way as it could be found so much easier.

Idaho murders: Bryan Kohberger investigation clues revealed as court unseals heavily redacted documents

An Idaho court unsealed dozens of heavily redacted documents Friday, granting only a peek into what police have gathered in the University of Idaho student murders investigation.

www.foxnews.com

"With Kaylee, I think that somehow he was tracking her," John Kelly, a criminal profiler and psychotherapist, said of the alleged suspect Tuesday. "And I don’t think it's a coincidence Kaylee hadn’t been living there. So, now the weekend that Kaylee comes back is the weekend that this guy hits."

Goncalves was set to graduate and was preparing to move to Texas for a new job, and she returned to Moscow from her home two hours away in part to show off her new SUV...

The day before the murders, she posted images to social media, including her public Instagram, showing that she was in town and went out to a favorite local watering hole, the Corner Club, with her best friend, Mogen.

Police arrested Kohberger at his parents' house on Dec. 30, entering to find him in shorts and a T-shirt, wearing latex gloves and stuffing his personal trash into Ziploc bags in the kitchen.

The first item seized from Bryan Kohberger's parents' home listed is a knife. All four University of Idaho victims had been stabbed to death around 4 a.m. on Nov. 13, 2022, according to police. Another item that stands out: a "book with underlining on page 118."(Pennsylvania Courts)

A more readable version of items seized in PA, lots of dark clothing and gloves.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1645648518449643520

 

[SophieRose]

So what if we look at this from a different angle while we wait for each breadcrumb to fall between now and June- for you long term super-sleuthers especially, can you think of a more recent case similar to this where

• a suspect is zeroed in on by LE (moo my own characterization),
• arrested in extremely high profile and costly way,
• scrutinized intensely by public/media/social media

but the investigation ended up going in a completely different direction and another person being arrested/convicted?

Richard Ricci:

Kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yosemite murders. I went to Yosemite Memorial Day weekend. FBI had said it was safe even though no one had been charged with the murders. The ranger told us don't be scared of serial killers, watch out for bears. Julie Armstrong was murdered by Stayner in Jul 1999.

Who Killed Yosemite Tourists?

FBI Questions Men With Criminal Pasts

www.cbsnews.com

Apr 1999

The FBI may be closing in on the killers of three female tourists at Yosemite National Park. A federal grand jury is hearing from witnesses in the case.

CBS News Correspondent Vince Gonzales reports that federal agents have zeroed in on a small group of friends, ex-cons, and crystal methamphetamine users who they believe may be responsible for carjacking and murdering Carole Sund, 44, her daughter, Julie, 15, and a family friend, Silvina Pelosso, 16.
=====**

2001 Anthrax attacks. SH named person of interest in 2002. Lawsuit settled against FBI in 2008 and SH exonerated.

BREAKING NEWS: Hatfill search warrant made public

A federal court released today documents related to the 2001 anthrax attacks where Stephen Hatfill (left) was falsely accused as the person behind the attacks. According to a search warrant,

www.fredericknewspost.com

July 31 (2008): Bruce E. Ivins, 62, dies of an apparent suicide at a hospital in Frederick, Md., the Los Angeles Times reported, after being informed by the FBI that charges likely were being brought against him in connection with the 2001 anthrax attacks.

 

[Bogbacal2]

I took A pic from the 1122 kings row house and tagged a couple of things. Did it in a hurry, I won’t be offended if there’s criticism!

 

[maconrich]

I took A pic from the 1122 kings row house and tagged a couple of things. Did it in a hurry, I won’t be offended if there’s criticism!

This is great - thank you. Question though: isn't DM's door to the right of the stairs (coming down them) or am I looking at it wrong? Extremely possible I'm looking wrong because this house continues to confound me.

 

[maskedwoman]

So what if we look at this from a different angle while we wait for each breadcrumb to fall between now and June- for you long term super-sleuthers especially, can you think of a more recent case similar to this where

• a suspect is zeroed in on by LE (moo my own characterization),
• arrested in extremely high profile and costly way,
• scrutinized intensely by public/media/social media

but the investigation ended up going in a completely different direction and another person being arrested/convicted?

Very interesting question. In Nashville TN, the Marcia Trimble case disappeared while delivering Girl Scout cookies in 1975 and was found strangled. The case went unsolved until 2008. Her brother was rumored to have killed her, and a teenage neighbor was suspected (and arrested at one point) for years. Eventually, improved DNA testing tied a man with a record of sexual assaults to the murder and, once confronted, Jerome Barrett confessed and was convicted. He was also suspected in the murder of a local nurse and the rape of a college student, within a few months of Marcia's murder, but had never been a suspect during the initial investigation into Marcia's case. Marcia was 3 years younger than me and it changed my hometown forever.

 

[10ofRods]

So what if we look at this from a different angle while we wait for each breadcrumb to fall between now and June- for you long term super-sleuthers especially, can you think of a more recent case similar to this where

• a suspect is zeroed in on by LE (moo my own characterization),
• arrested in extremely high profile and costly way,
• scrutinized intensely by public/media/social media

but the investigation ended up going in a completely different direction and another person being arrested/convicted?

I like to say that late night service of warrants in a quadruple homicide case are not *that* expensive. I suppose someone got overtime, but the managers (the command) are on salary and didn't get extra pay (IMO). The arrest was only high profile because the crime was high profile.

But, truthfully, LE often speak about how they learn so much from really doing a thing, as opposed to merely practicing it. We have a specially constructed building in our area that is used for fire training (it is sometimes "set on fire") and it is also used to simulate searching an apartment building in case of disaster like earthquake. That's all very good, but whenever someone donates an actual house to be burned down (and practiced upon), it's much better training. And of course, everyone knows that brand new firemen lack the experience of ones who've been doing it a few years.

So, there are often eager young LEO's who are willing to volunteer for such assignments, as well (to be assigned to a special task force that can have unusual hours but not receive overtime). At least, that's how it's done where I've worked.

No investigations of the type you ask about come to my mind, either from high profile cases or from ones much less publicized. I'm sure there are some, somewhere. There are occasional stories in the news about people getting out of prison after years, exonerated by DNA. That's all I got.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

Just thinking, if I was a victim how grateful I would be for police work like this.

No matter the trial outcome, if the ID belongs to one of the victims, at least they would have retrieved my ID from being hidden in a glove, in a box, in a room in a house where my alleged murdrer was free to contemplate it whenever he wanted to revisit my demise.

It has occurred to me that if NN is finding "leaks" about the ID box, it could well be coming from a place like PA, where the gag order does not extend.

If so, good for NN for tracking down someone who would talk. I remain hopeful that one of the ID's was a victim ID (but I bet there's a bigger story in that box).

IMO.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

So what if we look at this from a different angle while we wait for each breadcrumb to fall between now and June- for you long term super-sleuthers especially, can you think of a more recent case similar to this where

• a suspect is zeroed in on by LE (moo my own characterization),
• arrested in extremely high profile and costly way,
• scrutinized intensely by public/media/social media

but the investigation ended up going in a completely different direction and another person being arrested/convicted?

No, @CLGM, I honestly can't think of "a more recent case" like you asked about that meets your 3 bulleted criteria and the last sentence, i.e., "another person being arrested/convicted".

Frankly, I would eat my sombrero whole in one gulp, if LE's investigation led them anywhere but to BK as the alleged killer of Kaylee, Madddie, Xana, and Ethan.

Even if someone else was involved or aided or abetted/was an accomplice in some way that led up to the murders, innocently or otherwise.

ETA: If not clear the way I worded it, BK did the killing himself, IMO, and if anyone else may have suspected or known about his stalking/voyeurism (or even if they "shared in" it) they could not have recognized it as part of an earlier phase of his planning to then murder the people he stalked.

MOO

 

[Bogbacal2]

This is great - thank you. Question though: isn't DM's door to the right of the stairs (coming down them) or am I looking at it wrong? Extremely possible I'm looking wrong because this house continues to confound me.

It’s the way it’s positioned! There’s a closet a little to the right of her door

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I took A pic from the 1122 kings row house and tagged a couple of things. Did it in a hurry, I won’t be offended if there’s criticism!

I do believe DM's room is on the other side of the stairway to 3rd floor, from the kitchen. Arrow to her room would point left in your diagram, not right.

(I have a floorplan photo saved that shows this, but I don't know what news article it was from so I don't believe I can post it without doing some research.)

 

[maconrich]

It’s the way it’s positioned! There’s a closet a little to the right of her door

Thanks! Told ya the house confuses the fudge out of me Your details are very helpful!

@Auntie Cipation now I'm confused again. Hmmmm...

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Yosemite murders. I went to Yosemite Memorial Day weekend. FBI had said it was safe even though no one had been charged with the murders. The ranger told us don't be scared of serial killers, watch out for bears. Julie Armstrong was murdered by Stayner in Jul 1999.

Who Killed Yosemite Tourists?

FBI Questions Men With Criminal Pasts

www.cbsnews.com

Apr 1999

The FBI may be closing in on the killers of three female tourists at Yosemite National Park. A federal grand jury is hearing from witnesses in the case.

CBS News Correspondent Vince Gonzales reports that federal agents have zeroed in on a small group of friends, ex-cons, and crystal methamphetamine users who they believe may be responsible for carjacking and murdering Carole Sund, 44, her daughter, Julie, 15, and a family friend, Silvina Pelosso, 16.
=====**

2001 Anthrax attacks. SH named person of interest in 2002. Lawsuit settled against FBI in 2008 and SH exonerated.

BREAKING NEWS: Hatfill search warrant made public

A federal court released today documents related to the 2001 anthrax attacks where Stephen Hatfill (left) was falsely accused as the person behind the attacks. According to a search warrant,

www.fredericknewspost.com

July 31 (2008): Bruce E. Ivins, 62, dies of an apparent suicide at a hospital in Frederick, Md., the Los Angeles Times reported, after being informed by the FBI that charges likely were being brought against him in connection with the 2001 anthrax attacks.

And let's not forget Richard Jewell. The poor man's reputation was destroyed and he's lucky he wasn't killed by a mob of angry people after he was very publicly accused of being the Olympic Park bomber.

Richard Jewell - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Auntie Cipation]

OK, it appears the source of my floorplan was a post @otto made back in thread 21, post 430. Otto, can you link where you found this floorplan? Or did you create it?

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 21

Some WS with knowledge of sororities said that it isn't rare for seniors to drop out due to the cost. But that would only mean Maddie, not Xana. JMO I have some inside knowledge around sororities and that is something I have never heard of. It’s not something you just drop out of.

www.websleuths.com

 

[U.N. Known]

And they didn't even say it was someone in the house, IIRC. I believe they said a source says an ID "connected" to the house or connected to the murders or something. For all we know, it's the ID of one of the survivors or it's a fake ID BK had or something. We have no idea.

I believe the only mention of ID in the PCA was in reference to Xana's, which the police found. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

MOO.

Which for all intents and purposes could mean it belongs to BK. As the defendant, he is connected to the murders found guilty or not.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

But, truthfully, LE often speak about how they learn so much from really doing a thing, as opposed to merely practicing it. We have a specially constructed building in our area that is used for fire training (it is sometimes "set on fire") and it is also used to simulate searching an apartment building in case of disaster like earthquake. That's all very good, but whenever someone donates an actual house to be burned down (and practiced upon), it's much better training. And of course, everyone knows that brand new firemen lack the experience of ones who've been doing it a few years.

RB&SBM
I wish they would donate this house of horror for that type of use since the university plans to tear it down anyway. It would be a win/win for all. MOO

 

[maconrich]

This floor plan matches the one you shared @Auntie Cipation

Both images are from 1122 King Road, Moscow, Idaho Tour

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

RB&SBM
I wish they would donate this house of horror for that type of use since the university plans to tear it down anyway. It would be a win/win for all. MOO

I'm not sure about that. That house symbolizes a very deep trauma, not just for the victims' families (and the two survivors), but for the community. And honestly, that includes even LE. I think it would be a bad idea for it to remain standing for training.

 

[Boxer]

No, @CLGM, I honestly can't think of "a more recent case" like you asked about that meets your 3 bulleted criteria and the last sentence, i.e., "another person being arrested/convicted".

Frankly, I would eat my sombrero whole in one gulp, if LE's investigation led them anywhere but to BK as the alleged killer of Kaylee, Madddie, Xana, and Ethan.

Even if someone else was involved or aided or abetted/was an accomplice in some way that led up to the murders, innocently or otherwise.

ETA: If not clear the way I worded it, BK did the killing himself, IMO, and if anyone else may have suspected or known about his stalking/voyeurism (or even if they "shared in" it) they could not have recognized it as part of an earlier phase of his planning to then murder the people he stalked.

MOO

MOO if BK had an accessory or an accomplice it was through help on line. Apparently he can impress on-line, as shown by his DeSales criminology professor's glowing assessment of him.