4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #77

[gliving]

State of Idaho v. Bryan C. Kohberger​

Latah County CR29-22-2805

Case Summary (Updated 04/10/23)

The case summary gets updated almost daily but so far I haven't seen anything new released publically. At least we know there's a buzz of activity.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

State of Idaho v. Bryan C. Kohberger​

Latah County CR29-22-2805

Case Summary (Updated 04/10/23)

The case summary gets updated almost daily but so far I haven't seen anything new released publically. At least we know there's a buzz of activity.

Anyone know when the Idaho Supreme Court is expected to rule on the gag order?

 

[CGray123]

Why do you think the Defense attorneys wont know the answers to the questions they may ask DM on the witness stand? The aren't sitting around on their hands. They will know her full statement, maybe interview her, they will talk to her friends, know her whereabouts that night, see her phones records and know who she called and texted that night. There isn't a thing about DM that the Defense wont know by trial.

I have removed a bunch of this post since we aren't supposed to discuss her statement. But it is going to be fair game for the defense for sure.

Respectfully, some of us are inclined to speculate upon speculation, and that's OK with me. But as I stated, my speculation is based on the facts I know.

I don't know whether the information in DM's statement, etc. will provide fertile grounds for cross examination or not, because I don't know what those documents contain, or what she will say when interviewed - IF she agrees to be interviewed. It's at least possible that she will prove to be a terrible witness for the prosecution, but so far, the analyses to that effect are based on made up facts - "what ifs".

In the absence of known killer answers, I would be inclined to take what I could easily get on cross-examination and not risk tripping a land mine answer. It's just good basic trial tactics IMO.

Having had my inexpert say, I'm content to let those who speculate upon dubious speculation have the last word - as many last words as they like, in fact.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

I said members should not question DM's "credibility or potential testimony". I didn't say that members could not discuss what is in the PCA. AFAIK, there is no 'statement' of any kind by DM that we are privy to, only what is contained in the PCA which is most likely a brief summary. We don't want to paint a victim/witness in a bad light by speculating on what a defense counsel may ask or say at trial. We know they can try to trash a witness on the stand and insinuate and bring up all sorts of issues or questions at trial to create reasonable doubt but that doesn't make it true and that is yet to be.

The problem we had on the thread is that members were assigning negative connotations to DM as a victim when there is nothing to substantiate such speculation. (Posts speculating that she was drunk or high were removed. That negative speculation ended up stated as fact in many posts down thread with "well, because she was drunk ...".)

Will defense counsel ask her about her sobriety? Possibly/probably, but that is not for WSers to speculate negatively when we don't know if she was or wasn't. Same goes for the timing of the 911 call ... to insinuate that it is somehow suspicious on her part is not victim friendly. Will counsel question her about that? Possibly, but again, to somehow speculate or insinuate that there is some nefarious element to it is not in the spirit of Websleuths.

Members may speculate to the nth degree and discuss whatever they wish in private messaging but on the public thread, Websleuths remains as victim friendly as possible.

 

[wary]

I don’t find anything particularly odd in DM’s actions, either.

I suspect that DM was startled, frightened, and talked herself out of her fear. Gavin deBecker wrote an entire book, The Gift of Fear, on how people do that.

At twice her age, I talked myself out of calling 911 when someone was trying to break into my home. “No, it’s just the wind.”

So, referring to deBecker again, DM may well have picked up something in this person’s body language that somehow just didn’t fit the pattern of someone sauntering out after a late date. But then, the self doubt may have begun. Wearing a mask? We’ve all lived through three years of mask-wearing! Dark clothing? What’s sinister about that! No, in my opinion, not very odd.

MOO

 

[TeaTime]

I believe it's "ID cards" inside glove inside box. The handwriting is really bad. I noticed looking at other words that they make their a's look like u's, for one thing.

View attachment 413892

Thanks you so much! I can not see it at all. You are a gem!

 

[Gemmie]

Thanks you so much! I can not see it at all. You are a gem!

I have to give the credit to others who came up with that. But I did notice the a's look like u's, as well as how some other oddly written letters were written, so I have to agree with all that came up with "ID cards inside glove inside box". I'm pretty darn certain there weren't 10 curls found. LOL

 

[TeaTime]

<modsnip>

By the time the 19 year old opened her door and saw the athletic, bushy eyebrowed, masked man, everyone was already dead. Calling 911 immediately would not have changed the outcome and she had absolutely no reason to suspect that four murders were happening in the shared house.

"IDs". More than one. Only one was from someone in the house. Do we have any idea as to which person? To whom do the others belong?

 

[Gemmie]

<modsnip>

By the time the 19 year old opened her door and saw the athletic, bushy eyebrowed, masked man, everyone was already dead. Calling 911 immediately would not have changed the outcome and she had absolutely no reason to suspect that four murders were happening in the shared house.

"IDs". More than one. Only one was from someone in the house. Do we have any idea as to which person? To whom do the others belong?

I apologize if I'm out of the loop, but do we know for a fact if one of the IDs was from someone in the house? I don't recall reading that in the PCA. (Don't roast me if y'all know it was and I don't! LOL)

 

[wary]

I apologize if I'm out of the loop, but do we know for a fact if one of the IDs was from someone in the house? I don't recall reading that in the PCA. (Don't roast me if y'all know it was and I don't! LOL)

Absolutely not in the PCA. At this time, in my opinion we don’t have any credible source saying that an ID was from someone in the house. We do have an unnamed source quoted as saying that, in a MSM article. For me, that’s not enough, but I sure hope it’s true, since if true, I think it’d be nearly conclusive.

(I know—BK’s attorney might say that he might have found it lying on the sidewalk, and picked it up, planning to return it to its rightful owner. BK, the unluckiest man in America.)

MOO

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I apologize if I'm out of the loop, but do we know for a fact if one of the IDs was from someone in the house? I don't recall reading that in the PCA. (Don't roast me if y'all know it was and I don't! LOL)

I think we have only a recent news report, with IIRC unidentified source, saying there was an ID belonging to someone "associated with" the house.

That could be: an immediate victim, a roommate survivor, or a friend or family member, IMO.

We also don't know if the ID was taken from the house or not, during the crime or not.

For all we know it was found on the street months before.

All speculation and MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Absolutely not in the PCA. At this time, in my opinion we don’t have any credible source saying that an ID was from someone in the house. We do have an unnamed source quoted as saying that, in a MSM article. For me, that’s not enough, but I sure hope it’s true, since if true, I think it’d be nearly conclusive.

(I know—BK’s attorney might say that he might have found it lying on the sidewalk, and picked it up, planning to return it to its rightful owner. BK, the unluckiest man in America.)

MOO

And they didn't even say it was someone in the house, IIRC. I believe they said a source says an ID "connected" to the house or connected to the murders or something. For all we know, it's the ID of one of the survivors or it's a fake ID BK had or something. We have no idea.

I believe the only mention of ID in the PCA was in reference to Xana's, which the police found. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I think we have only a recent news report, with IIRC unidentified source, saying there was an ID belonging to someone "associated with" the house.

That could be: an immediate victim, a roommate survivor, or a friend or family member, IMO.

We also don't know if the ID was taken from the house or not, during the crime or not.

For all we know it was found on the street months before.

All speculation and MOO

BBM. That's a good point. I wonder if one of the occupants of the house lost her ID and maybe BK found it. Maybe that was the start of the infatuation. MOO.

 

[Nova]

I guess we will.

I don't believe there's a court in the land that would stop a defense attorney from asking an eyewitness who was awake at 4 a.m. on a Saturday night if she had been drinking. Not to impeach her, per se, but to ascertain whether her condition affected what she could see and recall. But maybe you are right, if I understand correctly that you think the defense would have to first establish some foundation for the question.

Per the NY POST, DM was 21 at the time. She wasn't "underage" for alcohol consumption.

My lawyer (criminal defender, though not of me) is visiting for the holiday weekend. I'll ask her about the rules of evidence in this regard.

Replying to my own post because I said I would check with my lawyer:

She says she isn't up on Idaho law but, without researching the issue, she can't imagine a murder case where the defense would NOT be allowed to ask whether an eyewitness was impaired by alcohol consumption. She compared it to asking an eyewitness whether s/he wears contact lens and, if so, did s/he have them in when s/he saw whatever s/he witnessed? Such questions are perfectly legitimate, even if they require a few preliminary questions to establish a foundation.

TO BE CLEAR, THIS QUESTION AROSE FROM A PURELY HYPOTHETICAL DISCUSSION OF TRIAL RULES. NOBODY--NEITHER I NOR THE POSTER WHO DISAGREED WITH ME--WAS SAYING THAT DM WAS DRUNK, HIGH, IMPAIRED OR OTHERWISE UNABLE TO KNOW WHAT SHE WAS SEEING WHEN SHE ENCOUNTERED THE INTRUDER. For all I know, DM has never touched alcohol (or illegal drugs) in her life!

 

[Nova]

DM was 21? I didn't know that. Thanks for the correction.

Well, she was per the NY POST. I have no independent knowledge of her age.

 

[Nova]

Is it weird that he could get a masters in criminology without doing the undergrad coursework?

It varies with the field of study and the individual program. The Ph.D. program I attended used to give a diagnostic test to all entering students (regardless of their previous degree(s)) and might require an individual student to take certain courses to repair what was deemed a neglected "area" of the field.

At the end of the first year we had oral exams that covered all courses we had taken and one might be dismissed if one had not rectified the established absence of knowledge.

 

[al66pine]

Timeline, ToD. If Prosecutor Does Not Call DM???

IIRC, the 911 call was made at approx. (10-15 min. before) noon and first responders arrived shortly thereafter, and the med. responders pronounced them dead. Later all confirmed deceased by coroner, IIRC.

From time of victims being LAST SEEN (weren't E & X seen at frat party at ___ o'clock, and K & M reported last seen by driver, who picked them up at Grub Truck & dropped at 1122 King at ___ o'clock???)
One or all may have left DIGITAL TRACKS (email, phone, DD order, etc.) TENDING to prove still living. But def. team may attack.

Aside from those digital trails, what EVD could the state use to BOOK-END the ToDs, thus the murders, that is, to show they were still alive at, say, approx. 4 a.m.?
Is it crucial for state to show they were still alive AFTER the ^ LAST SEEN times? Maybe not, IDK.
Sorry for all the IIRCs, but hazy on these details.

 

[jepop]

I am absolutely not convinced he wore coveralls, let alone a "kill suit". To *me* your scenario of basically a complete wardrobe change outside of his car in freezing temperatures doesn't match his high rate of speed exit. He was going fast enough to leave (presumably) those yaw marks we saw LE measuring. One action (wardrobe change) is methodical, the other (yaw marks) is not. JMO

If anything, I can imagine a plastic drop cloth ala Walmart being put over the seat. Beyond that, not so much of anything. JMO

There's also probably a 15 minute approx(?) gap that some WSs figured out. That after leaving Queen St at approx 4.20pm at high speed (as per PCA), BK's phone came back on line (is switched on/switched off airplane mode) at4.48am and is at that point pinging off/near Blaine, Idaho. Although we can't be sure of exact positions, per PCA some figured that that there is a 15 min gap re BK's whereabouts there because driving direct to vicinity of Blaine as conjectured in PCA would have taken no more than 15 mins. So anyway... if he had the car interior decked out prior with plastic sheets or however that might be done, during the 15 min gap he may have stopped somewhere quiet off road and done his changing and stripping then. Also perhaps some kind of cover over steering wheel? But maybe not over his veiecle pedals...MOO

There is a simalar length of gap between c2.47am and c3.26/3.28 am when BK's phone stops connecting to the the network in south Pullman on Nov 13th and when the suspect vehicle white elantra (sans front number plate) is picked up by surveilance video first heading west on Indian Hills Drive and then heading west on Stymer (?) Ave, before arriving to commence the first pass past King/Queen St residence at 3.29am.( All from memory per PCA). The journey to Indian Hills drive direct from Pullman would take about 15 mins max I think, either going via the main highway or via Johnson/Sand Road. MOO

I speculated somewhere before on prior threads that perhaps there was some rural off-road spot BK knew east of the block on Indian Hills Drive where the elantra was recorded. So he could have gone there prior to 'prepare' and after to disrobe/change. Just some thoughts, just speculation. MOO


MOO

 

[jepop]

Timeline, ToD. If Prosecutor Does Not Call DM???

IIRC, the 911 call was made at approx. (10-15 min. before) noon and first responders arrived shortly thereafter, and the med. responders pronounced them dead. Later all confirmed deceased by coroner, IIRC.

From time of victims being LAST SEEN (weren't E & X seen at frat party at ___ o'clock, and K & M reported last seen by driver, who picked them up at Grub Truck & dropped at 1122 King at ___ o'clock???)
One or all may have left DIGITAL TRACKS (email, phone, DD order, etc.) TENDING to prove still living. But def. team may attack.

Aside from those digital trails, what EVD could the state use to BOOK-END the ToDs, thus the murders, that is, to show they were still alive at, say, approx. 4 a.m.?
Is it crucial for state to show they were still alive AFTER the ^ LAST SEEN times? Maybe not, IDK.
Sorry for all the IIRCs, but hazy on these details.

BBM: Calls from KG's phone to her ex. I believe the last of those was reported at being at approx 3amish. MOO...am searching for the relevant reports/LE press conferences if someone doesn't beat me to it.

Oh, and the Door Dash delivery at approx 4am (as per PCA and I am definately assuming that has been confirmed as fact via LE investigation/interview with the driver).MOO

XK's tiktok activity at 4.12am? (per PCA).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bouncing off, RE TOD and MEdical Examiner's findings.
We aren't privy to the autopsy findings re TOD at this point, as far as I'm aware. I don't know much about how that might have been determined and what window the findings might offer. My general understanding doesn't extend beyond the odd bits and pieces from crime shows and specifics related to the odd other case I've had an interest in. I've forgotten those specifics, probably for good reasons...

MOO

Edited to delete sentence in para 1.

ETA: Duh sorry, I just paid proper attention to your post and see you write... "besides digital trails" and I guess most of what I wrote in response pertains to a digital trail but maybe not KG 3amish calls, maybe not assumed interview with doordash driver (though again there is no proof at present to show that DM received the delivery). MOO

 

[jepop]

Are we at liberty to discuss DM's statement or not? I was under the impression we shouldn't since she is a victim. I think she is a victim, but her story is ripe for the defense to punch holes in. I look at her statement objectively, not believing or disbelieving. What does her statement say, and what does it not say? Why does the PCA exclude some obvious facts? Did I say she found the bodies? If I did, I didn't mean to. Part of the mystery is who exactly did find them. And we don't know what that is still a mystery.

RBBM: Well, I think we know that friends were called and I am assuming they were called after the surviving roommates decided to after waking up later that morning. We don't know exactly when but we know the sequence of events: roommates decided to call friends, roommates called friends, friends arrived, body/bodies/perceived unconscious person was ascertained, 911 was called at c 11.50am. How long did those sequential events take to occur? Who knows as there are factors that we don't know such as the precise time roommates called the friends and how long it took the friends to arrive. MOO. But to me that series of events in and of itself does not have anything to do with when the murders took place. MOO

I agree with others who say that the gap between when DM shut and locked her door, or the gap between say approx 4.20am and whenever it was that DM/BF arose/awoke/left their rooms the morning after is a gap into which the defense will seek to inject some doubt as to the timing of the murders, so as to suggest that another, unknown perpetrator may have had the opportunity to commit the crimes after,say, 4.20/4.30am and between the time roommates arose. I'm just not sure how defense may go about that, other than noting the gap.. They may want to attack LE forensics in some way, but there are too many unknowns at this point IMO to speculate much. JMO

ETA additional detai lto para 1.