4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #77

[Tricia]

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[10ofRods]

"It's ok, I'm here to help."

snipped for focus @girlhasnoname

Note. Not questioning DM's credibility or potential testimony, not
speculating about what she saw.
Am questioning what PCA (can't find ATM) said and/or OP's source re Voice ID.

I recall the PCA stated DM told LE she heard someone say "It's ok, I'm here to help."

Did PCA state DM IDENTIFIED THE VOICE as BK's? (can't find ATM)

In early interviews w DM, say, before BK hit LE's radar, seems DM could have said, I heard a MALE VOICE saying, "It's ok..."
And/or DM may have said voice did not sound like Ethan (or Tom, Dick or Harry, known visitors to 1122).
imo

BTW, any vid clip w BK SPEAKING? Anyone? TiA.

No, she didn't identify the voice as BK's. She had no way of doing that, unless she already knew BK. It was a man's voice. She apparently didn't say it was Ethan's voice (she would have recognized Ethan's voice, IMO) so I think it's safe to assume this was a stranger male's voice.

It's not in the PCA whether DM specifically stated "It's not X, Y or Z's voice" but I am confident that LE asked her those questions (did she recognize the voice? the answer was likely no, she did not).

I've never heard or read of any samples of BK speaking. I think we heard him utter two words to the Court when he went to be arraigned and waive his right to a speedy preliminary. Not nearly enough for me to form any opinion on his voice.

I am confident that LE asked DM whether the voice was male even if the PCA doesn't so state, whether the person she saw was male (even though I don't think the PCA specifically says that they asked her these things, it's common sense to assume they asked his apparent sex/gender, hair color, skin color, height, weight, build and anything else she could remember, because that's just standard LE practice everywhere).

IMO.

 

[al66pine]

eah, the traffic stop vid, although it's hard to hear him.

bryan kohberger traffic stop - Google Search

@Gemmie
Thanks for the link of IN. traffic stops. Seems his father did a lot of the talking. Very hard to hear BK.

Holy cow, the work LE does in those conditions! Even a relatively neutral encounter like that, so much noise, distraction, the vehicle traffic whizzing by at 60-80 mph, risk of a truck veering off the traffic lane onto the shoulder.

 

[10ofRods]

Yeah, the traffic stop vid, although it's hard to hear him.

bryan kohberger traffic stop - Google Search

Oh, that's right. I even tried to listen through headphones and was quite disappointed with the sound quality. I was left wondering if he typically keeps his eyes open that wide or if he was very startled/scared.

IMO.

 

[CSIDreamer]

If the killer came only to kill (or rape) one person and the plan went awry, then I hope LE will find a ton more evidence in the car.

If the suspect's plan was to go up to the third floor to enter Maddie's room and kill only her, while she was sleeping or at least in bed, then all the issues with lots of blood and pools of blood to avoid stepping in would have been mitigated.

I'm going somewhere with this. It seems to me that LE believes that BK arrived at the house somewhere after 4:01 am. He leaves somewhere around 4:20 am. If he knew he was going to be bloody after his crime, surely he would have taken measures to keep that blood from getting all over the driver's side of the car? Surely he didn't just jump into his car still wearing his kill suit.

Did he leave a plastic bag outside the car? How long do you all think it would take a man to strip off his gloves and don new ones, take off a coverall type garment, his shoes and socks, hat and mask; package those; strip off that set of gloves; put them in the bag; then don new ones (as he would be constantly getting contaminated from doing all this and would transfer to the steering wheel).

How long do you think that would take? I'm asking in part because now you've all got me wondering whether he did intend to kill just one person and, perhaps, to be dealing with less blood. If there are no footprints until he comes down to the second floor, it's likely due to the struggle with Xana that he ended up putting at least one foot into some blood.

If he truly was planning only to attack Maddie, things went very much awry for him. If Kaylee was awake and active during any part of this awful crime, then I would imagine he had at least some blood spatter on his upper body (so he either took that blood with him into his car, or he had a system of coveralls/clothing disposal). Did he also have a seat cover on the driver's side (now disposed of)?

Because surely he took his shoes off before getting in the car, in preparation for tossing them where ever he tossed them.

To me, it seems like a lot of glove management and discipline in following through with a plan, if this is what he did. He was out there near his car, doing all of this post-murder clean up (or else he definitely got blood inside his car, which I obviously hope is the case). I'm not optimistic about a steering wheel being a good place to find victim DNA, since it could be repeatedly cleaned. He didn't want to get blood on the outside of that trash bag, because it would transfer to the car (trunk or otherwise) when he tossed it in.

I hope the search warrants returned receipts for a now missing plastic bin. OTOH, a receipt for a Ka-Bar knife would likely be enough to convince a jury, if the ME testifies that a Ka-Bar was the likely weapon (or has actual proof that a Ka-Bar was used).

I am absolutely not convinced he wore coveralls, let alone a "kill suit". To *me* your scenario of basically a complete wardrobe change outside of his car in freezing temperatures doesn't match his high rate of speed exit. He was going fast enough to leave (presumably) those yaw marks we saw LE measuring. One action (wardrobe change) is methodical, the other (yaw marks) is not. JMO

If anything, I can imagine a plastic drop cloth ala Walmart being put over the seat. Beyond that, not so much of anything. JMO

 

[10ofRods]

I am absolutely not convinced he wore coveralls, let alone a "kill suit". To *me* your scenario of basically a complete wardrobe change outside of his car in freezing temperatures doesn't match his high rate of speed exit. He was going fast enough to leave (presumably) those yaw marks we saw LE measuring. One action (wardrobe change) is methodical, the other (yaw marks) is not. JMO

If anything, I can imagine a plastic drop cloth ala Walmart being put over the seat. Beyond that, not so much of anything. JMO

Thank you. I was hoping you'd say that.

And I hope you're right. The speed at which he left in his car says the same thing to me (that it seems unlikely he had time or mental ability to do all this wardrobe changing).

I think about this daily, as I know it takes a while to thoroughly test a car. I too think he left so swiftly that it seems unlikely he did a careful and quick wardrobe change.

Just removing the bloody gloves and putting them somewhere was about all he could manage. In which case, there was still some blood on the bottom of at least one shoe (probably very little), and some on his upper body (IMO of course, just guessing). Since he stops at Albertson's later that same day, I do wonder if he needed a few more supplies from the cleaning aisle and I hope like heck he needed at least some bandaids.

Special photography can pick up the scars from scratches for a few months after they occur (if it's not just the top layer of the dermis). I wonder if they've done that.

JMO.

 

[Gemmie]

Oh, that's right. I even tried to listen through headphones and was quite disappointed with the sound quality. I was left wondering if he typically keeps his eyes open that wide or if he was very startled/scared.

IMO.

Yeah, it was really bad sound quality on BKs part. His father was clearer because he was closer to the officer. Makes you wish dad had been doing the driving! Although, they likely wouldn't have been pulled over unless BK learned his bad driving habits from his dad. (I doubt that).

 

[Gemmie]

If the killer came only to kill (or rape) one person and the plan went awry, then I hope LE will find a ton more evidence in the car.

If the suspect's plan was to go up to the third floor to enter Maddie's room and kill only her, while she was sleeping or at least in bed, then all the issues with lots of blood and pools of blood to avoid stepping in would have been mitigated.

I'm going somewhere with this. It seems to me that LE believes that BK arrived at the house somewhere after 4:01 am. He leaves somewhere around 4:20 am. If he knew he was going to be bloody after his crime, surely he would have taken measures to keep that blood from getting all over the driver's side of the car? Surely he didn't just jump into his car still wearing his kill suit.

Did he leave a plastic bag outside the car? How long do you all think it would take a man to strip off his gloves and don new ones, take off a coverall type garment, his shoes and socks, hat and mask; package those; strip off that set of gloves; put them in the bag; then don new ones (as he would be constantly getting contaminated from doing all this and would transfer to the steering wheel).

How long do you think that would take? I'm asking in part because now you've all got me wondering whether he did intend to kill just one person and, perhaps, to be dealing with less blood. If there are no footprints until he comes down to the second floor, it's likely due to the struggle with Xana that he ended up putting at least one foot into some blood.

If he truly was planning only to attack Maddie, things went very much awry for him. If Kaylee was awake and active during any part of this awful crime, then I would imagine he had at least some blood spatter on his upper body (so he either took that blood with him into his car, or he had a system of coveralls/clothing disposal). Did he also have a seat cover on the driver's side (now disposed of)?

Because surely he took his shoes off before getting in the car, in preparation for tossing them where ever he tossed them.

To me, it seems like a lot of glove management and discipline in following through with a plan, if this is what he did. He was out there near his car, doing all of this post-murder clean up (or else he definitely got blood inside his car, which I obviously hope is the case). I'm not optimistic about a steering wheel being a good place to find victim DNA, since it could be repeatedly cleaned. He didn't want to get blood on the outside of that trash bag, because it would transfer to the car (trunk or otherwise) when he tossed it in.

I hope the search warrants returned receipts for a now missing plastic bin. OTOH, a receipt for a Ka-Bar knife would likely be enough to convince a jury, if the ME testifies that a Ka-Bar was the likely weapon (or has actual proof that a Ka-Bar was used).

I'm one that thinks he went there with the intent to kill just 1 (Maddie), and things just did not go as planned, unfortunately, starting with finding 2 in bed when he expected just one (MOO). But what I hadn't really thought about until your post is all the blood that there ended up being. He could have been fairly careful not to get blood on him after killing 1 person. But 4? And Xana put up one heck of a fight. Not to mention what LE calls (I think it was) a "red substance" since they don't outright call it blood unless they know 100% with certain. I'm calling the red substance blood so it's MOO that it's blood in the pic.

So perhaps he didn't really have much of a kill outfit because he hadn't thought things would have turned out as they did. Just something dark to stick to the shadows with. Maybe he didn't even cover his seats with plastic, because IMO, I don't think he planned on killing 4 which became a bloody mess which was NOT the plan. Maybe that's why he so thoroughly cleaned his car. He hadn't expected things to go the way they did nor have that much blood. What's good about that is all the forensics just might have found multiple things that ties him to the murders, and should never be in his car if he is innocent of these horrendous crimes. One can only hope.

Kohberger, who was pursuing a PhD in criminal justice at Washington State University at the time of the killings, "cleaned his car, inside and outside, not missing an inch," according to the law enforcement source.



Pic source: Idaho suspect may have left ‘calling card’ to claim murders, possibly killed before: experts

Car cleaning source: Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger cleaned car, was seen wearing surgical gloves, source says

 

[acutename]

If the killer came only to kill (or rape) one person and the plan went awry, then I hope LE will find a ton more evidence in the car.

If the suspect's plan was to go up to the third floor to enter Maddie's room and kill only her, while she was sleeping or at least in bed, then all the issues with lots of blood and pools of blood to avoid stepping in would have been mitigated.

I'm going somewhere with this. It seems to me that LE believes that BK arrived at the house somewhere after 4:01 am. He leaves somewhere around 4:20 am. If he knew he was going to be bloody after his crime, surely he would have taken measures to keep that blood from getting all over the driver's side of the car? Surely he didn't just jump into his car still wearing his kill suit.

Did he leave a plastic bag outside the car? How long do you all think it would take a man to strip off his gloves and don new ones, take off a coverall type garment, his shoes and socks, hat and mask; package those; strip off that set of gloves; put them in the bag; then don new ones (as he would be constantly getting contaminated from doing all this and would transfer to the steering wheel).

How long do you think that would take? I'm asking in part because now you've all got me wondering whether he did intend to kill just one person and, perhaps, to be dealing with less blood. If there are no footprints until he comes down to the second floor, it's likely due to the struggle with Xana that he ended up putting at least one foot into some blood.

If he truly was planning only to attack Maddie, things went very much awry for him. If Kaylee was awake and active during any part of this awful crime, then I would imagine he had at least some blood spatter on his upper body (so he either took that blood with him into his car, or he had a system of coveralls/clothing disposal). Did he also have a seat cover on the driver's side (now disposed of)?

Because surely he took his shoes off before getting in the car, in preparation for tossing them where ever he tossed them.

To me, it seems like a lot of glove management and discipline in following through with a plan, if this is what he did. He was out there near his car, doing all of this post-murder clean up (or else he definitely got blood inside his car, which I obviously hope is the case). I'm not optimistic about a steering wheel being a good place to find victim DNA, since it could be repeatedly cleaned. He didn't want to get blood on the outside of that trash bag, because it would transfer to the car (trunk or otherwise) when he tossed it in.

I hope the search warrants returned receipts for a now missing plastic bin. OTOH, a receipt for a Ka-Bar knife would likely be enough to convince a jury, if the ME testifies that a Ka-Bar was the likely weapon (or has actual proof that a Ka-Bar was used).

FWIW, I think that a person could strip off a coverall pretty quickly- as for multi glove changes, etc, not so much. IMO

 

[ktm44]

FWIW, I think that a person could strip off a coverall pretty quickly- as for multi glove changes, etc, not so much. IMO

That would depend on the fabric, fit and how much you don’t want what is on the outside touching anything under them.

 

[Boxer]

I am absolutely not convinced he wore coveralls, let alone a "kill suit". To *me* your scenario of basically a complete wardrobe change outside of his car in freezing temperatures doesn't match his high rate of speed exit. He was going fast enough to leave (presumably) those yaw marks we saw LE measuring. One action (wardrobe change) is methodical, the other (yaw marks) is not. JMO

If anything, I can imagine a plastic drop cloth ala Walmart being put over the seat. Beyond that, not so much of anything. JMO

MOO 90 seconds.

 

[whiterhino]

Thank you. I was hoping you'd say that.

And I hope you're right. The speed at which he left in his car says the same thing to me (that it seems unlikely he had time or mental ability to do all this wardrobe changing).

I think about this daily, as I know it takes a while to thoroughly test a car. I too think he left so swiftly that it seems unlikely he did a careful and quick wardrobe change.

Just removing the bloody gloves and putting them somewhere was about all he could manage. In which case, there was still some blood on the bottom of at least one shoe (probably very little), and some on his upper body (IMO of course, just guessing). Since he stops at Albertson's later that same day, I do wonder if he needed a few more supplies from the cleaning aisle and I hope like heck he needed at least some bandaids.

Special photography can pick up the scars from scratches for a few months after they occur (if it's not just the top layer of the dermis). I wonder if they've done that.

JMO.

BBM

He did leave the scene hastily. I don't think he'd have time to remove it.

It's hard to imagine someone killing 4 people without getting blood on themselves so it's easy to see why some may think BK wore something over his clothing. A coverall makes sense plus there's a receipt for a Dickies item from Walmart (there's also the list of other clothing items that were seized).

It's possible he just took the gloves off and put them in a pocket especially if he'd already gotten victim blood on his clothes. Not to mention the knife. He had to have used something to either clean it or keep it from touching the interior of the car.

I'm thinking he might have had the interior of the car prepared beforehand.

Do you mean scratches from victims, scratches from the knife or both? Hopefully both happened!

 

[Cindizzi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1645248346016153600

 

[Kdot112]

The 911 call being made at noon doesn't discredit DM, IMO. It just casts doubt on whether or not someone else entered the house. There's a gap of time unaccounted for and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there was initially inconsistency in time of death. MOO.

Unfortunately the defense will be able to make the noon call discredit her. It might not be right to do that but they will.

 

[Kdot112]

If the killer came only to kill (or rape) one person and the plan went awry, then I hope LE will find a ton more evidence in the car.

If the suspect's plan was to go up to the third floor to enter Maddie's room and kill only her, while she was sleeping or at least in bed, then all the issues with lots of blood and pools of blood to avoid stepping in would have been mitigated.

I'm going somewhere with this. It seems to me that LE believes that BK arrived at the house somewhere after 4:01 am. He leaves somewhere around 4:20 am. If he knew he was going to be bloody after his crime, surely he would have taken measures to keep that blood from getting all over the driver's side of the car? Surely he didn't just jump into his car still wearing his kill suit.

Did he leave a plastic bag outside the car? How long do you all think it would take a man to strip off his gloves and don new ones, take off a coverall type garment, his shoes and socks, hat and mask; package those; strip off that set of gloves; put them in the bag; then don new ones (as he would be constantly getting contaminated from doing all this and would transfer to the steering wheel).

How long do you think that would take? I'm asking in part because now you've all got me wondering whether he did intend to kill just one person and, perhaps, to be dealing with less blood. If there are no footprints until he comes down to the second floor, it's likely due to the struggle with Xana that he ended up putting at least one foot into some blood.

If he truly was planning only to attack Maddie, things went very much awry for him. If Kaylee was awake and active during any part of this awful crime, then I would imagine he had at least some blood spatter on his upper body (so he either took that blood with him into his car, or he had a system of coveralls/clothing disposal). Did he also have a seat cover on the driver's side (now disposed of)?

Because surely he took his shoes off before getting in the car, in preparation for tossing them where ever he tossed them.

To me, it seems like a lot of glove management and discipline in following through with a plan, if this is what he did. He was out there near his car, doing all of this post-murder clean up (or else he definitely got blood inside his car, which I obviously hope is the case). I'm not optimistic about a steering wheel being a good place to find victim DNA, since it could be repeatedly cleaned. He didn't want to get blood on the outside of that trash bag, because it would transfer to the car (trunk or otherwise) when he tossed it in.

I hope the search warrants returned receipts for a now missing plastic bin. OTOH, a receipt for a Ka-Bar knife would likely be enough to convince a jury, if the ME testifies that a Ka-Bar was the likely weapon (or has actual proof that a Ka-Bar was used).

It’s wild to think how cleanly he might have escaped if Maddie was upstairs alone.

 

[jjleroche]

It’s wild to think how cleanly he might have escaped if Maddie was upstairs alone.

If the killer came only to kill (or rape) one person and the plan went awry, then I hope LE will find a ton more evidence in the car.

If the suspect's plan was to go up to the third floor to enter Maddie's room and kill only her, while she was sleeping or at least in bed, then all the issues with lots of blood and pools of blood to avoid stepping in would have been mitigated.

I'm going somewhere with this. It seems to me that LE believes that BK arrived at the house somewhere after 4:01 am. He leaves somewhere around 4:20 am. If he knew he was going to be bloody after his crime, surely he would have taken measures to keep that blood from getting all over the driver's side of the car? Surely he didn't just jump into his car still wearing his kill suit.

Did he leave a plastic bag outside the car? How long do you all think it would take a man to strip off his gloves and don new ones, take off a coverall type garment, his shoes and socks, hat and mask; package those; strip off that set of gloves; put them in the bag; then don new ones (as he would be constantly getting contaminated from doing all this and would transfer to the steering wheel).

How long do you think that would take? I'm asking in part because now you've all got me wondering whether he did intend to kill just one person and, perhaps, to be dealing with less blood. If there are no footprints until he comes down to the second floor, it's likely due to the struggle with Xana that he ended up putting at least one foot into some blood.

If he truly was planning only to attack Maddie, things went very much awry for him. If Kaylee was awake and active during any part of this awful crime, then I would imagine he had at least some blood spatter on his upper body (so he either took that blood with him into his car, or he had a system of coveralls/clothing disposal). Did he also have a seat cover on the driver's side (now disposed of)?

Because surely he took his shoes off before getting in the car, in preparation for tossing them where ever he tossed them.

To me, it seems like a lot of glove management and discipline in following through with a plan, if this is what he did. He was out there near his car, doing all of this post-murder clean up (or else he definitely got blood inside his car, which I obviously hope is the case). I'm not optimistic about a steering wheel being a good place to find victim DNA, since it could be repeatedly cleaned. He didn't want to get blood on the outside of that trash bag, because it would transfer to the car (trunk or otherwise) when he tossed it in.

I hope the search warrants returned receipts for a now missing plastic bin. OTOH, a receipt for a Ka-Bar knife would likely be enough to convince a jury, if the ME testifies that a Ka-Bar was the likely weapon (or has actual proof that a Ka-Bar was used).

I think if the perpetrator had mentally rehearsed the whole post-murder self-clean-up as you've detailed in your post, 10 of Rods, I think it COULD be done in 5 minutes max. Discipline, as you've mentioned, would be absolutely key. If the perp was a very calm individual, not easily fazed, this could work. I don't get the sense however, that BK is such a person. IMO he may even be a bit of a bumbler, based on other things which he did, such as bringing his phone/using his own car. IMO he doesn't have the finesse to stay cool and not be distracted by the unexpected. IMO there had been a lot of thought/fantasizing about committing the murder(s), but not so much concerning post-murder cleanup. IMO there wasn't a particularly elaborate post-murder kit - plastic dropsheet for the car's interior, and one for the trunk - maybe a couple of pairs of nitrile gloves, so he could whip one pair off with the other, and garbage bag(s).

If he was a first-time murderer, he may not have been expecting quite so much blood, along with the associated splatter and other gruesome sights, not to mention the possibility of a resident attacking him. IMO it's indeed quite possible that he intended to kill just one person, but the fact that there were four cars in the driveway puzzles me if this were so.

 

[Kdot112]

I think if the perpetrator had mentally rehearsed the whole post-murder self-clean-up as you've detailed in your post, 10 of Rods, I think it COULD be done in 5 minutes max. Discipline, as you've mentioned, would be absolutely key. If the perp was a very calm individual, not easily fazed, this could work. I don't get the sense however, that BK is such a person. IMO he may even be a bit of a bumbler, based on other things which he did, such as bringing his phone/using his own car. IMO he doesn't have the finesse to stay cool and not be distracted by the unexpected. IMO there had been a lot of thought/fantasizing about committing the murder(s), but not so much concerning post-murder cleanup. IMO there wasn't a particularly elaborate post-murder kit - plastic dropsheet for the car's interior, and one for the trunk - maybe a couple of pairs of nitrile gloves, so he could whip one pair off with the other, and garbage bag(s).

If he was a first-time murderer, he may not have been expecting quite so much blood, along with the associated splatter and other gruesome sights, not to mention the possibility of a resident attacking him. IMO it's indeed quite possible that he intended to kill just one person, but the fact that there were four cars in the driveway puzzles me if this were so.

I don’t think he wanted to run into multiple people. It’s kind of apparent since he seemed to pinpoint a room to target, left a witness.

I think he was fixated on doing the deed and was waiting on the house to have a slow night. So even with all the cars in the driveway this was a slow night . . For this house.

With that being said, I believe he focused most of his attention on carrying out the attack but not the aftermath.

 

[Boxer]

Unfortunately the defense will be able to make the noon call discredit her. It might not be right to do that but they will.

Discredit her? Sleeping till noon on Sunday is a college thing.

 

[girlhasnoname]

MOO 90 seconds.

Agreed, set the timer on your phone for 90 seconds, it's longer than we realize. Amazed at how very much can be accomplished when moving quickly.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I don’t think he wanted to run into multiple people. It’s kind of apparent since he seemed to pinpoint a room to target, left a witness.

I think he was fixated on doing the deed and was waiting on the house to have a slow night. So even with all the cars in the driveway this was a slow night . . For this house.

With that being said, I believe he focused most of his attention on carrying out the attack but not the aftermath.

I go back and forth with this theory, but you brought up some good points.