4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #77

[U.N. Known]

The fact that tabloids are stalking her outside her home is insane and tragic.

And par for the course. That's what they do and have been allowed to do so for decades. I often wonder how it's legal. I don't blame anyone for the attempt to get information, but when they begin stalking people or become relentless, it's too much.

 

[U.N. Known]

Is it weird that he could get a masters in criminology without doing the undergrad coursework?

My masters is completely unrelated to my bachelors. However, the university did manage to find courses in my undergrad that they could work with.

 

[NCWatcher]

Is it weird that he could get a masters in criminology without doing the undergrad coursework?

No. That particular Psyc degree does have a forensic track so he might have taken coursework in CJ pre-masters. Plus, the DeSales catalog says for admission to the masters

Earn a Masters in Criminal Justice from DeSales University

a bachelor's degree (any subject) is required & if from US, must be from a regionally accredited university, undergrad GPA of 3.0 or higher, potential for grad work with graduate-level writing skills, and "background or interest in the field of criminal justice." No degree or coursework in CRJ required. Honestly lots of masters programs don't require an undergrad degree in the same area. Sometimes "leveling" coursework is required but not always as was the case here.
JMO

 

[Sundog]

I know people don't understand why she wouldn't have immediately called 911 or thought there was an emergency, but everyone should remember, she is a young college girl, woken up out of a deep sleep. She had no reason to think there was a mass murderer in the house. She probably thought he was just a friend of one of the victims, maybe a booty call or something completely harmless. She is not a seasoned crime follower like us one WS who would think something nefarious was happening.

<snipped for focus>

If that is the case, which it will could have been, that at trial it might sound something like this:

- DM heard something and looked out of her door and saw a masked person, dressed in black, with the description she provided. At the moment she saw the masked person, she froze in fear as she didn't expect to see a stranger in the house at 4 a.m. that morning.

- But once she thought about it, she figured it was maybe someone there who was visiting with one of her roommates, so she locked her door and went to sleep.

- The defense would ask if this was normal, for there to be people she didn't know going in and out of the house at 4 a.m., particularly on the weekend, and if this was a normal occurence, and that is why she just went back to bed without any concerns, after her initial response.

So the defense would thereby be normalizing the environment at the King Road house at 4 am on weekends, with people coming and going, including masked men dressed in black.

Just some thoughts on how this could play out at trial.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

How exactly? We know of no other POI or suspect at this point. Perhaps defense will introduce one? Forensics would have, IMO, addressed any potential crime scene contamination by those who were present in the house. Defense can look at the gap between 4.30am and 11.50am and perhaps try to suggest that someone, apart from the roommates and friends, came in and committed the murders at say between 5am and whatever time the roommates woke up/arose/realised that something was wrong but they will need more than conjecture for that. If we are talking contamination, they will need some evidence of unknown dna for starters at the crime scenes that can be shown to have been deposited there after 4.30am and before the roommates arose/left rooms or whatever.MOO. My point is that questioning the timing of 911 so as to discredit DM's character in some way and from there her reliability would not seem to go anywhere in terms of casting doubt on this suspect. It is like a distraction tactic. If on cross, the defense tries to go that specific way with a line of questioning, I believe prosecution will object and this wil lbe sustained. Because...to what purpose and relevance? MOO

The 911 call being made at noon doesn't discredit DM, IMO. It just casts doubt on whether or not someone else entered the house. There's a gap of time unaccounted for and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there was initially inconsistency in time of death. MOO.

 

[Sundog]

Is it weird that he could get a masters in criminology without doing the undergrad coursework?

Often, professional master's degrees are more flexible regarding pre-requisites as part of the admissions requirement. For example, MBA degrees, MSW degrees, and Masters degrees in Criminal Justice. An appicant might have a leg up, so to speak, if he or she chose some electives in the field, but they are often not a requirement. If a person does have an undergrad degree in the same field, then often they will do an accelerated masters degree program.

Professional degrees usually work differently than purely academic degrees in terms of admissions and pre-requisites.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I don’t think E and X would have been killed unless they were part of the plan. Seems unlikely they saw him so wouldn’t be witnesses. LE had a theory early on that maybe the house was targeted.I sure hope we get answers one day.

Why does it seem unlikely they would have seen him? We know that Xana was awake as of 4:12 am, when BK was in the house, per the PCA. IMO, it's very likely they saw or heard him.

 

[Gemmie]

Why does it seem unlikely they would have seen him? We know that Xana was awake as of 4:12 am, when BK was in the house, per the PCA. IMO, it's very likely they saw or heard him.

Since D.M. heard what she thought was partying or someone playing with the dog, Xana and/or Ethan likely heard it too since Xana was awake (and I'm thinking Ethan was awake too). Xana knew it wasn't her that D.M. was telling to tone it down because she was trying to sleep, because she had to know the noises heard weren't coming from her or Ethan, so it had to be from upstairs. Maybe she opened the door to listen (if it was closed and/or she wasn't sitting in the LR eating, or making her way to/from the kitchen).

It's MOO that she came face-to-face with BK as I really doubt he opened a closed door to kill whoever was in that room. I think Maddie was likely the only intended victim, Kaylee only because she was sharing her bed which wasn't part of The Plan, and X & E simply because they saw him so they had to go too.

D.M. got extremely lucky because it's my belief he came for 1, ended up killing 4, and wanted the heck OUT of there, ASAP! He was likely concentrating on getting out of the house, and/or what he had just done that preoccupied his thoughts, which was what saved D.M.

All MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Posts suggesting/discussing LE influencing a witness or timing of witness interviews has been removed as such speculation is not based on any known fact.

Also, please don't Report a post and then go on to respond to it on the thread. This just results in Moderators having to review and remove more and more posts/responses.

 

[iamshadow21]

Since D.M. heard what she thought was partying or someone playing with the dog, Xana and/or Ethan likely heard it too since Xana was awake (and I'm thinking Ethan was awake too). Xana knew it wasn't her that D.M. was telling to tone it down because she was trying to sleep, because she had to know the noises heard weren't coming from her or Ethan, so it had to be from upstairs. Maybe she opened the door to listen (if it was closed and/or she wasn't sitting in the LR eating, or making her way to/from the kitchen).

It's MOO that she came face-to-face with BK as I really doubt he opened a closed door to kill whoever was in that room. I think Maddie was likely the only intended victim, Kaylee only because she was sharing her bed which wasn't part of The Plan, and X & E simply because they saw him so they had to go too.

D.M. got extremely lucky because it's my belief he came for 1, ended up killing 4, and wanted the heck OUT of there, ASAP! He was likely concentrating on getting out of the house, and/or what he had just done that preoccupied his thoughts, which was what saved D.M.

All MOO

Maddie's room was directly above D's. I think it's highly likely that the thumpings she heard that she thought were dog playing noises would have come most loudly through her ceiling, rather than down the stairs.

Xana's room was not only on the other side of the middle floor, but in the front half of the home, which was essentially a separate building due to the two phases of construction in the history of the home, with nothing above her room but roof. Her door was also not in a straight line from the single step join and the stairs to the top floor, but around a corner and down essentially a little hallway created by the bathroom and the halfwall surrounding the stairs down to the bottom floor. I'm not saying she wouldn't have heard a noise from the top floor from her room, but it would have likely had to be VERY loud, louder than something that would have seemed like normal horseplay level sound from D's room.

Very much MOO

 

[CSIDreamer]

Since D.M. heard what she thought was partying or someone playing with the dog, Xana and/or Ethan likely heard it too since Xana was awake (and I'm thinking Ethan was awake too). Xana knew it wasn't her that D.M. was telling to tone it down because she was trying to sleep, because she had to know the noises heard weren't coming from her or Ethan, so it had to be from upstairs. Maybe she opened the door to listen (if it was closed and/or she wasn't sitting in the LR eating, or making her way to/from the kitchen).

It's MOO that she came face-to-face with BK as I really doubt he opened a closed door to kill whoever was in that room. I think Maddie was likely the only intended victim, Kaylee only because she was sharing her bed which wasn't part of The Plan, and X & E simply because they saw him so they had to go too.

D.M. got extremely lucky because it's my belief he came for 1, ended up killing 4, and wanted the heck OUT of there, ASAP! He was likely concentrating on getting out of the house, and/or what he had just done that preoccupied his thoughts, which was what saved D.M.

All MOO

My best guess, bouncing off yours, is Xana was returning to her room from the kitchen. The only way Kohberger would have just happened to see her was if she was completely out of her room and past the bathroom. Otherwise, he knew where her room was and intentionally headed there. JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN WARNING:

For those members who, for whatever reasons, are choosing to ignore this previous instruction, it won't be said again. Members will simply find themselves on a 1 week Time Out.

ADMIN NOTE:

This post lands at random.

DM is a victim in this matter and a witness. Questioning her credibility or potential testimony is not victim friendly.

Could we please move on from speculation that DM perhaps did not really see what she saw.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Could it be that BK was aware that DD was on their way to make a delivery to the house? Had he planned to use that as a distraction to gain entry?
I'm curious because:
BK was driving around a bit before he actually entered the house, almost as if he were waiting for something. . .
The DD's delivery was so curiously close to the BK's arrival. . .
The mysterious search warrants for DD drivers' information. . .
The recently reported policy change in security for DD drivers. . .
and because I'm trying to think outside of the box, lol.

 

[iamshadow21]

Could it be that BK was aware that DD was on their way to make a delivery to the house? Had he planned to use that as a distraction to gain entry?
I'm curious because:
BK was driving around a bit before he actually entered the house, almost as if he were waiting for something. . .
The DD's delivery was so curiously close to the BK's arrival. . .
The mysterious search warrants for DD drivers' information. . .
The recently reported policy change in security for DD drivers. . .
and because I'm trying to think outside of the box, lol.

Someone who works in tech pretty much nixed this a thread back. Basically, what they said was that companies like DoorDash hire the very best and pay them lots of money to make sure random people can't just walk into their systems and exploit their databases to get either company, driver, or user information.

But I am not said WS member. I am trying to remember who it was. EDIT: It was @schooling , and the conversation was happening around here:

4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 75

MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Could it be that BK was aware that DD was on their way to make a delivery to the house? Had he planned to use that as a distraction to gain entry?
I'm curious because:
BK was driving around a bit before he actually entered the house, almost as if he were waiting for something. . .
The DD's delivery was so curiously close to the BK's arrival. . .
The mysterious search warrants for DD drivers' information. . .
The recently reported policy change in security for DD drivers. . .
and because I'm trying to think outside of the box, lol.

IMO, this is definitely a possibility. I think if this were the case, he wanted a distraction as he entered the home. My original thinking was that he was waiting for the DD driver to leave the food on the doorstep because he planned to enter the home as whoever opened the door to pick it up, but that goes out the window if he really did enter through the slider (was that confirmed?).

By the way, did we ever get confirmation on whether the DD driver handed the food to Xana or left it there?

The DD driver is very lucky he wasn't another victim, IMO.

MOO.

 

[Boxer]

She Before

My best guess, bouncing off yours, is Xana was returning to her room from the kitchen. The only way Kohberger would have just happened to see her was if she was completely out of her room and past the bathroom. Otherwise, he knew where her room was and intentionally headed there. JMO

Or maybe saw the light thought that is where voice came from,

MOO if DM opened her door 5 inches or so, and called out from inside her door jamb, her voice would orient out her door toward the Xana's room and MOO bounce off the wall that is the backside of the bathroom and then up the stairs.
The room light and bounced voice would lead a person on the upstairs landing to possibly think the voice and the light were the from the same point of origin, and the source of interference with his exit, or was thrilled was so easy to kill people and just continued on to the next victims.

 

[10ofRods]

That may be what happened but there's no way to know that without asking. And no, I don't think she killed her housemates just like I didn't think she deliberately tampered with the scene. We have wondered if the footprint cited in the PCA was the only one though.

<modsnip>
JMO

Some of you have wondered about whether there were other footprints. I haven't. There's no way to have just one latent footprint and no others.

As far as we know, only one footprint was made after the person making it stepped into some kind of biological protein. I thought of only one (blood) but someone else here said that BK could have peed his pants. That's true, I suppose.

I don't for a minute believe they didn't luminol that place and find other prints - they just needed a better reagent to find that latent print outside DM's door (and I wouldn't be surprised if they turned up at least another partial print with the Amido black).

At any rate, I trust LE to know what to do with a crime scene in a house with multiple occupants. And I have faith that there's more than one footprint, as the murderer did not levitate and put only one foot down, one time. Impossible.

Snipped to avoid re-starting a discussion, but am here to support the victims of this crime.

IMO.

 

[al66pine]

"It's ok, I'm here to help."

But Xana was up at 4 am... I think she heard something...
having NO IDEA what was happening, with a knife and then went after X (BK was reported saying "It ok, I'm here to help).... All MOO

snipped for focus @girlhasnoname

Note. Not questioning DM's credibility or potential testimony, not
speculating about what she saw.
Am questioning what PCA (can't find ATM) said and/or OP's source re Voice ID.

I recall the PCA stated DM told LE she heard someone say "It's ok, I'm here to help."

Did PCA state DM IDENTIFIED THE VOICE as BK's? (can't find ATM)

In early interviews w DM, say, before BK hit LE's radar, seems DM could have said, I heard a MALE VOICE saying, "It's ok..."
And/or DM may have said voice did not sound like Ethan (or Tom, Dick or Harry, known visitors to 1122).
imo

BTW, any vid clip w BK SPEAKING? Anyone? TiA.

 

[Gemmie]

"It's ok, I'm here to help."

snipped for focus @girlhasnoname

Note. Not questioning DM's credibility or potential testimony, not
speculating about what she saw.
Am questioning what PCA (can't find ATM) said and/or OP's source re Voice ID.

I recall the PCA stated DM told LE she heard someone say "It's ok, I'm here to help."

Did PCA state DM IDENTIFIED THE VOICE as BK's? (can't find ATM)

In early interviews w DM, say, before BK hit LE's radar, seems DM could have said, I heard a MALE VOICE saying, "It's ok..."
And/or DM may have said voice did not sound like Ethan (or Tom, Dick or Harry, known visitors to 1122).
imo

BTW, any vid clip w BK SPEAKING? Anyone? TiA.

Yeah, the traffic stop vid, although it's hard to hear him.

bryan kohberger traffic stop - Google Search

 

[10ofRods]

If the killer came only to kill (or rape) one person and the plan went awry, then I hope LE will find a ton more evidence in the car.

If the suspect's plan was to go up to the third floor to enter Maddie's room and kill only her, while she was sleeping or at least in bed, then all the issues with lots of blood and pools of blood to avoid stepping in would have been mitigated.

I'm going somewhere with this. It seems to me that LE believes that BK arrived at the house somewhere after 4:01 am. He leaves somewhere around 4:20 am. If he knew he was going to be bloody after his crime, surely he would have taken measures to keep that blood from getting all over the driver's side of the car? Surely he didn't just jump into his car still wearing his kill suit.

Did he leave a plastic bag outside the car? How long do you all think it would take a man to strip off his gloves and don new ones, take off a coverall type garment, his shoes and socks, hat and mask; package those; strip off that set of gloves; put them in the bag; then don new ones (as he would be constantly getting contaminated from doing all this and would transfer to the steering wheel).

How long do you think that would take? I'm asking in part because now you've all got me wondering whether he did intend to kill just one person and, perhaps, to be dealing with less blood. If there are no footprints until he comes down to the second floor, it's likely due to the struggle with Xana that he ended up putting at least one foot into some blood.

If he truly was planning only to attack Maddie, things went very much awry for him. If Kaylee was awake and active during any part of this awful crime, then I would imagine he had at least some blood spatter on his upper body (so he either took that blood with him into his car, or he had a system of coveralls/clothing disposal). Did he also have a seat cover on the driver's side (now disposed of)?

Because surely he took his shoes off before getting in the car, in preparation for tossing them where ever he tossed them.

To me, it seems like a lot of glove management and discipline in following through with a plan, if this is what he did. He was out there near his car, doing all of this post-murder clean up (or else he definitely got blood inside his car, which I obviously hope is the case). I'm not optimistic about a steering wheel being a good place to find victim DNA, since it could be repeatedly cleaned. He didn't want to get blood on the outside of that trash bag, because it would transfer to the car (trunk or otherwise) when he tossed it in.

I hope the search warrants returned receipts for a now missing plastic bin. OTOH, a receipt for a Ka-Bar knife would likely be enough to convince a jury, if the ME testifies that a Ka-Bar was the likely weapon (or has actual proof that a Ka-Bar was used).