4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #77

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I doubt that any of those friends killed the four housemates, myself. Their DNA would have been in the house anyway. And the footprints were still discovered with luminal and other means, and I"m sure the visitors had their shoes and everything else forensic about them collected in some form. Super easy to eliminate them from the suspect pool, IMO, although I'm sure they were all thoroughly interrogated and felt like suspects at the time.

It's my impression that DM couldn't get a response from any of the housemates on the second and third floors, and that the door to Xana's room was blocked somehow. She was hoping they might still wake up and didn't feel she should try to break in, IMO. So she called friends of Xana and Ethan's, IMO. And probably someone for her own support, as surely everyone's spirits had to have plummeted.

From memory. JMO.
That may be what happened but there's no way to know that without asking. And no, I don't think she killed her housemates just like I didn't think she deliberately tampered with the scene. We have wondered if the footprint cited in the PCA was the only one though.

<modsnip>
JMO
 
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ADMIN NOTE:

This post lands at random.

DM is a victim in this matter and a witness. Questioning her credibility or potential testimony is not victim friendly.

Could we please move on from speculation that DM perhaps did not really see what she saw.

Maybe no one read this?

"DM is a victim in this matter and a witness. Questioning her credibility or potential testimony is not victim friendly."
 
Steve Goncalves, the father of Kaylee, told TODAY of the two surviving roommates:

“You got to remember these two girls were so upset that when they went outside after seeing this … one passed out. And the other one was so hyperventilating that the message wasn’t clear enough for the operator.”


 
Steve Goncalves, the father of Kaylee, told TODAY of the two surviving roommates:

“You got to remember these two girls were so upset that when they went outside after seeing this … one passed out. And the other one was so hyperventilating that the message wasn’t clear enough for the operator.”


SG seems to imply the girls knew their friends were deceased. That they saw the crime scene.
 
Steve Goncalves, the father of Kaylee, told TODAY of the two surviving roommates:

“You got to remember these two girls were so upset that when they went outside after seeing this … one passed out. And the other one was so hyperventilating that the message wasn’t clear enough for the operator.”


And who could blame them. I remember getting completely hysterical at that same age when I hit a cat that dashed out of a hedge under the wheels of my car. I wouldn't have been able to make sense to 911 or anyone else in the state I was in immediately afterward. Never mind the state I'm sure they were in.

I can't imagine the emotional damage they have experienced from knowing they slept the night in a house with 4 homicide victims. IMO, the "delay" only seems so significant because we know at least one roommate heard *something* and we know what the outcome was. But, based on what we know, there was no blood curdling screaming, or anything that led her to believe anyone was being murdered. I'm pretty confident that the Prosecution can set the stage properly to neutralize whatever the Defense tries to make out of it.
 
And who could blame them. I remember getting completely hysterical at that same age when I hit a cat that dashed out of a hedge under the wheels of my car. I wouldn't have been able to make sense to 911 or anyone else in the state I was in immediately afterward. Never mind the state I'm sure they were in.

I can't imagine the emotional damage they have experienced from knowing they slept the night in a house with 4 homicide victims. IMO, the "delay" only seems so significant because we know at least one roommate heard *something* and we know what the outcome was. But, based on what we know, there was no blood curdling screaming, or anything that led her to believe anyone was being murdered. I'm pretty confident that the Prosecution can set the stage properly to neutralize whatever the Defense tries to make out of it.

IMO, there is zero doubt to me that DM and BF were traumatized and I said very early on (I think thread one), back when we didn't know DM saw BK and thought they slept through the incident, that even if they didn't sleep through it, trauma explains their not calling 911. I believe I even said I could see a scenario in which DM and BF heard something and hid together because they were terrified and I totally understand that because I get what trauma does to the mind and to the body. I still feel that way. But I disagree that the 911 call is only significant now. I think people were talking about it way before the PCA. If anything, the PCA helped people understand more. I don't blame DM or BF at all for not calling 911 in the middle of the night. But some of us are thinking of how it's going to be framed and I think it's very optimistic to think that no one will question the circumstances. The jury is made up of 12 ordinary human beings, after all. The defense's job is to trigger doubt in at least one of them.

MOO.
 
I think what DM told LE she saw (the black clad figure) is figuratively in LE/the prosecution's rear view mirror, and the evidence they have gathered since that time, regardless of the level of piggybacking on what she said, blows away any and all quandaries about DM's state of mind.

I don't think it matters what she had for dinner, had to drink, or if she got high that night. It was the middle of the night, she was sleeping, and she was woken up by noises that caused her to open her bedroom door several times and basically tell her housemates their partying was too loud and she was trying to sleep.

Besides, it wasn't just her statement that was the only initial "lead" for LE to follow that led to BK. There was another lead on the white sedan seen on video in their neighborhood that night around the time of the murders, and he owns one (with no front license plate PA-style) and Pullman PD saw it outside his apartment, and one thing led to another. Per the PCA:

"The combination of D.M.'s statements to law enforcement, reviews of forensic downloads of records from B.F. and D.M.'s phone, and video of a suspect video [I think this is a typo and s/b sic "vehicle"] as described below leads investigators to believe the homicides occurred between 4:00 a.m. and 4:25 am."

I'll leave the bushy eyebrows descriptor off to the side because I don't think it was that critical in LE saying "hey, could this be the guy driving a white sedan in their neighborhood that night/early am". When LE looked up his vehicle license plate and then who it was registered to and looked at his driver's license, they discovered he is a white male, with approximate height and weight fitting within the parameters DM described, and his address put him living within 15 minutes of the crime scene. That would be a great big hhhhmmmmmm to me if I were the LEO who first looked him up.

As far as whether the man clad in black "saw her" looking out her bedroom door when she "saw him", I have always been certain he did see her and did know she was there -- how could he not have heard her yelling for them to be quiet and known she was there -- of course he did, imo.

And he could tell by what she said when she called out to them to be quiet that she didn't realize what was happening, so he deemed her not a risk to interfering or calling 911 because she had clearly misunderstood the situation, to his great advantage. Also, I think he had done what he came there to do at that point, and neither DM or BF were of interest to him, so he walked on by her and out the door, as per the PCA:

"The male walked towards the back sliding glass door. D.M. locked herself in room after seeing the male. D.M. did not state that she recognized the male. This leads investigators to believe that the murderer left the scene.".

All MOO
 
As far as whether the man clad in black "saw her" looking out her bedroom door when she "saw him", I have always been certain he did see her and did know she was there -- how could he not have heard her yelling for them to be quiet and known she was there -- of course he did, imo.

Snipped for focus.

Or, he heard a female voice yelling up to the third floor for them to be quiet, he came down and thought it was Xana.

I don't believe he would have left a witness alive.

MOO.
 
Speaking of "hot prowling", now there's a "smoking license" ! Sounds like a "match" made in heaven ! ;)

DM cites NN as a source, so... ignore if you don't think they're worth their "salt", or if you've read already or only want to consider "just the facts, ma'am":

'A smoking license': ID connected to Idaho murder victim found in Bryan Kohberger's car​

Story by Helena Kelly For Dailymail.Com
4/8/2023

"An ID connected to the murdered University of Idaho students was uncovered in suspected killer Bryan Kohberger's car amid reports he may have been cyberstalking one of the victims.
... ...
Sources have now told News Nation they belonged to somebody who lived in the Moscow residence but a gag order on the trial has stopped police from confirming any details about the cards. "

'A smoking license': ID connected to Idaho murder victim found in Bryan Kohberger's car
 
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Snipped for focus.

Or, he heard a female voice yelling up to the third floor for them to be quiet, he came down and thought it was Xana.

I don't believe he would have left a witness alive.

MOO.
DM could have peeked out her door and said something when the killer was right around the corner on the 2nd floor stabbing Ethan & Xana.

So he could have been aware she was right there, and heard her door open and close, and whatever she may have said.

I believe he intended to kill Kaylee, Maddie was "right there" with her so she was killed, Ethan heard something concerning (not like partying) and went to start going upstairs and check and confronted the killer as he came down the stairs so he was killed, and Xana was right there in the room with Ethan and knew he left her bedroom due to the noises so she was killed.

DM did not confront him and was not concerned about the noise being anything but late night partying and was not his target, so he didn't need to kill her. Plus, he was "clad in black" with the only part of his person showing above the black mask, plus it was dark, so he wasn't worried about her seeing him and being able to identify him so much, and he wanted someone to alert the authorities, so a surviving housemate would do the trick, imo.

MOO
 
<snipped for focus>

As far as whether the man clad in black "saw her" looking out her bedroom door when she "saw him", I have always been certain he did see her and did know she was there -- how could he not have heard her yelling for them to be quiet and known she was there -- of course he did, imo.

And he could tell by what she said when she called out to them to be quiet that she didn't realize what was happening, so he deemed her not a risk to interfering or calling 911 because she had clearly misunderstood the situation, to his great advantage. Also, I think he had done what he came there to do at that point, and neither DM or BF were of interest to him, so he walked on by her and out the door, as per the PCA:
DM allegedly yelling for quiet came from one of Newsnation's anonymous sources, so I'm reserving judgment the accuracy of that until I see it confirmed elsewhere. MOOooo

 
DM allegedly yelling for quiet came from one of Newsnation's anonymous sources, so I'm reserving judgment the accuracy of that until I see it confirmed elsewhere. MOOooo

Yes, thanks for pointing that out, unconfirmed sources about DM calling out. I should have added some caveats about that to my first post since I knew that, but too late to edit. My second post does caveat that with "So he could have been aware she was right there, and heard her door open and close, and whatever she may have said." jmo
 
DM could have peeked out her door and said something when the killer was right around the corner on the 2nd floor stabbing Ethan & Xana.

So he could have been aware she was right there, and heard her door open and close, and whatever she may have said.

Snipped for focus.

I understand that could have happened. But I don't believe it did. IMO, he had no reason to kill Xana and Ethan and the fact that he did makes me think he wouldn't leave a witness alive. Therefore, I don't think he saw or heard DM.

MOO.
 
Snipped for focus.

I understand that could have happened. But I don't believe it did. IMO, he had no reason to kill Xana and Ethan and the fact that he did makes me think he wouldn't leave a witness alive. Therefore, I don't think he saw or heard DM.

MOO.
You're right, @BeginnerSleuther , I hear you.

Just like "everything" in terms of BK's alleged motive(s), it remains to be seen.

I still would bet 'dollars to donuts' this was a quadruple murder for a reason.

MOO.
 
So far as we know now, BK did not earn an undergraduate degree in CJ as the above link suggests. So he likely didn't take any of the listed undergrad CJ courses and may not have had an idea of expected performance at the undergrad level in that discipline. His undergrad degree was in Psychology. All kinds of things have been said about his academic background but I finally found some documentation his undergrad degree is in Psychology here: DeSales graduation, spring 2020 | Times News Online

It's been pretty impossible to find the 2020 commencement progrm-- virtual because of COVID. But the above listing does say he earned the BS in Psychology in 2020 *advertiser censored* laude. He then earned the CJ MA 2 years later and plenty of documentation/video exists for that graduation ceremony.
JMO
 
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