4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #77

[jepop]

Someone else left them, DD or one of the roommates?

oh wait, they're on the road? I thought they were in the parking lot out front of 1122. Well if on the road, they could have been left by the elantra on the way out? maybe?!

ETA: I never read up on the tire marks reported in the press. I always assumed (wrongly) that they were in the parking lot of 1122 (never verified it personally which is very unwise). If onthe road then could have been left by the elantra, by DD, someone else/a resident? Did LE ever release anything about them? They aren't evidence that we know of at this point right?

MOO

ETA: 2.Hard to see from the photos in the article but could be when elantra attempted its turn/park in front of 1122 per PCA, could be DD backing out of 1122 parking lot.

 

[jepop]

DBM

 

[gliving]

oh wait, they're on the road? I thought they were in the parking lot out front of 1122. Well if on the road, they could have been left by the elantra on the way out? maybe?!

ETA: I never read up on the tire marks reported in the press. I always assumed (wrongly) that they were in the parking lot of 1122 (never verified it personally which is very unwise). If onthe road then could have been left by the elantra, by DD, someone else/a resident? Did LE ever release anything about them? They aren't evidence that we know of at this point right?

MOO

I'll assume the tire marks were entered as evidence.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1594055435556122625

 

[maconrich]

4:04 enters area. Turns around twice the heads into Queen Rd.
MOO 4:07 leaves his parked car.

MOO moving quickly but cautiously down the hill from Queen to the slider 30 seconds.
Wait at slider to hear whats happening in house 30-60 seconds.
Cautiously entering - possibly through the window if unlocked next to the slider. Proceeding quietly upstairs, 30 seconds. Enter sleeping girls room and proceed to kill 120-180 seconds.
Hears yelling from downstairs to be quiet, startled turns back and leaves sheath, creeps to landing sees light from Xana's room or try he bathroom thinks that is where sound is from 30 seconds.
Goes assumed sound source proceeds to quickly killXana and Ethan 120-180 seconds.
Leaves from Xana's room to his car 30 seconds.
9 minutes.

4:20 Elantra speeds away



MOO 4:07-4:20 =13 minutes.

Yes. But the time line gives little to no room for surprises, or unplanned or unexpected actions or reactions. Things had to have gone almost perfectly. I'm not sure what the odds of that happening are, but it's part of the reason I think the time line is too tight and would do better if it had a little wiggle room. But it does make me believe that he knew the house, and at the very least knew how to get from point A to point B (and to point C unless he followed or watched Xana or Ethan go to their room). Like I said, I can see it as do-able but perhaps not practical. And I don't think that would detract from the evidence or the presentation of it. After all I don't think we're supposed to believe the killer had super powers - better to think of him as a man: a man who made human mistakes (assuming that he did -- and I am assuming he did).

Edited to add: I'm honestly not trying to be difficult or obtuse, and I do understand what you're saying.

 

[jepop]

I'll assume the tire marks were entered as evidence.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1594055435556122625

In that case, could be elantra's attempt at turn/park after entering Queen for the last time or DD or a resident. Investigators will be able to match with a vehicle. MOO

 

[gliving]

To be fair, in the video, it looks like the officers went down a few different ways -- some easier than others. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if others did the same. They still had the advantage of the daylight and being able to stand in the parking lot and the road beside the house and see ways down that didn't look as challenging. The killer could have done the same, even if it would have been risky. Or he simply spent enough time observing (at night) and with a little trial and error found the path he'd take. And once he did, I'm inclined to believe he practiced going up and down until he was completely comfortable doing so.
With where he parked, I think the tight time line in the PCA comes into play as much as the route he walked. - Also taking into consideration that he needed to park somwhere close but not overly obvious (to anyone passing by etc). IMHO it seems like if he came down thru the woods, he most likely parked in the parking lot above the house. If he came in from the front he could have parked along the side road, or up in the top parking lot. As crowded as the parking in front of the house was, it seems like a less likely choice, but who knows?

At about 1:30 in this video, the reporter says detectives were timing themselves running up the hill almost as if it was the exit point.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1595267432125706241

Another video showing the "back yard".

https://twitter.com/x/status/1594527972043948033

 

[gliving]

Just another pic of the back of the house. : )

https://twitter.com/x/status/1594835755742138368

 

[maconrich]

Just another pic of the back of the house. : )

https://twitter.com/x/status/1594835755742138368

The pics and video are great! Thank you ♥

Edited to add: running up the hill carrying that big knife indicates a mental attitude that seems not to include fear or caution.

 

[al66pine]

BK. Missed the Security Cam? Or...?

.... I do wonder how he missed seeing those particular cameras when he was scouting the area, but it's helpful that he did....

snipped for focus @maconrich
Yes, helpful that security cam close by recorded BKs car.

Per PCA he (his phone?) was in the 1122 King area 10+ times over a few months.

As to BK's "missing" the cam(s?) during his 10+ drive-bys in months before the murders, some possibilities.

1. Looking for cams each time, he noticed one...

(a) but decided his plan and prep were too far along to abort. Maybe on one of his later drive-bys. "Sunk costs" fallacy?

(b) but hoped cam would not capture the car as he hoped cam was broken, turned off, or a dummy cam.* A Hail Mary prayer.

(c) and he realized cam might capture the car but thought LE would not be able identify the car as his. So many Elantras, you know.

(d) and he realized cam might capture his car and LE might identify car and therefore him, but "knew" once they learned he was a "nice young college graduate student" w no crim record, LE would briefly interview but conduct no further investigation of him.

(e) and he realized cam might capture car, LE might identify car, locate & interview him, and if so, interview, but at most, would quickly eyeball car seats & trunk, find no apparent blood, then would dismiss him as a suspect, conduct no further investigation of him.

2. He looked for cams each time but just plain did not see any.

3. He looked for cameras each time, but the single cam w incriminating vid was installed after his last drive by and before fatal morning.

4. He did not look for cams in the area.

BK might have missed the cam(s), or he might have engaged in some WISHFUL THINKING.
^1 is more likely, imo, than 2, 3, or 4. IDK

_____________________________________________
* BNT Dummy Fake Security Camera, with One Red LED Light at Night, for Home and Businesses Security Indoor/Outdoor (2 Pack, White)

https://www.amazon.com/Outdoor-Motion-Sensor-Lights-Security/dp/B07ZCNGH9P/ref=asc_df_B07ZCNGH9P/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=417002724443&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9181810714838855108&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030460&hvtargid=pla-876325530661&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=92049667857&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=417002724443&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9181810714838855108&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9030460&hvtargid=pla-876325530661

 

[Justice101]

Just another pic of the back of the house. : )

https://twitter.com/x/status/1594835755742138368

That picture shows a lot!

If BK parked back there, with that evergreen there, he would have been able to hide his car behind the tree and still peep looking into the window of the second floor.

 

[Boxer]

I'll assume the tire marks were entered as evidence.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1594055435556122625

Wow. Does this mean he layed a patch on the way out?

 

[Boxer]

Yes. But the time line gives little to no room for surprises, or unplanned or unexpected actions or reactions. Things had to have gone almost perfectly. I'm not sure what the odds of that happening are, but it's part of the reason I think the time line is too tight and would do better if it had a little wiggle room. But it does make me believe that he knew the house, and at the very least knew how to get from point A to point B (and to point C unless he followed or watched Xana or Ethan go to their room). Like I said, I can see it as do-able but perhaps not practical. And I don't think that would detract from the evidence or the presentation of it. After all I don't think we're supposed to believe the killer had super powers - better to think of him as a man: a man who made human mistakes (assuming that he did -- and I am assuming he did).

Edited to add: I'm honestly not trying to be difficult or obtuse, and I do understand what you're saying.

MOO he had 4 minutes wiggle room.

IFAIK the act of violent murders happen in far less than 3 minutes.

 

[Justice101]

BK. Missed the Security Cam? Or...?

snipped for focus @maconrich
Yes, helpful that security cam close by recorded BKs car.

Per PCA he (his phone?) was in the 1122 King area 10+ times over a few months.

As to BK's "missing" the cam(s?) during his 10+ drive-bys in months before the murders, some possibilities.

1. Looking for cams each time, he noticed one...

(a) but decided his plan and prep were too far along to abort. Maybe on one of his later drive-bys. "Sunk costs" fallacy?

(b) but hoped cam would not capture the car as he hoped cam was broken, turned off, or a dummy cam.* A Hail Mary prayer.

(c) and he realized cam might capture the car but thought LE would not be able identify the car as his. So many Elantras, you know.

(d) and he realized cam might capture his car and LE might identify car and therefore him, but "knew" once they learned he was a "nice young college gradate student" w no crim record, LE would briefly interview but conduct no further investigation of him.

(e) and he realized cam might capture car, LE might identify car, locate & interview him, and if so, interview, but at most, would quickly eyeball car seats & trunk, find no apparent blood, then would dismiss him as a suspect, conduct no further investigation of him.

2. He looked for cams each time but just plain did not see any.

3. He looked for cameras each time, but the single cam w incriminating vid was installed after his last drive by and before fatal morning.

4. He did not look for cams in the area.

BK might have missed the cam(s), or he might have engaged in some WISHFUK thinking.
^1 is more likely, imo, than 2, 3, or 4. IDK

_____________________________________________
* BNT Dummy Fake Security Camera, with One Red LED Light at Night, for Home and Businesses Security Indoor/Outdoor (2 Pack, White)

https://www.amazon.com/Outdoor-Moti...locphy=9030460&hvtargid=pla-876325530661[/URL

Most of the video camera systems ...t old video like that, probably written over.

 

[Justice101]

Wow. Does this mean he layed a patch on the way out?

Not in an Elantra. trust me on that one LOL. No way an Elantra can do that... I have one.

Probably was going to fast and hit the brakes and skidded.

 

[Gemmie]

Not in an Elantra. trust me on that one LOL. No way an Elantra can do that... I have one.

Probably was going to fast and hit the brakes and skidded.

Not doubting you since I've never driven an Elantra, but I'm venturing a guess that you've never driven in the same circumstances that BK had as he left. His heart would have been racing due to what he had just done (especially since it's my belief that he went to kill only 1, and ended up killing 4), he would have wanted AWAY from that place IMMEDIATELY and likely stomped on the gas as hard as he could. Probably not even thinking about how hard he gassed it.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Where I'm stuck is extremely unpopular and something I can't explain. Plain and simple, my brain still glitches when it comes to BK and the murders. I strongly believe that something isn't adding up -- like something is missing (or a few things are missing). This isn't normal for me, which adds to my confusion, but I can't shake it. If BK is guilty, and if he did this by himself, I'm sure that whatever is throwing me off will fall into place (when we get more information). I'm in no way a fan of BK's, and I'm not defending him or overlooking things that point to him. But, at this point, based on what we know so far, I wouldn't be able to find him guilty. Just MOO as frustrating as it might be.

Snipped by me for focus.

I think you'd be surprised by how many people agree with you, even if they're not posting in this thread. There's something not adding up for a lot of us, IMO. When all is said and done, I do think that BK is guilty of something on some level with the victims, but the inconsistency of pre and post-crime sloppiness mixed with the supposed stealthy efficiency in pulling this off in 15 minutes and only leaving that DNA on the snap and the latent footprint that wasn't even discovered until second processing (based on what we know thus far), is...something.

MOO.

 

[jepop]

Hey @jepop, how do the tire marks in front of the house fit in this scenario?

I've spent (too much) time trying to figure out where he may have parked compared to where he left the tire marks.

View attachment 415289

View attachment 415290

The video below shows LE measuring the marks and gives a good idea of the location.

Idaho university murders: Investigators seen measuring tire marks at house where 4 students were killed

Idaho investigators were seen measuring tire marks outside of the Moscow, Idaho, home where four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death.

www.foxnews.com

Had another look at the video and then used google maps just for better orientation. IMO those tyre marks could be reverse/back up marks after an unsuccessful attempt at turning around in front of 1122- if elantra was travelling west. The marks appear to curve from the RHS of the road to the LHS. I think if the elantra stopped, attempted to turn towards the left, couldn't do it and reversed back round to the right that could leave rubber marks like that. Especially if the driver was frustrated. MOO. At the beginning of the vid investigators are measuring the straight section of the mark on the RHS (when facing west) that is pretty much directly opposite 1122. Anyway that's one possibility which would be consistent with an attempted turn by elantra travelling west on Queen. Could also be unrelated or left by doordash or something else. If they were caused by a car travelling east then it might have been a stop on the left opposite 1122 then back-up into a parallel park on the RHS below 1122 whilst burning rubber. That would be facing the wrong way for a quick get away though. MOO

 

[maconrich]

Snipped by me for focus.

I think you'd be surprised by how many people agree with you, even if they're not posting in this thread. There's something not adding up for a lot of us, IMO. When all is said and done, I do think that BK is guilty of something on some level with the victims, but the inconsistency of pre and post-crime sloppiness mixed with the supposed stealthy efficiency in pulling this off in 15 minutes and only leaving that DNA on the snap and the latent footprint that wasn't even discovered until second processing (based on what we know thus far), is...something.

MOO.

I think I would indeed be surprised if that's true I fully agree with the inconsistencies you noted. Almost like the actions of two (or more) people, with some being better at things than the other(s). I'm not ready to consider, and don't believe at this point, that BK might be so mentally unwell that his own personas or illness could explain the inconsistencies. It's more that there's just "something" (like you said) that doesn't add up...

 

[SophieRose]

Yes, even with the trees the moon would have provided light. And since it was mid Nov the foliage etc should have been thinning out (which also would have made it less difficult). If he had a headlamp like @10ofRods suggested, it would have been easier for him to go down, and for sure easier to go back up since he was carrying a knife (without a sheath). There could be informal paths. I'm not sure if the police were seeing those or just seeing ways that looked relatively easy to climb down. I don't however believe the killer went down that hill for the first time that night. Even if he is a young athletic man. IMHO he practiced his route physically and mentally - no matter if he planned to cut thru the woods or walk down the side road. (Edited to correct a word)

Aerial view of house and pack parking lot in winter.

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/in-this-aerial-view-a-home-that-is-the-site-of-a-quadruple-news-photo/1245970719?adppopup=true

 

[WingsOverTX]

Hey @jepop, how do the tire marks in front of the house fit in this scenario?

I've spent (too much) time trying to figure out where he may have parked compared to where he left the tire marks.

View attachment 415289

View attachment 415290

The video below shows LE measuring the marks and gives a good idea of the location.

Idaho university murders: Investigators seen measuring tire marks at house where 4 students were killed

Idaho investigators were seen measuring tire marks outside of the Moscow, Idaho, home where four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death.

www.foxnews.com

Is there any proof those are tire marks made by his car? Maybe I missed something in the PCA? Maybe they have before & after video of some kind?

I've always wondered how something fairly commonplace could be attributed to BK & how/why it matters in the trail of evidence. Seems innocuous to me even if left by his car but forensically I must be missing something.

JMO