4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, 2022 #78

[10ofRods]

Thanks, @Nila Aella

Sounds like it's "all about the DNA" testing details, IMO.

Well, I'd say the phone movements are important as well. They correspond to the Elantra arriving near 1122 at a time corresponding to his departure from Pullman. He turns his phone off. That's evidence. Then a car closely resembling his (complete with one unusual marker: no front license plate - yet) is seen circling 3 times around 1122's area before parking in between two cameras that had picked it up, driving past the house, before. It stops there around 4 am. Witness places strange man (roughly matching BK's description) inside the house approximately 4:20.

The owner of the Elantra (don't forget that evidence is taken in total) possesses the DNA on the knife sheath. So it's not just any Elantra. In watching the Gannon Stauch trial, each expert testified separately, was cross-examined separately, and the jury has to make its conclusions.

The next day, BK leaves with his phone (not turning it off, apparently) and drives to 1122 King Road, then circles around Moscow (taking the same long route home as he did the night of the murders - keep in mind that he turned his phone back on about 15-20 minutes after his car is seen speeding away from 1122, caught on cameras again - likely also caught on the gas station camera - but that had not been analyzed at the time of the PCA). He stops at Albertson's and we will eventually learn what he purchased there, IMO.

Given that he did leave the sheath (with his DNA on a use point for that sheath - it was not fresh out of a package, his fingers had used that snap device), he might have made other errors. It would be really hard to get out of his blood-stained clothes and not leave tiny amounts of victim blood DNA elsewhere (e.g., car; seatbelt mechanism; foot pedals). There's also his shoe size and gait type to reveal from the footprints (I assume the latent one is just the last in a larger series).

There's also BK creeping into the instagram comments of at least one victim (three weeks prior to the murders, using his own profile - now gone). He did this more than once, basically doing what a lot of other guys do - joining in a chain of comments on Instagram. Banfield didn't do the original research here, but did report it:

Let's see whether BK committed the "perfect crime" or not. There's going to be a lot more (GPS; more internet-based data - such as Google searches; GPS from Google maps recorded when he did have his phone on; evidence regarding whether he appears to have parked in Moscow on those 11-12 visits where he was within cell range of 1122, etc). His phone is going to reveal a lot.

The guy couldn't even leave it off for more than 15-20 minutes after leaving 1122. He was likely needing his map data when he pulled off into that little town and paused, turning his phone on. Forgot to turn if off (or leave it home) the next morning, though.

People have been convicted on less. Depends on the jurisdiction and the jury, in the end.

IMO.

 

[schooling]

Very well said...I would add also that if someone is wrongfully convicted the person(s) that did are still free to do it again. IMO

You very well maybe right about the videos etc, but I dont think anyone here was suggesting that the Defense was going to build their entire case on the Elantra miss info. At least for me and the way I read the other posts the Elantra situation was just the subject of that one discussion. MOO

I was referring to the prosecution crafting most of their PCA narrative around the white Hyundai. And I assume it will continue to be a central piece of the investigation and the case.

IMO Either the video is too blurry to tell what model year it is. Or there are angles with clearly identifiable indicators that it’s a 2015.

Anything else sounds like legal malpractice to me. Even with the DNA placing him inside of the house.

Also I agree that there are plenty of explanations of why you could be cruising around Moscow at 3am other than murder. But if they connect the Elantra in WA to the Elantra on King Rd. I mean….

MOO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Well, I'd say the phone movements are important as well. They correspond to the Elantra arriving near 1122 at a time corresponding to his departure from Pullman. He turns his phone off. That's evidence. Then a car closely resembling his (complete with one unusual marker: no front license plate - yet) is seen circling 3 times around 1122's area before parking in between two cameras that had picked it up, driving past the house, before. It stops there around 4 am. Witness places strange man (roughly matching BK's description) inside the house approximately 4:20.

The owner of the Elantra (don't forget that evidence is taken in total) possesses the DNA on the knife sheath. So it's not just any Elantra. In watching the Gannon Stauch trial, each expert testified separately, was cross-examined separately, and the jury has to make its conclusions.

The next day, BK leaves with his phone (not turning it off, apparently) and drives to 1122 King Road, then circles around Moscow (taking the same long route home as he did the night of the murders - keep in mind that he turned his phone back on about 15-20 minutes after his car is seen speeding away from 1122, caught on cameras again - likely also caught on the gas station camera - but that had not been analyzed at the time of the PCA). He stops at Albertson's and we will eventually learn what he purchased there, IMO.

Given that he did leave the sheath (with his DNA on a use point for that sheath - it was not fresh out of a package, his fingers had used that snap device), he might have made other errors. It would be really hard to get out of his blood-stained clothes and not leave tiny amounts of victim blood DNA elsewhere (e.g., car; seatbelt mechanism; foot pedals). There's also his shoe size and gait type to reveal from the footprints (I assume the latent one is just the last in a larger series).

There's also BK creeping into the instagram comments of at least one victim (three weeks prior to the murders, using his own profile - now gone). He did this more than once, basically doing what a lot of other guys do - joining in a chain of comments on Instagram. Banfield didn't do the original research here, but did report it:

Let's see whether BK committed the "perfect crime" or not. There's going to be a lot more (GPS; more internet-based data - such as Google searches; GPS from Google maps recorded when he did have his phone on; evidence regarding whether he appears to have parked in Moscow on those 11-12 visits where he was within cell range of 1122, etc). His phone is going to reveal a lot.

The guy couldn't even leave it off for more than 15-20 minutes after leaving 1122. He was likely needing his map data when he pulled off into that little town and paused, turning his phone on. Forgot to turn if off (or leave it home) the next morning, though.

People have been convicted on less. Depends on the jurisdiction and the jury, in the end.

IMO.

Agree there are many many important aspects of the case besides DNA testing, @10ofRods

In my post I was replying to the 3rd discovery dated yesterday @Nia Aella posted, that when I read it appears to be all about the DNA testing, IMO.

 

[schooling]

Last thing…(thought it’s never the last thing)

In the PCA law enforcement presents a series of events that I’ve seen missed by a lot of people. It’s super duper important.

The grocery store sequence.

1. A white Elantra, matched to the same cell service as the previous night pulls in. CCTV captures this.

2. BK is on video getting out of said white Elantra. Matched to the same cell service. CCTV captures this.

3. BK goes inside. CCTV. Cell.

4. BK gets back in the car. You know the drill.

It’s to explicitly to tie him to that car and that cell phone. Since they likely don’t have images of him inside of it the night before.

In the daytime video it will be clear as day that he’s driving a 2015 Elantra.

So IMO we’re going to see something beyond cellular evidence that connects the cars. Is it the 2015 features caught on CCTV that night? Is it the distinct colors on the PA plate? Is there some other distinct mark on the car?

MOO

 

[Boxer]

Those questions may not be needed for just one juror to have doubts. They would be needed to prove BK didn't do it, but that isn't how our judicial system is set up.

Also, the cars aren't virtually identical to experts. If @Montecore1 was able to describe the many differences, then surely the FBI forensic expert could do the same.

MOO.

MOO in my opinion the model years are near identical and MOO jurors take their service very seriously, so a missed year span won't be an issue.
Of course there may be other reasons they have doubts, but MOO this won't affect them much.

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1654263176068726784

 

[SpiderFalcon]

As suspected, the testing of DNA was not done by the State of Idaho but was farmed out. This is getting all that info. But we are pretty far along. Is the defense late or was the info to them late? We are just over a month from pretrial.

IANAL: Where does it say in that document that the testing of DNA was not done by the State of Idaho? And IYO, why do you think the defense is just now asking for it, or why would it have been "late"?

 

[10ofRods]

MOO in my opinion the model years are near identical and MOO jurors take their service very seriously, so a missed year span won't be an issue.
Of course there may be other reasons they have doubts, but MOO this won't affect them much.

Having watched so many juries in my life (both civil and criminal), I have to agree. The demographics of Moscow (and its jurors) are somewhere in between Utah and Colorado, IMO. Most people won't be able to tell the car apart from several other kinds of white sedans, and the expert will say that it took time to rectify the photo (which it did).

And I do believe that when Moscow PD kept announcing and ANNOUNCING that if you drive a white Elantra (years x-y) and you were in Moscow on the night of the murders, PLEASE come to us with your explanation for why you were there. Over and over. They did not immediately narrow down their focus (even though at one point, it's clear they had heard from the WSU Campus Police about a particular Elantra).

They hoped to flush BK out. They were trying to entice him to do the thing that was best for him - and for Justice, which is go talk to police. He of course knew Criminal Procedure (at least a little, given that he might have taken it online and not have had to actually visit courtrooms). A guilty person should never go talk to police, is likely what he learned on Reddit and in his CJ classes (let's not forget he was active on various SM and not just as a commenter - he clearly knows how to read).

The jury will understand that the year difference is not a big deal (and if it is, then the State's case is fairly weak).

IMO.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Def 3rd supplemental request for discovery

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/050323%20Defendants%203rd%20Supplemental%20Request%20for%20Discovery.pdf

Awesome! Thank you!

 

[sds71]

ByMikeBaker


We also received 166 pages related to December search of Kohberger's apartment, including details on blood testing (2 things presumptive positive) and items collected. Sharing the full file, as I know many are watching the facts of this case closely: https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/kohberger-search-records-from-wsu/6e5a6ce24a286a06/full.pdf

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

ByMikeBaker


We also received 166 pages related to December search of Kohberger's apartment, including details on blood testing (2 things presumptive positive) and items collected. Sharing the full file, as I know many are watching the facts of this case closely: https://int.nyt.com/data/documenttools/kohberger-search-records-from-wsu/6e5a6ce24a286a06/full.pdf

Okay, love that WA State LE made sure to get that warrant before going into an open storage unit even though they had the warrant for the apartment. That's how it's done. It doesn't always happen.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

MOO in my opinion the model years are near identical and MOO jurors take their service very seriously, so a missed year span won't be an issue.
Of course there may be other reasons they have doubts, but MOO this won't affect them much.

Depends on how it's phrased to them, I suppose. I see the prosecution phrasing it as you have. I see the defense saying "a missed year span is an entirely different car, one that the defendant doesn't own."

IMO, we shouldn't be speaking for the jury as none of us have no idea how the chosen 12 will respond to the evidence. A random skim of posts here tells me that multiple people see and interpret evidence very differently and it's entirely possible that at least one juror will be unconvinced.

 

[DizzyB]

interesting video. It kind of gives you a feel for BK. At first he seemed to play it like an aw shucks I’m from Pennsylvania where the rules are different, but then it turned. It became like debate club with a cop, which doesn’t go well where I live. I understand the impressions of him as a TA more from this clip.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Just something to ponder, IMO, if there are multiple reasons (up to 6) to seal the warrant in the instance of records from WSU where BK was a student and TA.

That's true, but those reasons have to be weighed against the public's right to know. In so many instances in this case (and I've been through all the warrants and affidavits), the court sealed the affidavit (curse them all lol!) but redacted the warrants, so I can't help but wonder what the registrar had that could move the court to seal it all when redaction is a viable option. JMO and no way to know, but I would think if it were just employment records for BK, redaction would have been fine. ICBW.

 

[SpiderFalcon]

As suspected, the testing of DNA was not done by the State of Idaho but was farmed out. This is getting all that info. But we are pretty far along. Is the defense late or was the info to them late? We are just over a month from pretrial.

@PrairieWind

IANAL: Where does it say in that document that the testing of DNA was not done by the State of Idaho? And IYO, why do you think the defense is just now asking for it, or why would it have been "late"?

Genuinely would love your insight on this....

 

[Gardenista]

NM

 

[10ofRods]

<modsnip - quote post was deleted>

I figure LE already had him on their radar due to behaviors at the time, but of course, they can only report incident-by-incident.

Maybe some here do not live in neighborhoods in small towns (Moscow's population is about 26,000 - the size of my hometown, which has different dynamics to larger towns). It's true that it's only 8.2 miles from Pullman, which is the same situation as my hometown (except that Hometown has no college and the college in the next town is 10 miles away).

The local police's view about late night activity is complex, IME, but tries to result in a "safe space" for students.

Late night activity is carefully watched by LE in both the small town where I live, but also in the smallish towns next door. Further, Campus Police pay even more attention to such things. Moscow PD showed its commitment in the bodycam videos released. They try to be nice, but vigilant.

Out-of-state license plates are a thing that LE watches (I know this because I teach at police academies and am active in consulting with local LE). That can work both for and against BK - but in this case, makes him come up on police radar (which might work for his defense). I believe that's why they gave him multiple messages (via SM/presser). They could see that his car fit all the markers they were seeking, but they didn't want to zero in on a person who had an innocent reason for being there.

Until his DNA showed up.

IMO.

 

[Gardenista]

 

[10ofRods]

Those questions may not be needed for just one juror to have doubts. They would be needed to prove BK didn't do it, but that isn't how our judicial system is set up.

Also, the cars aren't virtually identical to experts. If @Montecore1 was able to describe the many differences, then surely the FBI forensic expert could do the same.

MOO.

Depending on their data, as it emerged over time.

All of this happened in real time, with fuzzy cameras and so on.

We wait to see what will come of the analysis.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

"Technically, you are not supposed to enter the intersection for any reason after...[light turns red]." LE is very nice to him.

Explains what a red light means several times. He dissembles/argues. Argues a lot, IMO. Makes excuses. Wow.

IMO.