4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 74

[Kemug]

Lol! Well, perhaps BK is handy with a needle and thread.

Is there no end to his charms?

 

[Kemug]

It's spooky to think of BK dressed in black, head to toe, while wearing gloves, probably a black mask and slinking around in the dark night in his childhood neighborhood messing with other people's stuff. Who the Whiskey Tango Hotel creeps around like that at night? He's off his rocker, as my Gma would say.

Yes Virginia, there is a bogeyman .

 

[Nichevo]

I don't believe those two tests were the same thing.

From everything I've gathered from reports.....police used genetic genealogy to narrow the pool down to Kohlberger. I wouldn't be surprised if we later found out that this is what helped get them get the cell phone tower evidence.

IMO Kohlberger was at the top of their person of interest list on the day the identification of his car happened. The investigator noted his bushy eyebrows (matched description), the lack of a front plate (matched the car on the videos) and particularly being pulled over in august late at night in the area (other kills have been caught this way).

I'm guessing that they might have worked to clear people from their list via the Genealogy results. As working backwards with at least one known variable is much quicker

Again, IMO BK was probably their #1 person of interest on the day his Elantra was called in.

The quick DNA test at the house was to confirm the earlier genealogy match (which could have been generations away from BK). With a known sample from his family tree.

So
1. DNA Sample Collected
2. No hit on CODIS
3. Straight to Genealogy
4. Genealogy shows that the person on their radar (elantra, bushy eyebrows, no plate, ticket) BK, is somehow related to the DNA owner
5. Dad's DnA is collected
6. Paternity test is ran on Dad's DNA against the suspects DNA
7. "YOU ARE 100%.....THE FATHER of the murderer!" - Maury

MOO

I’m confused, which two tests are you referring to? Also, what quick DNA testing at the house? Do these reports you are referring to jibe with the probable cause affadavit?

MOO

 

[jepop]

Why isn't the knife sheath found on the bed next to MM direct evidence of the crime of murder?

Indirect evidence:
Physical evidence
Forensic evidence
Blood evidence
Fingerprint evidence
Shoe print evidence

Direct evidence:
Is when someone testifies they saw the person commit a crime, or heard someone say something, or observed certain acts take place related to the crime.

Will DM be able to testify to observing certain acts such as the person walking past her to get to the slider? If so, that'd be direct evidence.

Both direct and circumstantial evidence, or a combination of the two, can be used to convict a person of a crime.

Yeah, I don't want to rush through Spring, or any such thing, bc I love life but I'm eager for June's PH.

Yes, dna, strictly speaking, is also circumstantial evidence. MOO

 

[jepop]

IIRC, The DNA found on the sheath was used with genealogy, and there was a family hit and it correlated to the car registration being Kohberger and they used the DNA from the trash (which turned out to be his fathers) to confirm the connection to him? I will have to trawl through posts to find a link so, JMO and as I said, IIRC and if not correctly, I'm happy to be told.

ETA: Found a link : Genealogists able to identify Bryan Kohberger as Idaho murder suspect within days -WPBF
"Police ran the unknown DNA through the national CODIS DNA database but came up empty because Kohberger had no criminal history.

That’s when sources say police had genetic genealogists upload the samples to a public database such as Family Tree DNA, looking for matching relatives.
Genealogists then built a family tree using birth and death records, census records and other hints until they had a whole tree of that extended family going back generations.

At that point, they move downward from great, great-parents to living people looking to see who is the right age, lives in the area, and could be a possible suspect"

BBM: I've never seen that verified by any LE source or in any documents released by LE and the courts (including the PCA which says something very different in regards to how BK's car was located). See PCA (link in media thread) for details of how BK's car was identofied initially. It sounds like media speculation. MOO

 

[NCWatcher]

Why isn't the knife sheath found on the bed next to MM direct evidence of the crime of murder?

Indirect evidence:
Physical evidence
Forensic evidence
Blood evidence
Fingerprint evidence
Shoe print evidence

Direct evidence:
Is when someone testifies they saw the person commit a crime, or heard someone say something, or observed certain acts take place related to the crime.

Will DM be able to testify to observing certain acts such as the person walking past her to get to the slider? If so, that'd be direct evidence.

Both direct and circumstantial evidence, or a combination of the two, can be used to convict a person of a crime.

Yeah, I don't want to rush through Spring, or any such thing, bc I love life but I'm eager for June's PH.

I'm not sure DM will testify. But if she does, I'm not at all sure she can identify BK. We've speculated that she was shocked to see anyone who didn't live there at that hour much less someone in the dark in a mask. But even if she says she's now sure it was BK, 1) that may not come across as believable and 2) that's still not direct evidence he committed murder anyway. She didn't witness him killing anyone. So she's not an eyewitness to murder. People may think the only reason he was there was to kill but that still means an inference has to be made. Same with presence of DNA on the sheath. DNA is indirect evidence like fingerprint evidence or shoe print evidence. Placing someone at the scene isn't direct evidence of murder although conviction is certainly possible based on only indirect evidence. And I've personally not seen any direct evidence discussed in this case.
JMO

 

[Dotta]

"Bryan Kohberger lawyer blasts 'grotesquely twisted' media coverage of stabbing that killed 4 Idaho students."​

I find this wording a little bit unusual.
"Grotesquely" - really??

Are such expressions common in legal language?

"Grotesquely twisted" seems so unusual - well,
for me as a no native Eng speaker haha

I thought legal language should be matter of factly/unemotional, not fancy.

JMO

Bryan Kohberger lawyer blasts 'grotesquely twisted' media coverage of stabbing that killed 4 Idaho students

Bryan Kohberger's defense team blasted "grotesquely twisted" media coverage of the Idaho student stabbings case that left four University of Idaho undergrads dead in November.

www.q13fox.com

 

[NCWatcher]

"Bryan Kohberger lawyer blasts 'grotesquely twisted' media coverage of stabbing that killed 4 Idaho students."​

I find this wording a little bit unusual.
"Grotesquely" - really??

Are such expressions common in legal language?

"Grotesquely twisted" seems so unusual - well,
for me as a no native Eng speaker haha

I thought legal language should be matter of factly/unemotional, not fancy.

JMO

Bryan Kohberger lawyer blasts 'grotesquely twisted' media coverage of stabbing that killed 4 Idaho students

Bryan Kohberger's defense team blasted "grotesquely twisted" media coverage of the Idaho student stabbings case that left four University of Idaho undergrads dead in November.

www.q13fox.com

I'm not sure that legal arguments are always supposed to be devoid of emotion. The arguments do need to be based on law/legal constructs, not only on emotion.

I gather the press argument against the gag order is partly "we need to be able to responsibly report facts & we can't do that with a gag order in place." And so the defense is arguing that is an invalid argument given that coverage routinely has been grossly inaccurate. Heck, people were ready to tar and feather AT. And some still may be as they believe AT was holding CN's hand daily and helping her cope in her daily life and then abruptly dropped her. Instead we find out they never met or even had a conversation! Of course, CN might still be upset but not many seemed to consider AT might not be at fault. And anything that damages AT potentially damages BL's fair trial.

I'll not expect prosecution arguments at trial to be devoid of emotion either. They certainly weren't at the recent trial of Alex Murdaugh.
JMO

 

[Dotta]

I'm not sure that legal arguments are always supposed to be devoid of emotion. The arguments do need to be based on law/legal constructs, not only on emotion.

I gather the press argument against the gag order is partly "we need to be able to responsibly report facts & we can't do that with a gag order in place." And so the defense is arguing that is an invalid argument given that coverage routinely has been grossly inaccurate. Heck, people were ready to tar and feather AT. And some still may be as they believe AT was holding CN's hand daily and helping her cope in her daily life and then abruptly dropped her. Instead we find out they never met or even had a conversation! Of course, CN might still be upset but not many seemed to consider AT might not be at fault. And anything that damages AT potentially damages BL's fair trial.

I'll not expect prosecution arguments at trial to be devoid of emotion either. They certainly weren't at the recent trial of Alex Murdaugh.
JMO

I see.
I can understand emotional trial speaking.

But I meant legal written documents.

Oh well,
The murders seem to be "grotesquely twisted", that's for sure

JMO

 

[Nova]

"Bryan Kohberger lawyer blasts 'grotesquely twisted' media coverage of stabbing that killed 4 Idaho students."​

I find this wording a little bit unusual.
"Grotesquely" - really??

Are such expressions common in legal language?

"Grotesquely twisted" seems so unusual - well,
for me as a no native Eng speaker haha

I thought legal language should be matter of factly/unemotional, not fancy.

JMO....

No, you are right. "Grotesquely twisted" is not a legal term in any English-speaking country of which I am aware. It's just a lawyer engaging the media and, perhaps, trying to compete with the colorful language already in circulation.

 

[NCWatcher]

I see.
I can understand emotional trial speaking.

But I meant legal written documents.

Oh well,
The murders seem to be "grotesquely twisted", that's for sure

JMO

At trial use of emotional language is sometimes used to try to inflame the jury. And we do expect judges to be more immune to that tactic. But documents like the one about the gag order are written with the knowledge they'll be read by the public, including by potential jurors. And in high profile cases both sides do whatever they can to influence people pre-trial. Sometimes it can cross a line even without a gag order. But often it's just part of the process when a case is high profile. In that regard this case is no different from other high profile cases.

We don't yet know the facts in this case much beyond that the 4 students were brutally murdered. At least we don't know them to a legal standard. Some of what we "know" hasn't been sworn to by anybody. And there's been no cross examination obviously. But it is clear to me there have been lots of misrepresentations in the press. Some unintentional, I'm quite sure. Some I'm equally sure were intentional. Done for lots of reasons including "clicks."
JMO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Im not sure about the clothes

But I feel that murder/s were (allegedly) on his mind from the start.

Not SA - was he even connected to any rapes before?
Not that I know of.

His survey tells me he was (allegedly) obsessed with murders.

And I guess, the massive knife was especially bought for this very reason.

IMO it was planned many months before the tragedy happened.
And it happened when he was faaaar away from family home.

Unfortunately, he (allegedly) brought this tragedy and infamy to family house when he decided to go back home at Christmas.
Was he running away?

The destruction of parents' home - that's on him, never LE.

If he is guilty, of course.

Just My Opinion.

Do you think he was planning to never return to Idaho?

Maybe felt like he was 'done' and was going to leave his mark and make a fresh start leaving his blot on the landscape? I guess any studying he wished to continue could be done online and he had been declined for the position with the police department IIRC?

Maybe he plotted something that represented his hatefulness towards the entire university community vibe and what he maybe believed was 'what was wrong', possibly a resentfulness against the close knit friendships and greeklife and party vibe plus the girls' sexual confidence and cheerfulness in general? MOO just speculating.

 

[maskedwoman]

Totally with you there. My feeling when I found out what you described above was that he planned to bounce. Add to that the fact that he was allegedly let go from his PhD position and seemed to be no longer enrolled at WSU, I agree it's likely he didn't plan to return. And that's not even taking the four murders that I think he likely carried out.

When I heard that BK's father was making the drive back with him, my immediate thought was that either the dad is super overbearing/controlling or that the dad was worried/knew that his son was in some sort of crisis. I'm NOT saying in ANY way that BK's dad knew about the murders, but I can believe that he and his wife may have sensed something was off with BK. He's 28 but he's ultimately still their child and it seems like he put them through a lot in the past, based on all the MSM reports. All JMO.

BK and his dad remind me of my grandfather and uncle. The uncle had something wrong with him his entire life. I don't think it was ever diagnosed. This was the 60's/70's. He had horrible grades after about 4th grade, could never handle money or make friends. My grandfather worked in city government and helped him get on the fire department, or he would never have had a steady job. Everything about him said "this guy is weird". I can see my grandfather flying out and driving back with my uncle, because they told him every single thing to do, thinking of it as "teaching" him. I thought of this when one of BK's neighbors said that Dad asked him to be BK's friend. Clearly, he didn't think BK could do something so basic as making a friend without his assistance. Sad, really. MOOooo

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I have one really important question. Was BK framing someone?

BK being the type of personality he was (as we have gleaned a fair bit over time) - why would he have taken the sheath for the knife into the house in the first place? If it wasn't affixed to his clothing via a belt / loop / cable tie etc. We know he barely left a trace in the house never mind only a single speck on the sheath itself. He must have handled the sheath incredibly carefully that it didn't have a jot of his DNA bar a tiny speck in the fastener, I mean that in itself is almost impossible.

So effectively, IMO, he didn't go in the house and take that knife out of the sheath to use it. The knife he used must have already either been out of that sheath -or- maybe was never in it and he used a knife that had it's own sheath.

He *must have* carefully deposited the 'discarded' sheath in a location he'd thought about either before or after all what he did, meantime having kept it in a sealed ziplock type bag so as it didn't pick up even a scrap of DNA or fibre, like he wasn't even breathing near that sheath.

Where was the sheath found again? It's placing must be significant. It's placing may have also been 'ceremonial' ie marking the end of his action - or - the 'commencing' of his action. I would argue the end because having kept it free from contact with the outside world in all the time he had it, he wouldn't be so stupid as to place it before he commenced his gruesome plan.

JMO MOO

 

[mooseandcoffee]

So maybe it was BK who ordered the Doordash delivery. Maybe so that he could enter the house unnoticed while attention was focused on the front door.

I have to think that this would be one of the first things they investigated....did the order come from someone's phone or computer in the house?

 

[maskedwoman]

His DNA on the sheath, depending on how it got there, may be hard to explain. However, that sheath being there does not mean he was there that night. Many would make that connection, but that isn't the only way the sheath could have gotten there. if there is no other DNA, that is a point the defense may use to inject doubt.

Respectfully, they have a lot of circumstantial evidence against him as well. With the DNA, the videos, the stalking, etc., if he can't come up with a pretty strong explanation for how the sheath got there without him having left that sheath there during the attack, I think he's toast.

 

[mooseandcoffee]

"Bryan Kohberger lawyer blasts 'grotesquely twisted' media coverage of stabbing that killed 4 Idaho students."​

I find this wording a little bit unusual.
"Grotesquely" - really??

Are such expressions common in legal language?

"Grotesquely twisted" seems so unusual - well,
for me as a no native Eng speaker haha

I thought legal language should be matter of factly/unemotional, not fancy.

JMO

Bryan Kohberger lawyer blasts 'grotesquely twisted' media coverage of stabbing that killed 4 Idaho students

Bryan Kohberger's defense team blasted "grotesquely twisted" media coverage of the Idaho student stabbings case that left four University of Idaho undergrads dead in November.

www.q13fox.com

The defense team is also trying to persuade their case. They can use descriptive language.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Or he donned it over his clothes after the murders, but before getting into his car.

JMO

Slightly sideways and a 'me-rail' but I once dropped a tin of gloss paint all down myself just outside my house. It bounced, the lid flew off, I was covered head to foot in bright blue oil based paint. I couldn't go inside my home because that would have destroyed the carpet, walls, door. Ideally I needed to strip off but couldn't as public outdoors. So, I had to think what to do. I went (dripping) to the shop next door and yelled out for them to please give me some heavy duty garbage bags and some selotape. I was able to seal my whole self head to toe in bin liners, sealing the paint inside, to get into my apartment. Once inside I sat in the bath to peel my clothes and the bin liners off me and I honestly didn't get a speck of paint on anything except the bath tub.

So what I'm saying is, three or four bin liners, or pull on some waterproof rain pants and anorack (is that a word?) would have kept the car relatively free of mess.

But where did he go immediately after to clean up?

 

[Sleuth2010]

I have one really important question. Was BK framing someone?

+snipped brevity+
"He *must have* carefully deposited the 'discarded' sheath in a location he'd thought about either before or after all what he did, meantime having kept it in a sealed ziplock type bag so as it didn't pick up even a scrap of DNA or fibre, like he wasn't even breathing near that sheath.

Where was the sheath found again? It's placing must be significant. It's placing may have also been 'ceremonial' ie marking the end of his action - or - the 'commencing' of his action. I would argue the end because having kept it free from contact with the outside world in all the time he had it, he wouldn't be so stupid as to place it before he commenced his gruesome plan."

JMO MOO

JMO MOO
He was 'stupid enough.' Make that evil. LovingIdaho4. We seek justice, because the victim's can not. WOJ

 

[Sleuth2010]

The defense team is also trying to persuade their case. They can use descriptive language.

Defense complaining about " grotesque on line..."
Blame the media, bloggers, websleuther's, websters, and normals. It sounded good when defense said it to themselves. MOO