4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 74

[gliving]

I believe JL is already co counsel and a death penalty qualified co-counsel.
The motion and order are for an additional death penalty qualified co-counsel.
MOO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030223%20Motion%20to%20Appoint%20Co-Counsel.pdf

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20Appointing%20Co-Counsel.pdf

Kohberger attorney represented parent of victim in Moscow homicides before taking his case - East Idaho News

BOISE (Idaho Statesman) — Up until taking his case, Bryan Kohberger’s court-appointed public defender was actively representing a parent of one of the four Moscow stabbing victims her client is accused of killing, court records show. Anne Taylor, chief of the Kootenai County Public Defender’s...

www.eastidahonews.com

edit: added co-counsel to first sentence and added link

From your link:

Anne C. Taylor, Public Defender, Bar Number: 5836
Jay W. Logsdon, Chief Deputy Public Defender, Bar Number: 8759

It seems things are ramping up. Have we heard who's on the prosecution's team?

 

[10ofRods]

I don't find the hiding DNA angle particularly sensical. Unless the FBI was sloppy with its surveillance, BK had no reason to feel obliged to conceal his DNA. They found used water bottles in his car; he wasn't hiding those. If he knew they were watching him, he'd also know that putting trash in the neighbor's bin would be noticed.

Personally, I think there are many people (including people who have committed crimes) who get exceptionally anxious, panicked even, and focus very closely on elements they think they can control.

BK is not a reasonable person in the first place. He has highly disordered thinking (IMO). He had every reason to try and delay what happened to him, and therefore, to try and keep his DNA from investigators. He originally thought maybe he had "gotten away with it." But once they announced they were looking for a white Hyundai (regardless of age), he knew he was on LE radar. He is not unintelligent.

I think he did *not* think that he'd be noticed, at least when he was in his planning stage. His plan was to leave as little DNA was possible and use the ruse that he had simply been to the house for a party. But, he leaves behind the sheath. Just like he forgot to coax data out of his "subjects" for his master's thesis. It's actually really common among criminals, but also among ordinary, minor wrong-doers. They think they're smarter than LE (etc).

BK did not want his parents implicated, he didn't want them embarrassed. So he did his best, as he had done since childhood, to be a good kid and to cover his tracks.

He couldn't help working with the trash, because it was the only thing he could do and that's how most people (not just criminals) think. IMO.

BK is the anxious but stoic type; he never "meant" to do what he did (in his mind) and afterwards, he tried the "I didn't mean to; I can fix this" strategy.

IMO.

 

[Nova]

Exactly. For me personally, if I am restating something someone has told me, I will not relay it to others as 'fact', I will hedge that with 'apparently', or 'so-and-so said whatever', etc.

FWIW, I think most of us do that. I do. And we're probably using the word incorrectly, since "apparent" is related to "appearance". It isn't another word for "hearsay". LOL.

So the other possibility that remains is it looked like BK was separating his trash into baggies, but no one asked him and/or he refused to confirm that that was what he was doing.

 

[10ofRods]

************************ POST OF THE DAY *****************
.......................WE HAVE A WINNER......................

snipping for focus @kittythehare Yes, exactly.

Like tidying up the thesis in his head.

Exactly. I'm sitting here dealing with a slew of students who "did things in their heads." I don't know what to say about missing papers, improperly constructed theses, etc. Do we simply change our standards for one person? (The answer is often "yes" these days - especially with so many students having "personal education plans" or other accommodations.

Most students, however, see other students in class and obtain some vague notion of their own standing. It's so important. Many a student thinks they are the smartest person in the room - when they are the only person they see (online classes). After a couple of years of online only teaching, I can say that 90% or more of students do not turn on their cameras (nor are they required to). If one calls upon them (as one might do in a real world class), they are simply quiet. Later, they will say they didn't have the bandwidth to do more (and this could be true).

At any rate, even in the regular classroom, students avoid each others' gazes. I had lots of classes where we sat round table style - that's not possible today. The students do not see other students' facial expressions (which can range from concern to eye rolling to astonishment to admiration).

Those are random thoughts about BK's online educational situation - his master's thesis and his inability to adapt to WSU's in person program. He was led to believe, by online learning, that he was okay. But online life is limited and real world experiences (such as being able to speak out loud to a class, if you're going to be a teacher) are extremely important. I hope we don't forget that.

ALL IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

FWIW, I think most of us do that. I do. And we're probably using the word incorrectly, since "apparent" is related to "appearance". It isn't another word for "hearsay". LOL.

So the other possibility that remains is it looked like BK was separating his trash into baggies, but no one asked him and/or he refused to confirm that that was what he was doing.

Yes! These are the skills we practice in real life. And which we hope others hear us practice.

If someone who gives me a "fact" hears me say "apparently," then maybe they will step up and give their eyewitness account?

I have no idea what BK was doing with trash but I do know that some items would contain vastly more DNA than others. Maybe he thought (having had very little coursework in biologic forensics, AFAIK) that getting rid of the most obvious DNA-containing things would be a solution. Frankly, if I were panicked about felony evidence from a felony I had committed, I wouldn't be thinking very straight, either.

IMO.

 

[Nila Aella]

3 DP qualified attorneys? I guess Boise is supplying one or two?

Death penalty qualified attorney(qualified to act as lead counsel)

AT: Office of the Public Defender of Kootenai County Coeur d'Alene, ID

One death penalty qualified co-counsel (qualified to act as co-counsel)

JL: Office of the Public Defender of Kootenai County Coeur d'Alene, ID

? New attorney: I did look for the current roster of death qualified attorneys (which was updated 3/2/23) and the link doesn't work. The article link below (Jan 23) says there are a dozen, but they reside well outside North Idaho. The judge just signed the order to appoint co-counsel 3/6/23. I think we will find out who when the notice of appearance is filed with the court.

MOO

Kohberger attorney represented parent of victim in Moscow homicides before taking his case - East Idaho News

BOISE (Idaho Statesman) — Up until taking his case, Bryan Kohberger’s court-appointed public defender was actively representing a parent of one of the four Moscow stabbing victims her client is accused of killing, court records show. Anne Taylor, chief of the Kootenai County Public Defender’s...

www.eastidahonews.com

Aside from Taylor, a dozen public defenders in Idaho are qualified to lead a capital case. But each of them resides well outside North Idaho.

Another 10 public defenders are qualified to act as co-counsel on a capital case, including two in North Idaho. One is Taylor’s chief deputy of litigation, Jay Logsdon, who is her co-counsel in the Kohberger case.

EBM: spelling and changed order signing date to 3/6

 

[Nila Aella]

From your link:

Anne C. Taylor, Public Defender, Bar Number: 5836
Jay W. Logsdon, Chief Deputy Public Defender, Bar Number: 8759

It seems things are ramping up. Have we heard who's on the prosecution's team?

I looked through some of the filings and only see two.
WWT,jr and AJ.

MOO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/010523%20Court%20Minutes%20-%20Criminal%20Template%201.pdf

EBM corrected WWT,jr

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

I don't think it would.
Even if he'd got wind of a DNA sample isolated, he actually is his DNA.
And he wasn't ziplocking himself.

I think it's more about his rationale for allegedly doing what he allegedly did. as if he was creating something novel which required every single atom of everything to do with the perp.

Like tidying up a thesis...
the thesis in his head...
jMO

I have been saying this for so long, it's a thesis
JMO

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Exactly. I'm sitting here dealing with a slew of students who "did things in their heads." I don't know what to say about missing papers, improperly constructed theses, etc. Do we simply change our standards for one person? (The answer is often "yes" these days - especially with so many students having "personal education plans" or other accommodations.

Most students, however, see other students in class and obtain some vague notion of their own standing. It's so important. Many a student thinks they are the smartest person in the room - when they are the only person they see (online classes). After a couple of years of online only teaching, I can say that 90% or more of students do not turn on their cameras (nor are they required to). If one calls upon them (as one might do in a real world class), they are simply quiet. Later, they will say they didn't have the bandwidth to do more (and this could be true).

At any rate, even in the regular classroom, students avoid each others' gazes. I had lots of classes where we sat round table style - that's not possible today. The students do not see other students' facial expressions (which can range from concern to eye rolling to astonishment to admiration).

Those are random thoughts about BK's online educational situation - his master's thesis and his inability to adapt to WSU's in person program. He was led to believe, by online learning, that he was okay. But online life is limited and real world experiences (such as being able to speak out loud to a class, if you're going to be a teacher) are extremely important. I hope we don't forget that.

ALL IMO.

RBBM
I love your post, but the part I bolded is what stood out to me directly.
I am one of these students (albeit a mature student), and my professor (coincidentally in your field) makes us sit around a four-by-four square table. It was awkward to start because we had just not been used to it, but it's going great now.

It makes a huge difference being in 'in-person' classes, and I appreciate it must be difficult for some individuals to adapt to the social and 'present' part. I have seen it in person with some students.
ETA: JME

 

[KonaHonu]

FWIW, I think most of us do that. I do. And we're probably using the word incorrectly, since "apparent" is related to "appearance". It isn't another word for "hearsay". LOL.

Just picking a nit but "apparent" in science means more like "as observed."

Black's law dictionary defines it as "That which Is obvious, evident, or manifest; what appears, or has been made manifest. In respect to facts involved in an appeal or writ of error, that which is stated in the record."

So, I agree, it is in no way akin to hearsay. Something that is apparent is essentially an accepted fact in both law and science.

 

[KonaHonu]

Death penalty qualified attorney(qualified to act as lead counsel)

AT: Office of the Public Defender of Kootenai County Coeur d'Alene, ID

One death penalty qualified co-counsel (qualified to act as co-counsel)

JL: Office of the Public Defender of Kootenai County Coeur d'Alene, ID

? New attorney: I did look for the current roster of death qualified attorneys (which was updated 3/2/23) and the link doesn't work. The article link below (Jan 23) says there are a dozen, but they reside well outside North Idaho. The judge just signed the order to appoint co-counsel 3/6/23. I think we will find out who when the notice of appearance is filed with the court.

MOO

Kohberger attorney represented parent of victim in Moscow homicides before taking his case - East Idaho News

BOISE (Idaho Statesman) — Up until taking his case, Bryan Kohberger’s court-appointed public defender was actively representing a parent of one of the four Moscow stabbing victims her client is accused of killing, court records show. Anne Taylor, chief of the Kootenai County Public Defender’s...

www.eastidahonews.com

Aside from Taylor, a dozen public defenders in Idaho are qualified to lead a capital case. But each of them resides well outside North Idaho.

Another 10 public defenders are qualified to act as co-counsel on a capital case, including two in North Idaho. One is Taylor’s chief deputy of litigation, Jay Logsdon, who is her co-counsel in the Kohberger case.

EBM: spelling and changed order signing date to 3/6

Let's not forget that at least 2 of those are busy with the Daybells! If things keep going like this Idaho is going to run out of DP qualified lawyers!

 

[helenann2k]

'Apparently'

“Apparently” means evidently, true based on what is known or seen. I believe LE actually saw him with the trash, rhe gloves and the ziplocks, likely with trash in a bag. MOO

 

[maskedwoman]

LE would be looking at car washes and laundry mats. Washing the car in the apartment parking lot might draw attention. Do nothing to stand out. Don't take car where security cameras might be watching. Where could he go to vacuum it without being seen?

I think you could be on to something. I doubt he would want to draw attention to himself in public, with the kind of intense cleaning of the car he apparently did. And maybe he subconsciously felt safer with it dirty, because it looked less white.

 

[NottaYutz]

Another segment. Idaho Murders: As a Small Town Grapples With Sinister Rumors, Media’s True-Crime Obsession Grows

 

[ktm44]

I couldn't find it and I have a feeling the website was closed or made private..

I have been spending too much of my life applying his alleged crime to what you wrote.
I think it's bound to reflect his studies or whatever hypotheses he was playing with intellectually..
but I can find no structure or anything that could define what is open source and apply it accordingly..
If this horrific act of violence is related to academia, how does it fit and I'm well past my theories about infamous serial killers he may have infiltrated his mind through either osmosis or transference because he may have shown a rabid interest in them, a fact we do not know, actually. I'll park it for now. It's only a theory.

So, what?
so, why?

What was his alleged gain?
What is it now?

Perhaps his alleged gain was no different than so many others, noteriety. His name is known, books will be written, movies will be made and his actions will be scrutinized for years to come.

A self perceived nobody just made himself what he believes is a somebody.

 

[CGray123]

I couldn't find it and I have a feeling the website was closed or made private..

I have been spending too much of my life applying his alleged crime to what you wrote.
I think it's bound to reflect his studies or whatever hypotheses he was playing with intellectually..
but I can find no structure or anything that could define what is open source and apply it accordingly..
If this horrific act of violence is related to academia, how does it fit and I'm well past my theories about infamous serial killers he may have infiltrated his mind through either osmosis or transference because he may have shown a rabid interest in them, a fact we do not know, actually. I'll park it for now. It's only a theory.

So, what?
so, why?

What was his alleged gain?
What is it now?

You are right. We don't know that BK was influenced by or had a rabid interest in serial killers. We may never know.

I do not believe BK's crime was closely related to his studies, but I do think knowing the specific focus of expertise he planned to develop in his Ph.D. dissertation could provide a bit of insight into his mind. Getting a Ph.D. is an intense process requiring diligent and thorough study of a narrow issue. The process focuses the mind on that issue, sometimes for years.

My interest in his specific studies is this: If BK's Ph.D. dissertation was to be focused on data security and analysis in law enforcement, this speculation about his interest in SKs would not be supported by the nature of his studies. If he was studying serial killers or thrill killers or mass murderers, another inference might be drawn from that.

IMO, BK's gain from these horrific acts was a perverse satisfaction in killing pretty women, a release of the tension his psychopathology was creating in him. Now, his gain is proving himself smarter than the prosecution, getting away with this crime, with the hope of doing it again.

MOO

 

[Spec-u-lator]

Personally, I think there are many people (including people who have committed crimes) who get exceptionally anxious, panicked even, and focus very closely on elements they think they can control.

BK is not a reasonable person in the first place. He has highly disordered thinking (IMO). He had every reason to try and delay what happened to him, and therefore, to try and keep his DNA from investigators. He originally thought maybe he had "gotten away with it." But once they announced they were looking for a white Hyundai (regardless of age), he knew he was on LE radar. He is not unintelligent.

I think he did *not* think that he'd be noticed, at least when he was in his planning stage. His plan was to leave as little DNA was possible and use the ruse that he had simply been to the house for a party. But, he leaves behind the sheath. Just like he forgot to coax data out of his "subjects" for his master's thesis. It's actually really common among criminals, but also among ordinary, minor wrong-doers. They think they're smarter than LE (etc).

BK did not want his parents implicated, he didn't want them embarrassed. So he did his best, as he had done since childhood, to be a good kid and to cover his tracks.

He couldn't help working with the trash, because it was the only thing he could do and that's how most people (not just criminals) think. IMO.

BK is the anxious but stoic type; he never "meant" to do what he did (in his mind) and afterwards, he tried the "I didn't mean to; I can fix this" strategy.

IMO.

This! BK knew at some point that he left the sheath and that it was an important piece of evidence LE would scrutinize. He could only HOPE they would find no DNA. But if they did, they did. He could not control that. What he COULD do, was try to prevent LE from matching it to him, especially after he knew they were looking for his car. I suspect he used gloves, flashlight, cleaning solvents and rags to thoroughly clean the interior... at night, of course. Everything went in to baggies for discreet disposal. IMO this behavior began in WA and continued in PA. It has been alleged he was seen wearing gloves when shopping and taking out his trash. While there are all sorts of reasons any of us might do the same, IMO, it fits with 10ofRods theory BK was doing what he could to keep his DNA from being obtained. <modsnip - no link from an approved source> trying to control the outcome, hoping he got away undetected.

 

[Montecore1]

He also scoured and emptied his apartment before leaving WA, trying to control the outcome, hoping he got away undetected.

I must have missed this can you provide a link to him emptying his apartment? If he did make an attempt to do this he sure left a lot of seemingly incriminating items there that were seized as stated in the search warrant.

 

[U.N. Known]

It is a bit odd that LE made a point to note the underlining in the book but were vague about the book itself. Further along the list, a "Criminal Psychology" textbook is also itemized and named (#31 on the list).

More than one book was seized, I'm assuming from BKs' room. It's possible that BK had book marked page 118 so it stood out to LE. For all anyone knows, there could be other "underlining" within BKs' texts and writings that might be equally suspicious just not disclosed to anyone. Not yet anyway.

Let's assume for a minute that there isn't definitive evidence that BK was involved (the rest of this is moot if there is). Do you think they will attempt to use information in the books to tie him to the case? If so, would the defense try to have it excluded as prejudicial considering that everyone with a similar academic history would have the same type of reading material? I wonder the same thing with some of his (likely) Internet searches, at least any that aren't directly tied to the crime.

 

[Justice101]

Personally, I think there are many people (including people who have committed crimes) who get exceptionally anxious, panicked even, and focus very closely on elements they think they can control.

BK is not a reasonable person in the first place. He has highly disordered thinking (IMO). He had every reason to try and delay what happened to him, and therefore, to try and keep his DNA from investigators. He originally thought maybe he had "gotten away with it." But once they announced they were looking for a white Hyundai (regardless of age), he knew he was on LE radar. He is not unintelligent.

I think he did *not* think that he'd be noticed, at least when he was in his planning stage. His plan was to leave as little DNA was possible and use the ruse that he had simply been to the house for a party. But, he leaves behind the sheath. Just like he forgot to coax data out of his "subjects" for his master's thesis. It's actually really common among criminals, but also among ordinary, minor wrong-doers. They think they're smarter than LE (etc).

BK did not want his parents implicated, he didn't want them embarrassed. So he did his best, as he had done since childhood, to be a good kid and to cover his tracks.

He couldn't help working with the trash, because it was the only thing he could do and that's how most people (not just criminals) think. IMO.

BK is the anxious but stoic type; he never "meant" to do what he did (in his mind) and afterwards, he tried the "I didn't mean to; I can fix this" strategy.

IMO.

10ofRods....VERY WELL STATED!