4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 74

[BeginnerSleuther]

I'm not sure about that yet but it is a possibility.
Is it also a possibility that transfer DNA could have still been present in any part of him?
Is that what concerned him?
Victim DNA?
He used his vehicle to allegedly carry out his alleged crime...a single cell of a victim's dNA could possibly have a presence in one of his belongings?

Sure, it's possible. But I'm just not sure that explains his behavior. His behavior actually seems consistent with who he was, IMO. But it's possible.

 

[veronica.mars]

So glad you asked because I've been down the rabbit hole seeking that answer and I started with what was collected in the search warrant, specifically the book with underlining on "page 118"

I searched books of significance on page 118 and came to the book Fahrenheit 451. I started reading it but not from page 1 but 118 and I had no idea what the book was even but I'll list the page numbers I screenshotted in the order I was them and IMO its a blueprint to BK's evolution past to present day, I'm still not totally convinced he didn't purposely leave his DNA on the snap to the ongoing his DNA was not in the system he was testing the limits in which he could push.

But please give these page numbers in Fahrenheit 451 a read and give me your thoughts and opinion on if there's any relevance to what we know about BK and if what we know parallels the pages in the book at all.


Pg 133 (BK's clean up process IMO)
Pg 134
Pg 135
Pg 136
Pg 144
Pg 145
Pg 146
Pg 147
Pg 148
Pg 149 last paragraph and pg 150 first paragraph is so gripping and IMO is what BK was seeking and who's to say he wasn't doing this before the murders in Moscow

Pg 155
Pg 158

Can you share the screen shots? Thanks!

 

[Cool Cats]

But LE had a million ways to get his DNA and he would have had to have known that.
They originally got it via his parents' rubbish.
He knew the possibilities, how could he not have?

Did he take the same pains in his apartment and in his office, his vehicle, his everything?
why did he not hide himself if the object of the exercise, in futility imo, was to occlude his own dNA from everything while still living in a shared home with his parents?

Right. He knew they could get it via his parent's rubbish so he had to keep his DNA out of it.

For them to get DNA from his apartment or office or car they needed probable cause to search those places. They do not need probable cause to search through a person's trash, thus he had to keep his DNA out of it.

He didn't know for sure they would link his dad's DNA to an online genetic testing company. Once they did, they had enough probable cause for their Search Warrants, enough probable cause to do a buccal swab on him.

Trash DNA led to his arrest, thus, he was keeping his trash in baggies and dumping it at the neighbors.

2 Cents

 

[kittythehare]

Right. He knew they could get it via his parent's rubbish so he had to keep his DNA out of it.

For them to get DNA from his apartment or office or car they needed probable cause to search those places. They do not need probable cause to search through a person's trash, thus he had to keep his DNA out of it.

The point i'm making is that he must have known that they could get it via his parents' DNA which is what they did.

 

[WingsOverTX]

I might also note that while he was "apparently" sorting his trash from family trash, maybe he was really sorting compostables from recyclables that accidentally got in the trash from real trash. I don't say that is the actual case, but I know some odd people who would do EXACTLY that and after their parents fell asleep so as to either "not make them feel bad" or not show their parents how OCD they are about those things. I can't tell you how many people I have seen rummage through the trash to get that recyclable can in there. Without gloves.

Having already seen the conclusions some reporters have put in their articles that aren't exactly factual, but aren't disproven either, I have to reserve judgement until someone says exactly what went in the individual baggies. Did every baggie have ONLY his trash? OK, that points to trying to hide his trash. Did each baggie have a different type of trash, some of which was not his? Then that could point to a different goal.

Moo.

I'm beginning to wonder about OUR trash obsession. BK is turning - all? most? a few? - of us OCD (or bringing out that natural tendency).

I want to see evidence photos!

LOL

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Agreed, also lets not forget there is a three hour time difference between his parents house and Pullman Wa, so it prob only felt like 10:30pm to BCK

And imo ime being a total night owl myself, 10:30 pm is early (my preferred dinner time, but I don't let myself do it often) and 1:30 am the party is getting started. Left unchecked, and on most weekend night, I can hit 4:30 a.m. without realizing it.

How does him doing it already convince you it was to hide DNA though? If anything, that would convince me it's a personal quirk if he was doing it before.

Agreed. There are people with some real OCD quirks who aren't murderers but still obsess about touching normal things, eating food that is the wrong color, storing things certain ways, etc., etc.

You said it was based on 9 things and I'm just saying many of those 9 things aren't unusual at all in this individual. Everything I posted could be true and he could still be guilty. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. But using those things as the reason some are convinced he's guilty is what I'm objecting to. BK could absolutely be the murderer and yet, the same behaviors you outlined he could have been doing last year. JMO.

He's a night owl, so he's still dressed at 1:30 and doing chores. He's going through and separating trash for any number of reasons -- possibly drugs, possibly eating disorder (this is actually very typical ED behavior, though I haven't seen evidence he has one), possibly he doesn't want his parents to know something he's putting in the trash, etc. He's wearing gloves while digging through trash. I'd be concerned if he wasn't wearing gloves while digging through trash because that's just gross. None of this (even all of it together) paint a picture for me, given what we know about him. I think it's entirely possible that none of the above is related to the murders. MOO.

Exactly imo jmo. The logic being applied in retrospect and interpreting things as ominous proof is just a whole lot o' logical fallacy hitting the fan. None of the behaviors on a standalone basis are proof of anything close to homicidal maniac. He may be a homicidal maniac, but separating garbage and staying up late and refusing to touch things isn't proof of it imo jmo.

Also, imo jmo putting items into separate baggies would actually draw more attention rather than less. If I were his neighbor and I opened my garbage can to find little plastic packets of stuff, I would know I didn't put them there, and I'd be much more curious about who did put them there because weird, right? Same thing if I were driving the garbage truck. OTOH, if I opened my garbage and saw a bunch of stuff just thrown on top, I'd just think some jerk was freeloading on my garbage bill. If BK were trying to hide things, drawing attention to them in little packages was not the way to go.

 

[Cool Cats]

The point i'm making is that he must have known that they could get it via his parents' DNA which is what they did.

He did NOT know that LE had his DNA to compare it to his parents.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Why would he know that? His parent's DNA is useless without his own DNA to compare it to.

In fact, LE can't get DNA search warrants unless they have something to compare the DNA to.

He didn't necessarily know that LE would link his dad's DNA to his DNA via an online genetic testing company.

LE had DNA on the sheath, and once they linked BK in other ways, getting his or his parents' DNA (to link either mitochondrial or y) was the easiest way to link to BK. Once they had probable cause to arrest, they had BK's DNA. It looks like they did get a warrant to go through the family trash, and that's different than a DNA warrant to take DNA from a person.

How did investigators use DNA profiling to identify the suspect in the Idaho student killings?

Newly released court filings explain how authorities zeroed in on their suspect in the killing of four Idaho college students with DNA analysis.

www.usatoday.com

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/05/1147112440/idaho-murders-suspect-charged-bryan-kohberger

edited to add add'l detail.

 

[Cool Cats]

LE had DNA on the sheath, and once they linked BK in other ways, getting his parents' DNA (either mitochondrial or y) was the easiest way to link to BK. Once they had probable cause to arrest, they had BK's DNA. And they didn't need a warrant to get the parents' DNA off of a piece of tossed trash.

https://www.npr.org/2023/01/05/1147112440/idaho-murders-suspect-charged-bryan-kohberger

I specifically posted that LE did NOT need a Search Warrant to look for DNA in Bryan's trash and this is why Bryan needed to keep his DNA out of his trash.

Bryan did not know that LE had his DNA to compare it to his parents. His parent's DNA was useless without his to compare it to.

 

[U.N. Known]

while he was "apparently" sorting his trash from family trash

That apparently keeps rearing its head. There is no explanation of why the person interviewed (forget his name and title) believed that is what BK was doing.

• I don't believe he was standing passively in the kitchen while/after the SWAT team bashed in his parents' windows and doors.
• If he was indeed in the kitchen, did they ask him or his parents who left the trash or what that person was doing with it, Or did they make an assumption?

 

[Cool Cats]

That apparently keeps rearing its head. There is no explanation of why the person interviewed (forget his name and title) believed that is what BK was doing.

• I don't believe he was standing passively in the kitchen while/after the SWAT team bashed in his parents' windows and doors.
• If he was indeed in the kitchen, did they ask him or his parents who left the trash or what that person was doing with it, Or did they make an assumption?

Interesting point.

If someone is bashing doors and windows and you are innocent of a crime you go running to see what is going on, you have no idea. You are pretty shook up.

If you are guilty you know why they are coming for you and you wait for them, calmly, which is what Bryan did, waited for them in the kitchen with his "trash" baggies, apparently like everything was normal.

2 Cents

 

[kittythehare]

He did NOT know that LE had his DNA to compare it to his parents.

He would have known that a DNA sample left at the scene could identify him via his parents' DNA is the point. He must have studied DNA .
They had his DNA from button on sheath.
They had his parents' DNA from rubbish testing.

There was no point in him trying to hide his own DNA when his parents' DNA matched sample found on sheath.
Ergo, no point in hiding his own rubbish without also hiding his parents' rubbish.

If he did not know they had his DNA he was going to an awful lot of ridiculous trouble to hide it.
It's not rocket science.

A Science Odyssey:Resources: Camp-in Curriculum: Genetics

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I specifically posted that LE did NOT need a Search Warrant to look for DNA in Bryan's trash and this is why Bryan needed to keep his DNA out of his trash.

Bryan did not know that LE had his DNA to compare it to his parents. His parent's DNA was useless without his to compare it to.

I searched, and PA does have higher expectation of privacy and warrant was a good idea.

why risk having the evidence excluded when you can get a warrant and seal the deal imo jmo. WA is the same way.

and while BK didn't know that LE had his DNA, that's a moot point. LE knew it. And who knows why BK was hiding his garbage. Could be because he's weird. Could be because he left a leather sheath on a bed. Could be both. Could be neither. Could be eating disorder or OCD or drugs or just a bizarre hobby. IDK.

Search and seizure law in Pennsylvania - Wikipedia :

The law of search and seizure in Pennsylvania is controlled by both the United States Constitution and the broader protections of the Pennsylvania Constitution. This article is concerned only with the protections provided by the Pennsylvania Constitution.

Overview[edit]​

Police officers and other law enforcement officials are limited in the means of investigation that they may utilize. That is, the law limits the ways in which police officers can investigate and arrest a person suspected of a crime. In the event a law enforcement official violates these rules, evidence obtained may be suppressed, which essentially means that the prosecution may not use the evidence in court to convict a defendant of the crime charged. Successful suppression of evidence often means the prosecution will not be able to make out the charges, and the defendant gets to go home. This article provides an overview summary of some of the major topics in Pennsylvania search and seizure jurisprudence.

Relationship between the U.S. Constitution and the Pennsylvania Constitution[edit]​

The US Supreme Court's interpretation of the Fourth Amendment do not control the Pennsylvania Supreme Court's interpretation of the protections under Article I § 8 of the Pennsylvania Constitution. See, e.g., Commonwealth v. Edmunds, 586 A.2d 887 (1991). In fact, Federal Fourth Amendment decisions establish the constitutional floor, but Pennsylvania is free to offer heightened protections to her citizens.[1]

The "Reasonable Expectation" of Privacy[edit]​

In order for a person to receive protection under Article I § 8 (and the Fourth Amendment), (1) that person must have exhibited a subjective, expectation of privacy and (2) that expectation must be one that society is prepared to recognize as reasonable. See Katz v. United States, 389 U.S. 347 (1967); Commonwealth v. Lowery, 451 A.2d 245 (Pa. Super. Ct. 1982). It is the Defendant's burden to establish his or her privacy interest; after the privacy interest is established, the Commonwealth then needs to show that the subject evidence was not illegally obtained. Commonwealth v. Millner, 888 A.2d 680 (Pa. 2005); Commonwealth v. Perea, 791 A.2d 427 (Pa. Super. Ct. 2002).

 

[Auntie Cipation]

He would have known that a DNA sample left at the scene could identify him via his parents' DNA is the point. He must have studied DNA .
They had his DNA from button on sheath.
They had his parents' DNA from rubbish testing.

There was no point in him trying to hide his own DNA when his parents' DNA matched sample found on sheath.
Ergo, no point in hiding his own rubbish without also hiding his parents' rubbish.

If he did not know they had his DNA he was going to an awful lot of ridiculous trouble to hide it.
It's not rocket science.

A Science Odyssey:Resources: Camp-in Curriculum: Genetics

JMO he certainly knew he had left the sheath at the crime scene, but he may have thought it didn't hold any of his DNA. Of course he should have/might have assumed some of his DNA had been found at the scene, but he equally might have convinced himself he managed to not leave any trace. MOO

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

JMO he certainly knew he had left the sheath at the crime scene, but he may have thought it didn't hold any of his DNA. Of course he should have/might have assumed some of his DNA had been found at the scene, but he equally might have convinced himself he managed to not leave any trace. MOO

It is also possible that the two things aren't connected (post hoc ergo propter hoc) and he has always had weird obsessions. We just don't know the reason, but we do know that in his past, he's exhibited some "quirkiness".

Post hoc ergo propter hoc - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Cool Cats]

He would have known that a DNA sample left at the scene could identify him via his parents' DNA is the point. He must have studied DNA .
They had his DNA from button on sheath.
They had his parents' DNA from rubbish testing.

There was no point in him trying to hide his own DNA when his parents' DNA matched sample found on sheath.
Ergo, no point in hiding his own rubbish without also hiding his parents' rubbish.

If he did not know they had his DNA he was going to an awful lot of ridiculous trouble to hide it.
It's not rocket science.

A Science Odyssey:Resources: Camp-in Curriculum: Genetics

He did not know that he left DNA on the sheath. If he knew for sure he still wouldn't know if it was even enough for test comparison.

What he did know is that his car was plastered all over the internet and he was likely scared. He killed 4 people and he can't turn back time now, all he can do is try to act normal and hide his DNA.

Just like he wasn't thinking of road security cameras, cell towers, or his sheath when he left it on the bed, he likely wasn't thinking that LE would collect his parent's DNA and compare it to his.

Even if he thought this was a possibility, I doubt he decided to just give up and make
it easy for LE to obtain his DNA from his trash. His behavior with the trash shows guilt.

He had no reason to hide trash at the neighbors unless he was hiding DNA or hiding incriminating evidence from his crimes. Only a guilty person thinks LE might search their trash. Innocent people do not.

2 Cents

 

[Vegasgrl]

"Item photographed but not taken" This one has me. Why not taken? Too large/heavy? Affixed somehow? It is a loooong list of items taken, so why not this one?

part of the main structure of a home, and/or possibly not distinctively (for sure, after checking)
.... not covered by the warrant?

 

[jepop]

I specifically posted that LE did NOT need a Search Warrant to look for DNA in Bryan's trash and this is why Bryan needed to keep his DNA out of his trash.

Bryan did not know that LE had his DNA to compare it to his parents. His parent's DNA was useless without his to compare it to.

Yes, there is no search warrant listed on the PA Courts webpage for the Rubbish Bins that are specifically placed on the street for collection. Therefore, PA LE or the FBI (whoever it was who collected the Kohberger family trash) did not need a warrant to do so IMO. That is, unless there was a warrant and it is still sealed, but I see no rational reason why that would be the case. MOO

Commonwealth v. Kohberger 682 MD 2022 | Cases of Public Interest | News & Statistics | Unified Judicial System of Pennsylvania

Edited grammar

 

[kittythehare]

He did not know that he left DNA on the sheath. If he knew for sure he still wouldn't know if it was even enough for test comparison.

What he did know is that his car was plastered all over the internet and he was likely scared. He killed 4 people and he can't turn back time now, all he can do is try to act normal and hide his DNA.

Just like he wasn't thinking of road security cameras, cell towers, or his sheath when he left it on the bed, he likely wasn't thinking that LE would collect his parent's DNA and compare it to his.

Even if he thought this was a possibility, I doubt he decided to just give up and make
it easy for LE to obtain his DNA from his trash. His behavior with the trash shows guilt.

2 Cents

The affidavit released Thursday said a tan leather knife sheath with U.S. Marine Corps insignia was found on the bed next to one of the victims. Investigators located a single source of male DNA on the button snap of the knife’s sheath, according to the affidavit.

Investigators in December took trash from Mr. Kohberger’s family home in Pennsylvania and sent it to a crime lab in Idaho, which identified a family DNA match, the affidavit said.

Police Say DNA, Video Tie Bryan Kohberger to University of Idaho Killings

The man accused of killing four University of Idaho students appeared Thursday in Idaho court.

www.wsj.com

It wouldn't have worked.

 

[schooling]

8PM PT - 5AM PT

The only times of the day where people think that BK is just really unlucky and 50 coincidences and the universe all lined up against him.

Yes, a Powerball winning ticket odds of coincidences. Nothing is what it seems.

EVERYONE takes the trash out at 1:30am in individual plastic bags wearing gloves and just happen to be suspects in double murders where their DNA was found at the scene and a car like there's caught on video and their cell phone evidence lined up and they were pulled over near the house at the crack of done months prior oh and also don't forget the other times in the neighborhood creepily late night! [catches breath]

All coincidences!

IMO