Not the PCA—it was the document saying what LE took from his apartment. Item 2 was “
2: Walmart receipt with one Dickies tag”
However, Dickies makes a number of different things, I believe, so we don’t know what he had bought.
4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 76
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Not the PCA—it was the document saying what LE took from his apartment. Item 2 was “
2: Walmart receipt with one Dickies tag”
However, Dickies makes a number of different things, I believe, so we don’t know what he had bought.
Dickies does make tons of stuff. The online Walmart site shows in addition to coveralls, they carry Dickies' work shirts/pants, jeans, belts, socks, t-shirts, overalls, jackets, scrubs, shorts, hoodies, chef's jackets, and more. So I don't think we have a clue about what he bought.Not the PCA—it was the document saying what LE took from his apartment. Item 2 was “
2: Walmart receipt with one Dickies tag”
However, Dickies makes a number of different things, I believe, so we don’t know what he had bought.
JMO
However, I think that LE knows what he bought, now! Of course, if it’s something irrelevant, we’ll probably never hear it mentioned again.
formerlyme
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Parents of slain Idaho student Ethan Chapin speak out for 1st time
The family of slain University of Idaho student Ethan Chapin is speaking out to ABC News.
IDK, someone might have said that but there is nomention of a Dickie's clothing receipt in the PCA. It's possible that that person may have been thinking of the return of inventory from the search of BK's appartment in WA? A dickies receipt is mentioned but no coveralls are mentioned. There has been a lot of discussion about what BK may have been wearing here on these threads though (IMO), which is continuing right now!
Last page of below for return of inventory for BK appt in WA.
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gliving
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Yes, an example of DNA transfer taken from info provided by our verified expert. I agree it's very far-fetched but I also provided links where it did indeed happen.
As to the Zebra diagnosis, when BK was named as a possible culprit I thought, "wow, I never saw that one coming". Previously, we'd came up with a multitude of possible scenarios involving the frats, the grub truck crowd, ex-boyfriends, sororities, a local creeper, drug deals, etc, so hearing it was a PhD candidate from another town seemed Zebra-ish to me. <moo>
Megnut
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IMO circumstantial evidence also comprises missing evidence.
If LE found a receipt for purchase and a corresponding hang tag for that purchase and LE can't find the item itself and BK can't account for it, that's pretty compelling.
And if that item in any way is corroborated by DM's eye witness account, that's even more compelling.
What would be equally compelling is if LE had clear enough CCTV images to show BK traveling in one direction wearing clothing of one color and traveling in another direction in another color.
JMO
If LE found a receipt for purchase and a corresponding hang tag for that purchase and LE can't find the item itself and BK can't account for it, that's pretty compelling.
And if that item in any way is corroborated by DM's eye witness account, that's even more compelling.
What would be equally compelling is if LE had clear enough CCTV images to show BK traveling in one direction wearing clothing of one color and traveling in another direction in another color.
JMO
But isn't the issue that if the jury finds reasonable doubt about the touch DNA, then they have nothing to place BK in the house (remember, we are just going off of what we know at this time in the PCA).
So that leaves the jury with the evidence of the video of a car passing by the house several times that night - a car that matches the kind of car that BK drives, but there is no video of who was in the car, nor the license plate. Also, the data from the cell phone remains, but we know there will be expert witnesses on both sides with their interpretation of the accuracy of the telecommunications data.
And with regard to DM's testimony, my sense is that it is so vague that it will not be strong enough to place BK at the crime scene, and will lead to reasonable doubt on this testimony as possible evidence.
JMO so far with what we know.
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Ever since @10ofRods explained how DNA can remain even after a laundry cycle, I've been a little iffy on the DNA. Assuming BK used a laundromat to wash his clothes, I'm wondering if his DNA could have been in a washer that someone later used.
DNA Can Be Innocently Transferred Through a Load of Laundry
DNA testing has come a long way and is now more sensitive than ever. There is a new study showing that DNA can be transferred through laundry. Learn more.www.bhwlawfirm.com
His DNA could be on someone else's clothes - but how anyone could ever find that DNA, I don't know. Finding the washing machine itself would be easier (but it's not a useful investigation technique in any case, as the DNA of a bunch of different people will be in the same machine's innards and there's an innocent explanation for BK's DNA being in several different machines).
OTOH, the amount of DNA another student would get on, say, their shirts or underwear or sheets, would be miniscule. It would then transfer in even smaller amounts to their own body parts. If the idea is to claim that BK's DNA could get on the knife snap in sufficient quantities to provide a full profile, well, that's never been observed or happened in any scientific setting. And, in fact, I'm guessing that when the knife is retested (and I assume it will be or has been), there will be even more BK DNA on it, in the porous leather (which is very hard to explain by anything other than someone handling it, as the oils in the fingers assist in moving human DNA into the leather). This same transfer event should include the DNA of many other student as well, as there is no one washing machine that only BK uses, IMO.
Leather objects preserve the DNA of the maker as well, in most cases (as well as the bovine who provided the skin). So one would expect some stranger DNA on the sheath, of which the defense will attempt to make a very big deal.
The DNA on the snap came from someone touching the snap with their fingers, IMO, and therefore the amount of the DNA on the snap should be quite large and consistent it with it being epithelial cells. And if DNA from workers are found, there should be enough to test (and consistent with the ethnicity of the people who made the knife sheath; Ka-Bar sheaths are made in Mexico, in one region). I am guessing there's more BK DNA on the other side of the snap (and no one else's). It's also possible that there's no other human DNA on the leather besides BK's, as well (if the workers wore gloves and masks, which they may well have done).
IMO.
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Still no sources mentioned for the sheath going to Texas. The story certainly has legs now, though.
IMO.
maskedwoman
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Yes, I read that article too. But, the example given in both articles was the same: DNA being transferred from one garment to another within a single load of laundry. That makes sense to me and, imo jmo, has a much higher statistical probability than having BK's DNA left behind in a washer and deposited in the next person's laundry, and that person just happens to actually be the killer.
Or for an even more exotic scenario, that BK's DNA lingered in a public machine through numerous loads washed by different people, to finally be deposited on a load the killer did, and the killer somehow transferred BK's DNA from his/her clothes to the sheath just before he/she committed the murders. IMO, one of us is more likely to win the lottery. MOOooo and would love to hear 10ofRods (or someone else with a good statistical mind) thoughts on how possible either scenario might be.
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I think that scenario is very unlikely, as then it would not be single source DNA as reported in the PCA. The person depositing the DNA on the snap would leave their own DNA (as well as DNA from all the other people who used that same washing machine recently). No washing machines would have just BK's DNA in it. The deposit had to be done before the murders, as well. So it was all ordinary loads of washing.
The odds of another person washing their clothes immediately after BK washing his, themselves wearing gloves and a mask all throughout their laundry process (!), are very remote. Because that person would get their DNA on the sheath, too.
But they didn't.
I believe that the cells from which the snap DNA came were in the groove around the edge of the snap (and would be found in adequate amounts in the nearby leather, which cannot be tested without destroying that bit of leather). I believe it took many (let's say more than 20) openings and shuttings of the snap with an ungloved finger or thumb to leave that DNA.
Just keep in mind that every washing machine would have DNA from the various people who used it - never just BK's. No way for someone without expensive scientific equipment right there in the laundry room to be able to extract just BK's DNA from a washing machine (and why someone would even try that, is beyond me). Someone attempting to extract just one person's DNA from their own previously washed clothing would need an entire lab and, IMO, full access to said lab such as given only to forensic investigators and professors engaged in research, IMO. DNA processing labs are in special rooms with negative pressure and all of that, otherwise even more random DNA would be entering the study area.
Someone sneaking into such a lab at night with their laundry is absurd to me, but again, it would have to be someone who knows how to extra DNA (and they could not possibly have known whose DNA it was from this procedure - in that case, BK's DNA would be randomly chosen, replicated, and put on the sheath by a mad scientist).
IMO. And this is why the other evidence is equally important - although I know people love arcane theories, this one is beyond my own threshold of belief.
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WA has a higher expectation of privacy (no road blocks, vehicle search exception doesn't apply, etc for ex) and the courts aren't especially playful. Even with garbage, lots of throw down. Until LE had the warrant to search his apartment, it would sure be iffy imo jmo. That said, I could not find a specific doorknob/frame case, but if I were spitballing based on what I know about WA, they'd need the warrant imo jmo. Even without focusing on door knob, the door itself might be considered private property because it is attached to his home (this is how I'd guess the court might see it), but that's imo jmo without research.
editing to add:
imo jmo BK won't be required to account for missing purchases because he probably won't testify. So that leaves LE with a SKU from the tag and from that and receipts/store records, LE will know what item was purchased. If it's 7 KABAR knives, I'd consider that compelling, but LE not being able to match it to a piece of clothing - a whole lot less compelling imo jmo. And I think it is very important to remember that the State has to prove the case BARD, the defense only has to poke holes in that.
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Megnut
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Can we be certain BK didn't re-enter the house later that same morning? Maybe he couldn't go back into the bedroom on the third floor without creating more footprints but he was able to wipe up footprints in the hallway?
You wouldn't think a person would do something so chancey but then you wouldn't think a person would enter a populated apartment-house to slay one (or some) of tge occupants.
To me, that's a person who thrives on the level risk, doesn't perceive risk or be deterred by it or perceived the risk but had the raw desire to override it.
If he had the need, desire, compulsion to return to the location of the crime, what could possibly impel him from entering into the crime scene?
It's a reach, but so was the scope of his crime.
JMO
You wouldn't think a person would do something so chancey but then you wouldn't think a person would enter a populated apartment-house to slay one (or some) of tge occupants.
To me, that's a person who thrives on the level risk, doesn't perceive risk or be deterred by it or perceived the risk but had the raw desire to override it.
If he had the need, desire, compulsion to return to the location of the crime, what could possibly impel him from entering into the crime scene?
It's a reach, but so was the scope of his crime.
JMO
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Well, we don't know that there isn't other DNA on the sheath at all. We only that that this particular source of DNA on the snap was single source. But there could have been other DNA on the sheath. I think we have all speculated that there almost certainly was blood on the sheath.
Sheesh @10ofRods I appreciate this informative post. Hoping it will be ok to add here that you had me LOLing (in a good appreciative way) with some of those dry comments. I know these are serious topics and it is a good thing to explore their relevance but want to say thank you for the much needed belly laugh. MOO
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Quote from article, there are plenty more confirming this
He submitted his application to the police department at some point during the fall semester, when he took his first semester of classes at WSU after graduating from DeSales University with a master’s degree in psychology and cloud-based forensics in June 2022.
Idaho murders: Bryan Kohberger applied for internship at Pullman Police Department in fall 2022
Brian Kohberger, the criminology Ph.D. student accused of stabbing four University of Idaho students to death in November, applied for an internship in the fall with the local police department in Pullman, Washington, according to a newly released probable cause affidavit.www.q13fox.com
When the degree is announced at graduation, don't they just call out the degree awarded, not the specific majors? So, for example, chemistry and biology majors could both receive a Bachelor's of Science. Business would cover accounting, finance, marketing, etc. imo jmo
editing to say see @NCWatcher response below
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maskedwoman
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Thank you! I didn't even think about the ability to identify BK's DNA. The odds just get worse and worse, it seems.
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rsbm for focus
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett-Payne.pdf pg 7
After reviewing the numerous observations of Suspect Vehicle 1, the forensic examiner initially believed that Suspect Vehicle 1 was a 20ll-2013 Hyundai Elantra. Upon further review, he indicated it could also be a 2011-2016 Hyundai Elantra. As a result, investigators have been reviewing information on persons in possession of a vehicle that is a 2011-2016 white Hyundai Elantra.
Questions I suspect the defense will be asking: How long after the 2011-2013 determination were the dates extended to include 2016 and why did that change and why was the never communicated to the public? that's just jmo imo
that is, imo jmo, exactly the case. ICBW. Without it, they have got a car that looks like his (but was initially misidentified, but I can't tell you the differences between the models cc: @Montecore1), no license plate, no photo of him in the car, etc., so I'm no Mona Lisa Vito, but I see some room for doubts to be raised re the car esp. There is also a vague description from someone who was in a 'frozen shock phase'. imo jmo less compelling. So much depends on the evidence to come from both sides, and we just don't have much... jmo imo... I could come up with things that would blow this out of the water, but that's all assumption, speculation, supposition, and some big TOS violations.
And of course, the model years originally cited by LE do not match up. From the PCA:
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett-Payne.pdf pg 7
After reviewing the numerous observations of Suspect Vehicle 1, the forensic examiner initially believed that Suspect Vehicle 1 was a 20ll-2013 Hyundai Elantra. Upon further review, he indicated it could also be a 2011-2016 Hyundai Elantra. As a result, investigators have been reviewing information on persons in possession of a vehicle that is a 2011-2016 white Hyundai Elantra.
Questions I suspect the defense will be asking: How long after the 2011-2013 determination were the dates extended to include 2016 and why did that change and why was the never communicated to the public? that's just jmo imo
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