4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 76

[NCWatcher]

When the degree is announced at graduation, don't they just call out the degree awarded, not the specific majors? So, for example, chemistry and biology majors could both receive a Bachelor's of Science. Business would cover accounting, finance, marketing, etc. imo jmo

Not necessarily. Depends on the school. Some schools might call out BA, BS, BN, BM etc. (Business could be a BA or a BS in the US) Other schools might do it differently. Usually large schools don't call out names of students at a university-wide ceremony or it would last all day.
JMO

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Can we be certain BK didn't re-enter the house later that same morning? Maybe he couldn't go back into the bedroom on the third floor without creating more footprints but he was able to wipe up footprints in the hallway?

imo jmo we can't even be certain he entered the house the first time, but in daylight with a crime to be discovered at any time, it would have been beyond risky to return. And it seems like DM and BF would've heard him jmo imo...

IDK how long it would take to clean dried blood and footprints from the floor, but seems like it would take more than a few minutes. idk jmo imo.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Not necessarily. Depends on the school. Some schools might call out BA, BS, BN, BM etc. (Business could be a BA or a BS in the US) Other schools might do it differently. Usually large schools don't call out names of students at a university-wide ceremony or it would last all day.
JMO

thx, I couldn't remember. the terror of being on a stage in front of so many people... that's all I could focus on.

 

[10ofRods]

Well, we don't know that there isn't other DNA on the sheath at all. We only that that this particular source of DNA on the snap was single source. But there could have been other DNA on the sheath. I think we have all speculated that there almost certainly was blood on the sheath.

Exactly.

However, there has to be SOME other DNA on the sheath (even if not BK's). The cow itself had DNA. And I really can't imagine that some sample of the leather won't be taken at some time (after the Prelim). My very strong hypothesis is that more human DNA will be found on the sheath - both on the snap and the other use points, and in the leather itself.

It seems almost certain there was blood on the sheath (and that would have been post-tanning of the leather, so easily swabbed and tested; I assume this has already been done).

If yet another party's DNA was found on the surface of the sheath, we won't learn that until the Prelim.

My whole point is that there is almost certainly more DNA on the sheath (and everywhere else at the murder scene). And BK's own DNA will be in his car. That's nearly certain.

But there was just BK's DNA in the sample taken from the use point on the sheath. That is and was my point. Naturally, I am aware that more DNA could be on the sheath.

 

[10ofRods]

Not necessarily. Depends on the school. Some schools might call out BA, BS, BN, BM etc. (Business could be a BA or a BS in the US) Other schools might do it differently. Usually large schools don't call out names of students at a university-wide ceremony or it would last all day.
JMO

If you watch the DeSales graduation, they are calling out degree and certificate names for each candidate.

IMO. They called out the name and degree of every person who walked the stage (you have to find the full version on the media thread - most Youtubers have cut it down to just 11 seconds of BK - without even the announcement of his name).

IMO. He was announced, IIRC, as Bachelor's in Psychology and Master's in Criminal Justice. Not criminology, not cloud forensics, but Criminal Justice.

DeSales doesn't have a degree in criminology in any case. They have their list of degrees on their website.

IMO.

 

[maskedwoman]

When the degree is announced at graduation, don't they just call out the degree awarded, not the specific majors? So, for example, chemistry and biology majors could both receive a Bachelor's of Science. Business would cover accounting, finance, marketing, etc. imo jmo

editing to say see @NCWatcher response below

I don't remember for sure. It's been 30 years since I graduated, so I just barely remember walking across the stage. I was able to confirm that he had a Psychology degree from Northampton Community College and his Masters was Criminal Justice. The second article even describes the content of the classes included in the major. The 3rd link shows DeSales descriptions of the variations on the Masters degrees in Criminal Justice that they offer. None of them are for Cloud Forensics. They have a CounterTerrorism Digital Forensics degree, which sounds both terrifying and interesting. From what I read, digital forensics and cloud forensics are different

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/30/us/bryan-kohberger-idaho-killings-suspect/index.html#:~:text=A%20spokesperson%20for%20Northampton%20Community,and%20Psychology%20degree%20in%202018.

When a Criminology Student Turns Criminal

The man accused of murdering four University of Idaho students was pursuing a Ph.D. in criminology. Academics in his field say it’s a mistake to connect his scholarship to the brutal crime.

cina.gmu.edu

Master of Arts in Criminal Justice (MCJ)

www.desales.edu

 

[10ofRods]

imo jmo we can't even be certain he entered the house the first time, but in daylight with a crime to be discovered at any time, it would have been beyond risky to return. And it seems like DM and BF would've heard him jmo imo...

IDK how long it would take to clean dried blood and footprints from the floor, but seems like it would take more than a few minutes. idk jmo imo.

Frankly, the idea of him wiping or cleaning the prints is patently absurd to me. He wasn't in the house long enough. Further, he would have smeared the tread print and yet LE says they have a footprint of a Van-like shoe.

How he would have known WHERE to clean the invisible (latent) prints, I have no clue. He would have needed to clean the entire stairway and the two hallways. While holding his knife, as he had misplaced his sheath. He would have had to bring cleaning agents with him (I find it absurd to picture him rummaging under the sink at 1122 King for paper towels and windex or whatever - in such a short time).

Since I've never heard of any investigation going straight to Amido black without first using Luminol (another latent print detection system), I assume there were several latent prints. Each one dimmer than the last, because that's the nature of physics and liquids against hard surfaces like floors.

So aside from him not having time, how did he even know where the footprints were? They were latent (invisible) past a certain point. How did he know he wasn't still leaving even more prints? (Because the fluid used to clean would also be detectable and that would now be on his shoe bottoms as well).

IMO. I also think that if any effort had been made to clean the prints, it would have been imperfect but also mentioned in the PCA, as it would be very good evidence of criminal intent and pre-meditation. A mostly cleaned up footprint would not be such good evidence (so I believe the Court was given a valid latent print, it makes no sense to me otherwise).

I think the print will reveal a match for BK's shoe size; the presence of Xana's blood; the speed at which he was walking; his typical gait pattern; the length of each of his toes; the shape of his arch; and the size of his heel bone. If these things do not match BK's actual shoe wear from other shoes, then yeah, the prosecution has a problem.

IMO.

 

[NCWatcher]

If you watch the DeSales graduation, they are calling out degree and certificate names for each candidate.

IMO. They called out the name and degree of every person who walked the stage (you have to find the full version on the media thread - most Youtubers have cut it down to just 11 seconds of BK - without even the announcement of his name).

IMO. He was announced, IIRC, as Bachelor's in Psychology and Master's in Criminal Justice. Not criminology, not cloud forensics, but Criminal Justice.

DeSales doesn't have a degree in criminology in any case. They have their list of degrees on their website.

IMO.

All I could ever find was a clip of the awarding of his masters. In that clip, the degree was announced (master of arts in criminal justice) followed by the announcement of each student name as each walked across the stage. But how graduate degrees are awarded may or may not be how undergraduate degrees are awarded at a particular school. I never saw a clip of the undergrad degree awards but I'll take your word that it was done the same way.

Looking at the clip I have to say his eyebrows didn't look particularly bushy in that.
JMO

 

[10ofRods]

I don't remember for sure. It's been 30 years since I graduated, so I just barely remember walking across the stage. I was able to confirm that he had a Psychology degree from Northampton Community College and his Masters was Criminal Justice. The second article even describes the content of the classes included in the major. The 3rd link shows DeSales descriptions of the variations on the Masters degrees in Criminal Justice that they offer. None of them are for Cloud Forensics. They have a CounterTerrorism Digital Forensics degree, which sounds both terrifying and interesting. From what I read, digital forensics and cloud forensics are different

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/30/us/bryan-kohberger-idaho-killings-suspect/index.html#:~:text=A%20spokesperson%20for%20Northampton%20Community,and%20Psychology%20degree%20in%202018.

When a Criminology Student Turns Criminal

The man accused of murdering four University of Idaho students was pursuing a Ph.D. in criminology. Academics in his field say it’s a mistake to connect his scholarship to the brutal crime.

cina.gmu.edu

Master of Arts in Criminal Justice (MCJ)

www.desales.edu

Excellent info. Which is why I've been saying he cannot have had a degree in cloud forensics (I got too lazy to go look those links up again). In addition to his AA in psychology from community college, I believe they announced a Bachelor's in Psych at his graduation from DeSales (it was reported several places as a co-terminal program, which means the student matriculates into both a bachelor's and a master's program at the same time and takes all the relevant courses in the order that makes most sense for that student).

And yep, no courses in the CJ track on Cloud Forensics. Where I teach, "Cloud Forensics" is a low level introduction to the full program in Digital Forensics.

I do wonder how it was he didn't think to get a burner phone etc. I think he was very far out into the psychological side of criminal studies and maybe didn't know a lot about investigation - more about the minds of killers, is what I'm thinking. He did know enough, apparently, to turn his phone off (or put it in airplane mode). Did he think cell towers existed only in towns? Did he not know there were towns south of Moscow? Was he lost and had to turn his phone back on? I do believe we will eventually know some of this.

IMO.

 

[Cool Cats]

Idaho murder victim’s boyfriend poses with surviving dog and new niece

Grieving family offers glimpse of Kaylee Goncalves’ longtime boyfriend Jack DuCouer’s visit with his dog Murphy to their home in Coeur d’Alene

www.yahoo.com

Mon, April 3, 2023 at 12:42 PM EDT

On Friday, the grieving family offered a glimpse of Kaylee’s longtime boyfriend Jack DuCouer’s visit with his dog Murphy to their home in Coeur d’Alene. The Goldendoodle has been living with Mr DuCouer.

Last month, the Goncalves family announced on the Facebook page that they had created an Amazon wishlist for Murphy at the request of many fans following their life updates. They said at the time that they intended to donate most of the dog toys to their local shelter.

“Jack & Murphy came by tonight and picked out so many nice things. We will be donating the rest to our local animal shelter early next week. Jack also met our sweet MaddieKay tonight, so much love. Much love friends,” the post read.

Although a gag order in place bans family members from speaking about the case with the media, Goncalves’ family have been sharing updates about their life in the aftermath of the unthinkable tragedy on their Facebook page.

Murphy on Instagram: "Miss my Maddie "

38K Likes, 539 Comments - Murphy (@murphy_goncalves) on Instagram: "Miss my Maddie "

www.instagram.com

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I don't remember for sure. It's been 30 years since I graduated, so I just barely remember walking across the stage. I was able to confirm that he had a Psychology degree from Northampton Community College and his Masters was Criminal Justice. The second article even describes the content of the classes included in the major. The 3rd link shows DeSales descriptions of the variations on the Masters degrees in Criminal Justice that they offer. None of them are for Cloud Forensics. They have a CounterTerrorism Digital Forensics degree, which sounds both terrifying and interesting. From what I read, digital forensics and cloud forensics are different

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/30/us/bryan-kohberger-idaho-killings-suspect/index.html#:~:text=A%20spokesperson%20for%20Northampton%20Community,and%20Psychology%20degree%20in%202018.

When a Criminology Student Turns Criminal

The man accused of murdering four University of Idaho students was pursuing a Ph.D. in criminology. Academics in his field say it’s a mistake to connect his scholarship to the brutal crime.

cina.gmu.edu

Master of Arts in Criminal Justice (MCJ)

www.desales.edu

TBC, I'm not arguing for or against b/c I just don't know.

 

[10ofRods]

All I could ever find was a clip of the awarding of his masters. In that clip, the degree was announced (master of arts in criminal justice) followed by the announcement of each student name as each walked across the stage. But how graduate degrees are awarded may or may not be how undergraduate degrees are awarded at a particular school. I never saw a clip of the undergrad degree awards but I'll take your word that it was done the same way.

Looking at the clip I have to say his eyebrows didn't look particularly bushy in that.
JMO

I don't think he ever had "bushy eyebrows," but I do know that's how my students describe men with prominent supraorbital ridges (the torus). Indeed, the few women who have more of a brow bone often describe their actual brows as "busy" when in fact, they just appear more prominent because the bone underneath bulges.



Same woman pre- and post-brow reduction (looks like some chin reduction too and of course a nose job). But my point is that people do not usually say "They have big ole brow bones" instead observers say "Bushy eyebrows" as it is a common phrase for describing very visible brows. In this picture, of course, the woman has groomed her brows.

The second picture is one that I've used in class and people will say the man has "big brows" or "bushy brows." I have to point out that "big brows" is more accurate, but not quite. What they're seeing are more robust brow ridges (that's the proper terminology in regards to the variation in human brow ridges). It makes the eyes look more deep set. In the picture of the man below, his actual brow hairs are normal, but I still get "bushy brows" written down by students:



In the last picture, the brows are indeed a bit hairier, but still not "bushy" (to me). But we have to take into account how the witness uses language - and what I'm saying is that it's possible she uses it the way her age mates elsewhere use it.


This last guy always gets "bushy eyebrows" and "big nose" as his descriptors (and almost no one remembers to add "square ears" or "slightly receding chin" because the first two traits are what fixes their attention and is therefore stored in memory. And indeed, this man's eyebrows are hairier than average.

These are "bushy eyebrows:


And there are men with even bushier eyebrows than that. And cultures that expect men to have them and grow them proudly (I don't think contemporary college age men would allow their brows to get that bushy, IME, IMO).

At any rate, the term "bushy eyebrows" is used ambiguously by most college age students I've encountered.

IMO, IME.

 

[10ofRods]

And here are BK's brows. You can see the larger torus and that his brows are not sleek, but probably slightly more bushy than a Hollywood actor would like to have - but normal. His eyebrows look dark and heavier (especially to the side of his eye) because of his bone structure, not his hairiness.

IMO. But yeah, lots of young women upon seeing this face briefly in the middle of the night, with its lower part masked, would probably go to "bushy eyebrows." The brows are just so unusually prominent (statistically speaking for the modern H. sapiens population, again more common in some parts of the world than others).

IME.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

A couple of questions this morning:

In what circumstances could LE have tried to lift BK’s fingerprints from the outside of his car (door handles, drunk latch, gas tank cover) anytime after they began to zero in in him and before he left for PA? Would a warrant be needed to pull fingerprints from a car in a public parking lot? What about the traffic stops? Could those have been attempts to collect fingerprints? If there were attempts and they didn’t get anything, would that suggest that BK scoured the exterior of his car very carefully in such a way that nobody does unless they have something to hide? The lack of a single print would be an interesting piece of circumstantial evidence.

Same questions for his apt doorknob? And the door frame. I guess I don’t get how the only piece of DNS they got was from a piece of trash in PA.

Second thought (unrelated) - imo jmo re: the timeline of possible SM nexuses- imo BK selected University of Idaho for its program. IMO, after he knew he was going there is when he started trolling SM for whatever purpose- to legitimately find friends/hook ups or something darker. IMO jmo

BBM. Using lack of a print as circumstantial evidence against someone is like asking people to prove a negative. Wouldnt fly, IMO. If there's no print, that's a point in his favor, not a suggestion of guilt.

MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Yes, it could be correct, but WSers have watched his graduation video and his degree was not announced as cloud forensics. He may have had some classes, but not a degree.

Or the WSers may be wrong. Without a link, it's impossible to know for sure, IMO, since the PCA and MSM says different. We all just have to choose what we believe. Personally, I think it's far more believable that the PCA is accurate and the WSer got it wrong than the other way around. That's just me though and you may feel exactly the opposite. I don't think we'll know for sure.

MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

That could be. But if I were him I wouldn't have taken off clothes after entering the house. I'd also think the clothes must have passed for late fall/winter clothes or that would have stood out to DM as she saw enough of his body to give a physical description. Or at least it would have stood out to me in Nov in a colder climate. (But maybe UI students run around in shorts and t-shirts when it's 20°) If he did wear layers though, it would seem those would have obscured his "athletic" build too.
JMO

He also used to run in the middle of the night. I wonder if he wore athletic clothes like he would if he went running, like a performance jacket or something? MOO

 

[maskedwoman]

BBM. Using lack of a print as circumstantial evidence against someone is like asking people to prove a negative. Wouldnt fly, IMO. If there's no print, that's a point in his favor, not a suggestion of guilt.

MOO.

I agree if we're talking about a print on a surface the general public has access to. I don't know that you could call it evidence against him not to find his print on his own car, but I would definitely call it "odd". I suppose it could be presented along with other evidence that he had wiped down "everything" but why remove his own prints off his car? I don't get why anyone would even take the trouble to do that. MOOooo

 

[Cool Cats]

Parents of slain Idaho student Ethan Chapin speak out for 1st time

The parents of 20-year-old Ethan Chapin, one of four University of Idaho students slain in a gruesome attack in November, are speaking out for the first time, opening up to ABC News about their family's healing and their son's legacy. Ethan Chapin was a triplet, born right before his sister...

www.yahoo.com

Mon, April 3, 2023 at 8:01 AM EDT


Ethan Chapin was a triplet, born right before his sister, Maizie, and brother, Hunter, who also attend the University of Idaho.

 

[10ofRods]

DBM

 

[Cool Cats]

I agree if we're talking about a print on a surface the general public has access to. I don't know that you could call it evidence against him not to find his print on his own car, but I would definitely call it "odd". I suppose it could be presented along with other evidence that he had wiped down "everything" but why remove his own prints off his car? I don't get why anyone would even take the trouble to do that. MOOooo

Interesting point.

It can be suspicious to remove your prints off of everything, then it looks like you are deliberately trying to "cover up" a possible crime, or your involvement.

These are the types of suspicious behaviors where the investigator says they "need to look at this."

Same when a suspect lies, it is something they want to look into.

I was following a murder trial where the suspect's suspicious behavior helped LE take a closer look at the suspect but that doesn't mean it becomes hard evidence in court. Not everything ends up as circumstantial evidence in court but many factors spur on investigations.

Cleaning away all your fingerprints can be one, lying is also seen as a huge red flag.

Bleach is another red flag, a sign of blood clean up. Like if Bryan's car has bleach in it. Forensic's testing on his car could turn it up if it is there. There is alot from the searches that will be tested, many items seized and some could produce specific evidence that the prosecution has to turn over to defense for the June Preliminary Hearing.