4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 76

[NCWatcher]

He was in a coterminal program (BA in psych). He might not have attended the undergrad ceremony (most co-terminal students I know do not, they want the fun of getting their grad degree).

//Kohberger already had a bachelor's degree in psychology, and a master's degree in criminal justice from DeSales University in Center Valley, Pennsylvania.//

from:

Bryan Kohberger's high school friends say the accused killer was overweight and bullied

Kohberger is charged with the murders of four University of Idaho students. His study of criminology was an attempt "to understand humans and … himself," according to a friend.

www.cbsnews.com

And I agree his eyebrows don't look "bushy" but to a 20 year old scared young woman trying to explain the prominent brow she saw after learning of the murders of her roommates, that could very well be the word she used (as opposed to an anthropology student, who might say "brow ridge" or something like that) Almost no one distinguishes much between "bushy" and "prominent" brows, especially not younger people. It's something we have to train police to do, at the academy (use better observational language, as they will be required to do throughout their careers).

It will be hard to use DM's testimony at trial, although a skillful prosecutor can walk her through her thinking processes (if she thinks BK's real upper face matches her memory). I really hope they do not put her on the stand, though, as she adds very little to the case and this particular detail will be a sticking point.

IMO.

Ok. I can't find any information using the term coterminal on the DeSales website. I do see a 5-year BA to MA in Criminal Justice though but no undergrad/grad combo with Psyc.

Course-Based Graduation Requirement Forms

www.desales.edu

I also see DeSales offers a forensic track in Psyc with courses like Dangerous Minds: The Psychology of Antisocial Behavior, Psychological Sleuthing, and Trial by Jury. If he earned a Psyc degree, do we know if he did that track?
JMO

 

[veronica.mars]

I don't think that DM will testify that she saw BK in the house, only that she saw a masked person walk by her room. I also think that the defense will likely be able to discredit DM's testimony if the prosecution makes too much of DM's testimony. I don't think most members of a jury in a death penalty case would be willing to convict someone based on the description of "bushy eyebrows" which is somewhat subjective and vague and also could apply to many people. JMO.

Also I could see BK gently grooming his eyebrows before the case.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

The report of the front door open is something we have not gotten an explanation for as far as I know. It could be significant. It shows access to the house for several hours.

Exactly. And what did the roommates hear or see if someone accessed the house in the morning? That may be something LE already knows, but hasn't been released yet. They haven't confirmed or denied that the front door was open.

 

[GGbankster]

So his DNA got left in a washer and then it randomly ended up on the killer's sheath? The sheath of the killer's knife?

OK, so that random connection between BK washing his clothes, makes it to the killer's knife. And then randomly, BK has the same car that is then seen coming and going from the crime scene during the killing? And randomly he turns his cell off during that same time?

And he coincidentally drives back past the crime scene the next morning, BEFORE it is even reported?

It certainly does seem like a lot of unlikely coincidences for all those events to occur in sequence like that. Based on what you just described, it does seem highly improbable for all those connections to have been purely coincidental.

 

[GGbankster]

I've been doing som emental gymnastics on this one. In this context, the only way I can see dna transfer happenning via a public laundromat washing machine is if the ('real') killer used a machine after BK had used it and (a) either washed the sheath in the machine whereupon some BK dna in the machine was transferred onto the snap button of the sheath (Forgive me, I think this is absolutely not what happenned and makes no sense whatsoever but maybe there is a remote possibility); or (b) the unknown/unarrested potential/speculated killer removed his clothes from a machine BK had previously used and got some BK dna on his hands. Or there was some BK dna on some of his clothes. This person then goes home or wherever and transfers this BK dna to the snap button of the sheath via his hands or via a piece of clothing. I'm no expert and I suppose there is this possibility. I'm not sure how such a scenario would be raised at trial but my guess is that if the defense wanted to argue this they would need the testimony of an expert and proof that BK used a public laundromat at the very least. It's not really provable IMO and the jury would have to consider it within the context of other circumstantial evidence presented. If the prosecution brings a strong circumstantial case with other evidence then I can't see it personally. If the prosecution has little else circumstantially tying the alleged killer to the scene it may be an avenue the defense could touch upon. MOO

I understand that you have been exploring various options regarding the DNA transfer in this case. However, it is essential to bear in mind that the scenarios proposed are highly speculative and improbable.

As you pointed out, the defense may try to create doubts about the DNA evidence by considering alternative scenarios. Nevertheless, it is the responsibility of the jury to assess the credibility of such claims against the weight of the prosecution's evidence.

It is also worth noting that for any scenario to be considered, there must be evidence to support it. Currently, there is no solid evidence to back up the possibility of DNA transfer through a communal laundry facility in this case.

 

[flowershop]

Any thoughts about the internal affairs investigation taking place which could potentially impeach the credibility of a witness in this case?

 

[GGbankster]

Any thoughts about the internal affairs investigation taking place which could potentially impeach the credibility of a witness in this case?

Officer in Bryan Kohberger's case implicated in internal affairs probe

Prosecutors have disclosed that a police officer involved in Bryan Kohberger's case is the subject of an 'internal affairs' probe that could affect the Idaho murders suspect's upcoming trial.

www.dailymail.co.uk

It's concerning to hear that there might be potential Brady/Giglio material related to one of the officers involved in the case. It's important that all relevant evidence is disclosed to the defense in order to ensure the integrity of the legal process.

If the prosecution intends to seek the death penalty, it is especially important that they are completely transparent with all evidence in order to avoid any potential issues on appeal.

I understand that this information is confidential and exempt from public disclosures, but I hope that the defense is able to access it in a timely and fair manner. The preliminary hearing on June 26 will likely provide more information on the case and how it will proceed.

 

[al66pine]

Murphy. Young Mr. DuCoeur.

Idaho murder victim’s boyfriend poses with surviving dog and new niece

Grieving family offers glimpse of Kaylee Goncalves’ longtime boyfriend Jack DuCouer’s visit with his dog Murphy to their home in Coeur d’Alene

www.yahoo.com

....
On Friday, the grieving family offered a glimpse of Kaylee’s longtime boyfriend Jack DuCouer’s visit with his dog Murphy to their home in Coeur d’Alene. The Goldendoodle...

snipped for focus. @Cool Cats Thanks for the link & quote.

Is any dog cuter than a Goldendoodle? And Murphy looks esp'ly cute.

BTW, I wonder how often Kaylee's longtime boyfriend has to endure his name being misspelled.

 

[al66pine]

dbm, a duplicate

 

[10ofRods]

Ok. I can't find any information using the term coterminal on the DeSales website. I do see a 5-year BA to MA in Criminal Justice though but no undergrad/grad combo with Psyc.

Course-Based Graduation Requirement Forms

www.desales.edu

I also see DeSales offers a forensic track in Psyc with courses like Dangerous Minds: The Psychology of Antisocial Behavior, Psychological Sleuthing, and Trial by Jury. If he earned a Psyc degree, do we know if he did that track?
JMO

That's what "co-terminal" means. A 5 year program that leads to both a BA (or BS) and an MA (or MS). It works because then a senior capstone project can be eliminated, courses without pre-reqs can be taken when offered (a big deal in these lean times for education) and the student can have until their 5th year to complete the BA requirements for one degree.

We don't know what track he took for the BA, but we do know that he took that one famous professor's class on serial killers (which, I believe, has a similar title to what you mention).

I would guess he has indeed taken that class.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

Also I could see BK gently grooming his eyebrows before the case.

Me too. Indeed, surely he must consider it. But I don't think he has "bushy eyebrows" like the ones shown in my earlier pictures nor do I think most American college women have ever seen anyone with truly bushy eyebrows.

IMO. Today's young men groom themselves, way more than at any earlier time. IMO.

 

[U.N. Known]

View attachment 412746

And here are BK's brows. You can see the larger torus and that his brows are not sleek, but probably slightly more bushy than a Hollywood actor would like to have - but normal. His eyebrows look dark and heavier (especially to the side of his eye) because of his bone structure, not his hairiness.

IMO. But yeah, lots of young women upon seeing this face briefly in the middle of the night, with its lower part masked, would probably go to "bushy eyebrows." The brows are just so unusually prominent (statistically speaking for the modern H. sapiens population, again more common in some parts of the world than others).

IME.

I've been struggling to understand how, considering her door placement in relation to the hall, DM saw the intruder walking toward her and saw his face and build without more than looking out. This photo makes me believe that she noticed him walking in her direction, but saw him in profile. She would have noticed the mask and his eyebrows would have seemed thicker at this angle. That would also contribute to why she could have missed a large knife in the guy's hand.

 

[U.N. Known]

It will be hard to use DM's testimony at trial, although a skillful prosecutor can walk her through her thinking processes (if she thinks BK's real upper face matches her memory). I really hope they do not put her on the stand, though, as she adds very little to the case and this particular detail will be a sticking point.

IMO.

IMO, if they don't clear it up in some other way, she will need to explain the delay in the 911 call. If she does not , I foresee the defense attempting to use that and the early morning visitors to poke holes in the case.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Me too. Indeed, surely he must consider it. But I don't think he has "bushy eyebrows" like the ones shown in my earlier pictures nor do I think most American college women have ever seen anyone with truly bushy eyebrows.

IMO. Today's young men groom themselves, way more than at any earlier time. IMO.

Yes, but we need to keep in mind it's *her* perception, her description. Not what we older people consider to be bushy eyebrows, but her interpretation of such. JMO

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Any thoughts about the internal affairs investigation taking place which could potentially impeach the credibility of a witness in this case?

Lots of thoughts, actually. Although Brady/Giglio can be anything, I have mentally weighted some possibilities more heavily than others re their potential impact imo jmo. I searched the officers on this list and identified Moscow PD and Idaho SP officers:

Idaho Brady List (more info bout list below)

The list is not up-to-date, so I would not focus too much on any of the information. I just thought it was interesting, so I'm sharing it.

"The Brady List is the definitive public-facing database of information about police misconduct, public complaints, use-of-force reports, and more...

This platform is available as-a-service to all Peace Officer Standards & Training [POST] Departments, Prosecutors, and Law Enforcement Organizations [LEOrgs]."

 

[Cool Cats]

IMO, if they don't clear it up in some other way, she will need to explain the delay in the 911 call. If she does not , I foresee the defense attempting to use that and the early morning visitors to poke holes in the case.

I see a lot of objections from the prosecution on cross.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Yes, but we need to keep in mind it's *her* perception, her description. Not what we older people consider to be bushy eyebrows, but her interpretation of such. JMO

And in context with a person described as wearing a mask. If a covid-type mask over nose and mouth, the eyes/eyebrows may have seemed even more noticeable since they were essentially the only visible part of the face. MOO

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

I've said several times that IMO, if the neighbor's report of the front door being open at 8:30 am is true, I suspect BK was back looking for the knife. His phone pinged in the neighborhood around 9 am, but the neighbor's time frame could have been a little off too. I also think the survivors and/or their friends may have disrupted some of the evidence before they realized what happened as we know they were there before police that morning.

I'd forgotten about the open door. Is it possible that it was neither BK nor a roommate, but someone else entirely jmo imo. IDK who it would be but it seems possible, I guess. IDK. this case has so many loose ends and questions jmo imo

the defense may try to create doubts about the DNA evidence by considering alternative scenarios.

imo jmo they don't have to create alternative scenarios - and that could turn on them if they did. I think they could just approach it by questioning whether there are many other ways the touch dna, what some common ways are, does the person even have to be in the room with the object, how could have landed there, how long it could last, if it could be there from checking out a friend's knife or holding one in a store or setting up other make-believe BK-friendly scenarios without beginning to suggest a specific one involving BK. this is imo jmo

I understand that this information is confidential and exempt from public disclosures, but I hope that the defense is able to access it in a timely and fair manner.

Ditto. esp with a CI in play, this does not have to involve the officer's relationship w a CI, but it certainly could, and it does concern me. that's jmo imo.

I've been struggling to understand how, considering her door placement in relation to the hall, DM saw the intruder walking toward her and saw his face and build without more than looking out

I've spent a lot of time on this as well. it seems like an awkward vantage point and she's very lucky he didn't see her imo jmo, but how much could she really have seen of him? and I'd think it must have been relatively dark because otherwise he'd have been more likely to see a crack - and witness -in the door and she'd have been able to see blood potentially imo jmo.

she will need to explain the delay in the 911 call.

imo jmo if they don't explain it and convincingly, there's so much opportunity there for the defense. As it is, unfortunately, a terrified witness, shaken to the core by what she saw means that what she saw may not be as reliable, but if she wasn't that terrified, then why not call? this is not me accusing or implying anything nefarious here, not at all, but just saying how the argument can be twisted into a kind of name-your-poison scenario imo jmo.

I realize this is 'a friend said' stuff, and I'd tend towards what was written in the PCA, but if I'm the defense, I'm maybe checking out some of these other stories and digging in a bit, esp since there were a lot of people on scene when LE / 911 showed up. imo jmo

Source: Surviving Idaho roommate thought noise was partying

The source spoke directly with surviving roommate Dylan Mortensen who allegedly thought the noises heard during the killings resulted from partying.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I'd forgotten about the open door. Is it possible that it was neither BK nor a roommate, but someone else entirely jmo imo. IDK who it would be but it seems possible, I guess. IDK. this case has so many loose ends and questions jmo imo

Snipped by me.

Yeah, I thought about that too. I wondered if maybe some friends came by earlier than we were told (LE may have kept that close to the vest to protect them?) or if someone came by while the roommates were asleep before they knew what happened. The answer I can't come up with is if someone came by, why would they clean up, unless they were the killer? I wish we had found out if the story of the open door was true before the gag order.

 

[GGbankster]

View attachment 412746

And here are BK's brows. You can see the larger torus and that his brows are not sleek, but probably slightly more bushy than a Hollywood actor would like to have - but normal. His eyebrows look dark and heavier (especially to the side of his eye) because of his bone structure, not his hairiness.

IMO. But yeah, lots of young women upon seeing this face briefly in the middle of the night, with its lower part masked, would probably go to "bushy eyebrows." The brows are just so unusually prominent (statistically speaking for the modern H. sapiens population, again more common in some parts of the world than others).

IME.

Based on the photo and the provided information, it is plausible that DM may have observed the intruder in lateral view as he approached her. This may have enabled her to discern his facial features and physique without confronting him directly.

Moreover, even if the intruder was wearing a mask, DM may have distinguished certain traits like the dimensions or morphology of his eyebrows. It must be noted that during stressful and traumatic incidents, individuals may not process information in a conventional or anticipated manner, which could account for her failure to discern the knife in his possession.

It is challenging to depict DM's observations with precision in the absence of supplementary data. Hence, it is of paramount importance to maintain an unbiased viewpoint and contemplate every potential scenario while reconstructing the occurrences of that unfortunate evening.