4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 76

[Gemmie]

I had wondered if he took a trophy from the scene but I was thinking something small not an id.WOW.

He should have skipped taking a trophy and concentrated on retrieving the sheath, or at least not leaving anything incriminating behind (since he likely didn't realize he left the sheath).

 

[whiterhino]

So, yes, this is NewsNation but the byline includes Chris Cuomo (new to NewsNation? I didn't realize he was writing for them). It also includes the hit-and-miss opinions of Coffindaffer.

HOWEVER, it's a big deal, because it seems to say that ID found in BK's car was from one of the victims (and apparently was found outside of Idaho - so no gag order):

Sources: ID from Idaho killings found in Kohberger home searches

“It’s a big deal. That is a smoking license,” retired FBI agent Jennifer Coffindaffer said.

www.newsnationnow.com

I was about to say critical things about NewsNation but often, taking up every lead is useful.

What was Bryan Kohberger doing with an ID from one of the victims?

If this is true/accurate/verified/placed into evidence, this is huge. And I'm not surprised that BK is yet another one of the Cuckoo Sadists who commit murder, if true.

IMO.

RBBM

I noticed that as well.

Aha, that explains it. Now I can erase my next post full of redundant questions

There was a comment here earlier, suggesting BK took ID cards as a trophy. Was it referred to as a license or was that just a play on words?

 

[U.N. Known]

So, yes, this is NewsNation but the byline includes Chris Cuomo (new to NewsNation? I didn't realize he was writing for them). It also includes the hit-and-miss opinions of Coffindaffer.

HOWEVER, it's a big deal, because it seems to say that ID found in BK's car was from one of the victims (and apparently was found outside of Idaho - so no gag order):

Sources: ID from Idaho killings found in Kohberger home searches

“It’s a big deal. That is a smoking license,” retired FBI agent Jennifer Coffindaffer said.

www.newsnationnow.com

I was about to say critical things about NewsNation but often, taking up every lead is useful.

What was Bryan Kohberger doing with an ID from one of the victims?

If this is true/accurate/verified/placed into evidence, this is huge. And I'm not surprised that BK is yet another one of the Cuckoo Sadists who commit murder, if true.

IMO.

Whenever I NewsNation as the source, my brain tosses the info in the speculation pile. While there is the IMO, off - chance one or more sources is legit, I've decided to take my chances and wait for verifiable news. MOO

And, the logical side of me wonders why, if this is true, the "source" is just now revealing it, why the source didn't say which person's ID it is, why LE didn't list the ID as belonging to a victim and exactly when the ID was taken. If it was within the same time as the murders, it would need to be easily spotted. There wouldn't have been time to rifle through belongings. JMO

 

[10ofRods]

RBBM

I noticed that as well.

Aha, that explains it. Now I can erase my next post full of redundant questions

There was a comment here earlier, suggesting BK took ID cards as a trophy. Was it referred to as a license or was that just a play on words?

I don't know - but it has come up in various places and now we have MSM reporting it! So we can discuss it.

I thought it said "ID" (not necessarily DL, but could be student ID or employee ID, etc). Like someone taking the little badge they want us to wear at work to denote we are employees. It doesn't matter to me. If a personal item from one of the victims was indeed found amongst BK's things/in his car, this is a big deal.

Of course we have to wait until June, but IME, these little leaks are often quite telling.

IMO.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Whenever I NewsNation as the source, my brain tosses the info in the speculation pile. While there is the IMO, off - chance one or more sources is legit, I've decided to take my chances and wait for verifiable news. MOO

And, the logical side of me wonders why, if this is true, the "source" is just now revealing it, why the source didn't say which person's ID it is, why LE didn't list the ID as belonging to a victim and exactly when the ID was taken. If it was within the same time as the murders, it would need to be easily spotted. There wouldn't have been time to rifle through belongings. JMO

yep, brutally murder two people, take gloves on an off*, change or remove shoe covers*, fight off and brutally murder two more people, walk back to car and peel out... in 15 minutes or less, searching for an ID, kinda not likely imo jmo.
*these are things that have been suggested, many others, too, but those just pop into my mind

 

[insearchoflight]

He’s toast

 

[10ofRods]

He should have skipped taking a trophy and concentrated on retrieving the sheath, or at least not leaving anything incriminating behind (since he likely didn't realize he left the sheath).

Well. You are thinking like a regular person.

BUT, if he screwed up with the sheath (as I believe), it's also likely he screwed up somewhere else. And my years of experience in interviewing criminal defendants (not all of them guilty of course) is that trophy-keeping is so important to so many of them. I don't get it, at all. Well, I have theories, but they're all weird ones.

Trophy-keeping is just plain strange, but my main theory is that many heinous criminals spend a lot of time in despair and grief over their own behavior. They keep trophies to try and remind themselves that their "work is done" and they can stop - but they don't always stop. A lot of crazy sadistic criminals spend time thinking about "how to stop." Some only wish to avoid being caught, but others have some ability to realize they have to stop themselves.

Food for thought, for me. I do think BK, if convicted and not executed, will fit comfortably into the prison population and have some time to figure out why he did what he did (and maybe, even, find some way to forgive himself or to invoke a Deity who will forgive him) That happens a lot in jails, prisons and hospitals for the mentally insane.

 

[tara83]

yep, brutally murder two people, take gloves on an off*, change or remove shoe covers*, fight off and brutally murder two more people, walk back to car and peel out... in 15 minutes or less, searching for an ID, kinda not likely imo jmo.
*these are things that have been suggested, many others, too, but those just pop into my mind

It could have been on a table by the bed.It could have been something like a nametag from one of the 2 who were waitresses.Wouldn't have had to be a search.

 

[Gemmie]

BUT, if he screwed up with the sheath (as I believe), it's also likely he screwed up somewhere else. And my years of experience in interviewing criminal defendants (not all of them guilty of course) is that trophy-keeping is so important to so many of them. I don't get it, at all. Well, I have theories, but they're all weird ones.

SBMFF

Weird to the sane, but not so weird to them. This and other things have really got me to wondering about the human mind.

 

[MassGuy]

DNA will nail him, cell phone evidence will cripple him, and any connection to these girls prior to the crime, or via a trophy (this alleged ID) will bury him not 6 feet under, but 600 feet under.

 

[flowershop]

So, yes, this is NewsNation but the byline includes Chris Cuomo (new to NewsNation? I didn't realize he was writing for them). It also includes the hit-and-miss opinions of Coffindaffer.

HOWEVER, it's a big deal, because it seems to say that ID found in BK's car was from one of the victims (and apparently was found outside of Idaho - so no gag order):

Sources: ID from Idaho killings found in Kohberger home searches

“It’s a big deal. That is a smoking license,” retired FBI agent Jennifer Coffindaffer said.

www.newsnationnow.com

I was about to say critical things about NewsNation but often, taking up every lead is useful.

What was Bryan Kohberger doing with an ID from one of the victims?

If this is true/accurate/verified/placed into evidence, this is huge. And I'm not surprised that BK is yet another one of the Cuckoo Sadists who commit murder, if true.

IMO.

JMO but I think it could be an ID he had used that day as a staff member/grad student. His personal ID. Maybe he used it that very day to gain access to a university office so now it is relevant to the case?

 

[Megnut]

IDiot.

 

[Gemmie]

yep, brutally murder two people, take gloves on an off*, change or remove shoe covers*, fight off and brutally murder two more people, walk back to car and peel out... in 15 minutes or less, searching for an ID, kinda not likely imo jmo.
*these are things that have been suggested, many others, too, but those just pop into my mind

The thing that popped out to me is IF he was searching for an ID there'd be more DNA left behind than was on the sheath. Don't most people keep their license in a wallet? Or a purse? While I'm sure someone might do this, I'm thinking it's rare for people to leave their ID out where it could be easily picked up without touching anything. I gave up purses and wallets long ago but my license is still "in" something (my pants pocket). I don't leave it sitting out on a dresser/desk/counter, etc.

 

[al66pine]

If BK Stalked in PA, Is that Info Admissible at Trial?

.... Coffindaffer's opinions on this case on Cuomo's show...
if...investigations in PA have indeed turned anything up that may be germane to the case against BK for allegedly murdering Kaylee, Maddie, Xana, and Ethan....
"simple" like nighttime prowling or stalking of young women on his part any of the years he lived in PA related or not to an actual crime, it would show a pattern of behavior,...
"In criminal law, modus operandi....
The evidence is so specific that it uniquely identifies defendant as the perpetrator in the case at hand."....

snipped for focus @Twistinginthewind
Yes, if BK did "nighttime prowling or stalking of young women" in PA related or not to an actual crime, it would show a pattern of behavior. Sooo? Admissible at trial?

ID RULE of EVIDENCE 404. Character Evidence; Crimes or Other Acts.*
In this ID. murder case, would evd of BK's stalking in PA (assuming it's found) be admissible?
404(b). "(1) Prohibited Uses. Evidence of a crime, wrong, or other act is not admissible to prove a person’s character in order to show that on a particular occasion the person acted in accordance with the character."
So, in guilt phase of trial, his earlier stalking (if found) is not admissible to show stalking in current case. imo

404(b). "(2) Permitted Uses; Notice in a Criminal Case. This evidence may be admissible for another purpose, such as proving motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, absence of mistake, or lack of accident...."
Imo, evd of previous stalking (if found) would not tend to prove any of those other purposes.

Doubtful imo that PA stalking would be admissible in this trial. ICBW. Welcoming other opinions on application of this rule re this issue, esp'ly from our legal professionals.

BTW, despite the Cornell Law School/LII entry,** "MODUS OPERANDI is not actually a rule of evidence governing admissibility of evd at trial. (eta: Well, not in ID, IIRC)
Would evd of BK's stalking in PA (assuming it's found) be an MO "so specific that it identifies"** def't in current case as being the perp? Nope, imo, plenty of uni-age dudes stalk teen girls/young women in-person & online. Hardly unique to BM, nothing like the bank robber w prior bank robbery conviction ex. in LII link.
______________________________
* ID Rule of Evd. 474(b) tracks the fed rule; virtually identical.
"Idaho Rules of Evidence Rule 404. Character Evidence; Crimes or Other Acts.

I.R.E. 404. Character Evidence not Admissible to Prove Conduct; Exceptions; Other Crimes. | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

Rule 404. Character Evidence; Other Crimes, Wrongs, or Acts

www.law.cornell.edu

** link to cornell law school/lii entry:
modus operandi

 

[Twistinginthewind]

The thing that popped out to me is IF he was searching for an ID there'd be more DNA left behind than was on the sheath. Don't most people keep their license in a wallet? Or a purse? While I'm sure someone might do this, I'm thinking it's rare for people to leave their ID out where it could be easily picked up without touching anything. I gave up purses and wallets long ago but my license is still "in" something (my pants pocket). I don't leave it sitting out on a dresser/desk/counter, etc.

Good points, @Gemmie

I know people who leave their cards (IDs/credit/debit) "out" in their household (unsuspecting on a table or in a drawer or on a windowsill) that could be "scooped up" by someone in person who walked through there, and they may not have noticed.

Especially now when so many transactions are done online, and they may have all that info in a spreadsheet or on their apps and not even remember where they kept their actual cards.

But I don't know how the 3 young women who were killed and Ethan managed their cards.

MOO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Well. You are thinking like a regular person.

BUT, if he screwed up with the sheath (as I believe), it's also likely he screwed up somewhere else. And my years of experience in interviewing criminal defendants (not all of them guilty of course) is that trophy-keeping is so important to so many of them. I don't get it, at all. Well, I have theories, but they're all weird ones.

Trophy-keeping is just plain strange, but my main theory is that many heinous criminals spend a lot of time in despair and grief over their own behavior. They keep trophies to try and remind themselves that their "work is done" and they can stop - but they don't always stop. A lot of crazy sadistic criminals spend time thinking about "how to stop." Some only wish to avoid being caught, but others have some ability to realize they have to stop themselves.

Food for thought, for me. I do think BK, if convicted and not executed, will fit comfortably into the prison population and have some time to figure out why he did what he did (and maybe, even, find some way to forgive himself or to invoke a Deity who will forgive him) That happens a lot in jails, prisons and hospitals for the mentally insane.

Thank you for your perspective, @10ofRods, it's always so good to hear your informed opinion! BBM, respectfully, Imma Gonna Hope So! JMO

 

[WingsOverTX]

He’s toast

With sticky jam on top!

 

[jepop]

Most people do not understand how Grand Juries work, even in their own jurisdictions.

Coffindafer should know better, but then, perhaps she's mainly just been doing various investigative (not legal) things.

What do people think the purpose of a GJ is, other than to hear evidence and indict? If someone is already indicted, no one convenes a GJ to do it again.

And where I live, the GJ is used only for cases that involve criminal misdoings by public employees or when national security issues are at stake, wherein many people who work in various civic offenses wish to testify without the media present and without the same rules as a Prelim. For example: A judge was indicted. The entire thing was kept secret, we still do not know the details. He resigned and pleaded out to lesser charges than his original charges. In another case, several people working for the County in their retirement finance division had embezzled. Same thing. Charges. No trial. They pleaded to the charges given them by the GJ (and it really did keep the case on the down low, as intended - but the people who had to testify against these people would have had to work UNDER them if they had not been indicted and had not pleaded out).

IMO.

Could be some sectors of MSM being a bit bored so a tad of pot stirring. Whatever it is, I wouldn't call it news personally, as nothing is actually new. Just innuendo, IMO, which seems to be an accepted standard of reporting so nothing to complain of I guess. MOO

 

[gremlin444]

NewsNation needs to be more careful. According to the return of search warrants, the "ID cards in glove in box" were found in Brian's parent's house--NOT his car.

We now know what was found in Bryan Kohberger's car, home after new search warrants are unsealed

Bryan Kohberger is charged with four counts of first-degree murder in the stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students.

www.wnep.com

 

[jepop]

If BK Stalked in PA, Is that Info Admissible at Trial?

snipped for focus @Twistinginthewind
Yes, if BK did "nighttime prowling or stalking of young women" in PA related or not to an actual crime, it would show a pattern of behavior. Sooo? Admissible at trial?

ID RULE of EVIDENCE 404. Character Evidence; Crimes or Other Acts.*
In this ID. murder case, would evd of BK's stalking in PA (assuming it's found) be admissible?
404(b). "(1) Prohibited Uses. Evidence of a crime, wrong, or other act is not admissible to prove a person’s character in order to show that on a particular occasion the person acted in accordance with the character."
So, in guilt phase of trial, his earlier stalking (if found) is not admissible to show stalking in current case. imo

404(b). "(2) Permitted Uses; Notice in a Criminal Case. This evidence may be admissible for another purpose, such as proving motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, absence of mistake, or lack of accident...."
Imo, evd of previous stalking (if found) would not tend to prove any of those other purposes.

Doubtful imo that PA stalking would be admissible in this trial. ICBW. Welcoming other opinions on application of this rule re this issue, esp'ly from our legal professionals.

BTW, despite the Cornell Law School/LII entry,** "MODUS OPERANDI is not actually a rule of evidence governing admissibility of evd at trial. (eta: Well, not in ID, IIRC)
Would evd of BK's stalking in PA (assuming it's found) be an MO "so specific that it identifies"** def't in current case as being the perp? Nope, imo, plenty of uni-age dudes stalk teen girls/young women in-person & online. Hardly unique to BM, nothing like the bank robber w prior bank robbery conviction ex. in LII link.
______________________________
* ID Rule of Evd. 474(b) tracks the fed rule; virtually identical.
"Idaho Rules of Evidence Rule 404. Character Evidence; Crimes or Other Acts.

I.R.E. 404. Character Evidence not Admissible to Prove Conduct; Exceptions; Other Crimes. | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

Rule 404. Character Evidence; Other Crimes, Wrongs, or Acts

www.law.cornell.edu

** link to cornell law school/lii entry:
modus operandi

Yes, I was going to query that too. Not saying it is not important info, but would it be admissable in this trial? MOO