4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered - Bryan Kohberger Arrested - Moscow # 76

[al66pine]

Tonight's News Nation story. Thx @MassGuy .Questions, Questions.

The headline:
"Sources: ID from Idaho killings found in Kohberger home searches
"An ID from the Idaho killings was found in Bryan Kohberger's residence
"Police arrested Kohberger in Pennsylvania at his parents’ home
"An apartment was also searched in Pullman, Washington"

Q: "ID from Idaho killings." ID from one of the deceased? Or one of the two survivors? Or a guest at 1122 King?
Q:"An apartment"??? Was it an apt. other than BK's WA. apt?


And
" An ID connected to someone from the quadruple homicide in Moscow, Idaho, was found during one the searches of Bryan Kohberger’s residences,..."
Q: Residences, PLURAL. BK's WA. apt AND parent's PA. home? We know LE searched both.

And
"... police seized IDs from Kohberger’s car, but it did not specify to whom they belonged."
Q: Headline says, ID found in BK home searches.

And
"Police would not officially confirm the details of the license due to a gag order in the case..."
So which "police?" Those bound directly by the gag order? IIUC, MPD, ISP, FBI, et al? Or did local PA LE say this?

Enquiring minds want to know.
____________________________
* Sources: ID from Idaho killings found in Kohberger home searches Ap. 6.

 

[jepop]

Tonight's News Nation story. Thx @MassGuy .Questions, Questions.

The headline:
"Sources: ID from Idaho killings found in Kohberger home searches
"An ID from the Idaho killings was found in Bryan Kohberger's residence
"Police arrested Kohberger in Pennsylvania at his parents’ home
"An apartment was also searched in Pullman, Washington"

Q: "ID from Idaho killings." ID from one of the deceased? Or one of the two survivors? Or a guest at 1122 King?
Q:"An apartment"??? Was it an apt. other than BK's WA. apt?


And
" An ID connected to someone from the quadruple homicide in Moscow, Idaho, was found during one the searches of Bryan Kohberger’s residences,..."
Q: Residences, PLURAL. BK's WA. apt AND parent's PA. home? We know LE searched both.

And
"... police seized IDs from Kohberger’s car, but it did not specify to whom they belonged."
Q: Headline says, ID found in BK home searches.

And
"Police would not officially confirm the details of the license due to a gag order in the case..."
So which "police?" Those bound directly by the gag order? IIUC, MPD, ISP, FBI, et al? Or did local PA LE say this?

Enquiring minds want to know.
____________________________
* Sources: ID from Idaho killings found in Kohberger home searches Ap. 6.

Is someone leaking to NN (someone who is gagged) and could this have an impact on a fair trial and cause problems? Can this be discovered? Or is NN just rehashing and speculating for something to do? Either/or? MOO

Edited for clarity

 

[wary]

The thing that popped out to me is IF he was searching for an ID there'd be more DNA left behind than was on the sheath. Don't most people keep their license in a wallet? Or a purse? While I'm sure someone might do this, I'm thinking it's rare for people to leave their ID out where it could be easily picked up without touching anything. I gave up purses and wallets long ago but my license is still "in" something (my pants pocket). I don't leave it sitting out on a dresser/desk/counter, etc.

I’d expect a driver’s license to be in a purse, or something, but I find it very easy to believe that something like a pin-on name tag would be lying on the dresser.

Hmm, if the DL had been carried in a pants pocket, I’d think it’d be out of the pocket and on the dresser, to be transferred to the new pair of pants in the morning—no easier way to lose things than to leave them in your pockets overnight.

So, IF this is true, maybe he just saw something in plain sight and grabbed it. I agree that he didn’t really have time for a search.

MOO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

If BK Stalked in PA, Is that Info Admissible at Trial?

snipped for focus @Twistinginthewind
Yes, if BK did "nighttime prowling or stalking of young women" in PA related or not to an actual crime, it would show a pattern of behavior. Sooo? Admissible at trial?

ID RULE of EVIDENCE 404. Character Evidence; Crimes or Other Acts.*
In this ID. murder case, would evd of BK's stalking in PA (assuming it's found) be admissible?
404(b). "(1) Prohibited Uses. Evidence of a crime, wrong, or other act is not admissible to prove a person’s character in order to show that on a particular occasion the person acted in accordance with the character."
So, in guilt phase of trial, his earlier stalking (if found) is not admissible to show stalking in current case. imo

404(b). "(2) Permitted Uses; Notice in a Criminal Case. This evidence may be admissible for another purpose, such as proving motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, absence of mistake, or lack of accident...."
Imo, evd of previous stalking (if found) would not tend to prove any of those other purposes.

Doubtful imo that PA stalking would be admissible in this trial. ICBW. Welcoming other opinions on application of this rule re this issue, esp'ly from our legal professionals.

BTW, despite the Cornell Law School/LII entry,** "MODUS OPERANDI is not actually a rule of evidence governing admissibility of evd at trial. (eta: Well, not in ID, IIRC)
Would evd of BK's stalking in PA (assuming it's found) be an MO "so specific that it identifies"** def't in current case as being the perp? Nope, imo, plenty of uni-age dudes stalk teen girls/young women in-person & online. Hardly unique to BM, nothing like the bank robber w prior bank robbery conviction ex. in LII link.
______________________________
* ID Rule of Evd. 474(b) tracks the fed rule; virtually identical.
"Idaho Rules of Evidence Rule 404. Character Evidence; Crimes or Other Acts.

I.R.E. 404. Character Evidence not Admissible to Prove Conduct; Exceptions; Other Crimes. | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

Rule 404. Character Evidence; Other Crimes, Wrongs, or Acts

www.law.cornell.edu

** link to cornell law school/lii entry:
modus operandi

Good questions and points, @al66pine ! Thank you for your valuable input and citations, as always! Looking forward to seeing what ends up being "in the mix" in this case! IMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes, I was going to query that too. Not saying it is not important info, but would it be admissable in this trial? MOO

Yes it can be used. I just saw Other Acts Evidence used in a trial last year. Prosecution filed a motion to use specific acts and defense filed motion arguing against using the specific acts. Some acts were allowed into trial by the judge.

I.R.E. 404. Character Evidence not Admissible to Prove Conduct; Exceptions; Other Crimes. | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

IDAHO

Crimes, Wrongs, or Other Acts.

Permitted Uses; Notice in a Criminal Case.

Such as proving motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, absence of mistake, or lack of accident.

In a criminal case, the prosecutor must:

(A) file and serve reasonable notice of the general nature of any such evidence that the prosecutor intends to offer at trial; and

(B) do so reasonably in advance of trial – or during trial if the court, for good cause shown, excuses lack of pretrial notice.

(Adopted March 26, 2018, effective July 1, 2018.)

 

[ilovewings]

Is someone leaking to NN (someone who is gagged) and could this have an impact on a fair trial and cause problems? Can this be discovered? Or is NN just rehashing and speculating for something to do? Either/or? MOO

Edited for clarity

At this point I take all these rumors with a grain of salt--I think
NN would do anything for ratings--- especially Ashleigh Banfield
JMO

 

[jepop]

Yes it can be used. I just saw Other Acts Evidence used in a trial last year. Prosecution filed a motion to use specific acts and defense filed motion arguing against using the specific acts. Some acts were allowed into trial by the judge.

I.R.E. 404. Character Evidence not Admissible to Prove Conduct; Exceptions; Other Crimes. | Supreme Court

isc.idaho.gov

Crimes, Wrongs, or Other Acts.

Permitted Uses; Notice in a Criminal Case.

This evidence may be admissible for another purpose, such as proving motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, absence of mistake, or lack of accident.

In a criminal case, the prosecutor must:

(A) file and serve reasonable notice of the general nature of any such evidence that the prosecutor intends to offer at trial; and

(B) do so reasonably in advance of trial – or during trial if the court, for good cause shown, excuses lack of pretrial notice.

(Adopted March 26, 2018, effective July 1, 2018.)

Thank you!. I think I'm understanding that what is admissable has to be of a general nature, pointing to a pattern of behvaiour that might speak to the motive or supporting the current trial evidence? Makes sense to me. Would info pertaining to a current investigation in another state in relation to another specific crime be admissable in your estimation?

ETA: Sorry by last sentence I think I'm simply wondering if a jury would be allowed to be aware if the defendent was concurrently under investigation in another state for a separate crime? Or would such a fact be prejudicial? I get the general stuff relating to patterned behaviour or establishing an MO.

 

[jepop]

In a previous statement from KG dad, SG, I recall him saying (paraphrasing) that BK was close enough to the victims‘ house to “touch” the Wi-Fi. So, perhaps if BK had ever been in the house (guest or party) and was given the wi-if password, he would automatically connect to it again if he were in range of their house/Wi-Fi. Hoping he did somehow connect to their home Wi-Fi-knowingly or, as previously discussed his Wi-Fi automatically trying to connect to the victims, unbeknownst to BK.

RBBM: I'm curious about this too. A Warrant for info from a Spectrum wireless Router was served on 21 November 2022 to Charter Communications Inc. Guessing this might be a Router that was inside the King Road House. MOO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/022823%20Order%20to%20Seal%20and%20Redact%20-%20Charter%20Communications.pdf

ETA MOO
ETA RSBBM

 

[NCWatcher]

I’d expect a driver’s license to be in a purse, or something, but I find it very easy to believe that something like a pin-on name tag would be lying on the dresser.

Hmm, if the DL had been carried in a pants pocket, I’d think it’d be out of the pocket and on the dresser, to be transferred to the new pair of pants in the morning—no easier way to lose things than to leave them in your pockets overnight.

So, IF this is true, maybe he just saw something in plain sight and grabbed it. I agree that he didn’t really have time for a search.

MOO

Student IDs are often carried openly, sometimes on keychains. And they are often lost. Still students carry them openly or in pockets because they are needed for so many things on campus-- meals (not just meal plans but most campuses off-campus students can load up an acct and use it on vending machines or in snack bars between classes), copy machines, computer lab access, the library, access to gym, access to other recreational offerings that might be available outside the gym (bowling etc), entry into some other buildings... A student ID was probably needed for the university-provided ride home KG & MM got that night.
JMO

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

It could have been on a table by the bed.It could have been something like a nametag from one of the 2 who were waitresses.Wouldn't have had to be a search.

True. It just doesn't seem like the kind of thing someone would think about during a homicidal mania. I'd be inclined to believe he would have gotten it at an earlier time. I've always wondered if the killer did a B&E prior to familiarize himself with the place jmo imo.

Would evd of BK's stalking in PA (assuming it's found) be an MO "so specific that it identifies"** def't in current case as being the perp? Nope, imo, plenty of uni-age dudes stalk teen girls/young women in-person & online. Hardly unique to BM, nothing like the bank robber w prior bank robbery conviction ex. in LII link.

that's the way I learned it,( and not from a coloring book ) nothing unique about it.

 

[Nova]

Well the MPD said the 'roommate may be critical to solving this case' in the first few day after makes me believe D's testimony will be quite important. She was home that night by 1 am, this happened around 4 am so she would have had 3 hours to sober up even assuming she'd had a lot to drink. I don't believe they had. JMO

Her description was quite detailed IMO: 5 10" or taller, slim, athletic build, bushy eyebrows, dark clothing. Fits BK to a tee.

MOO

My point was that just because DM identified 3 elements that fit BK DOES NOT MEAN that her same ID doesn't fit a number of other young men.

"Dark clothing"? Isn't that everyone? How will the DA prove what BK was wearing during the hour of the murders?

I didn't say DM's testimony will be unimportant, just that--and by her own admission if we believe MPD--she doesn't claim to have identified Bryan Kohberger out of all males in the region.

Honestly, I don't think I posted anything profound enough to cause controversy!

 

[jepop]

Ah well, personally I'm not greatly surprised that the facts were mixed up by the reporting source. JMO.

NewsNation needs to be more careful. According to the return of search warrants, the "ID cards in glove in box" were found in Brian's parent's house--NOT his car.

We now know what was found in Bryan Kohberger's car, home after new search warrants are unsealed

Bryan Kohberger is charged with four counts of first-degree murder in the stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students.

www.wnep.com

 

[whiterhino]

True. It just doesn't seem like the kind of thing someone would think about during a homicidal mania. I'd be inclined to believe he would have gotten it at an earlier time. I've always wondered if the killer did a B&E prior to familiarize himself with the place jmo imo.

that's the way I learned it,( and not from a coloring book ) nothing unique about it.

Perhaps BK spotted the ID and forgot all about the sheath? For some reason I am imagining that the ID belongs to either KG or MM for some reason.

If BK took it on a previous occasion I'm assuming it must have been old or expired ID otherwise wouldn't the owner report it missing or try to replace it?

 

[jepop]

I too remember KGs dad SG saying this. I couldn't find any links with direct quotes though.

AFAIK even if BK didn't have the password for the wifi at 1122 King Rd if his phone was set to scan for available networks his phone might have pinged their router (as well as other neighbors routers potentially!). I'm sure this has already been discussed in previous threads but I cannot recall the details. The media thread might contain some more information.

RSBBM: Maybe the Return on the warrant for Charter Inc (link posted just upthread) has provided some wireless device numbers if what you are saying is right and scanning nearby devices is enough. I'm not really knowledgable about this sort of stuff but I think those in the know have discussed at length here previously and it's a possibility. MOO

 

[al66pine]

NewsNation Ap. 6 Story. Consequences?

Is someone leaking to NN (someone who is gagged) and could this have an impact on a fair trial and cause problems? Can this be discovered? Or is NN just rehashing and speculating for something to do? Either/or? MOO
Edited for clarity

@jepop
Someone providing to NN directly or thru a third party? Could be.
Seems the info tends to support prosecution's case, so, imo, unlikely PD or someone associated w def-team is the leak-or.
If these stmts are accurate, is it likely that someone who is not gagged (a non-gagee?) would be aware of these various bits of info, and would provide to NN or any MSM? Possible, but doubtful, imo.

If, pursuant to a search wrrt, LE (whichever LE agency) recovered ID of a deceased or surviving victim and provided this info to media, likely imo the ID and circumstances of recovery will still be admissible at trial. Not like a fruit of the poisonous tree/exclusionary issue.
Imo doubtful it would be a basis for ct/app to reverse a conviction.
But if top brass of LE agency was made aware that an LEO had leaked/spilled the beans to NN or other media, could be disciplinary consequences for that LEO.

Could this be discovered? Who would try to put NN reporter on the hot seat? Personally not well versed in Freedom of the Press and Protection of Confidential Sources. Some guidance here:
Protection of Confidential Sources

OTOH, possible that NN took some license in reporting? IDK.

If NN story is accurate, quite a development.

 

[Helechawagirl]

So, yes, this is NewsNation but the byline includes Chris Cuomo (new to NewsNation? I didn't realize he was writing for them). It also includes the hit-and-miss opinions of Coffindaffer.

HOWEVER, it's a big deal, because it seems to say that ID found in BK's car was from one of the victims (and apparently was found outside of Idaho - so no gag order):

Sources: ID from Idaho killings found in Kohberger home searches

“It’s a big deal. That is a smoking license,” retired FBI agent Jennifer Coffindaffer said.

www.newsnationnow.com

I was about to say critical things about NewsNation but often, taking up every lead is useful.

What was Bryan Kohberger doing with an ID from one of the victims?

If this is true/accurate/verified/placed into evidence, this is huge. And I'm not surprised that BK is yet another one of the Cuckoo Sadists who commit murder, if true.

IMO.

Yes. He has a show with them now. He is a real journalist. JMO

 

[jepop]

NewsNation Ap. 6 Story. Consequences?

@jepop
Someone providing to NN directly or thru a third party? Could be.
Seems the info tends to support prosecution's case, so, imo, unlikely PD or someone associated w def-team is the leak-or.
If these stmts are accurate, is it likely that someone who is not gagged (a non-gagee?) would be aware of these various bits of info, and would provide to NN or any MSM? Possible, but doubtful, imo.

If, pursuant to a search wrrt, LE (whichever LE agency) recovered ID of a deceased or surviving victim and provided this info to media, likely imo the ID and circumstances of recovery will still be admissible at trial. Not like a fruit of the poisonous tree/exclusionary issue.
Imo doubtful it would be a basis for ct/app to reverse a conviction.
But if top brass of LE agency was made aware that an LEO had leaked/spilled the beans to NN or other media, could be disciplinary consequences for that LEO.

Could this be discovered? Who would try to put NN reporter on the hot seat? Personally not well versed in Freedom of the Press and Protection of Confidential Sources. Some guidance here:
Protection of Confidential Sources

OTOH, possible that NN took some license in reporting? IDK.

If NN story is accurate, quite a development.

Thank you @al66pine. That just about covers it, appreciate your succinctness and summarising technique as always.

 

[al66pine]

dbm

 

[NCWatcher]

Perhaps BK spotted the ID and forgot all about the sheath? For some reason I am imagining that the ID belongs to either KG or MM for some reason.

If BK took it on a previous occasion I'm assuming it must have been old or expired ID otherwise wouldn't the owner report it missing or try to replace it?

We don't know that it wasn't replaced do we? As I mentioned earlier, student IDs often are lost and must be replaced. If it had been a work ID or DL, we wouldn't know if it had been replaced but I expect LE would (assuming the story is true and I don't assume that. I still remember JC swearing Brian Laundrie was in Mexico where his parents hid him as late as a few days before his skeleton was found in the FL swamp where his parents publicly said he went. So I take this story with a chunk of salt.)

JMO

 

[maconrich]

Maybe NN just realized that they didn't find 10 curls inside glove in box (in the list of items taken from inside the PA home - not the car), and upon this discovery they read SM theories about what and why he might have ID cards inside a glove in a box. And concluded he had ID card(s) of the victim(s). That my mind would even go there is a result of my opinion of NN - and my opinion of AB is even lower. MOO