4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #81

[Swansee]

I was very surprised to see the Pappa Rodgers stuff resurface in the Dateline show.
It was my understanding that this account had been debunked. Furthermore the account fell silent because it had been removed by admins, coincidentally the night before BK's arrest.
Additionally, contrary to what Dateline claims, the sheath stuff had been surmised by other posters on social media before Pappa Rodgers posted about it, I can't source that here but look around and you will find discussions of it.

Source (scroll way down): Sleuths claim to have spotted Idaho suspect Bryan Kohberger at vigil

 

[10ofRods]

Dana Smithers' body was found less than a month ago.

So, would LE have already considered BK a suspect prior to finding her? I wouldn't necessarily think so because, up until the time she was found, it seemed like there was little to no evidence to go on.

Would PA LE have had LE in ID question BK after Smithers' body was found? Is that when he gave an alibi of something like "being at home" and then his parents were questioned? Did they find fairly damning evidence toward BK once they found Smithers?

Less than a month seems like a short time (to me) to convene a grand jury about the Smithers case & compel BK's parents to testify. (I could be wrong. I don't know much about grand juries and how quickly they are convened.)

Just trying to wrap my head around the possibilities. While I knew LE were investigating BK for possible prior crimes, I'm kind of shocked by the news this afternoon.

MOO.

I don’t know PA at all. But definitely sounds as if something about the forensics may have led rapidly to a GJ.
I too am trying to think of other alternatives. age of victim means little with a serial killer. IMO.

 

[Nova]

I am not going to comment on DNA in this case further. My attempts to clarify how DNA can and cannot be used and how the defense may address this are being totally taken out of context. I'm just done with this.

I don't blame you, but FTR I think you have been perfectly clear.

To wit, DNA on an object that is easily moved from place to place is not as convincing as (a) DNA that would quickly be washed off a victim, or (b) DNA on a part of the crime scene that can't be moved at all (e.g., door knob).

That doesn't mean--and you didn't say--DNA is irrelevant in any case.

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

The prosecutor requested defendant produce an alibi in the latest request for discovery (all caps in the request)

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/052323%20States%20Request%20for%20Discovery%20Disclosure%20%20Alibi%20Demand.pdf

FURTHER, THE STATE HEREBY DEMANDS OF THE DEFENDANT NOTICE OF DEFENSE OF ALIBI PURSUANT TO IDAHO CODE 19-519 AND IDAHO CRIMINAL RULE DATED this 23 day of May, 2023

According to idaho code 19-519 10 days which will be June 2 unless the court directs otherwise. MOO

Section 19-519 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

At any time after arraignment before a magistrate upon a complaint and upon written demand of the prosecuting attorney, the defendant shall serve, within ten (10) days or at such different time as the court may direct, upon the prosecuting attorney, a written notice of his intention to offer a defense of alibi. Such notice by the defendant shall state the specific place or places at which the defendant claims to have been at the time of the alleged offense and the names and addresses of the witnesses upon whom he intends to rely to establish such alibi.
(2) Within ten (10) days after receipt of the defendant’s notice of alibi but in no event less than ten (10) days before trial, unless the court otherwise directs, the prosecuting attorney shall serve upon the defendant or his attorney a written notice stating the names and addresses of the witnesses upon whom the prosecution intends to rely to establish the defendant’s presence at the scene of the alleged offense and any other witnesses to be relied on to rebut testimony of any of the defendant’s alibi witnesses.
(3) If prior to or during trial a party learns of an additional witness whose identity, if known, should have been included in the information furnished under subsection (1) or subsection (2) of this section, the party shall promptly notify the other party or his attorney of the existence and identity of such additional witness.
(4) Upon the failure of either party to comply with the requirements of this section, the court may exclude the testimony of any undisclosed witness offered by such party as to the defendant’s absence from or presence at, the scene of the alleged offense. This section shall not limit the right of the defendant to testify in his own behalf.
(5) For good cause shown the court may grant an exception to any of the requirements of subsections (1) through (4) of this section.
History:
[19-519, added 1978, ch. 301, sec. 1, p. 758.]

MOO

Although I can't produce the first one because the link is gone, I do remember that being part of the original discovery request by the prosecution, too. It's required that the defense provide that so no surprise that it's included. imo.

 

[JudgeJudi]

BK’s parents have reportedly been subpoenaed to testify before an investigative grand jury in the family’s home state of Pennsylvania. KB’s father is expected to testify before the grand jury in a sealed proceeding in Monroe County on Thursday, a source told CNN. It was not immediately clear in what potential crime they were being investigated.

His mother has already given evidence to the grand jury, the source told the news outlet, adding that their testimony will be given under oath and may be shared with Idaho prosecutors.

News Nation reported that BK’s parents had been called to testify in a case related to Dana Smithers, who went missing in 2022 and was later found dead.

Meanwhile, the families of two of the four slain Idaho students are preparing to sue the university, Washington State University and the city of Moscow over their murders, it has been revealed.

Idaho murder suspect’s parents ordered to testify for grand jury – update

 

[Sister Golden Hair]

Nerves maybe? Nerves (especially when the event at which you wil be uttering names will be viewed by millions)
can have an unnerving effect (pun intended) The mother of all name mix-ups has to be during Lady Diana Spencer's marriage vows to the then Prince Charles.

Diana’s major blunder after calling Charles wrong name during wedding

PRINCESS DIANA made a huge blunder during her wedding vows after calling Prince Charles by the wrong name, unearthed accounts show.

www.express.co.uk

This is what I would bet on. I imagine it would be unnerving - this is huge, nothing he was probably expecting for a courtroom in Idaho, and not all of us are made for TV. So yes, he made a big mistake, but I have had my own horrifying experiences with the unnerving nerves in public, so perhaps empathy is kicking in for me. IMO he seems to be a thoughtful judge, and his comments to Stoel were awesome. That part he owned.

 

[10ofRods]

SPECULATION

If Idaho and PA have shared info, could PA have already had ample digital forensics from Kohberger’s phone? Could that have placed him near the sire where Dana went missing, at the time she went missing? Or maybe in her vicinity on other occasions? Or both?

Has there ever been a case like that? My brain is overloaded. I want to ask if he returned to the scene of that crime? Was her ID one of the mystery ID’s? Was she blonde?

Is there a thread for Dana?

IMO

 

[Nova]

DBM.

 

[Nova]

I don’t know PA at all. But definitely sounds as if something about the forensics may have led rapidly to a GJ.
I too am trying to think of other alternatives. age of victim means little with a serial killer. IMO.

I don't have a link handy and don't care enough to search for one.

So IMHO some jurisdictions have "standing grand juries" that can be a resource whenever the DA wants to present a case.

I don't know the situation in Monroe County, PA, but the GJ before which the Kohbergers testified may have been a standing one and not convened just to investigate one homicide, much less to specially focus on BK.

 

[Nova]

SPECULATION

If Idaho and PA have shared info, could PA have already had ample digital forensics from Kohberger’s phone? Could that have placed him near the sire where Dana went missing, at the time she went missing? Or maybe in her vicinity on other occasions? Or both?

Has there ever been a case like that? My brain is overloaded. I want to ask if he returned to the scene of that crime? Was her ID one of the mystery ID’s? Was she blonde?

Is there a thread for Dana?

IMO

I really don't know, but given the publicity and geographical proximity, perhaps the Monroe County DA feared a public backlash if s/he did NOT ask the Kohbergers about their son's whereabouts when the deceased woman went missing.

ETA another poster above wrote that s/he had been reading and posting on the relevant thread, so apparently there IS a thread here for Dana Smithers' case.

 

[NCWatcher]

I really don't know, but given the publicity and geographical proximity, perhaps the Monroe County DA feared a public backlash if s/he did NOT ask the Kohbergers about their son's whereabouts when the deceased woman went missing.

ETA another poster above wrote that s/he had been reading and posting on the relevant thread, so apparently there IS a thread here for Dana Smithers' case.

I was wondering exactly the same thing. I don't know much about the DS case. But is it possible the DA in PA was waiting to go to a GJ to investigate further or to bring charges against X once the body was found? (Yes, we all know charges can be brought without a body but it's certainly not ideal.)

Someone here wrote something along the lines of "BK very likely was involved in this other murder since it was near his house." I strongly disagree geography creates that level of likelihood, but is it possible the DA feared the Grand Jurors would think the same thing? And if they did, they'd refuse to indict the ham sandwich the DA put in front of them?
JMO

 

[I'm Nobody]

Doesn't Dana look a little like an older Xana????

Dana Smithers photo from Disappeared

JMO

Found Deceased - PA - Dana Kristine Smithers, 45, Stroudsburg, 28 May 2022 *found in 2023

Missing Person The Stroud Area Regional Police Department is seeking the public’s assistance in locating a missing person from Stroudsburg. On 06/04/2022, Dana Smithers, of Stroudsburg Borough, Pennsylvania was reported missing to the Stroud Area Regional Police. Smithers was last seen on...

www.websleuths.com

The Disappearance of Dana Smithers - Disappeared

45 year old Dana Kristine Smithers was last seen in Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania on the night of May 28, 2022. She disappeared after

disappearedblog.com

 

[jepop]

^^^I think it maybe have just been BCK's reaction the the judge just completely destroying her last name several times, have you heard the judge stumble and never did get her name correct? It was pathetic MOO
He also got KG's name wrong, I believe he called her Kayla.Its like he had never seen these names before or read them.
I would assume everyone in the court room had some uncontrollable and natural negative reaction to that.
IMO there was no excuse for that and it was very unprofessional and disrespectful to the victims and the families. IMO Judge Judge should be ashamed of himself


^^^ I have often wondered if this could be done as well. Maybe there is some defect or scientific explanation like CTE in football players

^^^ Bingo, see above

RBBM: From his demeanour I suspect Judge John Judge has the capacity for shame and very likely does/did feel ashamed. MOO. I'm not saying you're suggesting this but I'm sure that the Judge was not intentionally being disrespectful. Ofcourse to the victims' families,understandably, may have and probably did feel disrespected. The whole incident is very unfortunate but I hope all parties will be able to move on. MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

I really don't know, but given the publicity and geographical proximity, perhaps the Monroe County DA feared a public backlash if s/he did NOT ask the Kohbergers about their son's whereabouts when the deceased woman went missing.

ETA another poster above wrote that s/he had been reading and posting on the relevant thread, so apparently there IS a thread here for Dana Smithers' case.

Yup.

PA - Dana Kristine Smithers, 45, Stroudsburg, 28 May 2022 *found deceased in 2023, poss. tied to Bryan Kohberger*

MOO She got home and an intruder was in her house. She had phone walking from friends house, her phone was found in her home after disappearance. Good thought- I’d be really curious as to the placement of her phone at the house - was it on a table (if she just set it down before walking out the...

www.websleuths.com

 

[wary]

I was wondering exactly the same thing. I don't know much about the DS case. But is it possible the DA in PA was waiting to go to a GJ to investigate further or to bring charges against X once the body was found? (Yes, we all know charges can be brought without a body but it's certainly not ideal.)

Someone here wrote something along the lines of "BK very likely was involved in this other murder since it was near his house." I strongly disagree geography creates that level of likelihood, but is it possible the DA feared the Grand Jurors would think the same thing? And if they did, they'd refuse to indict the ham sandwich the DA put in front of them?
JMO

In the last few months, if, (and it’s a big if,) by any chance LE had evidence that pointed to BK, they wouldn’t have had to take any fast action, since he was safely locked up on the Idaho charges. But finding Dana’s body could definitely have set legal proceedings in motion. We’ll see!

 

[Nila Aella]

Although I can't produce the first one because the link is gone, I do remember that being part of the original discovery request by the prosecution, too. It's required that the defense provide that so no surprise that it's included. imo.

Interesting. Do you recall if it was typed in all capital letters then too?
I have seen the prosecution ask this before in cases, but not in all caps. MOO

 

[NCWatcher]

I feel strongly that the family of victims should have a minimal part in deciding punishment. Our society should not be governed by private vengeance or private forgiveness.

MOO—passionately believed

I agree 100%.

While we are all sympathetic to the plight of the families in the run up to trials and during trials, criminal proceedings (including the awarding punishment to those found guilty) are not held primarily for the benefit of the families. The crime-- whether it's murder or something else-- isn't a crime against a family per se--- it's a crime against society. And while we don't look forward to seeing family members undergo difficult courtroom experiences including cross-examinations, the emotional experiences of the families (or other victims) cannot dictate what is appropriate during a trial that could deprive an individual of his/her liberty or his/her life. And if we did that, and gave a big role to the family in deciding things like punishment, should the big family of a victim--lots of adult sibs, for example-- have a larger say than a family consisting only of a widowed mother? What about victims who have no surviving family members? Do we care less about crimes against them than crimes against those with big families? Should "louder" families who are more willing to speak up have a larger say than "quieter" families?

All in all it's simpler to recognize it's not all about the families (even though families may disagree.) Trials for murder aren't all about the murder victims either (something families often don't understand.) That's certainly not to say no one cares about victims or surviving family members. Obviously as a society we have put things in place such as reserved seating at trials, the opportunity to make impact statements at sentencing, the right to attend executions, the right to pursue civil penalties against criminal perpetrators, and so on that recognize the effect of the crime on the family. But criminal trials are to help maintain an orderly society and to prevent vigilante justice, not to seek a preferred form of vengeance for a family.

In this case, an earlier post suggested 3 of the 4 families of the victims would want the DP sought and their desire should be followed. I don't know if those numbers are right. But do we really want punishment to be determined by "majority rule" with the only votes cast by people deep in grief?
JMO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Wow, it must be surreal to have been following two different cases / threads (Dana Smithers since a year ago, and Xana, Ethan, Kaylee and Maddie's since 6 months ago), and for them to be merging in parallel on some levels for now, with BK connections and Grand Juries.

I guess it's not unprecedented, but still mind blowing too, for 1 person to potentially be a party to multiple death investigations.

Not exactly the same, but something similar happened after Alec Murdaugh was recently convicted of murdering his wife and son (Maggie and Paul), after which two other previous deaths of people within his family's circle that were the "accidental" or "unexplained" deaths of Gloria Satterfield (their family housekeeper/nanny who fell down the stairs of their home) and Stephen Smith (a classmate of his surviving son Buster who was found deceased in the middle of the road not far from their home) are being reinvestigated.

In the case of Dana Smithers, I wonder if her being "just found a few weeks ago" when she had been missing for close to a year, was the result of PA LE looking into unsolved disappearances / cold cases that occurred when BK lived there, and them digging deeper and finding her through renewed efforts to follow leads? Or if her body was found randomly by a passerby? I'm leaning towards the former due to the Grand Jury, and his parents being subpoenaed.

I too feel like there must be some concrete evidence or a connection that implicates BK in Dana's death, for a Grand Jury to be formed, and his parents to be subpoenaed.

Whether or not his parents remember anything about his whereabouts or behavior around the time of her disappearance (if it goes towards his alibi), I think LE has to ask them and try to vet that, whatever or whether they may recall.

For example, I could see if she disappeared/was last seen on the ring camera leaving her friend's house at around 11:30 pm on a weekend night (after the festival), and his parents testify that they are usually night owls and/or stay up later on weekends and don't remember a time during last spring (would he have just graduated from DeSales, and if so, could that be a benchmark for them?) when they went to bed without seeing him come in, then that could be material or valuable testimony.

OTOH, if they say they go to bed early and are usually in bed by 10 pm and their adult son was sometimes out late on the weekend and they wouldn't know when he came home, that would also be valuable.

JMO

I was also following Dana's case last summer. I checked in periodically on that case now and then and if you read the thread, you'll see that after BK's arrest in January, someone brought up the possibility he was connected with Dana's case. A few people on that thread thought it was a real possibility due to physical proximity. It'll be interesting to see what they have. I'm intrigued by the possibility of the ID cards. JMO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I was very surprised to see the Pappa Rodgers stuff resurface in the Dateline show.
It was my understanding that this account had been debunked. Furthermore the account fell silent because it had been removed by admins, coincidentally the night before BK's arrest.
Additionally, contrary to what Dateline claims, the sheath stuff had been surmised by other posters on social media before Pappa Rodgers posted about it, I can't source that here but look around and you will find discussions of it.
View attachment 424509
Source (scroll way down): Sleuths claim to have spotted Idaho suspect Bryan Kohberger at vigil

Including here on WS, as discussed in Thread 80. A couple of posters mentioned early on if investigators knew what they were looking for, they likely have the sheath. MOO

 

[arielilane]

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger's parents called to testify

Michael and Maryann Kohberger will testify in court over the disappearance of Pennsylvania woman Dana Smithers.

www.dailymail.co.uk

5/25/2023

Michael is expected to testify in court on Thursday while Maryann has already given her testimony.

The transcripts from the closed session may be transferred to Idaho where their son is expected to go to trial on October 2.