4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #83

[ChatteringBirds]

This tragedy seems to be breaking news:

Police said they responded to King Road for a report of an unconscious person. When officers arrived, they “discovered four individuals who were deceased...”

4 Idaho college students killed in 'targeted attack,' no suspects in custody

Four University of Idaho students were found dead on Sunday, officials said.

abcnews.go.com

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Media Thread/No Discussion

Probable Cause Affidavit

Press photo album (compilation courtesy of WS member cujenn81)

Moscow ID Police Department Facebook page

City of Moscow re King Road Homicide

Media Guide to the Idaho Courts

Detectives are looking to develop context for the events and people involved in the four murders at 1122 King Rd in Moscow, Idaho. Anyone who observed notable behavior, has video surveillance, or can provide relevant information about these murders:

• Telephone: 208-883-7180
• Email: tipline@ci.moscow.id.us
• Digital Media: fbi.gov/moscowidaho

Thread #81 Thread #82

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN REMINDER:

It is okay for members to discuss Visual Snow Syndrome because it was referenced by BK himself in his social media. Also, iirc, a BK family member had referred to him having or possibly having OCD. Those two conditions may be discussed because they are sourced to the accused himself and to his family members.

What members can not discuss are other random mental health conditions beyond those specified above. None of us is in a position to diagnose the mental health of a person we have never met. Introducing various and sundry, potential diagnoses only serves to derail the thread with opinions, debate, unrelated personal anecdotes, etc that may end up not being remotely related to this case.

Thank you.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Speculation must be based on some known fact. Posts about a confidential informant are not based on known fact and it is at times being stated as fact.

Many posts have been removed. Please move on from that discussion.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN REMINDER:

As per TOS, general discussion of the death penalty is one issue that is not allowed. In our experience, it only leads to bickering over personal beliefs. It is a social justice issue that will never be resolved through discussion at Websleuths. Members may discuss it as it relates directly to the potential of it being on the table in this specific case.

Same with politicizing. Political discussion in any fashion is a violation of TOS. IOW, reference to the Dems/Reps, blues/reds, etc has no place in this discussion. Politicizing is one violation that may result in permanent Warning Points being assigned.

Please familiarize yourselves with TOS and post accordingly.

Thanks !!

 

[Sillybilly]

Pappa Rodger has now been mentioned by MSM (Dateline) so I think we can discuss. I have discussed the FB persona quite a bit. There are more articles than just Dateline, I believe.

The account was deleted after BK was arrested, but fell silent when he was arrested. I believe there were interactions between FB and the Latah County investigators.

Pappa Rodger is, I believe, the right spelling. Again, we don't really know, but the MSM is interested in it - and there was interest from LE in the account, as well.

IMO.

We approved discussion of the Pappa Rodger Reddit account back in January. (I'm not aware of a separate FB account.)

Just for the record going forward, it was specifically stated that the Pappa Rodger Reddit account was removed by Reddit prior to BK's arrest:

from: Bryan Kohberger believed to have joined online discussion groups

An admin of the group later clarified that despite Rodgers' apparent authority in the group, he was never an admin or moderator.

Kristine Cameron, wrote: 'He was on her and argued incessantly with people and said some really creepy stuff and posted similar questions to Bryan's crime questions.

'We removed Pappa Rodgers at 7:10 the evening before Bryan's arrest. He created a group page and had 6 people in it.

'No one has heard from Pappa Rodger since the arrest.'

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

For those members who may have forgotten, discussion about the skinned dog is off limits:

ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 10

I know we can’t speculate but the dynamic of K and her ex’s relationship would be interesting to know in more detail. Who broke it off initially, why, was there hesitation from one of them about getting back together? She seemed to be starting a new life so was anyone feeling left behind? Was...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE

This post lands at random.

Okay folks, bleach was speculation so please move on from that discussion.

As for what unsavory types might read here and get hints about, I'm sure there are a zillion other things they would zero in on. We can't control the universe, and we've never yet heard a perp exclaim "I did it because I read it on Websleuths"

 

[maconrich]

Re the UPS search warrant for delivery truck video from Moscow. Date of warrant can be seen at the link.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20United%20Parcel%20Service%20UPS.pdf

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

Re the UPS search warrant for delivery truck video from Moscow. Date of warrant can be seen at the link.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20United%20Parcel%20Service%20UPS.pdf

Thanks for the reminder that the UPS delivery truck video search warrant was all of Moscow, not specifically for 1122 King Rd.

 

[maconrich]

Thanks for the reminder that the UPS delivery truck video search warrant was all of Moscow, not specifically for 1122 King Rd.

You're welcome That's a good stretch of time. Wonder if they found what they were looking for.

 

[Nova]

I feel so sorry for the people who get selected with the anecdotes they will hear and the photos they may see. Not nice at all and certainly very difficult times....

I believe I mentioned before that I was a juror on a stabbing-murder case in Santa Monica.

Ten stabs with a knife similar to the size of a Ka-Bar. We were shown half a dozen photos of EACH stab wound; and the coroner testified as to depth, width, what was severed and whether the wound would have been mortal on its own ("yes") for each and every one of ten wounds.

It was a truly gruesome day and I am not in the least bit squeamish.

So, yeah, I am agreeing with you! The jurors will see images they will never be able to forget.

 

[Boxer]

I believe I mentioned before that I was a juror on a stabbing-murder case in Santa Monica.

Ten stabs with a knife similar to the size of a Ka-Bar. We were shown half a dozen photos of EACH stab wound; and the coroner testified as to depth, width, what was severed and whether the wound would have been mortal on its own ("yes") for each and every one of ten wounds.

It was a truly gruesome day and I am not in the least bit squeamish.

So, yeah, I am agreeing with you! The jurors will see images they will never be able to forget.

Jurors. They do very hard job.

 

[katydid23]

Anne Taylor quite literally explains the very reason for an exception or extension of time in the motion. And the reason is the sheer complexity of the case due to the multiple charges and the large volume of evidence, it's going to take longer far longer than usual to prepare an alibi for defense.

It's also not out of the realm of possibility to discover an alibi in evidence that the defence simply hasn't had the opportunity to go over.

Alibi= providing an account of one's whereabouts at the time of an alleged act.

How does the multiple charges [4 murders] make it more complex to say where one was during that crucial span of time?

How does the large volume of evidence affect his alibi? If he knows where he was at that crucial time, say so.

How does anyone else's evidence affect his alibi, IF it is a true account of his whereabouts?

How does one 'discover' an alibi in evidence? Does that mean they can craft one from evidence? Is that what is being suggested here?

 

[katydid23]

Snipped for focus. It really bugs the way the media is using "the good of the community" approach to get what they want. If they really cared about the community getting to observe the trial, they'd ask for a closed circuit feed only for Moscow residents with a gag order on wider dissemination.

MOO.

No one else in this country has the right to follow the murder trial?

 

[katydid23]

IANAL but I think an "alibi" may be more than just "defendant's mother says he was home watching The Price Is Right".

It might also be security footage--not yet located--showing BK's car elsewhere during the killings. I AM NOT SAYING such evidence exists, just that the defense may still be looking for it.

If the defendant was home with someone, watching the Price Is Right, this is the time to say so.

If he was home asleep, say so. If he was out driving around to help him relax and get ready to go home and sleep, this is the time to say so.

They can still look for evidence to bolster their alibi for the trial, for the next several months or more probably. But he knows where he was so why not say so?

 

[katydid23]

Perhaps it's just me, but I actually think that's pretty powerful, especially ending with he stood silent.

It depends upon the actual facts of the case, IMO. If it turns out he is innocent, then it would be a powerful move. But if he is actually guilty then it is pathetic, IMO.

 

[AusLaw]

Alibi= providing an account of one's whereabouts at the time of an alleged act.

How does the multiple charges [4 murders] make it more complex to say where one was during that crucial span of time?

How does the large volume of evidence affect his alibi? If he knows where he was at that crucial time, say so.

How does anyone else's evidence affect his alibi, IF it is a true account of his whereabouts?

How does one 'discover' an alibi in evidence? Does that mean they can craft one from evidence? Is that what is being suggested here?

The complexity of a case involving multiple charges and a large volume of evidence can significantly impact the process of establishing an alibi.

In the context of this case, Kohberger's attorneys are dealing with 51 terabytes of information which you can view here.
This includes thousands of pages of discovery, thousands of photographs, hundreds of hours of recordings, and extensive electronic phone record and social media data. So it's not as simple as "providing an account of one's whereabouts at the time of an alleged act" as you claim.

The defense must carefully review the enormous amount of evidence to understand the case against Kohberger and find any evidence that supports his potential alibi.

Now regarding your question about 'discovering' an alibi in evidence, it's not about crafting an alibi but finding evidence that corroborates the Kohberger's claimed whereabouts at the time of the offenses. For example, the defense could find a timestamped video in the evidence that shows the defendant at a different location when the crime was committed as claimed by the prosecution.

Therefore, the multiple charges and the large volume of evidence make the process of establishing an alibi more complex and time-consuming, which is why the defense is seeking an exception or extension of time to comply with Idaho Code 19-519.

 

[jepop]

I did look back at a couple of the early press conferences this morning, viewing them with the knowledge we have now and to see if it was worth going back in detail to watch them:

First one I looked at:

Not sure if door was unlocked, no damage, and door was still open when LE arrived
No party that night at the home that they know of
Two were home (in reply to a reporter : CF said "I did not say they were witnesses")
Targeted attack
Unconcious person call: LE went in to do caregiving check on individual that was unconcious
Nothing from the home missing that they could identify

Second one:

Lanier:
Call originated inside residence using survivor phone, dispatcher talked to multiple people on scene (this made me wonder if there were multiple people inside the home? or did the caller exit the home and then the dispatcher talked to multiple people?)
4 stabbed multiple times, likely asleep, no sign of sexual assault

I think I will go back and look at them in detail. And, also thinking it might be enlightening to check all the answers to press questions/statements made to press by authorities in those early days after the crime. MOO

Just rewatched these two in full. First seems to be about three days later and second after that, but both within a week of the crimes. What stood out to me most was the repeated statements by Chief Fry and ISP Captain Kendrick Wills that all angles/people, all potential links and every tip were being subject to thorough follow through. Also the early belief re this being a targetted attack, based on the totality of evidence so far. The initial/early anlaysis crime scene itself I speculate was a key piece of this totality that informed that view. Clearly some of the media were fixated (MOO) on the 911 call, timing and so forth. I feel for chief Fry trying to field those questions, knowing that protecting the surviving roommates' privacy and their status being present in the house at the time, their possible future role as witnesses in the case, in addition to the integrity of the nascent investigation were likely the prime motivators Imoo.

 

[jepop]

Great idea! Excellent articles! TY
Wouldn't medical related be an excuse defense? Guilty but Insane
as opposed to an alibi defense = Title 19?
Not really sure. MOO

Your linked article describes the guilty but insane condition very well - basically the judge can take into consideration the mental state at sentencing because they really don't have an insanity defense in ID Interesting information on that and how/if/when it gets used in sentencing.
MOO


CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
CHAPTER 5
COMPLAINT AND WARRANT OF ARREST
19-519. NOTICE OF DEFENSE OF ALIBI. (1) At any time after arraignment before a magistrate upon a complaint and upon written demand of the prosecuting attorney, the defendant shall serve, within ten (10) days or at such different time as the court may direct, upon the prosecuting attorney, a written notice of his intention to offer a defense of alibi. Such notice by the defendant shall state the specific place or places at which the defendant claims to have been at the time of the alleged offense and the names and addresses of the witnesses upon whom he intends to rely to establish such alibi.
(2) Within ten (10) days after receipt of the defendant’s notice of alibi but in no event less than ten (10) days before trial, unless the court otherwise directs, the prosecuting attorney shall serve upon the defendant or his attorney a written notice stating the names and addresses of the witnesses upon whom the prosecution intends to rely to establish the defendant’s presence at the scene of the alleged offense and any other witnesses to be relied on to rebut testimony of any of the defendant’s alibi witnesses.
(3) If prior to or during trial a party learns of an additional witness whose identity, if known, should have been included in the information furnished under subsection (1) or subsection (2) of this section, the party shall promptly notify the other party or his attorney of the existence and identity of such additional witness.
(4) Upon the failure of either party to comply with the requirements of this section, the court may exclude the testimony of any undisclosed witness offered by such party as to the defendant’s absence from or presence at, the scene of the alleged offense. This section shall not limit the right of the defendant to testify in his own behalf.
(5) For good cause shown the court may grant an exception to any of the requirements of subsections (1) through (4) of this section.
History:
[19-519, added 1978, ch. 301, sec. 1, p. 758.]

Title 18: mental condition not a defense

Section 18-207 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

Mental illness in sentencing

Section 19-2523 – Idaho State Legislature

legislature.idaho.gov

RBBM: Re alibi defense I agree. It is a particular and clearly defined defense as you have outlined above per ICR, criminal procedure (?) 19-5 . If defense do file one,then there are requirements that the prosecution must subsequently meet as well. The latest filing by the defense is asking for an extension of time to make a decision on whether to file one or not, Imo. They are doing this as per subsection (5) "For good cause shown...". Moo

 

[Nila Aella]

Re the UPS search warrant for delivery truck video from Moscow. Date of warrant can be seen at the link.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/030723%20Order%20to%20Seal%20%20Redact%20-%20United%20Parcel%20Service%20UPS.pdf

You're welcome That's a good stretch of time. Wonder if they found what they were looking for.

I take into account the search warrant reasons for sealing. In this case there was no mention of 6th Ammend noted in the latest sealing of the warrant. JMO

Big huge thanks to Sister Golden Hair for teaching me Excel through DM's! Still working out how to share it (line up of headings is a little off)

Warrant

Privacy

Intimate Facts

Endanger

Confidential

Enforcement

Invest Tech

Fair Trial

sealed title

Individual/item

03/07/2023 Order to Seal and Redact (United Parcel Service)

no

yes

no

no

no

no

no

Nov 6-14 delivery video

MOO