4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #83

[Cool Cats]

Above snipped for focus

I doubt there was an "all call" command either. Everyone was spooked enough and we know many students left school. However, considering that at least one person's DNA was obtained from a discarded cigarette, I assume LE did ask various people and were either turned down or denied a subpoena.

It makes sense that they wanted samples from known associates and perhaps people seen with or near victims that night. So, what made them stop (if they have) trying to identify the 2 additional males whose DNA was in the house? The glove with unknown DNA was mentioned in the evidence, so why did they decided not to pursue that person? I would be most interested in the DNA from the glove (wonder what type it is) because It's reasonable to assume that the killer was wearing gloves.

LE cannot force innocent NOT arrested people to give DNA samples. Not everyone would agree to this.

Who said they stopped tying to identify this unknown DNA. Does it specifically say this?

How can they pursue "this person" when they do not know who left the DNA?

LE has limited means to identify DNA. Run it through LE DNA databases and track down matching relatives through commercial genealogy sites and those sites can say "no."

DNA is left unidentified all over the Country sitting in evidence lockers.
This does not stop jury convictions.

Red Herring

2 Cents

 

[katydid23]

IMO, that isn't the type of thing that is likely to happen with 3 separate individuals. First of all, DNA doesn't remain forever. So if someone was in that house for a party in June, the likelihood of his DNA being there in November is about nil.

There were reports of parties happening that very week. Certainly had been get togethers way closer to November than June. Some neighbours had said there were people there that same night, before the victims all went out, didn't they?

Second, IMO, LE would have interviewed and/or put out a call for the entire student body who's been in that house in the last few months to come forward if they really wanted to rule out the 3 unknown males.

Why would we expect everyone to come forward and put themself in that house, if they thought their DNA might be there? Pretty risky if they don't have a solid alibi for the murder night.

How do they know those 3 men didn't play a role in this? Even if they're 100% sold on BK being the killer, how can they definitively rule out an accomplice without at least trying to figure out who those 3 men were to clear them? Seems to me LE was happy to get their guy. I would be too, but I still believe if he's guilty, he didn't act alone.

MOO.

 

[Balthazar]

I believe LE would have talked to the DD driver and already ID's his/her car, and I don't think the prosecution would use anything questionable in the PCA. However, an area of concern for me is that the PCA doesn't include any footage of the white elantra between 2:53am near SE Nevada St. in Pullman, and going westbound on Indian Hills Dr. in Moscow at 3:26. Do they have footage of that white elantra actually leaving Pullman and entering Moscow, or anywhere in between during those 33 minutes? Maybe at the time of the PCA they didn't have it yet, but IDK...I question that.

What if it was another delivery driver for another house or apartment in the area (not 1122 King Rd) that was lost - not Xana's DD? Or what if it was someone looking for a party to crash or the guest of a neighbor who had not been to their friend's home before so didn't know exactly where to go?

I've always thought there was a serious lack of logic in the car circling and backing up and trying to make a 3 point turn if the driver were the murderer because if it were someone who had been stalking this house at least 12 times as the PCA claims and was therefore familiar with the area, they would have logically gone to the parking lot by the apartments or to Walenta Dr. to wait and watch for the lights to go out so they would know when that happened and could time their entrance to the house for about 30 minutes later to make sure the residents were most likely asleep. Circling 3 or 4 times and then driving off and coming back, IMO, is not the logical way to handle this situation.

I also agree about the lack of information between 2:53am and 3:26am. How could they not find any video of the vehicle leaving Pullman and entering Moscow? They should have been able to trace the vehicle's movements in Moscow at the very least, IMO.

 

[Megnut]

What time was the noise disturbance call, or whatever it was that invited a LE presence on campus?

1. Could BK have called that in? Throw the cat a mouse so you can slip a rat in.

2. Could BK have intended to commit his crime prior? Did the presence of LE spook him so he aborted, then circled back?

 

[Balthazar]

What time was the noise disturbance call, or whatever it was that invited a LE presence on campus?

1. Could BK have called that in? Throw the cat a mouse so you can slip a rat in.

2. Could BK have intended to commit his crime prior? Did the presence of LE spook him so he aborted, then circled back?

Are you talking about the nearby alcohol enforcement police bodycam where several young men were questioned and several people are seen running in front of 1122 King Rd in the distant background? The timestamp at the start is 2:54am and it continues through around 3:15am.

There was nothing to call in. On any given Friday or Saturday night (or both) LE will typically do alcohol enforcement on any college campus in the US because there is a mix of people from ages 18 up all partying together and 21 is the drinking age so the likelihood of finding underage people who have been or are drinking is quite high.

The alcohol enforcement occurred about 1 city block away from the house on King Rd and I really don't think there is any chance the killer would have seen or known about it.

 

[I'm Nobody]

RE: Bicka Barlow, new defense consultant for DNA
BBM

• 06/22/2023 Declaration of Anne C Taylor in Support of Defendants Third Motion to Compel
• 06/22/2023 Defendant's Third Motion to Compel Discovery
• 06/22/2023 Notice of Filing Declaration of Bicka Barlow in Support of Def Third Motion to Compel
• 06/22/2023 Notice of Filing Declaration of Stephen B Mercer in Support of Def Third Motion to Compel
• 06/22/2023 Objection to States Motion for Protective Order
• 06/23/2023 Defendants Motion to Shorten Time
• 06/23/2023 Notice of Hearing Defendants 3rd Motion to Compel

Thank you again for posting these @Nila Aella
lawyer-to-lawyer talks w/ Bicka Barlow about issues with DNA profiles from Genealogical Sites & Privacy issues.
They were talking about Golden State Killer and
DNA techniques attorney's use today 2018

IMO Bicka Barlow is a heavy hitter re DNA.
Prediction: BB will be giving reasons she needs more time to examine the DNA evidence issues
and her consulting will be long-term through the whole trial .


Interesting Barlow talks concerns with PRIVACY of people who use genealogical sites, misinterpreted sources from these websites, lab's history of mistakes. BB at apprx 11:00

Bicka Barlow - Legal Talk Network

Attorney Bicka Barlow is from the Law Office of Bicka Barlow. In 2004, Ms. Barlow became the DNA attorney for the San Francisco Public Defender’s Office

legaltalknetwork.com

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

From: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/062323 Objection to States Motion for Protective Order.pdf
View attachment 430900

1. The knife sheath with his DNA on it, partially under Maddie, is a connection.
2. Have we verified the DMs he supposedly sent to one or more of the girls? That would be a connection.
3. If they have his car driving back and forth in front of 1122 King Rd on video, that would be a connection.
4. If his phone "kissed" the 1122 King Rd wi-fi, that would be a connection.

Just for starters.....

The Defense is spinning their theories while working around the gag order IMO. So much for not trying the case in the public eye. Hah

Just because they state something, doesn't make it true. They are so desperate to get that GJ information.

ALL MOO

 

[Megnut]

Are you talking about the nearby alcohol enforcement police bodycam where several young men were questioned and several people are seen running in front of 1122 King Rd in the distant background? The timestamp at the start is 2:54am and it continues through around 3:15am.

There was nothing to call in. On any given Friday or Saturday night (or both) LE will typically do alcohol enforcement on any college campus in the US because there is a mix of people from ages 18 up all partying together and 21 is the drinking age so the likelihood of finding underage people who have been or are drinking is quite high.

The alcohol enforcement occurred about 1 city block away from the house on King Rd and I really don't think there is any chance the killers would have seen or known about it.

Yes, this.

Maybe BK encountered a police presence or cruiser and that's why he circled away for a time.

Jmo

 

[Balthazar]

The Defense is spinning their theories while working around the gag order IMO. So much for not trying the case in the public eye. Hah

Just because they state something, doesn't make it true. They are so desperate to get that GJ information.

ALL MOO

Lawyers are not allowed to make false statements or fail to disclose any material that would be necessary to the case to prove innocence or guilt. This can be considered assisting in criminal conduct by the lawyer. Keep in mind that lawyers must tell the truth all the time. If they are caught making false statements or putting something false in a court filing, they can wind up being punished by the Bar Association, fired or even lose their license.

 

[Balthazar]

Yes, this.

Maybe BK encountered a police presence or cruiser and that's why he circled away for a time.

Jmo

The police were driving an unmarked electric car for alcohol enforcement that night so I doubt anyone would notice the police were there. It looked to me like they were on Taylor Avenue and then standing in the middle of the field near Sigma Chi and Alpha Gamma Delta with the young men they were questioning about alcohol.

 

[Cool Cats]

Yes, this.

Maybe BK encountered a police presence or cruiser and that's why he circled away for a time.

Jmo

Or he was waiting for door dash to leave the area.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

DNA

How long does DNA last?

www.sciencefocus.com

Exploring the limits for the survival of DNA in blood stains - PubMed

It is generally recognized that usable DNA may be retained in dry biological stains for years. We have explored the environmental limits for this property. Air-dried blood stains were incubated at different conditions of relative humidity (RH) and temperature. The quality of the extracted DNA...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Ancient DNA analysis - Nature Reviews Methods Primers

This Primer outlines the best ways to find, handle and analyse ancient DNA from various sources. The authors summarize ethical considerations and the importance of working closely with all stakeholders, including archaeologists, curators and descendant communities.

www.nature.com

https://academic.oup.com/dnaresearch

Those links are irrelevant to what we're talking about. We're not talking about ancient undisturbed DNA nor blood DNA. We're talking about DNA of people in a party house. When you have people constantly coming in and out of your home, the chances DNA left by some visitor on a table or on a lamp survives 6 months and hundreds of party-goers later is very unlikely, IMO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Well afaik no crime was committed in his car office or apartment.
There is probably no dNA in his granny's house or his cousin's yacht either.
Essentially it's a strawman argument.
This boy knew what a hazmat suit was and what it did and it would not have been too difficult to rig up something similar and change into it at any stage.

It's not at all a strawman argument. Not one bit. If it were, then LE wouldn't have even bothered with a warrant for those places. People wouldn't have been on pins and needles waiting for the inventory list to come out. People wouldn't debate for weeks on end whether or not he had 10 curls stashed away in a box. It's a legitimate point. But it does seem to me that the goal posts are constantly being moved when we find out more information about this case.

MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

From: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/062323 Objection to States Motion for Protective Order.pdf

View attachment 430890

Perhaps the Prosecution has evidence of clean up, which might be used at trial. Or perhaps, the FBI hasn't completed the processing of the car. AT did ask in her Motion to Compel:

If they had evidence of cleanup, that would have been part of discovery. The defense is entitled to that information, so the statement "there is no explanation..." wouldn't be accurate.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Lawyers are not allowed to make false statements or fail to disclose any material that would be necessary to the case to prove innocence or guilt. This can be considered assisting in criminal conduct by the lawyer. Keep in mind that lawyers must tell the truth all the time. If they are caught making false statements or putting something false in a court filing, they can wind up be punished by the Bar Association, fired or even lose their license.

I'm well aware of that, thanks.

Read BK's lawyer Jay Weston Logsdon's latest motion, he makes some pretty bold accusations and insinuations against the State that he has no evidence of, it's his opinion.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case...ion to States Motion for Protective Order.pdf

MOO

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Not that I recall. I went back and checked the body cam again. I see the Police car. A truck pass by right to left. And a car that comes from left to right. The car is hard for me to see clearly. I can't tell if it is white. I don't see a front plate, but it is blurry there and the lighting IMO isn't good. As it passes, the front end does not look like an elantra, to me anyway. And I don't see an angle to the back window. Overall very difficult to see though. I also recall LE saying that it was not the car they were interested in. JMO

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjV_oPxstz_AhVDFVkFHec7DjYQFnoECA0QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.khq.com%2Fnews%2Fidaho-murders%2Fmoscow-police-body-camera-footage-showing-white-car-unrelated-to-murder-investigation%2Farticle_4069f036-7769-11ed-b22f-971c4bf3fbb3.html&usg=AOvVaw0SDhaCJOKTPz8fvq0UFwgy&opi=89978449

edit: added link to article LE states not related

Well then, hopefully, their reasoning for saying it's unrelated is part of discovery.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Worth noting: LE doesn't close every loop. Time and money are limiting factors. Always. Few cases are beyond all doubt.

Every good defense attorney will exploit that line.

You might think there's a second white car involved, that there are two other perpetrators or accomplices and that BK might be innocent because his car is clean.

But we don't have the whole story.

LE might've run checks on 100 DNA profiles, all matching party goers, all of whom have confirmed alibis. That's not going to show up in a PCA. The two that were tested and yet unmatched, maybe they've been matched since and checked out. Maybe the location of the DNA left it low priority. Basement shower, for instance. Thermostat, for instance. DD bag, for instance. Things that were most assuredly touched, just not relevant to the crime.

I mean, that goes both ways. Maybe LE didn't run checks, maybe they didn't bother to confirm all those alibis, maybe as AT says, there are still 3 unaccounted for who may have been relevant to the crime or crime scene. IMO, benefit of doubt shouldn't just go one way.

The car. Perhaps LE misidentified it early. That's not a mistake or failure, that's just "early in the investigation". We all have bias. Maybe one investigator was "sure" it was a Sentra because of personal knowledge and only later was that assumption challenged. Or maybe LE didn't have all the footage yet and only had information on a Sentra, later ruled out.

By definition, it's a mistake. A Sentra looks nothing like an Elantra. Not at all. We can excuse one error, but when the holes start to widen the way they are in this case, I think it's naïve to think it won't affect anything or can be easily written off.

MOO.

 

[Cool Cats]

Those links are irrelevant to what we're talking about. We're not talking about ancient undisturbed DNA nor blood DNA. We're talking about DNA of people in a party house. When you have people constantly coming in and out of your home, the chances DNA left by some visitor on a table or on a lamp survives 6 months and hundreds of party-goers later is very unlikely, IMO.

What? No one came to the house in the weeks before the murders?

What does 6 months have to do with it? Those 6 probably didn't even live there in May 2022.

Obviously, the unknown DNA was left in the time frame allotted to it being preserved. Could be that weekend could be weeks before.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

From what we know, there is no evidence whatsoever that LE "put out a call" for the entire student body to come forward if you were in that house on King Rd. Unrealistic.

LE has no legal right to go around demanding DNA from anyone.

DNA is all over the place, it doesn't change the evidence against BK that there is other DNA found. If someone else helped BK that night then it doesn't change BK's guilt.

3 guys went and killed 8 people in 4 places, blood was all over the floor at one of the places and they dragged a bleeding body and walked in blood leaving shoe prints, etc...

Even so, no victim DNA was found in their 2 vehicles they drove to the crime scenes and they did not leave any of their DNA behind. On top of that there were several unidentified DNA's recovered throughout the 4 crime scenes that did not match the defendants or the victims.

Defense told jury all this and jury didn't care, guy was found guilty on the evidence they presented.

The jury goes by the evidence presented. BK will be found guilty on overwhelming evidence, of which, the defense is buried in right now.

The lawyers on here are surprised by how much evidence there is. One said it is the most she has ever seen in her experience.

2 Cents

I never said LE did that nor that they had the right to do that, but LE quite often DOES do that. They get DNA from anyone associated, including anyone who had contact with the victim/victims. Associates are free to decline, but it isn't crazy to think LE would have gone down that route.

<modsnip>

JMO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

It does concern me that the vehicle footage has not been released to the defense. It makes me think the prosecution knows something is wrong with it. Do we know for sure the white vehicle that circled and tried to make a 3 point turn but failed wasn't the DD driver who was lost? Because one thing I noticed immediately about 1122 King Rd is that the parking area/driveway and front of the house faces Queen Rd not King Rd. Could that vehicle have been a delivery driver who was trying to find the house and struggling due to the house not actually being on King Rd? From Googlemaps:View attachment 430908

I also still recall that no picture of the actual vehicle was ever released by LE to the general public. All we have seen is a grainy picture from a camera on a gas station/convenience store that we only got to see because the convenience store clerk told a reporter which may or may not be the same vehicle.

There is one other car in the bodycam footage near the home at 3ish am. IMO, it's a white car.

Point is, seems there were at least 2 or more vehicles in that neighborhood between the hours of 3 - 5 am that morning.

MOO.