4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #83

[BeginnerSleuther]

Yes, absolutely agree.
The car on the bodycam during the alcohol offense actually lines up with the Taylor car captured at 2:45-3:15 range (not sure if that is what you initially meant - if so Thank you! I never put the two together) Looking at a map, Band field is on Taylor. Now wondering if this looks like a Sentra? Have to go look again. MOO

Yeah, I'm wondering if that's how the idea of the Sentra was introduced.

 

[Balthazar]

I'm confident the grand jury had a good understanding of the evidence when they indicted BK on 4 counts of 1st degree murder and 1 count of burglary.

I'm confident the ME was able to conclude the knife that fit into the sheath was the murder weapon.

I'm confident that LE and, now, the DA knows when and where BK purchased the knife sheath.

No DNA in BK's car, apartment, etc., is irrelevant because they collected BK's DNA evidence next to two victims' bodies.

JMO

Apparently LE DOES NOT know when or where BK purchased the knife or sheath. Apparently the knives taken from BK's parents house were not used in the murders. It would have been in the discovery and Anne Taylor wrote there was nothing else linking BK to the murders. Nothing at all. That is what is so alarming about this latest document drop.

 

[Nila Aella]

What if it was another delivery driver for another house or apartment in the area (not 1122 King Rd) that was lost - not Xana's DD? Or what if it was someone looking for a party to crash or the guest of a neighbor who had not been to their friend's home before so didn't know exactly where to go?

I've always thought there was a serious lack of logic in the car circling and backing up and trying to make a 3 point turn if the driver were the murderer because if it were someone who had been stalking this house at least 12 times as the PCA claims and was therefore familiar with the area, they would have logically gone to the parking lot by the apartments or to Walenta Dr. to wait and watch for the lights to go out so they would know when that happened and could time their entrance to the house for about 30 minutes later to make sure the residents were most likely asleep. Circling 3 or 4 times and then driving off and coming back, IMO, is not the logical way to handle this situation.

I also agree about the lack of information between 2:53am and 3:26am. How could they not find any video of the vehicle leaving Pullman and entering Moscow? They should have been able to trace the vehicle's movements in Moscow at the very least, IMO.

This! 100%. I also thought the driving description in the PCA appears to be like someone lost.
Excellent thought about a different delivery! LE checked DD drivers but it could be another delivery service or like you said someone looking for a new address.
Also, no reported capture of the car exiting the neighborhood past Walenta.
MOO

 

[schooling]

Well, I mean, a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich as the saying goes.



Do we have confirmation of that? I thought that was the theory, but I wasn't aware the ME confirmed that. Regardless, I think you're probably right that that was the murder weapon. I just don't know that the ME has or can confirm it.



Actually, they collected touch DNA, which is not at all foolproof and that's the problem.

MOO

Touch DNA isn't full proof until you present it along with video of BK's Elantra cruising by the house with his cell phone turned off at 3am in the morning. Then speeding away from the scene like he just killed 4 people.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Touch DNA isn't full proof until you present it along with video of BK's Elantra cruising by the house with his cell phone turned off at 3am in the morning. Then speeding away from the scene like he just killed 4 people.

Actually, they have video of a white car cruising by the house at 3 am. It'll be debated whether it's an Elantra (remember, they first thought it was a Sentra) and then whether it's a 2015 and then whether it belongs to BK, given that he was never seen in it and as far as we know, we don't have plates.

Everywhere we turn, there are more questions...

MOO

 

[MyBelle]

Apparently LE DOES NOT know when or where BK purchased the knife or sheath. Apparently the knives taken from BK's parents house were not used in the murders. It would have been in the discovery and Anne Taylor wrote there was nothing else linking BK to the murders. Nothing at all. That is what is so alarming about this latest document drop.

Yes, LE absolutely does know he purchased the knife and sheath from Amazon in April, 2022. If the news media is aware of it, I'm confident the defense attorney is aware of it.

JMO

Kohberger allegedly broke into female colleague’s home

Bryan Kohberger has been charged in a separate with killing four University of Idaho students.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[Idaho transplant]

Apparently LE DOES NOT know when or where BK purchased the knife or sheath. Apparently the knives taken from BK's parents house were not used in the murders. It would have been in the discovery and Anne Taylor wrote there was nothing else linking BK to the murders. Nothing at all. That is what is so alarming about this latest document drop.

Scares me to think he could commit these murders and get off! Went by the house this week, still boarded up and no sign of it being torn down. The memorials that have been left look aged.

One thing that became abundantly clear after seeing the house is that KB didn't pick that address based on location, if anything it would be one of the last choices given how close the other residences are. Probably gave him even more satisfaction that no one saw him.

I don't know why and cannot even articulate why this case absolutely terrifies me. Maybe because I have a daughter........

 

[SpiderFalcon]

@schooling:

I am looking at what she DIDN'T say in her objection:

From: https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/062323 Objection to States Motion for Protective Order.pdf

View attachment 430872



View attachment 430874View attachment 430873
What she DIDN'T SAY was that there was NO OTHER BK DNA inside the crime scene, besides the sheath.

The rest of it seems to be distraction from BK.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

The next part of my sentence says "They're not supposed to just stop if there's other evidence."

LE doesn't determine guilt or innocence. They determine reason to suspect someone of committing a crime and present probable cause for an arrest. Their job is to continue the investigation if other evidence exists.

It seems unreasonable, IMO, to expect LE to identify every piece of DNA found in a house that was so socially active. And to test and attempt to identify all the DNA would be futile as there would always be at least three more unidentified DNAs left behind. And let's not even think about how it would skyrocket their budget into the red.

I believe LE has been sensitive to the fact that they would be under scrutiny regarding the pitfall of focusing on only one suspect and how that could complicate the trial. I think they even addressed that in a general manner at one time. (I know we've discussed it here on many occasions!!!) Because of their awareness, I believe LE has already taken more care to demonstrate their inclusive investigation than what is normally the SOP. MOO.

 

[MadMcGoo]

MOD REMINDER:

With so many members posting about this case, it’s inevitable there will be differing opinions and theories. If you read a post that you do not agree with but does not violate any of the rules, KEEP SCROLLING. There is no need for all the bickering, snark and rude comments. If you feel a post violates a rule, REPORT IT. Let us handle it.

 

[10ofRods]

dead birds?
I provided you with several links actually regarding duration of DNA.

Here's another fYI, bearing in mind we do not know source of the three DNA samples.

Indoor scenarios​

For an exposure period of up to 9 months, nearly all blood and saliva samples stored in the dark resulted in complete profiles as expected (Fig. 1), since especially blood samples collected on paper or cloth are routinely stored for much longer time frames. Rather surprisingly, only 50% of blood samples and 75% of saliva samples demonstrated all alleles of the responsible individual after an exposure of 12 months. This can possibly be explained by the use of plastic as supporting material as well as the rather low amount of 20 µl blood in some samples, since these samples showed the most allele losses. Moreover, we often observed a flaking of blood samples thus reducing the amount further. Regarding epithelial abrasions, the results are quite different (Fig. 1). After 3 months, only half of samples demonstrated a complete profile, after 12 months none, not even those in the dark. Here, not UV radiation as expected but another factor seems to be relevant. Possibly the different composition of the bacterial fauna on the skin compared to, for example, the bacterial fauna in saliva could have an influence [34].

About the influence of environmental factors on the persistence of DNA — a long-term study - International Journal of Legal Medicine

DNA persistence and DNA transfer are important features in the assessment of a crime scene. The question how long DNA may persist at a certain location is similarly important as the one how the DNA has been transferred to this location. Depending on the source of the DNA as well as the...

link.springer.com

And I've provided dozens more over the past few months.

I actually work in this area and teach classes/labs on DNA and forensic DNA. I research prehistory (with DNA being the thread we're all following right now - it's so fascinating). DNA easily lasts 80,000 years in the right circumstances (scholar.google.com search term "Denisovans" for a fascinating look at old DNA). We're starting to get DNA sequences in many different ways, going back even further than that.

At any rate, DNA is so small (people have a hard time picturing it) that it can't really be crushed. It is made of something called nucleotides (very strong structures, which is good, because it is the basis of all known life). The nucleotides have survived deep space on the backs of meteors.

Complete individual copies of a particular person's genome can't be that old, because humans haven't been around that long (300,000 years). But we have DNA that's much older:

The world's oldest DNA represents a two-million-year-old ecosystem

DNA found in Greenland has broken the record for the oldest yet discovered.

www.nhm.ac.uk

And yep, it's in fragments, which is not an insoluble problem for today's genetic scientists (no one cares all that much about the 50% of DNA that all organisms share (although the earliest organisms had just that shared DNA - they are the core of life in the universe as we know it).

If we're trying to identify individuals, 100,000 years is not an impossible time frame. It's not that much affected by bleach (bleach is used in various ways in studying DNA, it does not automatically destroy it - nor does any form of alcohol or aldehyde).

And the science for finding and reuniting fragments just gets better and better.

IMO. Thank you for posting this sensible and in no way controversial summary.

 

[10ofRods]

But you don't know where the found samples were located.
They could have been anywhere from any body fluid.
'Party House' is not necessarily relevant to the location of the samples or the integrity of the bonds.
Party house just means that probably a lot of people visited the building, they didn't necessarily access the locations of the samples.

Thanks again.

People do not search for victim DNA or murderer DNA just anywhere in a house, because the entire house is filled with many people's DNA.

That's why the fact that the DNA in question is on a knife sheath and the knife (as far as we know) is a Ka-Bar that fits into that sheath. It's on the use point of the sheath, which means that anyone trying to use the sheath as a sheath would have to touch it there. ANYONE who wanted to unsnap the sheath would HAVE to touch that use point.

And there's only ONE person's DNA there (single source). It matches Bryan Kohberger's sample taken from his own cheek swab.

IMO. Whew. I realize it's tedious saying these things over and over, and I truly try to limit my (repeated) comments to just once or twice per thread. If other people want to weigh in with their opinions on DNA, it's very hard for me not to list 100's of citations.

It seems unreasonable, IMO, to expect LE to identify every piece of DNA found in a house that was so socially active. And to test and attempt to identify all the DNA would be futile as there would always be at least three more unidentified DNAs left behind. And let's not even think about how it would skyrocket their budget into the red.

I believe LE has been sensitive to the fact that they would be under scrutiny regarding the pitfall of focusing on only one suspect and how that could complicate the trial. I think they even addressed that in a general manner at one time. (I know we've discussed it here on many occasions!!!) Because of their awareness, I believe LE has already taken more care to demonstrate their inclusive investigation than what is normally the SOP. MOO.

If such a genetic expedition were necessary (and no DNA was specifically associated with a personal possession or as part of the immediate crime scene), it would still turn up interesting (and super expensive) results. There's a reason that Ms Taylor and her crew are not (even though they could) analyzing DNA from every inch of 1122 King Road. That's because no one thinks the murders were crowd-sourced. Instead, it appears that someone stabbed four people to death with ONE knife (and the sheath was recovered).

If there were six different knives and the murders occurred over several months, that would be very different.

IMO.When the DNA is on something that is part of the immediate crime scene, especially part of a weapon, it's significant. And the jury will agree as these days, the basics of DNA are taught from 5th grade onward in most US states, including Idaho. Moscow is, furthermore, an educated town. The basics of forensic DNA are taught in their curriculum in freshman and sophomore level classes. The curriculum is more technical than issues brought up here. That's why it takes education to process DNA.

IMO. It's a simple system, but it's complex in practice.

 

[gremlin444]

Apparently LE DOES NOT know when or where BK purchased the knife or sheath. Apparently the knives taken from BK's parents house were not used in the murders. It would have been in the discovery and Anne Taylor wrote there was nothing else linking BK to the murders. Nothing at all. That is what is so alarming about this latest document drop.

I read her statement differently, thinking back to legal things my sister (was an admin for a states attorney and worked with tons of legal documents) told me.

"...the investigation has provided precious little. There is no connection between Mr. Kohberger and the victims. There is no explanation for the total lack of DNA evidence from the victims in Mr. Kohberger’s apartment, office, home, or vehicle."

IMO, "there is no connection between Mr. Kohberger and the victims" = the state has not been able to show us that he knew them, they knew him, he was known to frequent their places of work, no proof of electronic interactions, etc. AT seems to be emphasizing a lack of _connection_ between BK and the victims. To me, that is not the same as not being able to link him to the murders or the knife. This objection, like most objections, is very carefully worded and then goes on to focus completely on "how was he pinpointed regarding the car or genetic genealogy?"

 

[Nila Aella]

Yes, LE absolutely does know he purchased the knife and sheath from Amazon in April, 2022. If the news media is aware of it, I'm confident the defense attorney is aware of it.

JMO

Kohberger allegedly broke into female colleague’s home

Bryan Kohberger has been charged in a separate with killing four University of Idaho students.

www.newsnationnow.com

The Amazon search warrant and latest reasons for sealing the search warrant: Signed 2/27/23

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/022823%20Order%20to%20Seal%20and%20Redact%20-%20Amazon.pdf

This matter came before the court on February 10, 2023 on the court’s motion to seal or redact pursuant to [.C.A.R. 32(i). The hearing was held via Zoom. William W. Thompson, Jr. and Ashley Jennings appeared on behalf of the State. Anne Taylor appeared on behalf of Mr. Kohberger. The court reviewed the records, considered the arguments presented, weighed the interests in privacy and public disclosure, and announced its findings of fact on the record. Therefore, the court finds it necessary to seal in part and redact the record related to the search warrant because the documents contain highly intimate facts or statements, the publication ofwhich would be highly objectionable to reasonable person. l.C.A.R. 32(i)(2)(A)

The 6th Ammendment is not cited as a reason to seal the Amazon warrant. MOO

 

[Chloegirl]

Scares me to think he could commit these murders and get off! Went by the house this week, still boarded up and no sign of it being torn down. The memorials that have been left look aged.

One thing that became abundantly clear after seeing the house is that KB didn't pick that address based on location, if anything it would be one of the last choices given how close the other residences are. Probably gave him even more satisfaction that no one saw him.

I don't know why and cannot even articulate why this case absolutely terrifies me. Maybe because I have a daughter........

I understand. The Defense is busy doing their job, trying to spin it. It does not change the facts and hopefully not the outcome. Look for the facts, the ones that cannot be spun. Just because the Defense says something does not make it the whole story and there are a lot of things to come, not to mention high tensions associated with the upcoming court dates. We are, unfortunately, just getting started. IMO.

 

[arielilane]

Kohberger prosecutors consult Idaho families on death penalty

Families of the victims met with prosecutors to discuss their wishes on the death penalty, a source close to the investigation told NewsNation’s Ashleigh Banfield.

www.newsnationnow.com

Updated: JUN 23, 2023 / 11:27 PM CDT

Kohberger prosecutors consult Idaho families on death penalty​

• Xana Kernodle's mother, Cara Northington, favors life in prison
• Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen families seeking death penalty
• Cameras will remain in court, gag order is less restrictive

Kaylee Goncalves, 21, Madison Mogen, 21, Xana Kernodle, 20, and Ethan Chapin, 20, were stabbed to death in an apartment shared by the three women in November 2022.

If Kohberger is guilty, Kernodle’s mother, Cara Northington, has indicated she would like to see Kohberger in prison for life, rather than face the death penalty. Kernodle’s father, Jeff said he’s in favor of the death penalty. The families of Kaylee Goncalves and Madison Mogen are in favor of the death penalty, as well. Ethan Chapin’s family have not yet made their stance on the matter public.

New documents in the case were released Friday.

 

[maskedwoman]

In my opinion, there was not time to take standard biohazard measures to prevent transfer to his car. Again, it's interesting to me that many experts in MSM and on social media said months ago that with the FBI disassembling his car, there's no way he could have wiped it all down or prevented some evidence, that the FBI would find something because it's not possible he missed every nook and cranny. Now that it appears there's no evidence in his car, let's see what the same experts have to say.

MOO.

I predict that the talking heads will begin a long round of "the prosecution is in deep trouble here" strictly because it will sell ads and get people tuning in again.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

It seems unreasonable, IMO, to expect LE to identify every piece of DNA found in a house that was so socially active. And to test and attempt to identify all the DNA would be futile as there would always be at least three more unidentified DNAs left behind. And let's not even think about how it would skyrocket their budget into the red.

But they did attempt to identify the DNA of the 3 unknown males. They just couldn't do it. My criticism isn't a criticism of LE. It's an observation that the case isn't as strong as we're led to believe by an un-rebutted PCA.

MOO.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I predict that the talking heads will begin a long round of "the prosecution is in deep trouble here" strictly because it will sell ads and get people tuning in again.

Not so sure about that. I predict they just move the goal posts and make excuses for the allegations from the defense.

MOO.

 

[gliving]

A busy Tuesday. Any ideas on what will transpire? tia

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/Summary/Case-Summary-Kohberger-06232023-2.pdf