4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #83

[schooling]

I would be surprised if they did win a dismissal.
I do not share the idea that "If he had a substantive alibi, he wouldn't be sitting in jail at this very moment."
There has been an unbelievably huge amount of pretrial publicity prior to seating the GJ. Thinking back to the D's two recent witnesses on the amount of media exposure and on bias and how any exposure to media can create bias, even subconsciuously. MOO
The D is privy to much more information than is out in the public realm. I believe that AT clearly stated what the D believes in her conclusion. MOO

From the Defendants reply: Conclusion

A grand jury was empaneled at time when the small community of Moscow, Idaho had been exposed to months of intense local, national, and international media coverage. Because the State has provided extensive discovery, Mr. Kohberger knows that exculpatory evidence exists. Whether fair and impartial panel of grand jurors was assembled amidst intense media coverage is significant question the Defense must evaluate. See I.C.R.6.7 and l.C 19-1003 and State v. Roberts, 188 P. 895, 897 (1920.) Whether inadmissible or exculpatory evidence was presented to the grand jury is significant question the defense must evaluate. See l.C.R. 6.2(a), 6.6 and l.C. §19-1107. And, while there are many other legal arguments Mr. Kohberger may pursue related to the grand jury proceedings, how the grand jury was selected and what evidence was presented, illustrate good cause for the Defense’s need for all materials set forth in its motion.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/061323%20Defendants%20Reply%20to%20States%20Supp%20Resp%20to%20Defendants%20%20Motions%20Re%20Grand%20Jury%20Record%20and%20Transcript.pdf

Re: IF the exculpatory evidence is substantial and it was not presented to the GJ.

Dept of Justice:

9-11.233 - PRESENTATION OF EXCULPATORY EVIDENCE​

In United States v. Williams, 112 S.Ct. 1735 (1992), the Supreme Court held that the Federal courts' supervisory powers over the grand jury did not include the power to make a rule allowing the dismissal of an otherwise valid indictment where the prosecutor failed to introduce substantial exculpatory evidence to a grand jury. It is the policy of the Department of Justice, however, that when a prosecutor conducting a grand jury inquiry is personally aware of substantial evidence that directly negates the guilt of a subject of the investigation, the prosecutor must present or otherwise disclose such evidence to the grand jury before seeking an indictment against such a person. While a failure to follow the Department's policy should not result in dismissal of an indictment, appellate courts may refer violations of the policy to the Office of Professional Responsibility for review.

9-11.000 - Grand Jury

www.justice.gov

Even if there is substantial exculpatory evidence that was not presented to the GJ and that discovery fails to result in a dismissal, it will still make the public aware (eventually) of how the case against BK has been handled. MOO

TImeline of events regarding Indictment to request of GJ proceedings
From the motion to Stay:

PROCEDURAL BACKGROUND Mr. Kohberger was indicted by grand jury on May l6, 2023. He filed “Motion to Make Available the Record of all Proceedings of the Grand Jury Pursuant to l.CR. 6.2” and MOTION TO STAY PROCEEDINGS Page STATE OF IDAHO Plaintiff, V. BRYAN C. KOHBERGER, Defendant. “Motion Requesting Release of Grand Jury Materials under Qualified Protective Order” on May l9, 2023. The State then filed their “State’s Response to Defendant’s Motions Regarding Grand Jury Record and Transcript” and proposed order on May 30, 2023. The parties are not able to reach agreement regarding the release of grand jury materials. [n further opposition of Mr. Kohberger’s motion for the preparation of grand jury records, on June 6, 2023, the State filed their “State’s Supplemental Response to Defendant’s Motions Regarding Grand Jury Record and Transcript”. hearing is scheduled for June 26, 2023, to argue this contested matter. Mr. Kohberger stood silent at his initial arraignment to preserve his right to contest the indictment. He also asserted his right to speedy trial pursuant to the United States and Idaho Constitutions. Jury trial is scheduled to begin October 2, 2023. Time is of the essence.

ARGUMENT By the time this Court hears argument on the preparation of the grand jury proceedings, almost six weeks will have passed from the time of the indictment. Preparation of the grand jury record will then take additional time. Mr. Kohberger has the right and intends to contest the indictment. ldaho Code 2-213 (l) allows the defense to seek stay of proceedings: [w]ithin seven (7) days afier the moving party discovers or by the exercise of diligence could have discovered the grounds therefor, and in any event before the trial jury is sworn to try the case, party may move to stay the proceedings, and in criminal case to quash the indictment, or for other appropriate relief, on the ground of substantial failure to comply with this chapter in selecting the grand or trial jury. Mr. Kohberger seeks to stay the proceedings as appropriate relief while the matter of the grand jury record is argued and prepared. He is exercising due diligence to discover the grounds upon which to file motion to dismiss related to how the grand jury was selected.‘ He is being delayed through no fault of his own.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR29-22-2805/061323%20Motion%20to%20Stay%20Proceedings.pdf

Wondering if the Delay in getting the GJ transcript is considered to violate the Fifth/Fourteenth and Sixth Amendments? MOO

Fifth Amendment

www.law.cornell.edu

Sixth Amendment

www.law.cornell.edu

The wait for the hearing on the Motion to Compel is a long time too IMO. Motion to Compel was filed 5/4 and the hearing is set for 6/27.

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

IMO this prosecution is not acting like they have "the goods" against BK. I believe that the Grand Jury route was chosen because the prosecution was having difficulty with the preliminary hearing hurdle. MOO
And, I don't believe the Defense is stalling.
JMO/MOO

That's his car on the video heading towards the crime scene.
That's his car on the video outside of the crime scene.
That's his cell phone on the towers that align to those videos.
That's his DNA on the holster of the murder weapon.
There's eye witness that described a person that does not exclude BK. Long before there was a BK.

If that's not the goods......what is?

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

I may be wrong, but I believe the detective said he was out hiking at the time out of range of cell service and that was the cause of the delay in him getting to the scene. JMO.

Sorry to be behind (as per my usual — deep sigh) if you or someone else has already addressed this, but do you have a source you can share?

I know Chief Fry was out of town when the murders were discovered, but I don’t recall reading that anyone else was, so I’d be grateful to be pointed to what I missed or have forgotten (perfectly possible).

TIA!

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

He has a lack of alibi because he did it.

That's his car on the video. That's his cell phone on the towers. That's his DNA at the scene. He likely has no other reasonable explanation re: his whereabouts on that night that doesn't account for those things or that's provable.

It really is that simple.

I've seen 'wrong place, wrong time' theories (he was in the area for other illicit activities, giving someone a ride) floating around and IMO none of them make sense. And there is 0 evidence pointing to them. Which is really disconcerting because the folks proposing those theories based on 0 evidence will quickly dismiss actual prosecution evidence.

MOO

With the exception of your first sentence, I strongly agree & thanks for explaining it so well.

 

[ArianeEmory]

He has a lack of alibi because he did it.

That's his car on the video. That's his cell phone on the towers. That's his DNA at the scene. He likely has no other reasonable explanation re: his whereabouts on that night that doesn't account for those things or that's provable.

It really is that simple.

I've seen 'wrong place, wrong time' theories (he was in the area for other illicit activities, giving someone a ride) floating around and IMO none of them make sense. And there is 0 evidence pointing to them. Which is really disconcerting because the folks proposing those theories based on 0 evidence will quickly dismiss actual prosecution evidence.

MOO

And strangely, the social media defenders of BK never seem to mention the fact that if BK is the wrong guy, there’s still a mass murderer running loose. I don’t think I’ve seen a single “some other dude did it” theory that doesn’t require dirtying up the victims in some way.

And I’ve seen this play out before. I’ll never know what makes some accused killers pull in defenders. Like, I don’t know why it’s happening with BK … And not with Richard Allen, the accused Delphi murderer, whose arrest we have even less info about — like a single bullet casing, I think?

But yeah, I’ve seen this play out before. It ends in conviction.

 

[Arkay]

And strangely, the social media defenders of BK never seem to mention the fact that if BK is the wrong guy, there’s still a mass murderer running loose. I don’t think I’ve seen a single “some other dude did it” theory that doesn’t require dirtying up the victims in some way.

And I’ve seen this play out before. I’ll never know what makes some accused killers pull in defenders. Like, I don’t know why it’s happening with BK … And not with Richard Allen, the accused Delphi murderer, whose arrest we have even less info about — like a single bullet casing, I think?

But yeah, I’ve seen this play out before. It ends in conviction.

With the notorious exception of O.J. Simpson.

Of course there was no social media then, but he had plenty of defenders. People who refused to believe that their football hero could have killed his wife and Ron. People who felt he was being picked on as a black man. People in his social circle, like Robert Kardashian, who defended him in court.

We all remember his claim when he was found “not guilty,” that he would spend his life looking for ”the real killer.” But he didn’t seem too concerned that there was a double murderer somewhere out there.

JMO

 

[Trebor5591]

Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger plans to contest indictment: court docs

Late last month, Kohberger’s attorneys requested that the court release all the grand jury materials and records of their proceedings.

nypost.com

 

[gitana1]

IMO the the filing here suggests the D will be complying with the alibi request, ie that BK has an alibi.
The request is asking for an exception, and alternatively an extension of time to comply with the alibi request:

MOTION FOR AN EXCEPTION OR IN THE ALTERNATIVE TO EXTEND TIME FOR COMPLIANCE WITH LC. §19-519

IMO the D request for exception OR extra time is due to the amount of discovery they have to go through.

From the motion:
Since Mr. Kohberger’s arrest in late December the Prosecutor has disclosed 51 terabytes of information that includes thousands of pages of discovery, thousands ofphotographs, hundreds of hours of recordings, further, many gigabytes of electronic phone record and social media data has been disclosed. Discovery is voluminous and still ongoing.

The D will want to examine all the P evidence to make sure the alibi is as solid as possible. Identifying anything the prosecution has that supports his alibi and countering anything that might contradict his alibi. That requires them to go through every piece of evidence. And as AT stated in the motion, they need to determine how to deal with protected information. JMO

I disagree that the motion indicates BK has an alibi. It just indicates that the defense is doing their due diligence in a very serious case.

 

[gitana1]

I wonder the same. I just have a niggling feeling that there is some bigger situation connected to this case than we know. I'm generally quite logical and not at all into conspiracies, but I can't help feeling that in a case without missing people, victims with no known enemies, and a defendant that is known to be odd, but not violent, that there is something else, maybe even an adjacent crime that is connected.

Why not just wait for the preliminary hearing? Why not just hand over everything to the defense? As a layperson, I may be over simplifying it, but if you are as confident in the prosecution as many online people seem to think the team should be, why hold back what you have with the defense team?

As for the defense stalling, I also agree that they are not stalling. In fact, I find that a ridiculous notion. Stalling for what? This crime happened in a small, college town. No one there is soon going to forget about what happened, especially considering the prime location where the crime occurred.

I agree that many "alibis" are likely more wishful thinking and creative story-telling than an actual alibi. That being said, IMO, I don't (yet) find BK's/AT's assertion that he has an alibi to be part of the "good ol'" tactic.

I would not be shocked if it turns out that BK was involved in a lesser crime, not because I have info supporting that, but because it would explain his lack of public alibi at this point. If you think you can get out of a murder charge without admitting to whatever you were doing/involved in, why confess to anything?

Because murder is the most serious crime possible with the most serious possible sentences.

 

[gitana1]

That's his car on the video heading towards the crime scene.
That's his car on the video outside of the crime scene.
That's his cell phone on the towers that align to those videos.
That's his DNA on the holster of the murder weapon.
There's eye witness that described a person that does not exclude BK. Long before there was a BK.

If that's not the goods......what is?

The evidence we know of is phenomenal. It’s extremely substantial.

 

[gitana1]

And strangely, the social media defenders of BK never seem to mention the fact that if BK is the wrong guy, there’s still a mass murderer running loose. I don’t think I’ve seen a single “some other dude did it” theory that doesn’t require dirtying up the victims in some way.

And I’ve seen this play out before. I’ll never know what makes some accused killers pull in defenders. Like, I don’t know why it’s happening with BK … And not with Richard Allen, the accused Delphi murderer, whose arrest we have even less info about — like a single bullet casing, I think?

But yeah, I’ve seen this play out before. It ends in conviction.

BBM. It sure does.

 

[gitana1]

With the exception of your first sentence, I strongly agree & thanks for explaining it so well.

Do you think he didn’t do it or that he has an alibi?

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Sorry to be behind (as per my usual — deep sigh) if you or someone else has already addressed this, but do you have a source you can share?

I know Chief Fry was out of town when the murders were discovered, but I don’t recall reading that anyone else was, so I’d be grateful to be pointed to what I missed or have forgotten (perfectly possible).

TIA!

@North_Idaho_Nony, I remember reading the same thing as what Balthazar posted, in MSM in the first week or so after the murders.

This is all IIRC only, since I think it isn't sourced online anymore (I can no longer find the article I remember reading, it was published in late November, maybe in The Idaho Statesman?):

• There could have been a longer than usual response time to the 911 call, like 20 to 50 minutes?
• The 911 caller didn't report a stabbing, but an unconscious person, so maybe response was prioritized differently in the chain of command? (see excerpt from MSM link below)
• Something along the lines of the 2 or 3 (?) officer(s) on duty that day, one of them was out on another call and/or one was not within cell phone range?
• Sunday could be a day when fewer officers were on duty, and on call officers difficult to reach maybe?
• The officers had all worked long shifts the day before when the football game was being played, so many were given the next day off?
• Chief Fry off duty

"... there were no calls to 911 until noon Sunday. Fry did not say who called 911, despite two people being at the home when the killing took place and when officers responded. Fry also declined to say if the two people spoke with police.

“We’re not going to go any further into what they know and what they don’t know,” he said.

He did say the call came in for an unconscious person, not a person with a stab wound."
https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/16/us/university-idaho-killings/index.html

JMO

 

[I'm Nobody]

What about, 'I went out to buy some form of illegal substance from a guy who is often hanging around 'x' location. I don't know his name or identity or anything about him but often if I drive around a while, he's stood on the street there dealing'?

Or, 'I went out kerb crawling for a street sex worker and then had a brief encounter on a side street'?

How do those sort of scenarios pan out? Obv none would explain any forensic evidence and the DNA on the sheath but in terms of quite why someone would be skulking around the streets driving around in the small hours they could pass maybe?

Drugs or sex could be possible other reasons BK's car is on video and cell pings at least 12 times. That makes little sense to me bc: Why drive ten miles to get drugs or sex when BK's uni was larger, probably more of both? Where there is more, things are usually cheaper for shoppers. Buying drugs would be more high risk in Idaho where the law is pretty straightforward: It is illegal to possess even marijuana in the state. So maybe BK was bringing drugs from WA to ID to sell to make extra cash? If caught, he could be charged with trafficking, stricter federal laws crossing state lines with drugs to sell. And how did his buyers reach him? Wouldn't there b a trail of evidence from his buyers or sex workers who would testify?

IF the defense went with sex or drugs alibi, doubtful, but Anne Taylor would have a long list of past or present clients arrested in the area for substance charge, buying or selling, or maybe a sex worker arrested around there. Someone with an arrest record AT could put on the stand as collaborator that the area was indeed their stomping ground and the arrest record backs that up. Maybe the prosecution interviewed somebody from that arrest list and ruled them out early on so their interview didn't make it into the evidence turned over to the D. D needs to see what that possible witness said b4 they use them.

I'd b more inclined to believe BK had to pay for sex bc he either had a paraphilia or dysfunction that could not be satisfied in conventional ways. BK having to pay a sex worker to act out his twisted "fantasy" is believable to me.

Defense would still need to deal with the mountain of other evidence, most not yet public.
JMO speculation. I believe they have the right guy. MOO

 

[Balthazar]

Can anyone tell what brand of shoes BK is wearing in this photo?

 

[Nila Aella]

• 06/14/2023 Notice of Hearing
• 06/14/2023 Temp Order Sealing Motion

 

[Boxer]

If that's the case, then why? The defense is still going to talk to the survivor. It was initially for the hearing, but they changed it to a private interview in NV and as far as we know, that hasn't been changed/canceled. So the defense still gets to talk to the survivor prior to trial (as it stands now, as far as we know). So IF -- and that's a big IF -- the state formed a GJ for the indictment because the defense wanted to talk to the survivor, then that makes me curious about what they're concerned BF will say that might negatively affect chances for an indictment without going through a GJ.

IOW, what about BF talking to the defense was the motivation if that really is the reason for the GJ?

MOO

Possibly.

 

[Maat99]

Can anyone tell what brand of shoes BK is wearing in this photo?
View attachment 429098

They look like some sort of worker safety shoe to me.

 

[Cool Cats]

Can anyone tell what brand of shoes BK is wearing in this photo?
View attachment 429098

New Balance and size 13 Nike shoes were seized in searches.

I would start there when looking at shoe photos.

Interesting question.

 

[Cool Cats]

The evidence we know of is phenomenal. It’s extremely substantial.

Finally, someone says it!

 

[ArianeEmory]

"... there were no calls to 911 until noon Sunday. Fry did not say who called 911, despite two people being at the home when the killing took place and when officers responded. Fry also declined to say if the two people spoke with police.

That reminds me, the new episode of ABC’s podcast about the murders came out a few days ago. The ABC reporter (sorry, her name escapes me) spends some part of the episode going over the delayed and confused 911 call. What I picked up from it (and what I’ve read in other speculation), the surviving roommates were too freaked out to leave their room(s), especially when none of their friends/roommates were responding to texts or calls. (Because they had been murdered.)

So they eventually got some other friends to come check things out (while the survivors were still hiding in their room(s)). That apparently resulted in the confused 911 call … multiple people were talking to the operator using the same phone.

There’s a lot more, but I’m not sure of which pieces were confirmed (to the ABC reporter via local LE—this reporter was on the ground in Moscow a few days after the murders), and which parts were the reporter explaining some early theories that were later debunked. (They do make it clear, I just don’t remember which was which. I had surgery yesterday and I’m still a bit loopy. Which may be apparent by the length of this post.)

It’s a good podcast so far, and really manages to establish the town/setting and who the victims were in the first episode. (Two episodes so far.)