4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #84

[katydid23]

Please read the post to which I replied.
The "massive resources" and "multiple law enforcement agencies" are unrelated to why I suggest we remember how long it has been since Moscow had a murder. It was merely an observation of fact that may explain the local officers lack of use in whatever training they have received.

Regardless of how many officers and agencies were involved, AT has questions about the training of only three of them and for specific types of training.

They are just fishing---looking for an excuse to knock out any witness testimony of those who were interviewed by those specific officers. There is nothing in their employment history/training that merits the attorneys discrediting the local officers.

Are they going to want ALL of the officers training and employment histories before the defense can move forward to trial?

It sounds ridiculous to me that a public defender is demanding the employment and training documents of local officers who were on the scene of the crime, doing their regular jobs. It is a fishing expedition, looking for any excuse to wiggle out of these serious charges. JMO

 

[katydid23]

If there's nothing to be worried about they can hand over the training records and that will be the end of it.

It will never end....if they can't find anything wrong with the training hours, they will then ask for the resumes of the training officers, to make sure they are adequate or qualified.

This is just one of many more fishing expeditions to come. There will be dozens of them.

The defense team is looking for a way to dismiss this witness testimony, and if they can taint the local officers who interviewed them, they have a chance to do so.

They have no reason to believe these officers were unqualified to do their jobs. They just hope to find something in the training documents so they can dismiss the testimonies.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Per MSM reports and the PCA, they changed the date of the Elantra AFTER BK was on their radar. They initially put out a call for the Elantra just to local authorities and then were tipped off by WSU parking attendant about BK on November 29th. By early December, they were still looking for 2011- 2013 (see below). So it was sometime after early December that they changed the dates of the Elantra, and BK's name was known to them at that time.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article269744576.html

Idaho college murders timeline: From off-campus killings to Bryan Kohberger's court appearance

Authorities have provided some information on the killings during the course of the investigation, and a preliminary timeline reveals how those killed spent some of their final hours, as well as the investigative response.

abc7chicago.com

IMO, that's going to come back to bite the prosecution in the butt.

I respect your opinion "IMO, that's going to come back to bite the prosecution in the butt."

IMO, it isn't going to be a matter of much consequence in the prosecution's case against BK in regards to how, why, or when LE released "public statements" about the model years of the Elantra they were looking for during the initial and subsequent phases of their investigation within a timeframe of a few weeks.

As described in this MSM article [The white sedan: How police found suspect in Idaho slayings], and these excerpts in particular (BBM):

"A forensic examiner with the FBI determined the car to likely be a 2011-2013 Hyundai Elantra, though subsequently said it could be a model as late as 2016, according to the affidavit.
.....

Though Kohberger, with his 2015 Elantra, had first come to the attention of WSU police by Nov. 29, it's not clear how soon that information was relayed to the Moscow Police Department, which issued a news release on Dec. 7 asking for the public's help in finding a white 2011-13 Elantra. The release suggested such as vehicle had been near the home early on Nov. 13 and that any occupants "may have critical information to share regarding this case".

Law enforcement agencies sometimes use such public statements to throw off suspects and keep them from learning they are under suspicion.

...."

Based on the information cited in these excerpts of the AP article, and IMO:

The initial "public news release" asking for the public's help in finding 2011-2013 Elantras whose occupants may have critical information to share regarding the case was valid per the FBI's forensic examiner.

By not publicly releasing the Elantra model years could be "as late as 2016" until a bit later -- if LE did use the sort of approach cited as something LE sometimes does in the AP article -- it would fall under protecting the integrity of the investigation.

JMO

 

[Kemug]

Several posters have suggested that BK may not have acted on his own. Never say never, but I really can't see this. To me, that crime was not something you would invite a friend to, or plan with someone else. And we know that BK had few friends anyway. Unless there is a murdering website akin to Tinder, which there may be for all I know!

 

[Twistinginthewind]

So this has been bugging me for a while. Is the WS community investigating the case or are they trying to litigate it? I am often trying to figure out the facts (not argue them in a court of law). It seems like it's more law focused? Which is super interesting, but less investigative. I'm sure they go hand in hand but I'm finding a lot more arguing the case than trying to figure what happened. Newbie here so it's really a humble question.

Good points, @Chloegirl. It's good to have you here, newbie, middlie or oldie , I think we're all are here because we care about the case and feel we have something to add to the discussion.

IMO:

The discussions on this thread in the first 6 weeks after Ethan, Xana, Maddie and Kaylee were brutally murdered by an unknown perp and before BK was arrested and charged with their murders, there was enormous focus on trying to figure out what happened (who could have done it and why), in a more typical sleuthing fashion that I think you're referring to as investigative oriented, if I understand you correctly.

Between BK's arrest and LE saying he was the only suspect, and the gag order, there was plenty more investigative oriented focus then on if he did it, if he acted alone, why and how he did it.

After the gag order, which meant no one participating in the case was allowed to discuss the case or any new developments with the media or make statements to the pubic, and until his trial, all that is new information available to the public are the court documents, which are posted on the Idaho court website as they come out, and the pre-trial hearings.

So that's my take, for what it's worth, on why it might seem that the discussions here are more law focused since the gag order has been in place, because what's new to discuss are the court documents, and pre-trial hearings.

And we already know who LE and the prosecution believe is the only suspect who did it, BK, so there's more focus now on what can be speculated about what's in the court documents and what it means in terms of the legal developments in the prosecution's case, what the judge's role and decisions are about, and what it may mean to the defense's case.

Also now that the prosecution will be seeking the death penalty, that's another legal oriented aspect of the case to discuss because it means the case will be tried in a different vein from a legal standpoint, than it was before when it wasn't yet a death penalty case.

All JMO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Several posters have suggested that BK may not have acted on his own. Never say never, but I really can't see this. To me, that crime was not something you would invite a friend to, or plan with someone else. And we know that BK had few friends anyway. Unless there is a murdering website akin to Tinder, which there may be for all I know!

The only reason I countenance such an idea is because of his work and the fact he'd been contacting criminals with his questionnaire. It would be interesting to know who filled out the questionnaire and what type of crimes they'd committed.

 

[girlhasnoname]

i think it was a PR exercise, they knew they would be filmed entering so planted smiles on their faces in an attempt to appear cordial and pleasant.
Probably warned the accused to appear sombre, which he did.

I have noticed that BK clenches his jaw quite often. It's been noticeable to to me in the last 2 hearings especially.

MOO

 

[Twistinginthewind]

I have noticed that BK clenches his jaw quite often. It's been noticeable to to me in the last 2 hearings especially.

MOO

Me too. I wonder if he does it more because he's stressed, or more because he's ticked off at being in the position he's in, you know, his, uh, 'carceral circumstances' and things not going his way in the pretrial phase of being the defendant in a death penalty eligible quadruple murder case. MOO

 

[ilovewings]

Generally speaking, I think it is mostly people, who don't really understand how it works. Fear of the unknown. Throw in some of the tinfoil-hatty folks in the dark corners of the internet who yell about "my privacy" and "my rights" in a conspiracy theorist sort of a way, and you mostly have that covered, IMO.

Then there is also the fact that there is little else to attack of the evidence. (Well, cell towers were also raised, as they are by no means able to place him exactly into the house. I am optimistic that there is other direct data that is able to (wi-fi handshake, gps).) But DNA and especially GG seems to be just such a politicized topic (in the US) that it's a nice distraction.

<modsnip: off topic>

Moreover, people are bewildered about "how could he have been so stupid" when he was "a phd student in criminology". But first, he was not so stupid. While he did quite some stupid mistakes, he also got some things right. AFAWK, the murder weapon has never been found. He at least disabled the network services of his phone. AFAWK, he himself is not on video in an incriminating way and even the car is on somewhat less video than one would expect. And second, he had no real background in criminology. He had a degree in psychology and an online degree in criminal justice. And while he got accepted to the phd, he was also obviously not doing well there. People tend to overestimate his educational background and underestimate the difficulty of committing such a crime (especially with an emotional motive, that I personally believe was there).

Too long, but it's morning in my hood and my brain is kinda lagging. All MOO.

Your brain is working just fine! <modsnip: quoted post was snipped> Then there are people, who, unless they see the murder on video, refuse to believe this person could have committed that particular crime. Very smart people do very stupid things while committing crimes otherwise they would never have been caught. They do what is considered stupid things because there is an emotional component to committing murder. It doesn't usually go quite as planned. The adrenalin is flowing -----mistakes are made (thank goodness)--

 

[kittythehare]

I have noticed that BK clenches his jaw quite often. It's been noticeable to to me in the last 2 hearings especially.

MOO

I didn't notice it this time but in the earlier hearings a muscle would twitch in his face, that became less obvious over time, I thought. I think he is well prepared by his defense team. he looks smart and with the appropriate demeanour.

 

[Justice101]

Generally speaking, I think it is mostly people, who don't really understand how it works. Fear of the unknown. Throw in some of the tinfoil-hatty folks in the dark corners of the internet who yell about "my privacy" and "my rights" in a conspiracy theorist sort of a way, and you mostly have that covered, IMO.

Then there is also the fact that there is little else to attack of the evidence. (Well, cell towers were also raised, as they are by no means able to place him exactly into the house. I am optimistic that there is other direct data that is able to (wi-fi handshake, gps).) But DNA and especially GG seems to be just such a politicized topic (in the US) that it's a nice distraction.

<modsnip: off topic>

Moreover, people are bewildered about "how could he have been so stupid" when he was "a phd student in criminology". But first, he was not so stupid. While he did quite some stupid mistakes, he also got some things right. AFAWK, the murder weapon has never been found. He at least disabled the network services of his phone. AFAWK, he himself is not on video in an incriminating way and even the car is on somewhat less video than one would expect. And second, he had no real background in criminology. He had a degree in psychology and an online degree in criminal justice. And while he got accepted to the phd, he was also obviously not doing well there. People tend to overestimate his educational background and underestimate the difficulty of committing such a crime (especially with an emotional motive, that I personally believe was there).

Too long, but it's morning in my hood and my brain is kinda lagging. All MOO.

Excellent comments.

Yes, he did do some things "right" like 1) hiding the murder weapon as you stated, 2) getting rid of his bloody clothes, 3) wearing a face mask at the time of the murder so his full face was not seen, 4) no getting his license plate seen on camera, 5) (unfortunately, not leaving any of the victims alive enough to identify him and 6) entering the house secretly without being detected.

However, his mistakes were much more numerous and will be his downfall in the end.

 

[maskedwoman]

Per MSM reports and the PCA, they changed the date of the Elantra AFTER BK was on their radar. They initially put out a call for the Elantra just to local authorities and then were tipped off by WSU parking attendant about BK on November 29th. By early December, they were still looking for 2011- 2013 (see below). So it was sometime after early December that they changed the dates of the Elantra, and BK's name was known to them at that time.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article269744576.html

Idaho college murders timeline: From off-campus killings to Bryan Kohberger's court appearance

Authorities have provided some information on the killings during the course of the investigation, and a preliminary timeline reveals how those killed spent some of their final hours, as well as the investigative response.

abc7chicago.com

IMO, that's going to come back to bite the prosecution in the butt.

I think it depends on how and why the model years changed. Perhaps when BK's car was reported, and possibly a few things began to line up, they went back to the FBI expert and asked if they could say whether or not the videos they had would exclude a 2015 model? And perhaps the FBI expert looked again and said, "actually, no, they don't exclude that model year". I think a scenario like that would be perfectly understandable to the jury. MOOooo

 

[maskedwoman]

Is it manipulative or is it REAL? The MSM should not be in the business of altering reality. He literally wore a suit and had curls. So that's what they should be required to show. Instead, they're being incredibly manipulative and altering reality by showing him in the orange. BK has not been found guilty. The media doesn't get to play judge and jury and then distort reality in order to have everyone else agree with them. And then they whine endlessly about the gag order as if they didn't do it to themselves.

MOO.

I have seen/read/heard about press behavior during trials of major interest years and even decades ago. Sadly, this is not a new development. They just have more invasive tools available to them now. The Lindberg baby, Watergate, Lacey Peterson, Sam Shepherd, pretty much any case that develops "legs", the press turn into jackals with no sense of boundaries or - apparently - no conscience or sense of obligation to the truth or concern about the damage they do by hounding innocent people. They definitely do it to themselves.

 

[Charlot123]

Is anyone here not 100 percent “guilty” on Bryan Kohburger? Or everyone thinks it was him for sure? JMO. Edited to add: genuinely asking not trying to berate anyone for their opinions

I am not 100% convinced it was him. I simply don't think one source of DNA and a misdated Elantra is enough to convince me. This being said, I do not have the feeling that he was innocent, either. There just need to be more facts to decide, either way.

 

[NyxNY]

Thank you. It's one thing to criticize the media, it's another to accuse it of disobeying a judge.

IMO.

Kitty misunderstood (or perhaps I didn't make it clear) as to what video I was referring to. They thought I was referring to the hearing where BK appeared in an orange jumpsuit. A hearing before JJJ gave his warning. It wasn't a "clip" as the poster said. It was the entire video of the hearing on 6/27 where at the beginning the judge warned the media in the courtroom not to focus on BK's face, but rather the entire courtroom proceedings as a whole. The person behind the camera in the video I watched obeyed at first. Towards the end while other people were speaking (where he/she/they should have focused), they zoomed in and focused on BK's face. They just couldn't resist. Take a looksie. At about 4:38 is when JJJ addresses cameras focusing on defendant's face. Beginning at 26:02 AT is speaking, camera zooms and focuses on BK's face for quite some time, to where AT isn't even in camera view anymore. JMO. What are your thoughts?

Bryan Kohberger Back in Court | Court TV Video

www.courttv.com

 

[MinnesotaMary]

Thank you so much for posting that clip ! What TOTALLY struck me is IMO BrianK was both entirely aware of the camera on him, AND totally focused on that aspect of what was unfolding - IMO I am CONFIDENT I saw BrianK smirk multiple times!

 

[di anna]

There must be tremendous pressure on the police and FBI to discern who did this crime. If BK did not commit this crime then there is a killer on the loose, free to kill someone else. I think that fear is real in this community. Request for documentation for training and protocol is very important for the 3 officers. This allows the defense to pinpoint who else was interviewed, how they were interviewed and probably does a thorough review of a gap of time when the crimes were committed and reported. Police are human and this is not a major city where they are seasoned investigators. I dunno, there are so many unanswered questions.

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

Per MSM reports and the PCA, they changed the date of the Elantra AFTER BK was on their radar. They initially put out a call for the Elantra just to local authorities and then were tipped off by WSU parking attendant about BK on November 29th. By early December, they were still looking for 2011- 2013 (see below). So it was sometime after early December that they changed the dates of the Elantra, and BK's name was known to them at that time.

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article269744576.html

Idaho college murders timeline: From off-campus killings to Bryan Kohberger's court appearance

Authorities have provided some information on the killings during the course of the investigation, and a preliminary timeline reveals how those killed spent some of their final hours, as well as the investigative response.

abc7chicago.com

IMO, that's going to come back to bite the prosecution in the butt.

Don't know if you've pulled up 2013 vs 2016 but you wouldn't hardly be able to tell the difference unless you were feet away.
Will the defense try to dwell on the difference in year, you're so correct. I believe the Prosecution will probably show side by sides of years 2011 to 2016 to counter.
No offence at all, but I could see if it were pink with yellow polka dots or a VW bug vs the difference of the Elantra years at that distance, big issue. IMO, I'm thinking perhaps a jury wouldn't find it worry some after seeing the years comparison side by side.
Again, it's just my opinion and thoughts. Have no idea what defense will say or what a jury will accept.

 

[MinnesotaMary]

There must be tremendous pressure on the police and FBI to discern who did this crime. If BK did not commit this crime then there is a killer on the loose, free to kill someone else. I think that fear is real in this community. Request for documentation for training and protocol is very important for the 3 officers. This allows the defense to pinpoint who else was interviewed, how they were interviewed and probably does a thorough review of a gap of time when the crimes were committed and reported. Police are human and this is not a major city where they are seasoned investigators. I dunno, there are so many unanswered questions.

Are you from that area? I've thought that since BrianK's been arrested, those college community areas feel relief.... If BrianK did this, he's one scary, scary person----the way he was trying to wind up being 'police chief' or something - so, so scary how he was trying to get an entry level job as a 'crimonologist expert' - I bet the reason he wanted to have the police hire him was so that he could get into police computers and be able to know everything about everyone, all to fine-tune his spare time 'hobby'....

 

[Balthazar]

The GJ proceedings stipulation?
It was posted with a 6/27 date on the summary page today.
MOO

Perhaps.