4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #84

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I'm sure that's why the defense wants all the notes because that's not the way the timeline is written in the PCA. Again, I don't know when they had a name so I can't say for sure that they didn't have the car BK drove before examining the footage and reporting on the make and model. I honestly doubt that's what happened, but it's possible. It really kind of defies common sense, though, when you think about it logically. They find out BK drives a white Elantra and they start scouring the footage and there's a white Elantra in the right place and time. What are the odds?

When I read the PCA it seems that they pretty immediately pulled the camera footage. There was a white sedan traveling in the area without a front license plate. If they can show that they had that information before they had BKs name, that's very damning evidence. Very few cars are going to be lacking that front license plate. His is one of them and it's the right color. If I was a jury member, that would be very convincing to me it was BKs car--as long as they didn't have his name when they wrote that in their investigation.

According to the PCA they then provided this video to the FBI, who believed it was a 2011-2013 Elantra. They then provided the video of the car pulled from the WSU cameras and the examiner revised the assessment to say that it was a 2014-2016 Elantra. The examiner will have to explain that revision and if it's because the footage from WSU was better quality or had better angles, that would make sense to me as a juror and I wouldn't find their testimony or expertise not credible because of it.

Now, do we know if they had a name before this revision, no. If they did, the defense should be given that information so they can impeach the credibility of the examiner.

The PCA then says they asked local enforcement agencies to look for the Elantra on 25 November. The PCA doesn't specify which years, but the PCA is generally going in chronological order so it seems to me that they'd already identified 2014-2016 by the 25th. Why they released the earlier years to the public later on, I don't know, but I believe based on the PCA they already knew the correct years by the 25th.

Where the idea of a Sentra comes from, I don't know. Sentra sounds a lot like Elantra so it really could
The information about the white sedan was received via tip.

Moscow police announced Wednesday that they are looking for the occupants of a 2011 to 2013 Hyundai Elantra. They said they are interested in talking to those occupants and believe they may have critical information to share regarding this case, but the license plate is still unknown.

The vehicle is believed to have been in the area of the residence where the four students were killed during the early moming hours of November 12

Dated Thursday Dec5, 2022.
 
Indeed! Just as there were multiple agencies assisting in the Mollie Tibbetts investigation. Very impressive!

JMO
Most From PCA

Assistant Chief - Washington State University Police Department
Idaho State Police (ISP)
Idaho State Police Forensics Services
Idaho State Police Detectives
Moscow Police Department Officers (MPD)
WSU Police
FBI Agents
FBI Forensic Examiner - 35 years with LE and 12 years with the FBI
Moscow Police Department Sergeant - 22 years with previous homicide investigations
Latah County Sheriff's Deputy Corporal (CPL)
Technical Specialists from all LE organizations
Technical Specialist in digital devices
Technical Specialist in digital media

Cell Site Location Information (CSLI)
Cellular Analysis Survey Team (CAST)
Idaho State Crime Lab
Othram (Genetics)
CODIS
 
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Most From PCA

Assistant Chief - Washington State University Police Department
Idaho State Police (ISP)
Idaho State Police Forensics Services
Idaho State Police Detectives
Moscow Police Department Officers (MPD)
WSU Police
FBI Agents
FBI Forensic Examiner - 35 years with LE and 12 years with the FBI
Moscow Police Department Sergeant - 22 years with previous homicide investigations
Latah County Sheriff's Deputy Corporal (CPL)
Technical Specialists from all LE organizations
Technical Specialist in digital devices
Technical Specialist in digital media

Cell Site Location Information (CSLI)
Cellular Analysis Survey Team (CAST)
Idaho State Crime Lab
Othram (Genetics)
CODIS
It would be a very strange thing if they all screwed up together, would it not?
Plus a cool Mill budget.

This was no small town amnesiac incompetent cop shabby investigation.

They pulled out all the stops for these kids.
 
i think it was a PR exercise, they knew they would be filmed entering so planted smiles on their faces in an attempt to appear cordial and pleasant.
Probably warned the accused to appear sombre, which he did.
I think AT and friends wanted to look like they have no worries---their client is going to be exonerated---so they are all smiles.

They want to look like they are celebrsating---they are going to overturn the Grand Jury and get the DNA tossed, etc. etc.
 
I'm sure that's why the defense wants all the notes because that's not the way the timeline is written in the PCA. Again, I don't know when they had a name so I can't say for sure that they didn't have the car BK drove before examining the footage and reporting on the make and model. I honestly doubt that's what happened, but it's possible. It really kind of defies common sense, though, when you think about it logically. They find out BK drives a white Elantra and they start scouring the footage and there's a white Elantra in the right place and time. What are the odds?

When I read the PCA it seems that they pretty immediately pulled the camera footage. There was a white sedan traveling in the area without a front license plate. If they can show that they had that information before they had BKs name, that's very damning evidence. Very few cars are going to be lacking that front license plate. His is one of them and it's the right color. If I was a jury member, that would be very convincing to me it was BKs car--as long as they didn't have his name when they wrote that in their investigation.

According to the PCA they then provided this video to the FBI, who believed it was a 2011-2013 Elantra. They then provided the video of the car pulled from the WSU cameras and the examiner revised the assessment to say that it was a 2014-2016 Elantra. The examiner will have to explain that revision and if it's because the footage from WSU was better quality or had better angles, that would make sense to me as a juror and I wouldn't find their testimony or expertise not credible because of it.

Now, do we know if they had a name before this revision, no. If they did, the defense should be given that information so they can impeach the credibility of the examiner.

The PCA then says they asked local enforcement agencies to look for the Elantra on 25 November. The PCA doesn't specify which years, but the PCA is generally going in chronological order so it seems to me that they'd already identified 2014-2016 by the 25th. Why they released the earlier years to the public later on, I don't know, but I believe based on the PCA they already knew the correct years by the 25th.

Where the idea of a Sentra comes from, I don't know. Sentra sounds a lot like Elantra so it really could be just a case of mishearing or misreading.

Per MSM, they had a name on 11/29 (see my link in the original post). I think you're incorrect about the 25th. Moscow PD made a public appeal in December for the 2011 - 2013 Elantra (see links in my post). They then changed it to 2011 - 2016. They wouldn't have released 2011 - 2013 if they had already changed it internally, IMO.

MOO.
 
Massive resources were put into this investigation!

The Moscow Police Department is leading the investigation with assistance from the Idaho State Police, the Latah County Sheriff's Office and the FBI, which has assigned more than 40 agents to the case across the US.


I think it is important to remember that multiple law enforcement agencies investigated the Idaho murders including the FBI, State police and Sheriff.

JMO
Please read the post to which I replied.
The "massive resources" and "multiple law enforcement agencies" are unrelated to why I suggest we remember how long it has been since Moscow had a murder. It was merely an observation of fact that may explain the local officers lack of use in whatever training they have received.

Regardless of how many officers and agencies were involved, AT has questions about the training of only three of them and for specific types of training.
 
Please read the post to which I replied.
The "massive resources" and "multiple law enforcement agencies" are unrelated to why I suggest we remember how long it has been since Moscow had a murder. It was merely an observation of fact that may explain the local officers lack of use in whatever training they have received.

Regardless of how many officers and agencies were involved, AT has questions about the training of only three of them and for specific types of training.
do you have evidence of incompetence or just throwing it out there?
 
I think AT and friends wanted to look like they have no worries---their client is going to be exonerated---so they are all smiles.

They want to look like they are celebrsating---they are going to overturn the Grand Jury and get the DNA tossed, etc. etc.
Yep. Try to look carefree and fun loving! Try not to look like the murderer of four innocent souls.
 
Please read the post to which I replied.
The "massive resources" and "multiple law enforcement agencies" are unrelated to why I suggest we remember how long it has been since Moscow had a murder. It was merely an observation of fact that may explain the local officers lack of use in whatever training they have received.

Regardless of how many officers and agencies were involved, AT has questions about the training of only three of them and for specific types of training.
As the Prosecution so eloquently pointed out, their training is irrelevant to the case.

JMO
 
As the Prosecution so eloquently pointed out, their training is irrelevant to the case.

JMO
Unlikely they will be permitted to question the State's witnesses pre trial in any case.
Brendt Christensen's lawyers tried that.
Chief witness just did not respond and made herself inaccessible to them.
BUT they tried persistently.
Egregious, IMO
 
Strong disagree in a murder case. With most murder stories, there is a murder and the person or persons who did are clearly and plainly on the wrong side of the human ledger. The truth may lie outside the courtroom, I suppose, but it's certainly in the hands of the jury - who are supposed to find for ONE side of the argument or refuse to return a verdict.

I don't know how many trials you've watched, but there's absolutely nothing weak about the State's case at this point in time. And so far, the Defense has gotten no evidence "thrown out." (An odd term, really). There will be LOTS of evidence that the State puts on its list for trial - and even if the Judge approves it, they may not bring all the evidence. They will judge that as the trial unfolds.

But the Defense has a bigger problem. That is, many of the angles suggested here on WS would require that Kohberger testify on his own behalf. Risky. But juries are human and they are selected because they showed up (as responsible people do) for jury duty (many people shirk it). They answered questions at voir dire (and behind the scenes, are being researched by paralegals, possibly on both sides - but certainly the Defense has an interest in doing this - may even hire a consultant). So the jury will be reasonable, adult humans who want to do their duty. They may end up in a draw, but I doubt it. They will decide for one side or the other.

The idea that the State needs rabbits is odd to me. It's the Defense that needs to pray for a miracle. Just the remaining latent prints (both kinds) alone are going to put another finger on the scale; if the size of those Van prints didn't match Kohberger's feet (and likely matched in some detail), or other similar forms of evidence do not match up to Kohberger, I doubt the GJ would have indicted. But even if you believe that the "truth is somewhere in the middle" (How does that look? Kohberger kind of halfway did it? Did it but was in a fugue state? Because "didn't do it at all" is not "in the middle" to me), the Judge is being given an opportunity, as always, to pore over the evidence as well.

There's a motion to dismiss, isn't there? Let's wait until the Judge ways in. Because, IME, what the Judge has actually heard (on the phone, in chambers) off the record PLUS what the GJ heard is going to take this case to trial. And Judges do not decide to spend State resources capriciously. There will be a fair trial.

But it's going to be an uphill battle for this defendant. I think there will be some real bombshells, as always in a murder trial. I also think the list of witnesses will be surprising to some, but the work done here by the document-reading WSers have convinced me that there are going to be several further layers to the evidence, of the type used long before DNA was ever heard of.

GPS was likely introduced to the GJ. There has to be GPS to go along with the cell tower data (and there are more cell towers and masts whose information could contribute at trial - but likely unneeded if the GPS is there). The Amazon subpoenas got specific enough to make anyone following this case realize there was some sort of trail from Ka-Bar.

At any rate, I am confident that the Judge will not dismiss this case. The fact that the State is going for the death penalty telegraphs something about what they think the strength of their case might be. The number of different kinds of evidence that I believe they have is very long (mostly due to Kohberger not leaving his phone at home - it left, in his car, at the same time he did, from Pullman; the phone will unit Kohberger, car and King Road on multiple occasions, including the night and hour of the murders, and including a return to the scene of the crime).

IMO: Truth is often absolute in a murder case. Four people are dead. That's as absolute as one can get.

And whoever did it is completely responsible for this heinous action. No middle ground for me, anyway. I have to be convinced by the kinds of evidence I"m mentioning but I do not believe that the evidence is absent. It's there. The Grand Jury saw it. Now the Judge will rule on it. I'm also keeping in mind that the GJ evidence presentation is not the same as a trial - there will be more facts put before a jury in a murder trial than for the GJ, IMO.

ICBW. Judge Judge could throw this out -when is that hearing? Can't recall. But it's standard procedure and I don't for a minute believe he will throw this out.

IMO.
Couldn’t have said it better myself lol I look forward to your post and I respect your opinion. In my opinion he is absolutely guilty. I have also followed this from day one.
 
Per MSM, they had a name on 11/29 (see my link in the original post). I think you're incorrect about the 25th. Moscow PD made a public appeal in December for the 2011 - 2013 Elantra (see links in my post). They then changed it to 2011 - 2016. They wouldn't have released 2011 - 2013 if they had already changed it internally, IMO.

MOO.
I might be looking in the wrong place, but I think that's not the same thing. I don't think we know when they had a name produced from the genetic genealogy. If they took dna from the sheath and got a name from his matches and building out a tree--that's almost as good as having a CODIS match. You just need to confirm it with his dna or a close family member. You're pretty confident this is your guy. If your experts have said the white car is a Sentra and this guy drives an Elantra and then they say oh, wait, on second thought, it's Elantra--that's obviously a problem, to say the least. The name is leading you to the car and the car is not the car you first said it was. The expert might say, well, I was wrong, it really is an Elantra, but, as a jury member who doesn't know cars, I'd probably be looking at the grainy video and thinking--maybe it IS a Sentra and he's not being truthful.

What the PCA says and what the articles say, is that on 11/29 local agencies were told to look out for an Elantra. The WSU officer ran a check on all Elantras registered to students and BK was on that list. Another WSU officer also spotted a white Elantra and ran the tags. These tips were passed on to an investigator. In this case, the car came before the name. They had the name because of the car, not the car because of the name.

The PCA says that by 11/25 they knew it was an Elantra. Was 12 days after the murders sufficient time to have a name from the dna on the sheath and they knew it was an Elantra because that's what that name drove? If they had the name by 11/25 and that's how they knew it was an Elantra, why were they waiting until 11/29 to run the tags on BKs car. Doesn't really make sense.

I don't really know why they would release 2011-2013. Like you said, they had a name 11/29 and already knew what he drove but in December they released 2011-2013?
 
Agree, I’m confused why people are so stuck on the genealogy thing.
Generally speaking, I think it is mostly people, who don't really understand how it works. Fear of the unknown. Throw in some of the tinfoil-hatty folks in the dark corners of the internet who yell about "my privacy" and "my rights" in a conspiracy theorist sort of a way, and you mostly have that covered, IMO.

Then there is also the fact that there is little else to attack of the evidence. (Well, cell towers were also raised, as they are by no means able to place him exactly into the house. I am optimistic that there is other direct data that is able to (wi-fi handshake, gps).) But DNA and especially GG seems to be just such a politicized topic (in the US) that it's a nice distraction.

<modsnip: off topic>

Moreover, people are bewildered about "how could he have been so stupid" when he was "a phd student in criminology". But first, he was not so stupid. While he did quite some stupid mistakes, he also got some things right. AFAWK, the murder weapon has never been found. He at least disabled the network services of his phone. AFAWK, he himself is not on video in an incriminating way and even the car is on somewhat less video than one would expect. And second, he had no real background in criminology. He had a degree in psychology and an online degree in criminal justice. And while he got accepted to the phd, he was also obviously not doing well there. People tend to overestimate his educational background and underestimate the difficulty of committing such a crime (especially with an emotional motive, that I personally believe was there).

Too long, but it's morning in my hood and my brain is kinda lagging. All MOO.
 
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