4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #86

[Jurisprudence]

I don't understand the focus on having proof BK purchased a knife/sheath. Prosecution doesn't need that proof to convict him, they have what they need to convict him. ... 2 Cents

Knives were removed from his house doesn't mean it was the murder weapon. A knife purchase doesn't prove it is the murder weapon.

DNA on a sheath under a victim will be the big factor in convicting him. Single source DNA convicts people every day, super common and reliable.

DNA is not an assumption it is evidence.

I'm guessing (speculation only) they'd want it more along the lines for rebuttal. To rebut any claim by defense that it was someone else's knife that he just happened to handle once. Or, that he did purchase it, but there is proof that he returned it, something like that. Not sure if I'm making sense. In other words, I'd think it's not that they "need" it (to prove it's his DNA), but that they'd "want" it (to shut down the all but certain defense argument against it).

MOO

 

[Jurisprudence]

I'm trying to figure out how an accidental transfer could occur in regards to the defense's own emphasis above on "an investigation that spans hundreds of members of law enforcement and apparently at least one lab."

As stated by defense themselves in the above document, on Nov 20 the ISP lab located the DNA on the sheath and performed STR analysis. At that point as of Nov 20, the DNA information from that sheath is now in the official system--no one can come and accidentally or deliberately put BK's DNA on that sheath.

So, that leaves us with before those test results were processed and in the system. The only recorded interaction between BK and a member of Idaho law enforcement was on August 21 during his stop for not wearing a seat belt by Latah County Sheriff Deputy Corporal Duke. There is no written report for that stop, and a request for body cam footage from that encounter was denied (this statement comes from about half way down in this article https://www.tri-cityherald.com/news/state/article275083811.html, and no I'm not confusing it with the Oct 14 WSU stop), so we don't know what physical interaction if any occurred.

If there is the smallest chance that somehow that CPL Duke somehow got BK DNA on his/her hands from perhaps handling BK's driver's license, I'm sure it could easily be verified whether or not that officer was present at the processing of the crime scene and the evidence. Though that would assume CPL Duke then transferred that DNA from their hands to their uniform shortly after the stop and it somehow stayed there until they were present at the crime scene and in the vicinity of the sheath. But it only transferred into the snap of sheath, not the broader flat surfaces.

Or we could say that after CPL Duke theoretically got BK's DNA on their hands from his driver's license, Duke immediately came in direct contact with an item of evidence at a crime scene and transferred BK's DNA to it. This item was then taken to the Meridian, ID ISP lab for processing. And that tiny bit of now twice transferred BK touch DNA is transferred a third time to a work surface/piece of equipment in that lab and evades cleaning until the lab receives the knife sheath and begins checking it for DNA. Then it transfers a fourth time to the clasp of the sheath.

I can't think of any other way in which a member of ISP could be connected to accidental transfer of BK touch DNA. Washington state law enforcement would have had no direct involvement at that point, right? According to the PCA, WSU police didn't even come up with BK's name/auto until Nov 29th. The WSU officer who stopped him for the intersection stuff wouldn't have any means of transferring DNA from that encounter to the ISP lab.

I agree. To buy this argument I think you'd have to buy into a massive conspiracy spanning LE across 4 different jurisdictions (WA, PA, ID) and the Federal Government; believe or at least think it possible that they were all in it to frame some no name grad student from across the border. You'd have dismiss that the footage of the vehicle showing no front plate and the phone being with it when it turned back on; and suggest that WSU Campus Police allowed ID LE entry into his apartment without a warrant, in-between the time of arriving on scene in ID and processing it. It all seems to strain credulity imo.

 

[maskedwoman]

I've seen crimes committed 40 years ago being solved by DNA. I don't remember any in particular requiring prosecutors to specifically prove that the suspect/defendant touched the object where their DNA was left.

If that was the bar we'd have DNA evidence being thrown out left and right.

I'd like to think it's not going to fly. But OJ...

I admit that it only takes one, whether it's OJ or BK, and I have certainly said the same thing myself. But I try to remind myself that it's not quite as straightforward as that. OJ was a well-known and beloved sports figure that people thought they "knew" in that weird way that people think they "know" celebrities. By contrast, BK has a creepy vibe that will be hard to mask, especially with the State painting him (I believe) as someone who stalked these young people. I'm hopeful, anyway.

 

[Jurisprudence]

I agree. I don't see it being something that would help the state in it's case.

The jury may wonder why BK used a knife to kill multiple people when he had access to a gun. JMO.

To me it all comes down to psyche. They aren't alleging he's a mass shooter. They're alleging he is a serial killer and that the way acts were carried out were a central part of the fantasy and "fulfillment."

jmo

 

[maskedwoman]

Another way to look at the state not finding evidence of BK buying a Ka-Bar and sheath is that the defense can talk the jury during opening and closing statements about it. The jury will be told that the lawyers statements are not evidence but some jurors will disregard that admonition.

The defense can ask why LE never found evidence of a Ka-Bar purchase by the defendant with all of the many search warrants they used in their search. The state can claim that the defendant made efforts to hide the way he obtained the knife and sheath to avoid detection. But the defense can ask why would the defendant go to the trouble of concealing the purchase of the murder weapon only to leave the sheath behind with his DNA on it.

Would this be enough to create reasonable doubt in at least one juror?

JMO.

That's a fair question but what if he stole the knife and/or sheath? People commit crimes with stolen weapons all the time. I agree that finding record of a purchase would be helpful, but I don't think it's mandatory. MOOooo

 

[wary]

I agree. I don't see it being something that would help the state in it's case.

The jury may wonder why BK used a knife to kill multiple people when he had access to a gun. JMO.

That’s a weird thing for a juror to wonder about, in my opinion. Reasons could range from relative silence to personal satisfaction. If he’d used a gun, 911 would have been called instantly.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

And, who are against the DP. Also lawyers, anyone who has a family in LE, etc. MOO

Any potential juror against the DP would be an automatic dismissal as this is a Death Penalty case.

MOO

 

[Emilie D]

My biggest unanswered question is how did he keep them quiet? Especially when there were two together in each room. I mean he only has two hands. If you stab once non-fatally, that person can wake up and scream. Yet no one was alerted on either floor above or below.

 

[girlhasnoname]

My biggest unanswered question is how did he keep them quiet? Especially when there were two together in each room. I mean he only has two hands. If you stab once non-fatally, that person can wake up and scream. Yet no one was alerted on either floor above or below.

The majority were asleep, he could have dealt a deathly blow quickly to the chest, neck area and they wouldn't have time or the ability to scream.

MOO

 

[Emilie D]

The majority were asleep, he could have dealt a deathly blow quickly to the chest, neck area and they wouldn't have time or the ability to scream.

MOO

You'd have to be pretty precise in where you stabbed though. Even slicing a throat leaves a person alive and able to move, and make noise. A stab to the heart usually gives a person a few seconds at least before death. Movement and noise can still be made. I'm sure this will be answered during trial but I'm curious.

 

[Warwick7]

One would think that if he had an irrefutable alibi, he would have provided it at time of arrest. It seems as if his alibi is one that cannot be proven so they are leaving up to a jury to decide if they believe it. IMO

I agree with this.

At your arrest LE place you in an interview room. You have a solid alibi but, you don’t provide one? Then you go to jail and you still don't provide one? You keep your alibi to yourself? You’re willing stay in jail another year or more??

No.

I totally agree with @Emilie D

 

[TL4S]

You'd have to be pretty precise in where you stabbed though. Even slicing a throat leaves a person alive and able to move, and make noise. A stab to the heart usually gives a person a few seconds at least before death. Movement and noise can still be made. I'm sure this will be answered during trial but I'm curious.

It wasn't quiet though. DM heard scuffling, talking, and crying. The neighbor's ring cam captured dog barking, talking or whimpering, and a loud thud. That's only what we know about.

I've always thought, too, if one is stabbed anywhere in the upper torso, how easy would it be to breathe or scream at all?

 

[Emilie D]

It wasn't quiet though. DM heard scuffling, talking, and crying. The neighbor's ring cam captured dog barking, talking or whimpering, and a loud thud. That's only what we know about.

I've always thought, too, if one is stabbed anywhere in the upper torso, how easy would it be to breathe or scream at all?

I was more thinking about the second victim in the same bed hearing something and waking up to scream or make noise. I hate to be gross but the gurgling noise from a sucking chest wound or the movement of someone trying to hold their throat closed should have woken the person in bed with them. IMO I knew about the scuffling, talking, and crying I just assumed it would be louder and more panic-filled.

 

[TL4S]

I was more thinking about the second victim in the same bed hearing something and waking up to scream or make noise. I hate to be gross but the gurgling noise from a sucking chest wound or the movement of someone trying to hold their throat closed should have woken the person in bed with them. IMO I knew about the scuffling, talking, and crying I just assumed it would be louder and more panic-filled.

I'm curious about the second person in the same room too. Personally, I don't think KG was in M's bed. I think she came in to MM's room after hearing or seeing something and then got attacked, landing on the bed. But that's just a guess. Downstairs is more curious, but I do wonder if he injured one (crying), killed the other, then went back to kill the first.

 

[Jurisprudence]

Any potential juror against the DP would be an automatic dismissal as this is a Death Penalty case.

MOO

Agree. But unfortunately, people lie. And, IMO, that's where the jury consultant actually earns his or her fee. By looking for evidence online or otherwise that the person is actually against it. Example, MK (his mother), 2008:

mother-bryan-kohberger-death-penalty-murder-unearthed-letters

jmo

 

[10ofRods]

My biggest unanswered question is how did he keep them quiet? Especially when there were two together in each room. I mean he only has two hands. If you stab once non-fatally, that person can wake up and scream. Yet no one was alerted on either floor above or below.

He stabbed them in at least one lung and then the liver. I won't go into details, but if he knew how to use that Marine-style knife, he would have been able to kill silently. That's why the Marines train with it. They aim for 15-30 seconds. Stabbing someone in the lungs and liver is likely going to be pretty quiet. There's a bit of technique involved and of course, requires knowledge of anatomy - however there are online tutorials. Attacking the lungs is listed under "how to kill silently" on one site.

People don't scream if both their lungs are partially destroyed and collapsed. They can't. There was "whimpering." I do believe SG mentioned that lungs and liver were a target, although it's so far back on the media thread, I can't find it.

So, IMO, that's how he did it. Only Xana made noise, IMO. And she could only whimper.

 

[Jurisprudence]

My biggest unanswered question is how did he keep them quiet? Especially when there were two together in each room. I mean he only has two hands. If you stab once non-fatally, that person can wake up and scream. Yet no one was alerted on either floor above or below.

I think they were alerted. MOO. I suspect there is so much we do not know about the witness statements. It's not a crime for the police to lie to the public and issue a statement that a witness slept through it - particularly when they do not have a suspect in custody. Their #1 priority IMO is protecting those witnesses. Tell the perp who is still at large and who is most certainly watching the coverage, that no one saw or heard him.

Notice how that "slept thru it" statement was not recounted in the sworn, filed with the court (as opposed to a statement via the media to the public in the immediate aftermath of the crimes), affidavit of pc? Instead in that affidavit we all learned for the first time that DM saw him.

I think we will learn a lot.

As always, jmo

 

[10ofRods]

I was more thinking about the second victim in the same bed hearing something and waking up to scream or make noise. I hate to be gross but the gurgling noise from a sucking chest wound or the movement of someone trying to hold their throat closed should have woken the person in bed with them. IMO I knew about the scuffling, talking, and crying I just assumed it would be louder and more panic-filled.

As far as I know, the wounds were to the torso (according to the Coroner). And I'm guessing he knew exactly where to place those destructive blows since he studied kick-boxing. No one has ever said any throats were cut, which would not be the way to use that knife, IMO. He held it in the way that Marines are taught to hold it - which enables even a fairly weak person to disable and kill, because the knife is sharp and one uses bodyweight/momentum to do it.

IMO, there was no slashing. He would have had so much blood on him, if he had done it that way - they *would* have found traces in the car. He apparently only stepped in blood (I'll bet it was Xana's).

Further, college students who stay up until 3 am typically sleep really soundly, IME. The time for this reaction would have been really short (30 seconds? less?)

IMO.

 

[Emilie D]

As far as I know, the wounds were to the torso (according to the Coroner). And I'm guessing he knew exactly where to place those destructive blows since he studied kick-boxing. No one has ever said any throats were cut, which would not be the way to use that knife, IMO. He held it in the way that Marines are taught to hold it - which enables even a fairly weak person to disable and kill, because the knife is sharp and one uses bodyweight/momentum to do it.

IMO, there was no slashing. He would have had so much blood on him, if he had done it that way - they *would* have found traces in the car. He apparently only stepped in blood (I'll bet it was Xana's).

Further, college students who stay up until 3 am typically sleep really soundly, IME. The time for this reaction would have been really short (30 seconds? less?)

IMO.

I'm not sure how he only got out stepping in it. I mean, there had to be a ton of blood for it to leak through the walls and out the baseboard of the house. It was visible outside. My point was If my liver was eviscerated, I'm gonna wake up and move or make some kind of noise. Even with a chest wound, both lungs deflated, I can move at least for a few seconds to flail about. It may be that there was some alerting and we just haven't heard about it as @Jurisprudence stated above.

 

[Jurisprudence]

I agree with this.

At your arrest LE place you in an interview room. You have a solid alibi but, you don’t provide one? Then you go to jail and you still don't provide one? You keep your alibi to yourself? You’re willing stay in jail another year or more??

No.

I totally agree with @Emilie D

Not to mention there was only one reported statement from him "[Has] anyone else been arrested?" which came long after the arrest when he was being processed and booked into the PA jail.

There was no report of an excited utterance when they executed the warrant and broke through the door and surrounded the PA home. No reports of "Who are you!? What are you doing!!?" No reports of any excited utterance during all of that time they were in his PA kitchen executing the warrant against his "person" collecting his clothes, flashlight, taking his DNA (Buccal swab - item 9 in the attached) of "I didn't do this!!!"

This is speculation only because I realize we might not know if any statements were made but it is strange that the only report we did hear of was the report of that one statement made after he had some time to collect his thoughts.

jmo

https://www.pacourts.us/Storage/media/pdfs/20230228/185614-dec.29,2022-applicationforsearchwarrantandauthorization.pdf

Source: Kohberger asked if there were other arrests | NewsNation Live

NewsNation's @BrianEntin says he was told by a source that when Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger was arrested, he allegedly asked "if anyone else was arrested." Watch live: www.newsnationnow.com/joinus

www.newsnationnow.com

Everything Bryan Kohberger has said about Idaho murders

In a statement on January 1, Kohberger's public defender said that his client "is eager to be exonerated."

www.newsweek.com