4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #89

[North_Idaho_Nony]

<snipped for focus>

Agree, we should not suspend information from either side and hear the arguments of both the state and the defense, especially since that is what a jury will be charged to do.

As well as not confuse the pre trial phase with the trial itself, which seems to be a significant source of confusion for some, MOO.

Also, MOO, some people don’t accept or have forgotten that there is legal strategy involved in what gets included and what isn’t included in the PCA. PA’s generally include only enough info in PCAs to secure an arrest warrant, they generally don’t give away the darn store.

So, MOO & certainly not directed at you, repeatedly describing the State’s case as “weak” on the basis of the 12/29/2022 PCA drafted to secure a successful arrest warrant is odd to me.

 

[schooling]

I simulated CAST and it is clearly not too far.

Will the defense say this? I have no idea, but shouldn't the prosecutor be forewarned? How would they counter? Ideas?

Dateline made this claim. I doubt AT would say there was "precious little" evidence found during the investigation if the source of the murder weapon had actually been found. But, yes, we are having to wait until trial to find out for absolute certain.

All IMOO.

If a receipt does exist AT is going to say BK's KaBar is not the KaBar used in the crime and there's no way to prove that it is. Or she might put up her own expert witness who says the wounds aren't consistent with a KaBar.

Nothing has been 'proven' or interpreted/considered by a jury in court.

That's the lens all of her statements should be viewed through.

So of course she's going to say there's "precious little". Her client hasn't pleaded guilty so her words on the prosecutions case carry very little weight. They are doing their job and projecting confidence.

Edit: we should also use the same lens to view the "no connections" statement. example: any social account that wasn't explicitly BKs (name and face and pictures) won't be a connection in the defense's eyes. this is why prosecutors will present IPs, hardware and other information that ties him to it.

MOO

 

[Balthazar]

Maybe you could post your simulated CAST. As far as the prosecutor being "forewarned": you do know that discovery works BOTH WAYS. The defense is responsible to give discovery to the prosecution, the same as the prosecution is responsible to give discovery to the defense. That way, there is no trial by ambush. If the defense knows something the prosecution doesn't know, they would be wasting the taxpayers money not disclosing it. And it would also be illegal for them not to do so. If the prosecution found the "source" of the alleged murder weapon, and I'm certain, disclosed it to the defense, the defense is not going to bring that up, just like they haven't brought up the sheath DNA. The defense hasn't yet argued any EVIDENTIARY facts, due to them being FACTS. IMO JMO

<modsnip: discussing moderation> There are only 3 cell towers in Moscow. You cannot go too far wrong. <modsnip - no link provided after a request> Here are the cell towers and their locations:

FCC Registered Cell Phone and Antenna Towers in Moscow, Idaho

What we don't know is if his GPS was on those 12 times and if LE now has more detailed data.

How do you suppose BK being at the library on those 12 nights as opposed to outside 1122 King Rd would affect this case?

 

[katydid23]

<modsnip> There are only 3 cell towers in Moscow. You cannot go too far wrong. <modsnip - no link> Here are the cell towers and their locations:

FCC Registered Cell Phone and Antenna Towers in Moscow, Idaho

What we don't know is if his GPS was on those 12 times and if LE now has more detailed data.

How do you suppose BK being at the library on those 12 nights as opposed to outside 1122 King Rd would affect this case?

It wouldn't matter as long as they had the DNA found under the victims in the upstairs bedroom . Who cares if he says he went to the library in another state instead of his own University library?

Many mass killers kill people who they have very little personal connection to. It is often just a 'type' of victim they are reacting to. He may have resented beautiful sorority girls for all we know.

I don't think the state's case is relying upon him being in that house previously, or specifically watching that one house. I think it is more about him being out and about trolling for victims, scoping out potential crime scenes. He may well have been stalking one or more of the girls, but probably other girls as well. IMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Where is all this <information> information coming from about BK being at a library? It has never been stated where BK went except some female students saying he was staring at them on the U of I campus.

<modsnip>

 

[Sundog]

If a receipt does exist AT is going to say BK's KaBar is not the KaBar used in the crime and there's no way to prove that it is. Or she might put up her own expert witness who says the wounds aren't consistent with a KaBar.

My own thinking is that the defense will stay away from any discussion of the wounds during the trial.

 

[Boxer]

<modsnip: discussing moderation> There are only 3 cell towers in Moscow. You cannot go too far wrong. The information they had at the time the PCA was written placed him within 3/4 of a square mile or 1371 meters (1500 yards) of 1122 King Rd. Here are the cell towers and their locations:

FCC Registered Cell Phone and Antenna Towers in Moscow, Idaho

What we don't know is if his GPS was on those 12 times and if LE now has more detailed data.

How do you suppose BK being at the library on those 12 nights as opposed to outside 1122 King Rd would affect this case?

CAST far more precise than 1500
Yards.

For a single tower CAST yields the distance of the cell phone from the tower, and the direction from the tower in a 30 degree arc.

If the cell phone pings a second tower the the two arcs will have a crossing point and this gives a very precise location.

 

[katydid23]

My own thinking is that the defense will stay away from any discussion of the wounds during the trial.

I don't think they will be able to. They will have to cross the experts, when they discuss the many wounds on the 4 deceased victims.

 

[TL4S]

In the PCA, LE brings BK into the narrative around 2:45 am on Nov. 13, in Pullman, on campus and turning off his phone before heading toward 270, which leads to Moscow. Based on that, I sort of had a picture of BK being in his apartment up until then, which made me question how he would know what was going on at the King Rd house, unless there was an online element we don't know about.

But, then AT stated that BK was out driving around late on the 12th and early on the 13th. One could argue that if this is truly what BK was doing, it doesn't mean it was related to the murders, but I feel like AT inserting the part about him driving late on the 12th might suggest BK needed an alibi for something that occurred on the 12th, as well. JMO.

Since we don't know anything about camera or phone data from late on the 12th, we have no idea where he was, but that data would have likely been collected during the investigation and is well known to the State and the D by now. What we do know is that he was back in Pullman around 2:45 am on the 13th, turning off his phone, and heading in the direction of Moscow.

This is JMO, but it seems awfully suspicious to me that he was likely driving around during the hours that the victims were out and about on the 12th, then we have this void of 45 min to 1 hour between when the victims all got home around 1:45/2 am and when BK was in Pullman (after supposedly already being out driving), turning off his phone and heading in the direction of Moscow, out for another drive. Really? I mean, I can only take a guess, but the fact that AT includes late on the 12th in with early on the 13th for his driving around hints that there might be evidence regarding BK/his phone/his elantra/whatever in Moscow late on the 12th. JMO.

Wild speculation, but I think he was in Moscow late on the 12th, knew when they were all home (or heading home) and maybe saw an opportunity or otherwise made the decision about the time being right. He could have been back to Pullman by 2 or 2:15 (or earlier, depending on what he was doing) and still had a half hour (at least) to do whatever he needed to do and be where he was on campus by 2:45. Let's not forget the unaccounted for time between leaving Pullman and the first camera footage we know of just before 3:30 going west on Indian Hills and then Styner (and yes, I'm willing to assume for now these are all the same white elantra as the one in Pullman). I think when he went back to Pullman, he got some things, and then drove someplace remote somewhere east of Moscow to finish getting ready. IDK, he could have had other reasons he went east during that time gap. We have no way of knowing. Anyway, that's the picture I have now...

 

[Balthazar]

Why do you doubt that? Defense attorneys make this sort of claim all the time.

From the lawyer of the recently-arrested, suspected Long Island/Gilgo Beach serial killer Rex Heuermann:

Gilgo Beach suspect Rex Heuermann’s lawyer argues against cheek swab request for DNA testing: report

The back-and-forth between the defense and prosecutors focused on authorities’ evidence of pizza crusts and a napkin tossed in the garbage that alleged tied Heuermann to one of the three slayings.…

nypost.com

<modsnip: off topic>

She said it in a court document. It was not a statement made to reporters or something she said outside of the court case. She cannot lie in a court document without being in legal peril.

 

[girlhasnoname]

In the PCA, LE brings BK into the narrative around 2:45 am on Nov. 13, in Pullman, on campus and turning off his phone before heading toward 270, which leads to Moscow. Based on that, I sort of had a picture of BK being in his apartment up until then, which made me question how he would know what was going on at the King Rd house, unless there was an online element we don't know about.

But, then AT stated that BK was out driving around late on the 12th and early on the 13th. One could argue that if this is truly what BK was doing, it doesn't mean it was related to the murders, but I feel like AT inserting the part about him driving late on the 12th might suggest BK needed an alibi for something that occurred on the 12th, as well. JMO.

Since we don't know anything about camera or phone data from late on the 12th, we have no idea where he was, but that data would have likely been collected during the investigation and is well known to the State and the D by now. What we do know is that he was back in Pullman around 2:45 am on the 13th, turning off his phone, and heading in the direction of Moscow.

This is JMO, but it seems awfully suspicious to me that he was likely driving around during the hours that the victims were out and about on the 12th, then we have this void of 45 min to 1 hour between when the victims all got home around 1:45/2 am and when BK was in Pullman (after supposedly already being out driving), turning off his phone and heading in the direction of Moscow, out for another drive. Really? I mean, I can only take a guess, but the fact that AT includes late on the 12th in with early on the 13th for his driving around hints that there might be evidence regarding BK/his phone/his elantra/whatever in Moscow late on the 12th. JMO.

Wild speculation, but I think he was in Moscow late on the 12th, knew when they were all home (or heading home) and maybe saw an opportunity or otherwise made the decision about the time being right. He could have been back to Pullman by 2 or 2:15 (or earlier, depending on what he was doing) and still had a half hour (at least) to do whatever he needed to do and be where he was on campus by 2:45. Let's not forget the unaccounted for time between leaving Pullman and the first camera footage we know of just before 3:30 going west on Indian Hills and then Styner (and yes, I'm willing to assume for now these are all the same white elantra as the one in Pullman). I think when he went back to Pullman, he got some things, and then drove someplace remote somewhere east of Moscow to finish getting ready. IDK, he could have had other reasons he went east during that time gap. We have no way of knowing. Anyway, that's the picture I have now...

Could be. I've often wondered if BK didn't notice Maddie and Kaylee on the food truck streaming video and that is what prompted him to head to Moscow. He seems like the type of guy who would watch those online feeds obsessively.

Anything is possible when you you're trying to figure out the mind of a deranged killer, plus we don't have much information because of the gag order.

MOO

 

[Balthazar]

It wouldn't matter as long as they had the DNA found under the victims in the upstairs bedroom . Who cares if he says he went to the library in another state instead of his own University library?

Many mass killers kill people who they have very little personal connection to. It is often just a 'type' of victim they are reacting to. He may have resented beautiful sorority girls for all we know.

I don't think the state's case is relying upon him being in that house previously, or specifically watching that one house. I think it is more about him being out and about trolling for victims, scoping out potential crime scenes. He may well have been stalking one or more of the girls, but probably other girls as well. IMO

Exactly right, which is exactly why my proposal of an alternate reason he may have been nearby should be non-controversial here.

 

[Balthazar]

Could be. I've often wondered if BK didn't notice Maddie and Kaylee on the food truck streaming video and that is what prompted him to head to Moscow. He seems like the type of guy who would watch those online feeds obsessively.

Anything is possible when you you're trying to figure out the mind of a deranged killer, plus we don't have much information because of the gag order.

MOO

How would he know where they lived from the food truck video?

 

[Rumination1]

Could be. I've often wondered if BK didn't notice Maddie and Kaylee on the food truck streaming video and that is what prompted him to head to Moscow. He seems like the type of guy who would watch those online feeds obsessively.

Anything is possible when you you're trying to figure out the mind of a deranged killer, plus we don't have much information because of the gag order.

MOO

I had wondered that too. He was aware of them and their habits and address. On that night he watched for them at the food truck then set off thinking they d be asleep by then .

None of the stuff that’s been located is an error
It was deliberate clues he dropped and set as he was wanting the process to be following the breadcrumbs he left cos he enjoys these “games”
He Chose a death penalty state on purpose because he enjoys the high stakes gamble

IMO only . And RIP poor victoms

 

[Knitty]

MOD NOTE: There is no reason that this thread should be producing more alerts than all of the other threads combined, but as it is, I'll make a few points about the last few days.
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[Chloegirl]

I had wondered that too. He was aware of them and their habits and address. On that night he watched for them at the food truck then set off thinking they d be asleep by then .

None of the stuff that’s been located is an error
It was deliberate clues he dropped and set as he was wanting the process to be following the breadcrumbs he left cos he enjoys these “games”
He Chose a death penalty state on purpose because he enjoys the high stakes gamble

IMO only . And RIP poor victoms

I have a question about that. How common are situations like this, food trucks with this sort of hyper technology? Is this just a late night surveillance tactic or something more. I have meant to do a deep dive about it so if you have any information handy, TIA.

 

[maskedwoman]

I have a question about that. How common are situations like this food trucks with this sort of hyper technology? Is this just a late night surveillance tactic or something more. I have meant to do a deep dive about it so if you have any information handy, TIA.

That is a really excellent question. Silly me didn't even realize places did this until this case, then I forgot all about it. Not to steal your thunder at all, but I googled restaurant webcams and food truck webcams today and wish I hadn't. Bar webcams came up too. Excellent - let's stream drunk people coming and going so criminals can watch them and pick out a victim. I even saw websites dedicated to listing all the places you can watch unsuspecting people dine live. Or you can apparently just google a city name and live webcams and individual locations will helpfully tell you places you can watch people who have no idea you are on the other end watching them. Deep dive away because I am totally creeped out and thinking LE should warn people about creeps potentially using this technology to pick out victims.

 

[10ofRods]

You guys made me curious so I googled "food trucks with live webcams" and immediately found out that they are popular in Spring Break locations and apparently, Florida has quite a few. However, that very same Idaho food truck comes up very high in the results - it's Food Truck Famous, I guess.

I watch a lot of "walker" videos (from all over the world). There are a lot of youtubers who just take city walks and film things - and I've often thought that some of the information provided in those videos would tell a criminally minded person quite a bit. Shows which side streets are uncrowded, what kinds of women are out and about alone, whether nearby businesses are open, and to some extent, where cameras are. Some cities seem way safer than others, that's for sure. I was thinking more about pickpockets using the information, but there have been upticks in assaults against women in some cities (like Paris) and these videos really do show more single women out just after businesses close at 8-9 pm and which places have few people on the streets.

So there are various vectors by which each of us could be "surveilled" and I'm not sure I ever thought about it before. If it is the case that BK regularly tuned into the Food Truck (the way I regularly tune into my favorite Walk channel), it would have shown him that Maddie was back in town (if he was watching her Insta, he might have known she was moving away - although I can't remember if it was truly explicit on her Insta - she was pretty careful about just posting her pics without saying too much).

If THAT happened, wow. He would have known they were somewhat inebriated and known the time that they were heading home.

I think these live feeds are likely very popular for students, as one can have the sound down, feel as as if one is still part of the "community" while doing studying. In other words, while many people might start this habit in an innocuous way, it falls into a set of opportunistic circumstances and parasocial relationships.

IMO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I had wondered that too. He was aware of them and their habits and address. On that night he watched for them at the food truck then set off thinking they d be asleep by then .

None of the stuff that’s been located is an error
It was deliberate clues he dropped and set as he was wanting the process to be following the breadcrumbs he left cos he enjoys these “games”
He Chose a death penalty state on purpose because he enjoys the high stakes gamble

IMO only . And RIP poor victoms

I can see this. BK had to know he was going to be caught, I think he might have even left the sheath intentionally. Now it's just a game of cat and mouse for him like you mentioned.

He was a criminal justice major, he knew what/how LE processed crime scenes. That could explain why he did bring his phone, drove his own car, circled the street in front 4 times. Those are the first things most of the average Joe knows let alone a criminology major.

Maybe the challenge for BK now is to try and beat the system? See if his Defense can get him off on a technicality, I honestly don't see that happening personally.

Perhaps he wants to experience the 'entire psychological ride' of murder (remember that survey he did on Reddit); from the planning, the actual killing, the arrest, the trial and the sentencing. I do believe BK has some very deep seated issues that will come out during the trial.

ALL JMO

 

[Sjöberg]

In the PCA, LE brings BK into the narrative around 2:45 am on Nov. 13, in Pullman, on campus and turning off his phone before heading toward 270, which leads to Moscow. Based on that, I sort of had a picture of BK being in his apartment up until then, which made me question how he would know what was going on at the King Rd house, unless there was an online element we don't know about.

I have been thinking about this since we got the PCA, too.
I feel like he had to somehow know that his target(s) was home and somewhat alone.

What if he arrives with a kill kit and there is an impromptu party going on? Girls having boys over (well, Xana did)? Girls going elsewhere to spend the night? Of course, in some cases he would simply change his mind and drive back home (had he done that before?). But what and how did he know as he departed Pullman..?