Can you expand on this? It's an interesting idea. How would this be damning?
4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #90
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Albertsons cameras show BK with his phone and his car in one place, 30 minutes after he had been at 1122 for a morning after drive by scene.
In addition the daytime footage from King Rd. will help key his vehicle to the night drive bys.
The Albertsons camera footage is hours later. See my exchange with 10ofRods a couple posts ago. The morning visit to Moscow was at 9, Albertsons footage is frm around 1pm. He returned to Pullman in between the two.
We know for 100% sure he made that trip to Albertsons . The rest of his itinerary, unfortunately, is only alleged at this point.
As far as I know, at this time, the ping data only puts him in an area consistent with Moscow, meaning in an area covered by the Moscow cell tower. It doesn't put him at 1122 king road.
Does anyone have a more precise map than this one? This is what appeared in the Idaho Statesman article as being the area covered by that tower. It's quite a broad area, with no other tower overlapping near King Road to triangulate with.
I don't think BK will claim someone else drove his car that night. I think he will say, the Elantra on camera that night is not his Elantra in all the footage. "Yes that was my Elantra leaving Pullman, but no that wasn't mine making three passes in front of the house that night". The defense will probably question whether the State disregarded any footage that showed other white elantras heading in other directions also covered by that tower.
This will, of course depend on the quality of the footage. IF the footage of the three passes shows a missing plate on the Elantra, he won't be able to deny it's his car. If however, it's just a blurry profile view of the vehicle, he definitely will claim that's not his Elantra.
katydid23
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I doubt they will be relying upon this old cell ping map from the PCA time. That was put together almost a year ago. By the time they go to trial they will have much more detailed, accurate data.
They will have the CAST data by then:
(U) The CAST provides FBI FOs with access to a group of highly trained and well-equipped personnel who conduct cellular analysis and cellular network surveys. CAST assets are trained and certified to acquire cellular telephone evidence, as generated by cellular providers, in a manner suitable for use in a court of law.
UNCLASSIFIED//FOUO - (U) Cellular Analysis Survey Team Policy Guide
They should also have some satellite data to make it even more precise. JMO
The PCA was put forth quickly, and quite awhile ago. There has been so much more time and resources spent on this investigation since then. JMO
RSBM
"IF the footage of the three passes shows a missing plate on the Elantra, he won't be able to deny it's his car. If however, it's just a blurry profile view of the vehicle, he definitely will claim that's not his Elantra."
Quote from your post above. For starters, just from the footage we are currently aware of SV1 is on Indian Hills drive at around 3,26am to 3.29 am and per pca the vehicle appears appears to be sporting a single plate. SV1 is then shown to proceed to King road where picked up by multiple cameras doing its passes in the neighbourhood. Imo, P will be demonstrating SV1's continuity. There is evidence. P will put up experts for this and naturally the D will contest.
"We know for 100% sure he made that trip to Albertsons . The rest of his itinerary, unfortunately, is only alleged at this point."
Re the above statement, nothing unfortunate at all about confluence of BK's phone pings with video -it is fantastic evidence unless defence is able to counter that BK was not driving and had leant out his phone. Strikes me they wont be - see the alibi court docs. IMo, there is strong evidence that BK was 30 mins south of 1122 at 4,48am because we know the elantra and phone travelled together to Pullman - elantra picked up by multiple cams in Pullman from 5.25am. And as already analysed we know BK's phone travelled from the vicinity of steptoe appts to Nevada before it was switched off. This is congruent with footage.Moo but see PCA. I consider this to be most fortunate evidence,that has forced BK into stating an intention to claim some sort of "driving around alibi". To me, this means it is likely, that the D concedes the above at least. I've already addressed the post -crime visit to Moscow in previous post and can't see much point in repeating here. Moo
I dis gree strongly with your understanding of the ping data, but also note that this is just the pca. LE received that data on 23rd Dec and BK was arrested on 30th. The P is not done with location data. Experts who know much more than you or I will lay that out at trial. Moo
There have been plenty of discussions here on the elantra - very detailed and considered ones -on previous threads.Moo
Sorry got time line of the 1122 to Albertsons off.
SpiderFalcon
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Just one thing to add, about this^^^^^....How do you (or any of us) KNOW there was nothing there (with regard to evidence in BKs car)? The return warrant for the car is under seal. It's all just media speculation. And before anyone chimes in that the Defense stated that there was "NO CONNECTION" to the victims, they also filed a motion to dismiss on 8/23/23, alleging "Prosecutorial Misconduct", which was dismissed. Just because the Defense says something, does not make it FACTUAL EVIDENCE. JMO, IMO
Agree. It's not surprising a criminology student would do a good job keeping clean.
I hope you are right, @jepop, and that there has been more precise location data revealed by CAST. I have doubts however, because if precise data was available, placing him definitively at Kings Road, six grand jurors wouldn't have requested more in May. So I don't think the CAST gave that much more (this is not meant as a disparagement of the people who run these tests). All of my hopes lie on what might be extracted from the digital warrants, which were replied to only after the Grand Jury.
I hope all of the footage they have is undoubtedly
Based on what little we have seen now, the only solid thing is that a white sedan made three passes in front of the King road residence while BK's cell phone was in a twelve mile radius of the Moscow tower. Nothing more than that has been shown to us, AFAIK. These things worry me.
@SpiderFalcon , in the June 22 filing, Logsdon states: “There is no explanation for the total lack of DNA evidence from the victims in Mr. Kohberger’s apartment, office, home, or vehicle." Defense attorneys can play with words, but they can't just flat out lie to the judge about a total lack of DNA evidence. We can speculate that no DNA evidence remains because BK cleaned his car, but the end result is none was found. Our feelings say there must have been something in the car. The facts as we know them now say otherwise.
I hope all of the footage they have is undoubtedly
Based on what little we have seen now, the only solid thing is that a white sedan made three passes in front of the King road residence while BK's cell phone was in a twelve mile radius of the Moscow tower. Nothing more than that has been shown to us, AFAIK. These things worry me.
@SpiderFalcon , in the June 22 filing, Logsdon states: “There is no explanation for the total lack of DNA evidence from the victims in Mr. Kohberger’s apartment, office, home, or vehicle." Defense attorneys can play with words, but they can't just flat out lie to the judge about a total lack of DNA evidence. We can speculate that no DNA evidence remains because BK cleaned his car, but the end result is none was found. Our feelings say there must have been something in the car. The facts as we know them now say otherwise.
BBM: I disagree - we don't know what 'more' the GJ requested nor the context. Those proceedings are unavailable to the public. The P's case and location data will be presented at trial. It's currently under seal. Moo
SpiderFalcon
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Agree, however, do we know that all the testing has been done? That all the DNA evidence has been tested and returned? Especially at the time he made that statement: June 22? My opinion is "none was found" YET.
But BK's DNA was processed at the Idaho crime lab, not at Verogen labs. Is there any proof that the Idaho crime lab has the same up to date technology for processing DNA that Verogen labs has?
@SpiderFalcon ,
the material from all these sources was originally tested for blood immediately in December. The certainly did not wait around six months to test DNA. Per the Verogen employee interviewed in the Bloodline documentary I mentioned earlier in this thread, touch DNA testing takes 28hours from the moment the sample is fed into the machine. Simple paternity tests can be done even faster, same with a simple matching of DNA sample to victims' DNA. I have no doubt they had all the blood and hair, or anything else found within BK's car, apartment and office, fully tested by June 22.
the material from all these sources was originally tested for blood immediately in December. The certainly did not wait around six months to test DNA. Per the Verogen employee interviewed in the Bloodline documentary I mentioned earlier in this thread, touch DNA testing takes 28hours from the moment the sample is fed into the machine. Simple paternity tests can be done even faster, same with a simple matching of DNA sample to victims' DNA. I have no doubt they had all the blood and hair, or anything else found within BK's car, apartment and office, fully tested by June 22.
@Balthazar,
The Idaho lab originally tested but found nothing.
Then, supposedly, the sheath itself was sent to the out of state lab (Othram). It was not just a sample, they sent the entire sheath (!), according to interview below by NewsNation.
Othram would have the latest and greatest tech. However, if this is true, the defense will obviously have questions about chain of custody.
Edit: sorry I linked the wrong video. This is the right one:
The Idaho lab originally tested but found nothing.
Then, supposedly, the sheath itself was sent to the out of state lab (Othram). It was not just a sample, they sent the entire sheath (!), according to interview below by NewsNation.
Othram would have the latest and greatest tech. However, if this is true, the defense will obviously have questions about chain of custody.
Edit: sorry I linked the wrong video. This is the right one:
Last edited:
gremlin444
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I'm going to go double check to see if any of the court documents specifically state this information. Because at this point, it was Howard Blum who was saying it....and we have already found where he has been factually incorrect as well as just made things up.
gremlin444
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That information is incorrect, per the State's Motion for Protective Order on June 16, 2023. The ISP found the DNA on the sheath and created a STR that they submitted to CODIS. They received no CODIS hits.
"The Idaho State Police Lab inMeridian, Idaho, located DNA on the Ka-Bar knife sheath. The ISP laboratory determined the DNA came from single source and that the source was male.Once law enforcement had single-source DNA from the Ka-Bar knife sheath, they conducted what is called short tandem repeat (“STR”) analysis....Law enforcement submitted the STRDNA profile obtained from the Ka-Bar knife sheath to the Combined DNA Index System(“CODIS”), database of STR DNA profilesfrom convicted offenders, arrestees, and crimescene evidence, to identifythe source of the DNA. No match was found.Unable to find match using STR DNA analysis, law enforcement decided to useInvestigative Genetic Genealogy to find lead."
The defense even acknowledges this as fact in their Objection to States Motion for Protective Order on June 22nd.
"On November 20, 2022, the ldaho State Police Lab in Meridian, Idaho located DNA on the button of the sheath and performed STR analysis that led nowhere when ran through CODIS (Combined DNA IndexSystem), other than to show the provider was male."
SpiderFalcon
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This is a page from the return on his APARTMENT. Have any of us seen the pages on the return of his CAR? Yes, they may have already tested ALL THE DNA, but have we seen it? I'm waiting, impatiently, for some documents to be unsealed....IMO, JMO.
Thank you so much for clarifying that, @gremlin444 !
Wow, another MSM nothingburger.
Wow, another MSM nothingburger.
10ofRods
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I'll just say that the estimate of how long the DNA testing takes leaves out the fact that the FBI sent a mobile DNA testing lab to the crime scene, AFAIK.
Also, the time varies wildly from place to place (and can be as short as 2 hours - and it makes no difference whether we're talking so-called "touch" DNA (not a scientific concept unless better defined, "Trace" DNA or DNA still present with some of its cell matter (which is usually is).
Where I live, if LE wants the results in 2-10 hours, that's entirely possible. My county has its own mobile lab for collection and it takes 1-2 hours at the sequencer to run the STR report.
I agree that it was all tested by June - just bringing this up, because it's interesting to think about how the various DNA profiles found (there must have been many, many profiles in that house) contributed to gradually providing the investigators a picture.
May I ask the source for this document? It doesn't have a label to indicate which case it belongs to. Is this from the King Road case? Or am I missing something today (entirely possible!)
I see that someone else asked and you answered - it's from the warrant return for the apartment, right? Is it on the media thread? It isn't labeled, so I thought it was from King Road - which was making things very confusing.
IMO.
10ofRods
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There is no reason for blood or DNA to have been found in the Steptoe apartment, if BK used even a fraction of his intelligence. It worried me all along - I was way more optimistic about the car, but he had a very long time to keep cleaning and bleaching it. Or dog hairs.
I think the crucial thing is that he must have taken off his shoes, bagged them (wearing gloves), then taken off the rest of his kill suit, and his mask, and put them in bags. He either had other clothes on underneath a couple of removable layers (likely) or he put on other clothes from his trunk (gloved) when he got to the car. There were posters who had military experience in some of our first threads, who said that people train to be able to strip down in 30 seconds and redress in even less time.
Then he tossed the gloves into that bag before ever touching any part of his car except the trunk area (which I assume he left open before he went into the house).
He must not have noticed the missing sheath (or been afraid he was seen and LE was about to arrive). His big concern had to be how to get the knife into the bag (I'm thinking he brought some kind of camping duffle, something that wouldn't easily break open, spill, or be poked by a knife). To me, it seems that he would have had to wrap the unsheathed knife in clothing as he did all this. Maybe stuck it inside a shoe. But surely he knew it was missing, already? This makes me think he did see DM out of the corner of his eye, but fled anyway - and went through with his memorized and highly rehearsed plan.
Everything about this crime says highly rehearsed/practiced to me.
All the blood/hair/dog hair evidence was on whatever clothing he wore, which is likely dropped into a river. Weighted in whatever container he chose. I'm thinking a waterproof type bag (like ones easily found at Target or WalMart) with a zipper and a weight already in it was his choice.
IMO. Speculating based on what facts I think we have.
I think the crucial thing is that he must have taken off his shoes, bagged them (wearing gloves), then taken off the rest of his kill suit, and his mask, and put them in bags. He either had other clothes on underneath a couple of removable layers (likely) or he put on other clothes from his trunk (gloved) when he got to the car. There were posters who had military experience in some of our first threads, who said that people train to be able to strip down in 30 seconds and redress in even less time.
Then he tossed the gloves into that bag before ever touching any part of his car except the trunk area (which I assume he left open before he went into the house).
He must not have noticed the missing sheath (or been afraid he was seen and LE was about to arrive). His big concern had to be how to get the knife into the bag (I'm thinking he brought some kind of camping duffle, something that wouldn't easily break open, spill, or be poked by a knife). To me, it seems that he would have had to wrap the unsheathed knife in clothing as he did all this. Maybe stuck it inside a shoe. But surely he knew it was missing, already? This makes me think he did see DM out of the corner of his eye, but fled anyway - and went through with his memorized and highly rehearsed plan.
Everything about this crime says highly rehearsed/practiced to me.
All the blood/hair/dog hair evidence was on whatever clothing he wore, which is likely dropped into a river. Weighted in whatever container he chose. I'm thinking a waterproof type bag (like ones easily found at Target or WalMart) with a zipper and a weight already in it was his choice.
IMO. Speculating based on what facts I think we have.
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