4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #91

[arielilane]

MOSCOW, Idaho (Court TV) — A petition seeking to save the house where four University of Idaho students were brutally murdered appears to have support from one victim’s mother.

A petition was posted on Change.org seeking to “halt the demolition of the King Road house until after trial,” in the wake of an announcement by the University of Idaho that demolition would begin on Dec. 28.

The house on King Road was the site where Xana Kernodle, Madison Mogen, Kaylee Goncalves and Ethan Chapin were stabbed to death on Nov. 13, 2022. Bryan Kohberger has been charged with their murders and faces a potential death sentence if convicted.

The four victims were students at the University of Idaho, which purchased the off-campus property in the wake of the murders. The school initially announced plans to tear the house down in February, before delaying plans because of the trial’s anticipated start date.

On Thursday, the university said that Kohberger’s defense team was visiting the site twice more before the demolition’s scheduled start.

Victim's mother signs petition to save site of Idaho student murders

Posted at 12:51 PM, December 18, 2023

The University of Idaho has said it plans to create a healing garden and memorial in memory of the four students killed.

 

[Odeto BJ]

Barring a guilty plea: We are going to see some dozens of photos of this house and its surroundings during the trial and at least a digital model if not a physical scale model. The interior photos are not going to represent what the interior currently looks like, we pretty much know it has been gutted to the studs inside, we have indication the carpets were stripped out in some areas. In its current state it will probably be one of the fastest knockdowns of a house that size the demo company has ever done.

Obviously we can't know that there is anything of the interior that would represent additional evidence but the declaration from the DA would serve to indicate: They don't expect there is anything remaining to be found, and/or whatever could be remaining in the house they don't need it, the evidence to convict is already plenty to convince a jury, in their mind.

While I can understand that some would think that the demolition could destroy potential evidence and a jury tour may have value, I think the prosecution's attitude indicates a high level of confidence in what they already have, and I am happy to hear that much. Still want to see a full trial because the chasm in the case is motive, or maybe more like comprehension.

We all really wanna know why. JMO.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Not saying this because I believe BK went there with the aim of rape - I don't think he did, I think he went to kill - but Joseph DeAngelo wore mask and gloves while committing his crimes.

MOO

I've been away for about 6 months, I'm so behind! But back here and there as hard to keep up with the pace and discussion.

Sorry, so I'm jumping off your post about the rape discussion! Probably already mentioned... there was likely a sexual nature to the crime without actual rape.

Not sure how to word this *GRAPHIC SORRY*... I'm sure BK was aroused from the power and the kill. He might not have raped any of the girls with his body while "in the moment" of the crime but that doesn't mean he didn't ahem... "enjoy himself" sexually during the act (or after) or even possibly use the weapon or object in a grotesque way.

Some killers have their memories of crimes to replay in their head while in prison that turns them on too. Sick, messed up stuff

 

[maskedwoman]

Do you think it will be a pre-trial appeal of the evidentiary motions? An appeal of the motion to dismiss? That (motion to dismiss) appeal would be astonishing, legally, at least to me. So, while it is possible to appeal a ruling on any motion, AFAIK, it's very unusual to appeal a denial of a motion to dismiss. I predict the next higher court would confirm the Superior Court Judge. So then - it would head upward, toward ISC. This would take months. Maybe a year just to get up to ISC, and then...a wait. This case is so bizarre, I suppose anything could happen. The appeals judges would also have access to anything given to them by the prosecution (such as the GJ materials - which clearly include some evidence that was not in the PCA).

If so, it's quite interesting that the Defense is adding a possible 1-3 years to BK's time in jail (maybe even more - I don't know how Idaho's public defenders are funded - an appeal to SCOTUS is extremely long and expensive). It would make this case historic in many ways (for something as basic as a pre-trial motion to get to the SCOTUS, I mean - although everyone has the right to appeal). And in the end, I believe the original court order would be upheld - and the other courts are not bound by any gag order, so it's all quite interesting. Surely AT doesn't really want the gruesome details in materials sent to the higher court - and the Supreme Court usually puts both sides of the case on the public record. So at some point, I think AT has to stop with the appeals - or risk a motion that says she's being an incompetent attorney (if the facts get out in the public mind before any trial).

At some point, I imagine whoever is charge of the overall public lawyer system in Idaho will have a thing or to to say.

AT doesn't operate as a free agent, in a vacuum. I think she might take it one step higher, but no more than that. After trial, I believe the common practice in death penalty cases is to exhaust all appeals (if he gets LWOP, probably just as likely to appeal - but he'll be in prison for 10 years while that goes on). Personally, I think she's just preserving the right to appeal on various issues - but will not actually appeal right now. I could be very wrong.

So if there are pre-trial appeals PLUS the 10 years after sentencing, he will have served quite a term of incarceration. I am assuming of course, that he'll be convicted. One reason I believe that is...that his Defense is acting as if they have no chance at trial, with this nickel and dime type stuff (and the Hail Mary of the IGG challenge).

IMO.

IANAL but I do think she might take the pretrial issues at least one step higher. I'm basing that on the fact that she's made new law before, plus the content of their motions thus far seem based on pretty thin broth. I'm not even sure why they made some of them, they seem so far-fetched. I have been wondering at what point unfairly accusing someone of prosecutorial misconduct gets you in trouble. But I also think this is the sort of case that, if you can win, makes people say your name in reverential tones. The problem for his legal team is that he seems pretty darned guilty. I just hope, when all is said and done, with our mouths hanging open in shock like we were with the Casey Anthony verdict.

 

[Emerald1328]

Interesting dichotomy emerges, right?

I personally think he came prepared to kill and kill quickly (but may have also thought about rape). I could spin all kinds of probable thought processes for a criminal with these intentions. We know that Joe DeAngelo didn't *always* rape, but that he started early with both hot prowling and trophy collecting - and sexual fantasies about young girls, whom he stalked (and then zeroed in on one girl, peeping through her windows, and then entering the house - armed - and attempting to kidnap her; her father was shot trying to defend her).

So many elements of different crimes - which BK had thoroughly studied in Ramsland's class.

BTK. Ted Bundy, Joe DeAngelo, Elliot Rodger. I'm sure there are others. A sexual/rape motivation can certain be posited. Perhaps KG's presence changed that. Or something else changed it.

IMO.

Bbm

I also think he came to kill and kill as many as he could, just for the thrill of it. I thought that about the suspect from what we knew even before BK was arrested, but the Reddit survey cemented that thought for me.

 

[10ofRods]

I've been away for about 6 months, I'm so behind! But back here and there as hard to keep up with the pace and discussion.

Sorry, so I'm jumping off your post about the rape discussion! Probably already mentioned... there was likely a sexual nature to the crime without actual rape.

Not sure how to word this *GRAPHIC SORRY*... I'm sure BK was aroused from the power and the kill. He might not have raped any of the girls with his body while "in the moment" of the crime but that doesn't mean he didn't ahem... "enjoy himself" sexually during the act (or after) or even possibly use the weapon or object in a grotesque way.

Some killers have their memories of crimes to replay in their head while in prison that turns them on too. Sick, messed up stuff

Or, in the absence of the desired response in his body, he simply grew more angry. That happens too. Total inchoate frustration and rage taking over (but still, as always, married to his plans - his "intellectual" and studied plans).

It's possible he did use the weapon in a grotesque way. It seems to me that's likely. And yes, regardless of outcome, he gets to relive in prison. Very very messed up, if any of this is remotely true - and thank you for broaching the subject so delicately.

We are speculating, but clearly, almost no one ever commits a crime like this one and some of it (women seem to be the target; BK has problems with women) just lends itself to this interpretation. As one possible interpretation.

IMO.

 

[Justice101]

Bbm

I also think he came to kill and kill as many as he could, just for the thrill of it. I thought that about the suspect from what we knew even before BK was arrested, but the Reddit survey cemented that thought for me.

I actually think he wanted to gravitate to serial killer. The kind of person he was fascinated with.

I think he wanted to get started with a single murder that could not be solved.

And then from there on over the next few years, murder another or two with the same signature (leaving a knife sheath each time with no DNA).

That is totally my own opinion. I think he was obsessed with serial killers and wanted to be one.

 

[Justice101]

WooHoo, let's get this show on the road, justice for Maddie, Kaylee, Xana and Ethan. BK needs to get to trial ASAP IMO. I just know that this Defense is going to drag their heels as long as they can, but at some point it's going to happen.

MOO

Important thing in my mind is he is in jail... and will remain there if and when a trial happens and thereafter for life... if he did it.

So will not be released to do this ever again

 

[Swansee]

BK's parents made a brief statement shortly after his arrest saying they believed their son was innocent, but since then it's been radio silence. I don't believe they are gagged, although, if the defense plans to call on them as character witnesses, the gag order may also apply to them.
I understand this crime has affected their family in unfair ways and they're probably hoping to stay under the radar, but I wish we could see them be interviewed respectfully by a proper journalist. I'm not counting on it though.
As Christmas draws near I am obviously thinking first and foremost of the victims' families, who are going to have to endure a second Christmas without their beloved children, but I can't help but also think of the Kohbergers and their sad situation. Do they still believe in his innocence? If not, what a strange feeling it must be.

 

[al66pine]

Did Parents Say They Believed BK was Innocent?

BK's parents made a brief statement shortly after his arrest saying they believed their son was innocent, but since then it's been radio silence.....

snipped for focus @Swansee A good post.

I found this re parents' publicly released stmt:*
"We... promote his presumption of innocence rather than judge unknown facts and make erroneous assumptions." (sbm)

Not quite the same as saying they believe he's innocent.

Speaking gen'ly, not to this specific case, many optimistic parents in this position publicly & boldly assert, Our boy didn't do that; he is 100% innocent. Some continue saying that after conviction, and some still swear it after appellate ct affirms criminal conviction.
Even when a parent may acknowledge privately or only to self--- I don't know if my son committed murder; I hope not -- do any publicly release a stmt worded that way?

_____________________________________
* I beieve this is the parents' entire stmt.
"First and foremost we care deeply for the four families who have lost their precious children. There are no words that can adequately express the sadness we feel, and we pray each day for them.
"We will continue to let the legal process unfold and as a family we will love and support our son and brother. We have fully cooperated with law enforcement agencies in an attempt to seek the truth and promote his presumption of innocence rather than judge unknown facts and make erroneous assumptions.
"We request privacy in this matter as our family and the families suffering loss can move forward through the legal process."
^ Newsweek, Jan 3, 2023.

What Bryan Kohberger's parents have said about the Idaho murders

Suspect Bryan Kohberger's parents have called for privacy as they support their son while cooperating with law enforcement.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Swansee]

You are right, @al66pine . I guess my memory is blurry and I conflated their statement with that of LaBar:
"Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger's family is "shocked" and doesn't believe he slaughtered four college students, according to a report.

"They don’t believe it to be Bryan. They can’t believe this," Monroe County Chief Public Defender Jason LaBar told NBC News. "They’re obviously shocked. This is certainly completely out of character, the allegations, and really they’re just trying to be supportive with the understanding that these four families have suffered loss.""

Bryan Kohberger's family 'shocked,' believes police nabbed wrong man in Idaho murders: report | FOX6 Milwaukee

"They don’t believe it to be Bryan. They can’t believe this:" Bryan Christopher Kohberger's family believes police arrested the wrong suspect for the Nov. 13 murders of four University of Idaho students.

www.fox6now.com

 

[Sleuth2010]

Continued appreciation and blessings to all law enforcement and their support teams, who took this vicious killer off the streets.

This was amazing and gifted work ( including across state lines ) and under such duress. All involved,we give eternal thanks. Justice is being served. Heartprints and love to those hurting.

 

[al66pine]

BK's Parents' Statement?

You are right, @al66pine . I guess my memory is blurry and I conflated their statement with that of LaBar:
"Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger's family is "shocked" and doesn't believe he slaughtered four college students, according to a report.

"They don’t believe it to be Bryan. They can’t believe this," Monroe County Chief Public Defender Jason LaBar told NBC News. "They’re obviously shocked. This is certainly completely out of character, the allegations, and really they’re just trying to be supportive with the understanding that these four families have suffered loss.""

Bryan Kohberger's family 'shocked,' believes police nabbed wrong man in Idaho murders: report | FOX6 Milwaukee

"They don’t believe it to be Bryan. They can’t believe this:" Bryan Christopher Kohberger's family believes police arrested the wrong suspect for the Nov. 13 murders of four University of Idaho students.

www.fox6now.com

.

@Swansee
Thanks for your response, esp'ly w link & additional LaBar quotes in MSM reports.

Fuzzy? No worries. Conflated? No worries. I've done it numerous times on Websleuths and IRL. Easy to conflate these stmts by various ppl, family, atty's, reporters, legal analysts online, et al, since those articles were published nearly a year ago.

Absolutely dreadful to imagine being in BK's parents' shoes w media expecting you to speak. What a nightmare.

And worse for families of the four student victims.

 

[al66pine]

dbm

 

[Justice101]

Did Parents Say They Believed BK was Innocent?

snipped for focus @Swansee A good post.

I found this re parents' publicly released stmt:*
"We... promote his presumption of innocence rather than judge unknown facts and make erroneous assumptions." (sbm)

Not quite the same as saying they believe he's innocent.

Speaking gen'ly, not to this specific case, many optimistic parents in this position publicly & boldly assert, Our boy didn't do that; he is 100% innocent. Some continue saying that after conviction, and some still swear it after appellate ct affirms criminal conviction.
Even when a parent may acknowledge privately or only to self--- I don't know if my son committed murder; I hope not -- do any publicly release a stmt worded that way?

_____________________________________
* I beieve this is the parents' entire stmt.
"First and foremost we care deeply for the four families who have lost their precious children. There are no words that can adequately express the sadness we feel, and we pray each day for them.
"We will continue to let the legal process unfold and as a family we will love and support our son and brother. We have fully cooperated with law enforcement agencies in an attempt to seek the truth and promote his presumption of innocence rather than judge unknown facts and make erroneous assumptions.
"We request privacy in this matter as our family and the families suffering loss can move forward through the legal process."
^ Newsweek, Jan 3, 2023.

What Bryan Kohberger's parents have said about the Idaho murders

Suspect Bryan Kohberger's parents have called for privacy as they support their son while cooperating with law enforcement.

www.newsweek.com

Yep, that is NOT a resounding statement that he is innocent.

Poor parents.

 

[Boxer]

Barring a guilty plea: We are going to see some dozens of photos of this house and its surroundings during the trial and at least a digital model if not a physical scale model. The interior photos are not going to represent what the interior currently looks like, we pretty much know it has been gutted to the studs inside, we have indication the carpets were stripped out in some areas. In its current state it will probably be one of the fastest knockdowns of a house that size the demo company has ever done.

Obviously we can't know that there is anything of the interior that would represent additional evidence but the declaration from the DA would serve to indicate: They don't expect there is anything remaining to be found, and/or whatever could be remaining in the house they don't need it, the evidence to convict is already plenty to convince a jury, in their mind.

While I can understand that some would think that the demolition could destroy potential evidence and a jury tour may have value, I think the prosecution's attitude indicates a high level of confidence in what they already have, and I am happy to hear that much. Still want to see a full trial because the chasm in the case is motive, or maybe more like comprehension.

We all really wanna know why. JMO.

I say leave it and maybe the cost of the securty be findraised in some way.

I think nothing will duplicate seeing in person what GH showed in his videos of BMs routes and stops that night.
That the parking spot behind 1122 offered a practical picture window into MMs room.

 

[whiterhino]

Just adding to the conversation that there was a sexual element to this crime. Remember that BK was in and out of there in under 10 minutes, not much time for SA. JMO.

 

[whiterhino]

Yes. I think when I used the word rape it was the wrong word.

I think sexual assault is more appropriate. Sexual assault can be just touching a person's body inappropriately. But there was power and control involved.

I don't get why people believe that BK touched his victims over and over with a knife but then not believe he is capable of planning to touch them in a sexual assaultive way. He proved he is more than capable of this.

He could have planned to assault one of them and also commit murder to keep from getting caught. To stop the victim from reporting him.

2 Cents

SA includes rape FWIW.

He was in and out in 10 minutes, not really enough time to SA and murder IMO. Idk if he thought he had more time had other things in mind or if he did exactly what he set out to do. I personally don't think he intended to SA anyone that night.

 

[10ofRods]

SA includes rape FWIW.

He was in and out in 10 minutes, not really enough time to SA and murder IMO. Idk if he thought he had more time had other things in mind or if he did exactly what he set out to do. I personally don't think he intended to SA anyone that night.

SA includes not rape too - and there are assaults that can be done with a knife and assaults that can be done very quickly. VERY quickly.

I think he was there slightly longer than 10 minutes, btw. He may have left sooner than he expected to. No way to know.

We're all just speculating.

Some rapes are done with objects, btw. They are still rapes under law in both Idaho and California (and most other states), IIRC.

A man was raped with an object on my college campus. But I do believe that if such a thing had occurred in this case, there would have been clear charges related to it. I think it could be something quasi-sexual. Indeed, stabbing sleeping women in their bed with a knife has sexual overtones to it, in my opinion. "Stabs to the torso" could be sexual in nature. If I were the State, I wouldn't charge a sex crime in addition, in that case, I'd leave it up to the jury to think about it on their own.

And they would. They surely would. So those autopsies (esp of the two women on the third floor) are going to be evidence of just what kind of crime this was. I can think of several facts about this case that could lead to such an interpretation (esp. what SG said near the beginning).

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Or, in the absence of the desired response in his body, he simply grew more angry. That happens too. Total inchoate frustration and rage taking over (but still, as always, married to his plans - his "intellectual" and studied plans).

It's possible he did use the weapon in a grotesque way. It seems to me that's likely. And yes, regardless of outcome, he gets to relive in prison. Very very messed up, if any of this is remotely true - and thank you for broaching the subject so delicately.

We are speculating, but clearly, almost no one ever commits a crime like this one and some of it (women seem to be the target; BK has problems with women) just lends itself to this interpretation. As one possible interpretation.

IMO.

Good point, he seems so cowardly and frustrated in life that I truly hope I'm wrong.