4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #91

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Did Parents Say They Believed BK was Innocent?

snipped for focus @Swansee :) A good post.

I found this re parents' publicly released stmt:*
"We... promote his presumption of innocence rather than judge unknown facts and make erroneous assumptions." (sbm)

Not quite the same as saying they believe he's innocent.

Speaking gen'ly, not to this specific case, many optimistic parents in this position publicly & boldly assert, Our boy didn't do that; he is 100% innocent. Some continue saying that after conviction, and some still swear it after appellate ct affirms criminal conviction.
Even when a parent may acknowledge privately or only to self--- I don't know if my son committed murder; I hope not -- do any publicly release a stmt worded that way?

_____________________________________
* I beieve this is the parents' entire stmt.
"First and foremost we care deeply for the four families who have lost their precious children. There are no words that can adequately express the sadness we feel, and we pray each day for them.
"We will continue to let the legal process unfold and as a family we will love and support our son and brother. We have fully cooperated with law enforcement agencies in an attempt to seek the truth and promote his presumption of innocence rather than judge unknown facts and make erroneous assumptions.
"We request privacy in this matter as our family and the families suffering loss can move forward through the legal process."
^ Newsweek, Jan 3, 2023.


Monroe County public defender Jason LaBar represented Kohberger before he was extradited to Idaho.

Jason LaBar:
The family would want the general public to know that Bryan is a caring son and brother —that he's responsible, that he is devoted to them.


LaBar told CNN:
“I spoke to them (Kohberger family) for approximately 15 to 20 minutes. They are very shocked because they believe the accusations are out of character for Bryan.
 

Monroe County public defender Jason LaBar represented Kohberger before he was extradited to Idaho.

Jason LaBar:
The family would want the general public to know that Bryan is a caring son and brother —that he's responsible, that he is devoted to them.


LaBar told CNN:
“I spoke to them (Kohberger family) for approximately 15 to 20 minutes. They are very shocked because they believe the accusations are out of character for Bryan.
Understandable reaction. He probably hadn't massacred four people before.

I think it was a genuine shock. The only place where it made perfect sense it where it had been percolating IMO for some time -- in the mind of a killer.

JMO
 
Understandable reaction. He probably hadn't massacred four people before.

I think it was a genuine shock. The only place where it made perfect sense it where it had been percolating IMO for some time -- in the mind of a killer.

JMO
I'm going to wrap my totally related but roundabout way to connect to what you just said. So I'll wrap it in Spoiler tags to spare anyone else the vertical space.
MODS this is related as it shows that in my experience with the parents that i know the tendency is to dismiss signs or things that they already know to be true in the immediate aftermath of a tragic event IMO

I grew up in a pretty rough part of a major city. My parents kept me mostly sheltered from whatever was happening on 'the streets'. I went to a private school and on the afternoons that my parents weren't home I was inundated with after school activity options.

Even though I wasn't 'outside' I knew what was happening 'outside'. I distinctly remember an incident where a member of a gang stabbed a member of another gang . Just one day later the stabbing victim walked out of the hospital and gunned down the person who stabbed him and went on the run.

They were first cousins.

I distinctly remember the mourning moms, who were sisters, together, on the local news in front of one of their homes. The sister mourning her lost son insisted that he would never hurt a soul and was an amazing church going kid and that her nephew would never have pulled the trigger. The other sister, supported the characterization of her deceased nephew and insisted that her son was a college kid who was incapable of murdering anyone, let alone his own first cousin. Even though those Mom's knew of their sons reputations and frequently startegized on tactics to keep their sons off the streets. Even regularly attended counseling with the local catholic church. At that moment none of it mattered.

This incident, more than 30 years ago now, has repercussions to this day. As at that time, both of those cousins were well known (by peers, by law enforcement, by other parents) leaders of their respective gangs. Gangs that are now rivals and continue to senselessly kill each other.

MOO
No matter what the situation is parents are always going to immediately defend their kids.

As someone who's been to a correctional facility more than a dozen times to visit a specific family member and a good friend....it's worth noting that the room is mostly filled with parents who are there to support and share their love no matter what.

Why are BKs parents quiet right now? As much as I'd like to believe that it's because they think its guilty....I think it's mostly out of respect for the victims families.

MOO
 
They do not seem to be defending him and have not visited. I believe we saw somewhere on the interweb that the family was fixing up the house (might have needed renovations to sell and gain back their privacy).

It is my belief that they spent decades trying to help BK. It is quite possible that as much as they want him to be innocent, they have doubts based on patterns of behavior.

When you raise a child it is a bond for life, but it doesn't have to wreck your own. At some point you have to step out of the way and let them stand on their own. JMOO
 
IANAL but I do think she might take the pretrial issues at least one step higher. I'm basing that on the fact that she's made new law before, plus the content of their motions thus far seem based on pretty thin broth. I'm not even sure why they made some of them, they seem so far-fetched. I have been wondering at what point unfairly accusing someone of prosecutorial misconduct gets you in trouble. But I also think this is the sort of case that, if you can win, makes people say your name in reverential tones. The problem for his legal team is that he seems pretty darned guilty. I just hope, when all is said and done, with our mouths hanging open in shock like we were with the Casey Anthony verdict.
I truly don't believe that will the case here. AT & Company have to raise a vigorous defense for BK. She has been doing that steadily from the day she appointed. This is a death penalty case, it has to hold up under automatic appeal. She's seen the State's evidence, she probably knows or thinks in her mind that he is not innocent, but it is still her job and BK's right for her to defend him to the best of her ability. Plus, she's a very strong, strategic lawyer IMO.

I think the State has a slam dunk case (I rarely, if ever, use that verbiage) against BK. I believe 110% he is going to be found guilty and definitely receive the DP or LWOP. Maybe they have the purchase of a Kabar and Sheath, incriminating info recovered from his computers, etc. that we don't have a clue of yet. Whatever the totality is, BK is not going to be a free man ever again IMO. For that I'm grateful, because I believe he would have gone on to murder again in the future had he not be arrested here.

JMO
 
BK's parents made a brief statement shortly after his arrest saying they believed their son was innocent, but since then it's been radio silence. I don't believe they are gagged, although, if the defense plans to call on them as character witnesses, the gag order may also apply to them.
I understand this crime has affected their family in unfair ways and they're probably hoping to stay under the radar, but I wish we could see them be interviewed respectfully by a proper journalist. I'm not counting on it though.
As Christmas draws near I am obviously thinking first and foremost of the victims' families, who are going to have to endure a second Christmas without their beloved children, but I can't help but also think of the Kohbergers and their sad situation. Do they still believe in his innocence? If not, what a strange feeling it must be.
I don't believe the Kohberger's have one thing to gain by speaking to anyone regarding their son and this case regardless of who does the interview (proper journalists are almost an oxymoron these days).

I admire them for remaining silent when their hearts are surely broken. Maybe deep down they might realize it is a possibility that BK could be guilty, although I'm sure they would never admit it out loud. Too hard and sad. :(

They lived with him 27 years, they know him better than anyone. They are victims of BK's action as well IMO.

JMO
 
SA includes rape FWIW.

He was in and out in 10 minutes, not really enough time to SA and murder IMO. Idk if he thought he had more time had other things in mind or if he did exactly what he set out to do. I personally don't think he intended to SA anyone that night.
Agreed, but maybe his target victim was either Maddie or Kaylee and them being together in one room and a bed thwarted that plan? IDK, I think it's a 50/50 possibility either rage killing or a potential SA.

JMO
 
No one is saying he raped anyone, that I gave seen.

I and another poster were discussing possible thoughts in BK's head. Pure speculation. We're all pretty familiar with this case and it's clear there was no rape. Indeed, it seems as if early LE statements implied there was no sexual crime at all (there are other sexual crimes besides rape which leave evidence).

I'm not sure how you would know whether he was thinking only about murder or possibly thinking about sex crimes and murder. Both types of criminals exist, which was my point. This is a very unusual crime. It is virtually the only crime of its type in the Mass Murder Database (most are either ideologically driven OR the people are known to each other - usually family related, but sometimes neighbors or colleagues). There are vanishingly few stranger mass murders in which there's also a home invasion (a house not lived in or previously visited by the perp). We have also speculated here about whether he had been in the house before (if I had to bet, I'd bet that he had been in the house).

We are not talking about an actual rape. We are talking about his mindset, possibly his worldview, his mentality, his motivations. I personally agree with you - that the motivation was either only or primarily rape. But I never narrow down to one hypothesis until there's more evidence. We simply do not know what was in his mind. I have personally interviewed criminals who had the intention of raping, found that to be impossible/not what was going to happen and switched to phase 2 (which was murder, all along). Many rapists DO murder their victims, usually because they think this removes a witness.

I can envision, as I said, a mindset in which a potential murderer also considers rape and is mentally aroused by the juxtaposition (especially as he's driving around, getting ready). None of us knows.

We are just speculating. Some people feel strongly that knife attacks are closely related to sexual attacks. SG's description of KG's wounds makes me think there's a possibility that there was a sexual element to the crime. In BK's mind.

I think discussing possible motivations is crucial in all crime cases, it's the main reason I study crime. It's the main reason many of us are here. I do not at all think the rape scenario is as ridiculous as all the other things you mention.

I could actually reshape the "rape" hypothesis into more words and point to some research about what goes on in the minds of rapists, but I've probably said enough. There are different academic theories on all of this, of course, but there is literature to support the fact that knife attacks, by a man, on a woman, may have a sexual element.

Let me ask you a question, though. Do you think he would have entered a house that had 4 men living in it, and killed a visitor who was a woman, while leaving 2 men alive? I believe he was targeting the house because he knew young women dwelt in it.

If he had killed 4 elderly people, yes, I'd be pondering whether he had something against the elderly and would regard it as a crime against the elderly. That's not what he did. He killed 3 women, all of whom had an outgoing, active, beautiful social media presence, with lots of male admirers (judging by the pre-murder instagram interactions and other clues from the internet).

This was a crime against women, IMO. It's just an opinion. We may never know. I doubt he'll take the stand. I doubt he'll write a book. I doubt he'll be interviewed.

All IMO.

I totally respect your input here and learn so much, thank you.

However, with regard to BK (if guilty) writing or being interviewed... in the long term, I wonder if he's more likely to be one of the people who will enjoy interfacing with interviewers and forensic analysts even if only for the sake of game playing?

IMO we can surmise that BK had a difficult youth plagued with being different, being alone, and probably unhappily so. I think there's enough evidence to suggest this due to his being an overweight child, addiction history, account of ex neighbour who said he wanted to avoid getting in conversation with BK, issues at his university etc, that he was 'troubled', unhappy, friendless, and probably trying to deal with all this in a very private way and it wasn't working.

If so, his case resonates with two killers who did 'tell all' = Elliot Rodger and Jeffrey Dahmer, as well as Dennis Nilsen (UK) who was allegedly very helpful to detectives and spoke as to his motivations. I wonder if in this long term, once he's firmly convicted and beyond the appeals processes, BK will want to express his list of perceived grievances and injustices perpetrated against him by society? Also speaking gives him agency and control as well as attention. From his POV, I mean to say. JMO MOO
 
I totally respect your input here and learn so much, thank you.

However, with regard to BK (if guilty) writing or being interviewed... in the long term, I wonder if he's more likely to be one of the people who will enjoy interfacing with interviewers and forensic analysts even if only for the sake of game playing?

IMO we can surmise that BK had a difficult youth plagued with being different, being alone, and probably unhappily so. I think there's enough evidence to suggest this due to his being an overweight child, addiction history, account of ex neighbour who said he wanted to avoid getting in conversation with BK, issues at his university etc, that he was 'troubled', unhappy, friendless, and probably trying to deal with all this in a very private way and it wasn't working.

If so, his case resonates with two killers who did 'tell all' = Elliot Rodger and Jeffrey Dahmer, as well as Dennis Nilsen (UK) who was allegedly very helpful to detectives and spoke as to his motivations. I wonder if in this long term, once he's firmly convicted and beyond the appeals processes, BK will want to express his list of perceived grievances and injustices perpetrated against him by society? Also speaking gives him agency and control as well as attention. From his POV, I mean to say. JMO MOO
Very interesting perspective. Ed Kemper (the Co-Ed Killer) also did the same thing. Confessed and basically wouldn't stop talking about his crimes and how he 'got to that point'. He had raging mother issues IIRC.

MOO
 
I totally respect your input here and learn so much, thank you.

However, with regard to BK (if guilty) writing or being interviewed... in the long term, I wonder if he's more likely to be one of the people who will enjoy interfacing with interviewers and forensic analysts even if only for the sake of game playing?

IMO we can surmise that BK had a difficult youth plagued with being different, being alone, and probably unhappily so. I think there's enough evidence to suggest this due to his being an overweight child, addiction history, account of ex neighbour who said he wanted to avoid getting in conversation with BK, issues at his university etc, that he was 'troubled', unhappy, friendless, and probably trying to deal with all this in a very private way and it wasn't working.

If so, his case resonates with two killers who did 'tell all' = Elliot Rodger and Jeffrey Dahmer, as well as Dennis Nilsen (UK) who was allegedly very helpful to detectives and spoke as to his motivations. I wonder if in this long term, once he's firmly convicted and beyond the appeals processes, BK will want to express his list of perceived grievances and injustices perpetrated against him by society? Also speaking gives him agency and control as well as attention. From his POV, I mean to say. JMO MOO

And I totally respect your opinion! I've actually gone back and forth on this one. There's something about his various court appearances and the way his facial settings have changed that make me think he's the type that can keep very quiet, and that's a main tool of his. And I did say "facial settings," because I think his TapATalk and other information make it clear that he has had to practice "normal" (normative?) behavior.

OTOH, when all is said and done (let's say he's on Death Row), then...maybe. I think he convinced Prof B at DeSales of his brilliance by never meeting her and only interacting in text. He was going to do "virtual interviews" on reddit for his master's (?! many questions there - I know my own grad advisors would never have allowed that, many reasons - but then, there was a whole university wide committee that had to approve every scrap of human subjects research for any student research). He certainly has been troubled, perhaps unhappy (he says in the TapATalk posts that he feels blank; that reality seems unreal to him, as if he's in a movie and while he understands he physically hurt his dad, he kinda sorta doesn't care - and he KNOWS that's unusual) .

Elliot Rodger didn't exactly tell all, IMO. He wrote an autobiography justifying what he was about to do - but never faced a court. Or, apparently, an inpatient unit or jail. I guess I could see BK doing something similar (a manifesto kind of thing). Jesperson is another one that was helpful to add to your list. He definitely "told all" to the guy who wrote/ghost wrote his biography - in the traditional fashion, where the author pushes him to tell the details we all want to hear - it's not a monologue like Elliot's. I don't want a monologue from Kohberger, either. I feel it's easy to predict what he is going to say in such a document. It will be very similar to Elliot's.

I don't care about his personal grievances, either. Instead, what I want is for him to sit down with someone (as Kemper and many others did with Dr. Donald Lunde - a mentor of mine and the reason I went into similar research). I could never come to close to Lunde in terms of technique (he was a legal psychiatrist and beyond brilliant). But I have interviewed quite a few criminals and I'm a good listener. I would never agree to just one long blurt-out of grievances, would never publish it. I want to know the psyche, the inner motivations that might help us understand how a person gets from a grievance collector - to a crime like this one. In every case (including Jesperson and Kemper and all the men I've interviewed), there *is* a psychosexual component (and family issues) that need to at least be aired out and not swept under the rug.

If he does do that thing where he's required to tell the court the answers to certain questions (I have a long list I think they'll want to ask him), then I'll consider that a full confession. But if he does the self-serving "I'm a grievance collector and all of you should see that my life made me do it!" that's not, to me, a confession or a tell all. Opposite. I want to know how many houses he thought about entering and how many he had actually entered. Truthfully. I want to know where he bought his knife/knives and what his intentions were when he bought them. I want to know whether he trained with those knives - and where he did that. And many more. These are the things that a jury wants to know - NOT that he had a Big Mad and "lost it" one night. Nope. Not a confession.

The older I get, the more persnickety I get. I've also seen that in jurors (esp older ones) and Judges. If BK can be "helpful" to detectives and tell all truthfully, then I will be pleased (as long as his sentence reflects his crime).

(I've been asked recently to think about and maybe write about how long I think it'll be until trial - and frankly, at the pace this is going, I'm thinking it will be 2-3 years more - and maybe longer if there are pre-trial appeals; rare as those are, that could happen here; I have opinions and theories about why that benefits the Defense - which is why I think it will happen; the parents meanwhile get older, live with not knowing - in this case knowing *almost* nothing about the circumstances and that irritates the heck out of me).

You and I may be dancing around on the head of a pin, of course - but I truly appreciate the dialogue.

IMO.
 
I actually think he wanted to gravitate to serial killer. The kind of person he was fascinated with.

I think he wanted to get started with a single murder that could not be solved.

And then from there on over the next few years, murder another or two with the same signature (leaving a knife sheath each time with no DNA).

That is totally my own opinion. I think he was obsessed with serial killers and wanted to be one.
I wonder if his plan was to sneak in and kill one person and leave the rest alive. That would make the news and would be a whodunnit. The feat it would instill in a college town with so many students living together would be very high. Instead, it went wrong and he killed 4 instead of one.
 
Agreed, but maybe his target victim was either Maddie or Kaylee and them being together in one room and a bed thwarted that plan? IDK, I think it's a 50/50 possibility either rage killing or a potential SA.

JMO
If BK were targeting KG then he had to have stalked her to know she was there, esp since she had a new vehicle. Just mentioning this FWIW bc this line leads to multiple questions about stalking etc.

Do you mean BK went upstairs to SA one of them and there was no intent to kill originally?

It's just hard to imagine BK went in with the intent to SA one housemate and ended up killing 4 people unplanned. It would be no easy feat and there were hardly any traces that we know of, for someone who wasn't planning to kill anyone. I'd think someone who got tripped up in the act would have left some more proof, would have slipped or something. Maybe leaving the sheath is the proof that he got tripped up and distracted?

MOO.
 
I think he convinced Prof B at DeSales of his brilliance by never meeting her and only interacting in text. He was going to do "virtual interviews" on reddit for his master's (?! many questions there - I know my own grad advisors would never have allowed that, many reasons - but then, there was a whole university wide committee that had to approve every scrap of human subjects research for any student research).
RSBM
I agree with everything else you said in this post (and fascinating insight btw!) , but on this particular point I believe context and timing is important.
BK received his BA in 2020. His application, and then his entire Masters, would have been carried out during peak covid years. During this period, online research, virtual interviews and text conversation would have been preferred over actual fieldwork and in-person meetings. Otherwise, IMO, BK would have loved to get to meet killers and ask his interview questions in person.
 
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I wonder if his plan was to sneak in and kill one person and leave the rest alive. That would make the news and would be a whodunnit. The feat it would instill in a college town with so many students living together would be very high. Instead, it went wrong and he killed 4 instead of one.
I've thought that many times. I've wondered if he was targeting MM, but didn't know KG was there, or at least, didn't expect to find her in the same bed. That threw him off and things went sideways from there. JMO
 
If BK were targeting KG then he had to have stalked her to know she was there, esp since she had a new vehicle. Just mentioning this FWIW bc this line leads to multiple questions about stalking etc.

Do you mean BK went upstairs to SA one of them and there was no intent to kill originally?

It's just hard to imagine BK went in with the intent to SA one housemate and ended up killing 4 people unplanned. It would be no easy feat and there were hardly any traces that we know of, for someone who wasn't planning to kill anyone. I'd think someone who got tripped up in the act would have left some more proof, would have slipped or something. Maybe leaving the sheath is the proof that he got tripped up and distracted?

MOO.
Good points, actually, I meant he always planned to kill that night, hence the Kabar knife (that's definitely a killing knife IMO). He could have been stalking Kaylee under some subterfuge only discovered by LE after the D kept making the claim BK had no connection to any of the victims. She was only there that night to show her mates the new vehicle.

Maybe he saw that on some posts Kaylee made before returning that weekend? IDK IMO he would have SA assaulted her and murdered her for sure. If she was in her room alone, he might have thought he could get in/out without disturbing the others, especially with a knife wound to the upper body (heart, throat, lungs).

If it was a rage killing against a group of people, which I am more inclined to believe, pretty, popular college coeds, that have rejected him (in his mind his whole life) than it makes complete sense that they were all killed. Even Ethan, the lucky guy who was there in the company of these three beautiful girls would have caused him great rage IMO.

I don't think he saw DM due to his poor night vision from VSS, or BK perhaps thinking the dog barking and crying or outside noise was going to alert someone to call LE. He had to have known there was surveillance in that area and he needed to get the heck out of Dodge.

JMO
 
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I've thought that many times. I've wondered if he was targeting MM, but didn't know KG was there, or at least, didn't expect to find her in the same bed. That threw him off and things went sideways from there. JMO
That's what I think.
He went to hot prowl and rape MM at knife point, startled by KG being there he killed instead. He found he was good at killing went downstairs and killed some more and left.
 
He certainly has been troubled, perhaps unhappy (he says in the TapATalk posts that he feels blank; that reality seems unreal to him, as if he's in a movie and while he understands he physically hurt his dad, he kinda sorta doesn't care - and he KNOWS that's unusual) .
RSBM
RBBM
I have been following this case, but not all the time. I don't disbelieve you but I have no recollection of the bit I bolded. Could you give a link to it please or just write briefly what happened? Thanks in advance.
 
RSBM
RBBM
I have been following this case, but not all the time. I don't disbelieve you but I have no recollection of the bit I bolded. Could you give a link to it please or just write briefly what happened? Thanks in advance.

I don't recall him talking about physically hurting him--he mentioned hurting him emotionally.
" I think about my father, what a good man he is, how I treat him like dirt because I have this condition, and I can't take it. "

I read through all the Tapatalk posts when they first came to life. This is the only mention I recall, and I don't have time right now to reread all 118+ posts and replies, but here is a link to them:

 
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