4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #91

[10ofRods]

Very interesting perspective. Ed Kemper (the Co-Ed Killer) also did the same thing. Confessed and basically wouldn't stop talking about his crimes and how he 'got to that point'. He had raging mother issues IIRC.

MOO

I think Kemper contributed a lot to our current understanding of his type of crime. Jesperson, too. Jesperson writes letters to accused killers, urging them to come clean and plead guilty. And I read somewhere that he has convinced a few. I believe that both he and his daughter believe that if he were ever released, he would kill again.

He *really* confessed - the long string of crimes/sadistic acts starting in childhood are all laid out by him in the book (it's awful to read).

Kemper wouldn't stop talking, for sure. The book "Murder and Madness" by Donald Lunde uses a lot of Kemper's sessions with Lunde (a psychiatrist and sometime law professor). It's a great book. After reading about Kemper and Jesperson, I decided to forego all books on BTK (and have repressed the names of a few other serial killers).

Kemper was another of those who tried ingratiated himself with law enforcement. He hung out with them, knew the bar in Santa Cruz where local LE hung out very well, and went there often. He was known to them and had jovial relationships with police.

 

[gliving]

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/122123-Motion-for-Scheduling-Order.pdf

 

[gliving]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1737970861926187156

 

[seasideForest]

I don't recall him talking about physically hurting him--he mentioned hurting him emotionally.
" I think about my father, what a good man he is, how I treat him like dirt because I have this condition, and I can't take it. "

...
I read through all the Tapatalk posts when they first came to life. This is the only mention I recall, and I don't have time right now to reread all 118+ posts and replies, but here is a link to them:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/thosewithvisualsnow/search.php?author_id=6462313&sr=posts

RSBM
Thank you for the link, gremlin. I wouldn't expect you to read all posts and replies. If anybody then 10ofRods since she mentioned BK physically hurting this father. But at least I can place the Tapatalks now and know that 'physically hurting' if it did indeed occur was not something recent as in on BK's trip back to his parents' home.
MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

That's what I think.
He went to hot prowl and rape MM at knife point, startled by KG being there he killed instead. He found he was good at killing went downstairs and killed some more and left.

As has been stated above by a few posters, IMO there's no way he was intending to rape MM as it would completely destroy his efforts at forensic biological safety even if he took preventative measures. I do think she was his primary / sole target, JMO though.

Perhaps he intended to silence her somehow and remove her from the home at knife-point which would be quite an even more elaborate plan of abduction and very high risk but then he could do whatever in a secret location? Bit far fetched but who knows.

 

[Cool Cats]

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/122123-Motion-for-Scheduling-Order.pdf

View attachment 469505

View attachment 469506

Great!

There are now specific logistic reasons to have the trial this summer when Moscow High School and the area Universities are not in session.

Logistic concerns if schools are in session during trial:

1.) Moscow HS is directly adjacent to the courthouse premises.
2.) Increase in media vehicles.
3.) Increase in other vehicles related to this case.
4.) Strain on available parking.
5.) Extra vehicles causing safety issues, strain on pedestrians, strain on students.
6.) Strain on lodging accommodations.
7.) Summer vacation is the longest school break and the trial is scheduled for at least 1 1/2 months or more.
8.) I personally can't picture the prosecutors and the judge waiting for the summer vacation of 2025 to roll around.

From above linked Prosecution Motion.

 

[Boxer]

As has been stated above by a few posters, IMO there's no way he was intending to rape MM as it would completely destroy his efforts at forensic biological safety even if he took preventative measures. I do think she was his primary / sole target, JMO though.

Perhaps he intended to silence her somehow and remove her from the home at knife-point which would be quite an even more elaborate plan of abduction and very high risk but then he could do whatever in a secret location? Bit far fetched but who knows.

MOO "Rape" isn't one thing. I probably should say sexually and physically violate, dominate or humiliate.
But thinking he had intent murder one young woman, four young people, or everyone in the house is just as valid.

 

[gliving]

 

[gliving]

Great!

There are now specific logistic reasons to have the trial this summer when Moscow High School and the area Universities are not in session.

Logistic concerns if schools are in session during trial:

1.) Moscow HS is directly adjacent to the courthouse premises.
2.) Increase in media vehicles.
3.) Increase in other vehicles related to this case.
4.) Strain on available parking.
5.) Extra vehicles causing safety issues, strain on pedestrians, strain on students.
6.) Strain on lodging accommodations.
7.) Summer vacation is the longest school break and the trial is scheduled for at least 1 1/2 months or more.
8.) I personally can't picture the prosecutors and the judge waiting for the summer vacation of 2025 to roll around.

From above linked Prosecution Motion.

Thanks @Cool Cats. So, no change of venue...

 

[whiterhino]

Good points, actually, I meant he always planned to kill that night, hence the Kabar knife (that's definitely a killing knife IMO). He could have been stalking Kaylee under some subterfuge only discovered by LE after the D kept making the claim BK had no connection to any of the victims. She was only there that night to show her mates the new vehicle.

Maybe he saw that on some posts Kaylee made before returning that weekend? IDK IMO he would have SA assaulted her and murdered her for sure. If she was in her room alone, he might have thought he could get in/out without disturbing the others, especially with a knife wound to the upper body (heart, throat, lungs).

If it was a rage killing against a group of people, which I am more inclined to believe, pretty, popular college coeds, that have rejected him (in his mind his whole life) than it makes complete sense that they were all killed. Even Ethan, the lucky guy who was there in the company of these three beautiful girls would have caused him great rage IMO.

I don't think he saw DM due to his poor night vision from VSS, or BK perhaps thinking the dog barking and crying or outside noise was going to alert someone to call LE. He had to have known there was surveillance in that area and he needed to get the heck out of Dodge.

JMO

For me, I have a hard time reconciling the fact that the victims weren't close to BK yet the murders seem so personal, at least KG and MM IMO.

I'm thinking one or both KG and MM were the main focus of BKs attack. What I get stuck on is why/what led BK to X and E but not DM or BF? DM said she heard someone say "It's OK I'm going to help you" so perhaps X or E saw BK? Yet BK walked right by DM

If he were intent on killing a house of popular girls, he left two out. If he were stalking any of them, I'd think he would know more about their routines (E staying overnight, KGs car etc).

I'd believe that maybe BK thought he'd have upstairs to himself except there were a number of vehicles parked out front. BK drove past them about 4 or 5 times. He had to have noticed. Therefore, despite everything BK went inside and killed. I think it was for the thrill of it JMO.

 

[Boxer]

For me, I have a hard time reconciling the fact that the victims weren't close to BK yet the murders seem so personal, at least KG and MM IMO.

I'm thinking one or both KG and MM were the main focus of BKs attack. What I get stuck on is why/what led BK to X and E but not DM or BF? DM said she heard someone say "It's OK I'm going to help you" so perhaps X or E saw BK? Yet BK walked right by DM

If he were intent on killing a house of popular girls, he left two out. If he were stalking any of them, I'd think he would know more about their routines (E staying overnight, KGs car etc).

I'd believe that maybe BK thought he'd have upstairs to himself except there were a number of vehicles parked out front. BK drove past them about 4 or 5 times. He had to have noticed. Therefore, despite everything BK went inside and killed. I think it was for the thrill of it JMO.

Good reasoning about the cars in front. Still MOO I think he regarded himself a master of hot prowl. If no evidence from an arrest its not going to be something that can be shown in court, it's just a hunch from his behaviors and drug addiction.
Stalkers form relationships in their minds with their victims.
Celebrities that get stalked can end up with those stalkers in their livingrooms calling them by their first names.

 

[10ofRods]

Great!

There are now specific logistic reasons to have the trial this summer when Moscow High School and the area Universities are not in session.

Logistic concerns if schools are in session during trial:

1.) Moscow HS is directly adjacent to the courthouse premises.
2.) Increase in media vehicles.
3.) Increase in other vehicles related to this case.
4.) Strain on available parking.
5.) Extra vehicles causing safety issues, strain on pedestrians, strain on students.
6.) Strain on lodging accommodations.
7.) Summer vacation is the longest school break and the trial is scheduled for at least 1 1/2 months or more.
8.) I personally can't picture the prosecutors and the judge waiting for the summer vacation of 2025 to roll around.

From above linked Prosecution Motion.

If Defense appeals are filed (or further pre-trial motions), they may not have a choice. I am doubting appeals will be filed to the currently denied motions, but I would be surprised to get all the way to a trial date/initial jury selection and then see a Change of Venue motion. And then, perhaps, a Change of Judge motion (I predict both will be denied - but could also be appealed, etc).

Or, evidentiary motions could hit fast and furious. Any of this could delay trial. If it's in Moscow's best interests to have it during summer, it could easily be Summer 2025 if the Defense chooses any of these (or other) tactics). Change of Venue is the one that's more likely (I think they'll be sorry if they try for another Judge, but who knows what other Hail Mary! strategies the Defense might try).

At least the State is pressing for trial, has a specific reasoning, and is very likely to get the trial date set for Summer 2024. I surely hope so. I hope the Judge rules quickly on any CoV motion that could pop up, and proceeds to trial in Summer 2024. I hope the Defense doesn't appeal and get a stay during appeal. But it is a DP case, so...every T must be crossed.

IMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Thanks @Cool Cats. So, no change of venue...

Yes, I think this does answer the question I posted about earlier - will there be a change of venue?

And apparently from the looks of this Motion, everyone is planning for a local trial.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

For me, I have a hard time reconciling the fact that the victims weren't close to BK yet the murders seem so personal, at least KG and MM IMO.

I'm thinking one or both KG and MM were the main focus of BKs attack. What I get stuck on is why/what led BK to X and E but not DM or BF? DM said she heard someone say "It's OK I'm going to help you" so perhaps X or E saw BK? Yet BK walked right by DM

If he were intent on killing a house of popular girls, he left two out. If he were stalking any of them, I'd think he would know more about their routines (E staying overnight, KGs car etc).

I'd believe that maybe BK thought he'd have upstairs to himself except there were a number of vehicles parked out front. BK drove past them about 4 or 5 times. He had to have noticed. Therefore, despite everything BK went inside and killed. I think it was for the thrill of it JMO.

I think KG's car was brand new, a little jeep IIRC that she had wanted to show off to her friends and pay one last visit. So if BK *thought* he knew everything about the household from his prowling, I suppose he may well have thought KG had permanently moved, there was no dog present, and the new car was not belonging to one of the household. That MM resided alone in the upper part of the house for the time being. In which case, he had a lot of his intel incorrect.

This is highly possible and makes more sense than imagining he'd walk into a house full of people and a dog and two women sharing the same bed. So for that reason only, I'm going with this idea because it's the simplest and least convoluted.

However, if the victims social media pages were set to public, or he was a 'friend' / 'follower' and they had advertised the fact they were together that weekend, then this is baffling.

 

[Megnut]

I think KG's car was brand new, a little jeep IIRC that she had wanted to show off to her friends and pay one last visit. So if BK *thought* he knew everything about the household from his prowling, I suppose he may well have thought KG had permanently moved, there was no dog present, and the new car was not belonging to one of the household. That MM resided alone in the upper part of the house for the time being. In which case, he had a lot of his intel incorrect.

This is highly possible and makes more sense than imagining he'd walk into a house full of people and a dog and two women sharing the same bed. So for that reason only, I'm going with this idea because it's the simplest and least convoluted.

However, if the victims social media pages were set to public, or he was a 'friend' / 'follower' and they had advertised the fact they were together that weekend, then this is baffling.

I imagine there was always an assortment of vehicles in the lot.

If he was confident in his stealth, he may have been entirely unfazed by the prospect of a houseful. 4am, his expectation, everyone asleep. No K, no dog, no door dash, no obstacles. Slink in, slink out, one trophy murder.

That simple, that evil.

JMO

 

[Chloegirl]

I had a thought. I sort of think the house is a bargaining chip. Yesterday the trial dates were requested as if we can't have that at any other time then summer. It definitely would be ideal. Working with that theory, they could agree to knock the house down after that. People (some) don't want the house knocked down and now they've heard it all over again. Are they looking to get their dates settled so that they can come back saying okay, okay we won't knock the house down? I'm not saying any of that emphatically but it does seem plausible. JMOO

 

[Cool Cats]

I had a thought. I sort of think the house is a bargaining chip. Let me explain. Yesterday the trial dates were requested as if we can't have that at any other time then summer. It definitely would be ideal. Working with that theory, they could agree to knock the house down after that. People don't want the house knocked down and now they've heard it all over again. Are they looking to get their dates settled so that they can come back heroically saying okay, okay we won't knock the house down? I'm not saying any of that emphatically but it does seem plausible. JMOO

The only people INVOLVED who do not want the house knocked down are Kaylee's parents and her dad said Maddy's parents I think.

The prosecution is fine with it being demolished, other authorities are fine, defense is fine with it, university is fine with it, Ethan's parents and siblings are fine with it, many students and neighbors in the area are tired of looking at it and being reminded. Also, too many people are traveling to the area to get photos of the house. A nuisance and an eyesore.

It is contaminated with chemicals and is missing some flooring and missing some walls. And everything relating to this crime has been removed including the night lights and beds.

Thompson said it is NOT APPROPRIATE FOR A JURY WALK THROUGH. And it is a HEALTH HAZARD.

2 Cents

Should a notorious crime scene be demolished before trial?

At the house where four University of Idaho students were killed last year, sheets of plywood cover the windows. A temporary fence surrounds the yard. Security guards, posted in a blue trailer, keep watch 24 hours a day.

www.spokesman.com

 

[Chloegirl]

The only people who do not want the house knocked down are Kaylee's parents and her dad said Maddy's parents I think.

The prosecution is fine with it being demolished, other authorities are fine, defense is fine with it, university is fine with it.

It is contaminated with chemicals and is missing flooring and walls and everything relating to this crime has been removed including the night lights and beds.

Thompson said it is not appropriate for a jury walk through. I linked that article where he talked about this.

2 Cents

Disagree and I understand what you're saying. Did you know there is a change.org petition against demolition? I would like it gone, but lots of legal experts and others (including possible protesters) have other opinions. Some of the reports that I have seen say many do not want this now. If there's a chance it will be needed, they're suggesting keep it. There's a lot of conflict over the house.

I would hate to see a protest or a family have to legally fight it. I see merit in both views. Typically, it is not done ahead of trial so if a lot of people are against it (possibly not in Moscow) I wonder if they will back off if they get their dates set in six months. JMOO

 

[Cool Cats]

Disagree and I understand what you're saying. Did you know there is a change.org petition against demolition? I would like it gone, but lots of legal experts and others (including possible protesters) have other opinions. Some of the reports that I have seen say many do not want this now. If there's a chance it will be needed, they're suggesting keep it. There's a lot of conflict over the house.

I would hate to see a protest or a family have to legally fight it. I see merit in both views. Typically, it is not done ahead of trial so if a lot of people are against it (possibly not in Moscow) I wonder if they will back off if they get their dates set in six months. JMOO

The general public always complains. Means absolutely zero.

They have petitions for everything.

The prosecution is fine with it being demolished, other authorities are fine, defense is fine with it, university is fine with it, Ethan's parents and siblings are fine with it, many students and neighbors in the area are tired of looking at it and being reminded. Also, too many people are traveling to the area to get photos of the house. A nuisance and an eyesore.

It is contaminated with chemicals and is missing some flooring and missing some walls. And everything relating to this crime has been removed including the night lights and beds.

Thompson said it is NOT APPROPRIATE FOR A JURY WALK THROUGH. And it is a HEALTH HAZARD.

2 Cents

Should a notorious crime scene be demolished before trial?

At the house where four University of Idaho students were killed last year, sheets of plywood cover the windows. A temporary fence surrounds the yard. Security guards, posted in a blue trailer, keep watch 24 hours a day.

www.spokesman.com

 

[Chloegirl]

General public only. So what? I just gave you an entire list of reasons the prosecution and defense are fine with it being torn down.

The general public always complains. Means absolutely zero.

My gosh they have petitions for everything.

The prosecution is fine with it being demolished, other authorities are fine, defense is fine with it, university is fine with it, Ethan's parents and siblings are fine with it, many students and neighbors in the area are tired of looking at it and being reminded. Also, too many people are traveling to the area to get photos of the house. A nuisance and an eyesore.

It is contaminated with chemicals and is missing some flooring and missing some walls. And everything relating to this crime has been removed including the night lights and beds.

Thompson said it is NOT APPROPRIATE FOR A JURY WALK THROUGH. And it is a HEALTH HAZARD.

2 Cents

I'm not taking a stance here so there isn't an argument precisely. But there is more than one view. It is being debated. I have seen less reporting from a pro-demo stance but there is some and the best journalism covers both. JMOO

Kohberger case prosecution will regret Idaho house demolition: Expert

Attorney Mark Geragos says the prosecution will regret its decision to oppose the demolition of the house where four Idaho students were killed.

www.newsnationnow.com

Idaho murder house demolition could help Bryan Kohberger

The house where four students were murdered will be demolished over winter break, prompting some to say that it could benefit the man charged with the killings.

www.newsweek.com

Family of Idaho murder victim expresses frustration with decision to tear down home

As the suspect's defense team gains access to the home, the family of Kaylee Goncalves says they feel their opinion on what to do with the home is not a priority.

www.krem.com

Should a Notorious Crime Scene Be Demolished Before Trial? (Published 2023)

Officials want to tear down the house where four Idaho college students were murdered last year, setting off a debate over preserving the scenes of mass violence.

www.nytimes.com

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