4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #94

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Anyone dumb enough to kill 4 innocent people that he didn’t know in cold blood…is also a big enough dummy to make those mistakes and more.

IMO their decision making and judgement and fear of getting caught is so severely compromised (IMO) who’s to say that they wouldn’t just turn off their phone and drive their own car? Not I.

I could never put myself in the shoes of a killer in any meaningful way. Our brains are wired 100% differently. If I can’t explain their motivations and/or empathize then judging what they would do in any given situation is a lost cause. JMO

And that’s not even getting into the “arrogant” personality trait that a lot of reporting has labeled him with.

MOO

What I do not get is the concept of:

"There is no motive."

So according to this logic, just because we do not know BK's personal motives it means there is no motive.

Of course BK was motivated in some way. Why is any mass killer motivated? Even killers do not always totally understand their own motives.

2 Cents
 
IMO As explosive as those statements sound there’s gray area in each and every one of them. This is her job. She’s a defense attorney.

This was the same play with the DNA genealogy information that many claimed was going to be a bombshell last summer. There were folks discussing full dismissal based on AT’s words alone. Yet, here we are. A year later. BK still behind bars. And now the next bombshell is the cell evidence apparently. JMO

If she had cold hard facts we would likely be seeing motions to dismiss right now (MOO)

The fact that we are not tells me that this is just a different interpretation of the same evidence.

MOO
Those are SR's statements under oath. AT did not make these statements and it appeared during the hearing that a few surprised her. JMO

The D is still working on the genealogy. Having just had another motion to allow their investigators to view the records, which was granted by JJJ. The D had to show a good reason for the Judge to grant them access IMO, he had previously denied it.

The State and D stated last hearing that the FBI was reviewing the Cast work for accuracy and in light of the provided alibi.
IMO SR and the FBI respect each other.
During the hearing, SR said he knew the agents that worked on this and they are competent. To me he seemed to be leaning toward a machine error, although he gave a few reasons that could be responsible for the problems he was seeing.

154:38
Scenarios for problems

JMO
 
I'm not surprised that the killer accidentally left the knife sheath at the murder scene.

He had never been in a stressful situation like this in his entire life and the adrenaline rush eventually caused a flight reaction which led to the sheath being left behind.

When you’re scared or stressed suddenly, adrenaline is quickly sent into your body. This is commonly known as an adrenaline rush because it happens so fast. You’ve probably heard of “fight or flight.” Adrenaline is what gets your body ready to fight or flee danger.
 
Not to mention apparently there wasn't enough left to have it retested lol


Let's be honest if it weren't for touch DNA there is absolutely not one piece of evidence that links BK to this crime. There also is not one piece of evidence that he knew the four victims and absolutely no motive whatsoever. If he indeed was involved he didn't do it by himself in my opinion.

He had his motive or he wouldn't have done it.

There is a great deal of circumstantial evidence and maybe direct evidence will be presented at trial.

Deputy prosecutor Ashley Jennings listed 25 times they have handed over documents to Kohberger's legal team between January 23, 2023, and May 28, 2024.

1.) 15,691 pages of discovery
2.) Enough discovery to fill 39 legal binders
3.) 13,000 photographs
4.) 911 "dumps" of audio-visuals
5.) 50 terabytes of 285 police interviews
6.) 417 files of phone call records
7.) 8,000 video clips from CCTV cameras in 10 homes
8.) multiple terabytes from 11 computers
9.) 17 phones examined
10.) information from "multiple" social media accounts

MSN
 
In the Pagniano case, Sy Ray was able to look at the days prior to the murder and pinpoint exactly when Pagniano dug the clandestine grave for his wife. Using his methodology with the timing report, Sy Ray has been able to help police pinpoint the location of bodies of missing persons and where the weapon was discarded and much more. Sy Ray will be able to tell us if BK was ever near 1122 King Rd prior to the murders or on the night of the murders.

Good. Then he can pinpoint where BK discarded his weapon.
 

hope he get all the data
Who gave Sy Ray the data/evidence that he analyzed? Isn't that the job of the defense since he is their expert witness?

He added that it's unclear why certain data is unavailable: "Is this human error? Is it accidental? Is it intentional?"

 
Anyone dumb enough to kill 4 innocent people that he didn’t know in cold blood…is also a big enough dummy to make those mistakes and more.

IMO their decision making and judgement and fear of getting caught is so severely compromised (IMO) who’s to say that they wouldn’t just turn off their phone and drive their own car? Not I.

I could never put myself in the shoes of a killer in any meaningful way. Our brains are wired 100% differently. If I can’t explain their motivations and/or empathize then judging what they would do in any given situation is a lost cause. JMO

And that’s not even getting into the “arrogant” personality trait that a lot of reporting has labeled him with.

MOO

I just want to add that after 40 years of interviewing criminals (in jails, prisons and state hospitals for the mentally insane) that we can never underestimate the extreme deviance of some people's minds.

There are often fixed delusions. Personality disorders. Memory problems that either mimic dementia or are disassociative (BK mentions two disassociative symptoms in his TapATalk posts).

Fear of getting caught is most prominent within certain personality disorders. The number of unfathomable decisions made by this group of people has always floored me, intrigued me. Serial rapists who, remanded to a state hospital for the criminally insane, still think that some or most of what they did was "normal." And indeed, in my years of research since then, it's true that many non-criminal men feel entitled to ignore "no" from a woman.

Did BK fear getting caught? I'm on the fence. He has had a certain kind of self-loathing since his teens. He might not think he's fit for this world. He may have wanted to accomplish a certain experience after moving to Pullman, and it evolved into this. IMO, rage was involved.

But controlled and depersonalized rage. And possibly a desire to die/be contained; to kill/to avenge life's pointlessness.

IMO.
 
Personally, I would want the forensic report on the sharp force injuries to pull the sheath and the knife together. If that wasn't available (which it will be), I probably wouldn't be too doubtful about the sheath belonging to the killer - given that the sheath housed a weapon and was found underneath a dead person.

It's clearly BK's sheath, though, from my POV.

Those autopsy reports are going to be brutal. I predict that there are several strands of evidence that either exactly identify the knife (I've written about this before, but forensic MRI and forensic spectometer analysis could reveal the actual brand Ka-Bar, since it has a proprietary coating on the blade and such blades have been identified in this fashion before). But even if not, the depth of the wounds and the microscopic analysis of any marks on bones would be enough.

I do think that BK chose a manner of killing designed NOT to hit bone - but was he successful? He expected all his victims to be sleeping and not moving. Xana was moving around. I believe BK is immune to and incapable of anything like "panic" (Based on his tap=a=talk posts and general research on VS), but I do think his plan went awry when he realized Xana was still up and about. His mind may have gone blank. He writes that he suffers from derealization AND depersonalization. That explains a lot in this discussion about "how smart he was." He's (according to his own posts) neuro-atypical. There are are anomalies in his perceptual apparatus (as I believe there were in the professor I was describing in a previous post).

I do not believe he left the sheath intentionally. Kaylee was clearly still awake, the situation did not unfold as he expected/planned. I believe he was wearing something like a black coverall with those big pockets and had the sheathed knife in that pocket (he probably, while kneeling on the bed to kill Maddie, thought he slid the sheath back into that pocket, but in the haste of the moment, managed to drop it, may not have realized it). If the theory that he was after just one woman is true, then the presence of another woman (who appears to have awakened and heard him) was startling.

He wanted to walk as quietly as possible (so, no running). He had timed it in his mind, perhaps not planning to kill four people (but willing to).

He's so meticulous about packaging his trash, cleaning his apartment and car, etc., I can't believe he would intentionally leave a sheath that almost certainly had his DNA on it. However, he had not taken a grad course in forensic anthropology (which studies use points on items and also studies the genes and their various methods of extraction and reconstruction). DeSales had one master's level course in that subject, but we don't know if he took it - he was not on that particular track according to what was announced at graduation. One could easily take 9 courses in related topics (including the study of metal objects as a forensic category).

IMO.
Agreed, I think BK probably just screwed up, plain and simple. And they do. Rader did as well, he left DNA at his first CS. LE still didn't get him, but the fact remains, BTK also bungled things at his first CS. By the time Rader sent LE a floppy disk that they traced back to him, I guess DNA research had improved significantly, and they matched the DNA from that first CS to BTK, and it was curtains for him. I can't get inside BK's head and know for certain, and he's so twisted, agreed you could never really know one way or the other. But which would BK enjoy more, a successful (in his mind, obviously) finish to his horrifying crimes, or a protracted legal battle that basically could end his life? Totally agreed it's something of a perverse coin toss on this, but I think he'd probably prefer to have gotten away with it. BK seems to like to "psych people out" so to speak. He's now probably enjoying the idea that people believe he left it there on purpose, always in control of his fate. Maybe, but I doubt it. MOO, he screwed up. But who knows.
 
BK, IMO, has all the markings of a serial killer. And if not for advances in DNA and the advent of genetic genealogy, he might have become one.

TedBundy, he'd have been done in one, too, if science was ready for him.

JMO
 
I just want to add that after 40 years of interviewing criminals (in jails, prisons and state hospitals for the mentally insane) that we can never underestimate the extreme deviance of some people's minds.

There are often fixed delusions. Personality disorders. Memory problems that either mimic dementia or are disassociative (BK mentions two disassociative symptoms in his TapATalk posts).

Fear of getting caught is most prominent within certain personality disorders. The number of unfathomable decisions made by this group of people has always floored me, intrigued me. Serial rapists who, remanded to a state hospital for the criminally insane, still think that some or most of what they did was "normal." And indeed, in my years of research since then, it's true that many non-criminal men feel entitled to ignore "no" from a woman.

Did BK fear getting caught? I'm on the fence. He has had a certain kind of self-loathing since his teens. He might not think he's fit for this world. He may have wanted to accomplish a certain experience after moving to Pullman, and it evolved into this. IMO, rage was involved.

But controlled and depersonalized rage. And possibly a desire to die/be contained; to kill/to avenge life's pointlessness.

IMO.

Just Yowza. Thank you for your input, diligence, and 40 years of experience..

There are just no words sometimes. JMOO
 
BK, IMO, has all the markings of a serial killer. And if not for advances in DNA and the advent of genetic genealogy, he might have become one.

TedBundy, he'd have been done in one, too, if science was ready for him.

JMO

Your mention of Bundy made me think of something...

While BK might have the psychology to become a SK, there's one thing that Bundy had that BK doesn't--the ability to charm. In addition to skill and luck, one thing that Bundy had that allowed him to go on as long as he did was his people "skills"--his ability to create favorable impressions in the people around him. The ability to form relationships with others as protective covering (his long term girlfriend, author Ann Rule who he worked a suicide hotline with, different people he worked with in the Republican Party, and at some of his attempts at college (to varying levels of success). He could kill and then go back to "normal world" and go to work/volunteer/have a girlfriend.

Same with Dennis Rader/BTK. After he started killing, he was going to college, graduated, had kids, held multiple jobs. He swung easily back and forth between his two lives.

BK lacks that ability. We already know he lost his TA position due to his inability to work with his mentor professor and the students. We know he stuck out in the grad program. No reports of girlfriends. We don't know much about his behavior at school in Nov and the beginning of Dec before he went home for break, but honestly with all the stress that everyone is under at that time of year with finals, most people aren't going to notice much. Not to mention a lot of people are acting weird during finals.

BK didn't have the ability to create and maintain that kind of "protective coloration" that Bundy and BTK did.

If he hadn't been caught when he was, what do you imagine his spring semester would have looked like? Could he have pulled off "normal" behavior (or at least "normal" for pre-kill BK) in January? Personally I doubt it. Could he have gotten away with maybe one more kill? Sure. But pretty soon his increasingly odd behavior would have started getting more noticed by others, probably leading to tips or even creating other huge issues in his life that would have brought him to LE attention.
 
Your mention of Bundy made me think of something...

While BK might have the psychology to become a SK, there's one thing that Bundy had that BK doesn't--the ability to charm. In addition to skill and luck, one thing that Bundy had that allowed him to go on as long as he did was his people "skills"--his ability to create favorable impressions in the people around him. The ability to form relationships with others as protective covering (his long term girlfriend, author Ann Rule who he worked a suicide hotline with, different people he worked with in the Republican Party, and at some of his attempts at college (to varying levels of success). He could kill and then go back to "normal world" and go to work/volunteer/have a girlfriend.

Same with Dennis Rader/BTK. After he started killing, he was going to college, graduated, had kids, held multiple jobs. He swung easily back and forth between his two lives.

BK lacks that ability. We already know he lost his TA position due to his inability to work with his mentor professor and the students. We know he stuck out in the grad program. No reports of girlfriends. We don't know much about his behavior at school in Nov and the beginning of Dec before he went home for break, but honestly with all the stress that everyone is under at that time of year with finals, most people aren't going to notice much. Not to mention a lot of people are acting weird during finals.

BK didn't have the ability to create and maintain that kind of "protective coloration" that Bundy and BTK did.

If he hadn't been caught when he was, what do you imagine his spring semester would have looked like? Could he have pulled off "normal" behavior (or at least "normal" for pre-kill BK) in January? Personally I doubt it. Could he have gotten away with maybe one more kill? Sure. But pretty soon his increasingly odd behavior would have started getting more noticed by others, probably leading to tips or even creating other huge issues in his life that would have brought him to LE attention.

His spring semester would have been in Pennsylvania living with his parents. He was fired from his teaching position.

 
Your mention of Bundy made me think of something...

While BK might have the psychology to become a SK, there's one thing that Bundy had that BK doesn't--the ability to charm. In addition to skill and luck, one thing that Bundy had that allowed him to go on as long as he did was his people "skills"--his ability to create favorable impressions in the people around him. The ability to form relationships with others as protective covering (his long term girlfriend, author Ann Rule who he worked a suicide hotline with, different people he worked with in the Republican Party, and at some of his attempts at college (to varying levels of success). He could kill and then go back to "normal world" and go to work/volunteer/have a girlfriend.

Same with Dennis Rader/BTK. After he started killing, he was going to college, graduated, had kids, held multiple jobs. He swung easily back and forth between his two lives.

BK lacks that ability. We already know he lost his TA position due to his inability to work with his mentor professor and the students. We know he stuck out in the grad program. No reports of girlfriends. We don't know much about his behavior at school in Nov and the beginning of Dec before he went home for break, but honestly with all the stress that everyone is under at that time of year with finals, most people aren't going to notice much. Not to mention a lot of people are acting weird during finals.

BK didn't have the ability to create and maintain that kind of "protective coloration" that Bundy and BTK did.

If he hadn't been caught when he was, what do you imagine his spring semester would have looked like? Could he have pulled off "normal" behavior (or at least "normal" for pre-kill BK) in January? Personally I doubt it. Could he have gotten away with maybe one more kill? Sure. But pretty soon his increasingly odd behavior would have started getting more noticed by others, probably leading to tips or even creating other huge issues in his life that would have brought him to LE attention.

All so true. Bundy's "charm", BTK's camouflage (enmeshed in society)...

In some ways, it's striking that BK made it as far as he did. He was maybe propelled forward by Covid which allowed him to advance without his peopling challenges gaining notice. Perhaps he had some charm behind the screen mask. He managed, IIRC, ro get his Masters without really completing his thesis/experiment.

While BK seems to be lacking in relationships of his own making, he did still enjoy the comfort/dynamic of his family of origin. At 28, I'm not sure how much longer that would hold if he boomeranged between the next job, firing, moving back home, next job, etc. His family must have been so relieved when he seemed to be on, not just an acceptable track, but an esteemed one -- PhD student, TA with a Master's. But all that, not unlike Bundy's arm in a fake cast, was a cover what BK really is.

JMO
 
BK, IMO, has all the markings of a serial killer. And if not for advances in DNA and the advent of genetic genealogy, he might have become one.

TedBundy, he'd have been done in one, too, if science was ready for him.

JMO

Without the DNA, I don't think LE would have had near enough evidence to arrest BK. And this might have just become his first set of murders. No telling how many people's lives they may have saved figuring out who it was an arresting him for this horrible crime.
 
MOO One reason is I think BK had more than enough preparation for a rape in a party house.
The max subpoenas for the area used for tracking his phone would be unavailable to LE for a rape.
I think it was a rape with a knife for compliance and it all went sideways when the target had a friend with her. He then found he was good at murder and kept doing it.
Regarding DM.
Immediately before passing by DMs door he fully face the Good Times neon sign in the livingroom, meaning he lost his acute night vision for a few seconds and MOO missed the slightly larger black line of DMs door being open a crack to see.
Your theory of the murders is a good one, as is the idea that he wanted to kill them, and so he did it. I'm sure I'm not alone in wondering whether one of these, or something entirely different, turns out to be the state's theory of the case. Or whether they opt to just present proof that he did it and go with no one knows why he did it.
 
Good. Then he can pinpoint where BK discarded his weapon.
Depending on what he finds, that is a possibility. Sy Ray has worked on thousands of cases with LE and has an excellent success rate. I really am interested in Sy Ray's findings, no matter what they are. At least, Sy Ray's findings will be far more scientific and convincing than the little bit of evidence we know about so far.
 
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