6-year-old boy suspended from school for kissing student on the cheek

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Here is an information sheet on talking to a child about sexual harassment:

http://www.co.ramsey.mn.us/NR/rdonlyres/CFB38D8C-0BC9-4080-AA1B-D3DF7025D015/1464/talk_about_sexual_har_502.pdf

An important point is made:

Explain that the person who receives the attention always gets to decide how that feels.
If any actions or words makes him or her feel uncomfortable or bad and is gender based (sexual in nature or makes them feel bad about being a boy or a girl), it is sexual harassment.

The girl’s mother is a math teacher in that school system and I give her a lot of credit for standing up for her daughter in the face of persistent unwanted touching.

Another boy had been bothering her also but when punished he stopped.

I find it odd that there is more upset over the term than the disruption of a safe, unthreatening learning atmosphere for the girl.

How can subsequent teachers evaluate this boy’s behavior if common vernacular is not utilized in the report?

Isn’t that why information is collected in the child’s portfolio?

It’s not like employers or the general public will see that it is for personnel to evaluate, discipline or reward the student.

just imo
 
I haven't seen any one ridiculing the little girl. She has a right to feel the way she does.

I teach my kids, if you are doing anything to someone else or their personal space the moment they say stop/no/quit etc you stop b/c its their body and personal space. My 6 yr old is still learning this, its something that comes with growing up. He does get in trouble if he does not stop but his punishment is appropriate and not labeled. The label of sexual harassment is what people take issue with. Annoying yes harassment just seems like to strong of a word to use here. He is still learning to deal with others and knowing about personal space. The adults involved are messing up a learning situation once again. If his mom is not teaching him about personal space then she is included in screwing up this learning situation.

A boy hugged and kissed my son at school. My son said he told the boy you hug and release like this... okay. The boy started hug and releasing how my son showed him. The teacher wrote a note to the other mom and I to let us know but said the boys handled it great. She said she was about to step in b/c she noticed 2 boys pushing away from him after a few seconds of the hug but she didn't have to b/c my son said ( this is the quote she wrote in the note) "dude like this.. hug and release not hug and hug next time okay?". They are in Kindergarten. When I asked my son all he said was "the hug was kind of long..... awkward.... but he is my bud gotta love him and all his crazy. I showed him hug and release."

There is plenty of criticism and ridicule towards her mother. Why? Why is there so much more concern and sympathy for some annoying kid who can't keep his hands to himself (and is only going to get worst as he gets older) than there is for this little girl?
 
He has not been registered as a sex offender. If he punched a kid he would not be "labeled" a violent criminal and if he stole from the teacher's desk he would not be brought before the courts for grand larceny. He would have a few boxes on the form checked and that's it.

On the form- which the schools do not write- they need to document the offense to explain the consequence. Having a suspension under his belt may well qualify him for help that he needs that he otherwise wouldn't be entitled to. If he doesn't need any, this will hopefully get it across to his parents. He can't kiss the girls when they don't want that, or in school at all, really, no matter how cute his parents think it is.

In no way has this kid been labeled a predator.

It's not the 6 year old that needs the "help" IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
 
Does anyone really think that a six year old (unless they have some type of disability) is not old enough to understand, "She doesn't want you to kiss her or touch her?" or, "We have a rule here at school, keep your hands to yourself."

There are rules in preschool. Why are these particular rules so hard to fathom?

Parents all over the world use time outs and other behavior modification techniques to achieve the type of behavior they want.

I really don't get why this should be pooh-poohed away, especially if the other child didn't welcome the attention. That IS being harassing, no matter what age you are.
 
Sadly, this little girl is learning a lesson at an early age: Reject a boy, and you will face criticism and ridicule for it. A boy who makes unwanted "advances" on a girl is "cute" and if she doesn't like it, she's uptight. After all, he was just kissing her hand...that's so "adorable" and "romantic"...and how dare she (and her mother) not like it!

You also have to love how the media is framing it like ~Oh this poor (annoying) boy...he just had a little crush, and then the mean girl, mother, teachers (evil women) put a stop to it!". Why don't they talk about the girl's side? About how she had to deal with him constantly harassing her?

And of course the online comments are all blaming the Mom, because she's [insert insult here] for not allowing some sweet little romantic to bother her daughter.

I am just glad that someone out there is acting in the interest of the VICTIM for once. Can we please stop this "boys will boys" mentality?

I've read every post...i don't see that "boys will be boys" mentality anywhere.

IMO the problem is they are children and need to be taught not punished. Period.
Children who aren't potty trained shouldn't be punished for not mastering the skill yet. Neither should this child. I'm sure his affection is a big new feeling for him and he needs to learn what's acceptable behavior. Just as the little girl needs to be taught and given the verbiage and tools to handle any incidents in the future by this boy or any other.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
 
The more I think about it, The more I am most annoyed at this boys mother. She should NEVER have released any of this to the press. This kid is forever labeled by this. What that will do to him, we will never know. We know that it did not help hiccup girl any.

I think that what bothers me most is that she used her child to get attention. Deal with it in school, get a lawyer whatever but don't put your kid on the news. JMTC
 
I've read every post...i don't see that "boys will be boys" mentality anywhere.

IMO the problem is they are children and need to be taught not punished. Period.
Children who aren't potty trained shouldn't be punished for not mastering the skill yet. Neither should this child. I'm sure his affection is a big new feeling for him and he needs to learn what's acceptable behavior. Just as the little girl needs to be taught and given the verbiage and tools to handle any incidents in the future by this boy or any other.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

I agree they need to be taught. But I also think that part of teaching them right from wrong is consequences of some sort (age appropriate, of course). These consequences (or punishment) could take the form of losing a treat, staying indoors for part of recess, etc. That, from what I've seen, anyway, makes more of an impact in children, than trying to reason with them. You can certainly explain to them why something should or shouldn't be done, but following that with consequences for good or bad modeling seems to work best.
 
Does anyone really think that a six year old (unless they have some type of disability) is not old enough to understand, "She doesn't want you to kiss her or touch her?" or, "We have a rule here at school, keep your hands to yourself."

There are rules in preschool. Why are these particular rules so hard to fathom?

Parents all over the world use time outs and other behavior modification techniques to achieve the type of behavior they want.

I really don't get why this should be pooh-poohed away, especially if the other child didn't welcome the attention. That IS being harassing, no matter what age you are.

I haven't seen anyone say it should be poo pooed either.

The issue was... it was indeed labeled as sexual harassment and he was suspended for something that could have been dealt with with a time out!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
 
I haven't seen anyone say it should be poo pooed either.

The issue was... it was indeed labeled as sexual harassment and he was suspended for something that could have been dealt with with a time out!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

And I said, from the very beginning, that this should never have been labeled sexual harassment. But to go to the other extreme and say, "oh, that's just what little boys do to little girls!", might have been true 40 years ago, but not in today's world. This whole case is proof of that.
 
And I said, from the very beginning, that this should never have been labeled sexual harassment. But to go to the other extreme and say, "oh, that's just what little boys do to little girls!", might have been true 40 years ago, but not in today's world. This whole case is proof of that.

No one went the other extreme that I saw.

What was said ....is that it is a normal developmental behavior. it happens, there is absolutely nothing about it that is abnormal. Suspending him over it is the problem, labeling it was a problem.
It was the adults that are the problem and handled it poorly.
I'm thrilled the boys mother brought this to the attention of the media! I like to know just how ridiculous and asinine the public school system is becoming. Don't you think people have a right to know when these types of decisions are made? This is our tax dollars we are talking about...this could be one of our children.... the boy or the girl. I wouldn't be too pleased if I was the parent of either one.
That last part wasn't directed to you..*



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
 
The fact that it happened before and wasn't getting resolved is an indicator that they tried other things. He's not getting much educational time while kissing girls and it disrupts the whole class. He'd get more time by being suspended once and behaving better from that point on.

If it were a first offense, I'd say the school was stupid but the parents seem to think this is cuuuuuuuuute and so I'm guessing the school is actually limited in options.
 
I haven't seen anyone say it should be poo pooed either.

The issue was... it was indeed labeled as sexual harassment and he was suspended for something that could have been dealt with with a time out!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

I guess we see the issue differently. You see it as normal behavior that was made to look like abnormal behavior (at least, I think that's what you think), and I see it as a child being unwilling to follow basic directions who was punished for his unwillingness to follow the directions.

I think that the school didn't have any choice in putting these policies in place (calling it sexual harassment was inappropriate) -- they have their collective backs up against the wall, due to parents who take things to the extreme. I see it as the school trying to cover their butt.
 
I do believe it has more to do with the boy not being willing to follow directions. I'd be interested in his other 'behavioral' things. Does he get out of his seat a lot? Talk all through class? Get in trouble for other things? I would venture a guess that he doesn't follow directions very well.
 
Thinking about what I would have said to my son at 6, or even now, if he had been punished for innocently kissing a girl on the hand?

If you want to be happy, stay away from her and others like her, starting now and for the rest of your life.

jmo
 
In seeing some more reports today, I think there is more to this. I think this is a child that has been in trouble for bothering this girl and has been told to stop touching her. I think he was suspended because he had been repeatedly told to leave her alone and would not stop.

I don't think this is about the hand kissing at all.

I don't agree with the label of sexual harassment but I think there is more to the story.

"District superintendent Robin Gooldy told The Associated Press on Tuesday the boy was suspended because of a policy against unwanted touching.

"The focus needs to be on his behavior. We usually try to get the student to stop, but if it continues, we need to take action and it sometimes rises to the level of suspension," he said."

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/national_world&id=9355577

I am not saying I agree with the suspension for just hand kissing but in more than one report it seems like there is more to this. That he has been in trouble before and told to leave the little girl alone.

I also believe that more is going on. If this was truly sexual acting out, then CPS should have been called in on suspicion that the little boy was being abused. Surely Supt. Gooldy is a mandated reporter of child abuse and not doing so would make him derelict in his duties, and wouldn't that be bending rules a great deal more serious than hand kissing?

I also think the label of sexual harassment is inappropriate. But Gooldy chose to use it because he, an adult male, is accusing a child barely out of toddlerhood of an adult crime. And he is using the punishment of suspension, once reserved for outright vandalism and school yard fighting or bringing switchblades and guns to class, to correct a behaviour which he perceives as threatening. IMHO, however, the use of such an emotionally loaded label is less about the facts of the incident--unwanted touching-- <modsnip>

Actually, I think that the behaviour that bothered Gooldy so much was not sexual aggression but the much more serious crime of disobedience. That six year old boy, because he was six and was being funny or playful or mischievous (and hopefully not because he was being abused) disobeyed a rule so he must be dealt with. He is a trouble maker who is is not blindly obeying rules so he must be kept away from the good children who seem to do exactly what they are told. This is much more about authorities using a fascistic approach in dealing with young minds, bending them to the will of authority than concern about unwanted displays of affection. It seems that in his district minor infractions must be dealt with in a way to frighten all the other children into accepting and following whatever rules will be instituted next.

Sadly, there is, potentially, very much more going on than hand kissing or keeping order in schools. There is that vast, hungry maw of the for-profit prison system to be filled. How much has its very existence influenced people to accept out of proportion punishments for minor incidents involving children? How close are the parents and authorities to agreeing that the slightest infractions (lateness, truancy), no matter the context, are justifiable reasons for imprisonment? Black and white rules don't really exist. There's always someone who is bigger, or louder, or less popular, or more sensitive, something that will make them more likely to be vulnerable targets and, therefore, to be punished as examples to the rest of the student body. And then repeatedly hurt by that student body because they have been targeted by authorities. Superintendent Gooldy has implied that this six year old has been engaging in an unacceptable behaviour that has escalated over time (again the implication is that it was an extended period of time) to the level that he was forced by the seriousness of the child's inability to follow his orders to suspend that child. So, it seems to me that this bureaucrat's sensibilities were pricked when he felt he'd been flagrantly disobeyed by a six year old. How far removed is this man from understanding children? Clearly he understands that he's the one giving the orders and those incalcitrant six year olds must obey without question. Or else. I wonder how long Gooldy's label of sexual harassment will appear on that little boy's school record, and beyond. How many other children have been treated like mini-criminals in Gooldy's district with his active co-operation? How far away would he send those who broke his rules? To prison?

Unlikely? Ask the 4,000 child victims of "Kids for Cash" Mark Ciavarella whose sentences have been overturned by the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania. I'm pretty sure that school authorities vigorously presented evidence in every one of those cases. And I'll bet that they referred to "black and white" rules to prove they were justified in doing so even as they were helping Ciavarella earn over a million dollars in kick-backs from the prison-for-profit system. And I'm sure they'd do the same thing today.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/soci...la-sentenced-28-years-prison-selling-children

http://variety.com/2013/film/reviews/kids-for-cash-review-1200911791/

I think Supt. Gooldy and others like him have the best interests of the school system rather than the best interests of the child in mind when they make decisions like this. A school is not a military unit composed of adults who have pledged obedience to their superior officers. A school is not a convent or a monastery with unquestioning obedience as a religious commitment. It's a place where children can grow with the guidance of reasonable rules with reasonable consequences put in place for the physical, emotional, and psychological safety of the growing children who study within it. Absolutely children need the consistency of rules which are enforced equally on all the students, but those rules need to be stated within the framework of a child's experience. The, probably, unintended consequences of this suspension may be far darker and more damaging than it appears on first glance.
 
I also believe that more is going on. If this was truly sexual acting out, then CPS should have been called in on suspicion that the little boy was being abused. Surely Supt. Gooldy is a mandated reporter of child abuse and not doing so would make him derelict in his duties, and wouldn't that be bending rules a great deal more serious than hand kissing?

I also think the label of sexual harassment is inappropriate. But Gooldy chose to use it because he, an adult male, is accusing a child barely out of toddlerhood of an adult crime. And he is using the punishment of suspension, once reserved for outright vandalism and school yard fighting or bringing switchblades and guns to class, to correct a behaviour which he perceives as threatening. IMHO, however, the use of such an emotionally loaded label is less about the facts of the incident--<modsnip>

Actually, I think that the behaviour that bothered Gooldy so much was not sexual aggression but the much more serious crime of disobedience. That six year old boy, because he was six and was being funny or playful or mischievous (and hopefully not because he was being abused) disobeyed a rule so he must be dealt with. He is a trouble maker who is is not blindly obeying rules so he must be kept away from the good children who seem to do exactly what they are told. This is much more about authorities using a fascistic approach in dealing with young minds, bending them to the will of authority than concern about unwanted displays of affection. It seems that in his district minor infractions must be dealt with in a way to frighten all the other children into accepting and following whatever rules will be instituted next.

Sadly, there is, potentially, very much more going on than hand kissing or keeping order in schools. There is that vast, hungry maw of the for-profit prison system to be filled. How much has its very existence influenced people to accept out of proportion punishments for minor incidents involving children? How close are the parents and authorities to agreeing that the slightest infractions (lateness, truancy), no matter the context, are justifiable reasons for imprisonment? Black and white rules don't really exist. There's always someone who is bigger, or louder, or less popular, or more sensitive, something that will make them more likely to be vulnerable targets and, therefore, to be punished as examples to the rest of the student body. And then repeatedly hurt by that student body because they have been targeted by authorities. Superintendent Gooldy has implied that this six year old has been engaging in an unacceptable behaviour that has escalated over time (again the implication is that it was an extended period of time) to the level that he was forced by the seriousness of the child's inability to follow his orders to suspend that child. So, it seems to me that this bureaucrat's sensibilities were pricked when he felt he'd been flagrantly disobeyed by a six year old. How far removed is this man from understanding children? Clearly he understands that he's the one giving the orders and those incalcitrant six year olds must obey without question. Or else. I wonder how long Gooldy's label of sexual harassment will appear on that little boy's school record, and beyond. How many other children have been treated like mini-criminals in Gooldy's district with his active co-operation? How far away would he send those who broke his rules? To prison?

Unlikely? Ask the 4,000 child victims of "Kids for Cash" Mark Ciavarella whose sentences have been overturned by the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania. I'm pretty sure that school authorities vigorously presented evidence in every one of those cases. And I'll bet that they referred to "black and white" rules to prove they were justified in doing so even as they were helping Ciavarella earn over a million dollars in kick-backs from the prison-for-profit system. And I'm sure they'd do the same thing today.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/soci...la-sentenced-28-years-prison-selling-children

http://variety.com/2013/film/reviews/kids-for-cash-review-1200911791/

I think Supt. Gooldy and others like him have the best interests of the school system rather than the best interests of the child in mind when they make decisions like this. A school is not a military unit composed of adults who have pledged obedience to their superior officers. A school is not a convent or a monastery with unquestioning obedience as a religious commitment. It's a place where children can grow with the guidance of reasonable rules with reasonable consequences put in place for the physical, emotional, and psychological safety of the growing children who study within it. Absolutely children need the consistency of rules which are enforced equally on all the students, but those rules need to be stated within the framework of a child's experience. The, probably, unintended consequences of this suspension may be far darker and more damaging than it appears on first glance.


An absolutely brilliant post! Thanks wasn't enough...it was a real pleasure to read... Thank you thank you thank you
 
Thinking about what I would have said to my son at 6, or even now, if he had been punished for innocently kissing a girl on the hand?

If you want to be happy, stay away from her and others like her, starting now and for the rest of your life.

jmo

What do you mean "others like her"? Girls who reject ~nice~ guys and don't appreciate their unwanted "advances?" I'm not sure what the 6-year-old girl did wrong here, or why she's being made out to be someone who needs to be avoided.
 
Rules, whatever they may be, need to be developmentally appropriate. Just to illustrate my point. . .if there was a rule on an airplane that you couldn't yell or cry loudly, it would be foolish to expect babies to be able to follow that rule.

Six year olds are not miniature adults, and the expectation that they would be able to comprehend, heck, even have enough self awareness to understand and control their own behavior with regards to some sexual harassment policy written out by the district legal team is not rational.

MOO. . .it is time to get the politicians and lawyers out of education and bring back the child psychologists, and hopefully some common sense too.

I don't believe this boy is a possible abuse victim. He's quite normal. We know an awful lot about six year olds. We know that around three years old children begin to become aware of their gender. At six, they are attempting to learn what that means, gender roles, etc. It is quite normal for six year olds to play house, play wedding, even innocent doctor. It is NORMAL behavior for a six year old.

I would expect a school in the business of educating youngsters to understand these things. If they would take the lawyer perspective out of it, and instead deal with the problem from a psychological perspective, they could simply tell the little boy that this girl is no longer his gf (if the attention is unwanted.) and that men/boys don't get to kiss women/girls who don't want to be their girlfriends. The little boy doesn't have to be labeled a sexual harasser, he doesn't have to be suspended and miss school, and he doesn't have to be taught that he is "bad" for doing something that is quite normal and appropriate for his age and developmental stage.

I agree with this completely, and you said it way better than I could.

What the heck is a "no touch" rule? If one child hands another child a pencil and their hands touch, do they get suspended? Two little kids playing on a playground sometimes will hold hands or even hug each other. Is that not allowed either?

Human touch is a nature human need. And 6 year olds, while they are trying to learn to be independent are still very much in need of touching, cuddling, and otherwise being affectionate. Yes they need to learn how to do it appropriately at school, but to suspend them if they reach out to another child?

Why don't they build individual cubes for the kids, and schedule their playground time so they are out in their section of the playground one at a time so that they don't accidently touch each other? Yes that sounds outrageously extreme, but so does trying to teach 6 years not to touch.
 
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